[No Offseason Podcast] Is the WNBA Ready for Real Criticism?

https://youtu.be/_alwOfnuYOU?si=rgqUyi3q1MW5kLH9

On a thread yesterday, multiple ppl talked about this episode of an awesome podcast where they dove into this topic from three different perspectives where all the hosts provided their unique interpretations of these issues in very candid and helpful ways. I found it truly riveting and felt it did justice to all parties in tackling a lot of multi-layered talking points.

Also found Layshia Clarendon’s input on these matters particularly poignant and powerful considering she is the only ex-player, and now works in media. For those who dont know, she was also the first openly non-binary WNBA player. I found her takes to be extremely well-spoken yet raw, and almost would even suggest just skipping forward to any time she speaks lol. Not that Annie or Zena didnt make great points either, just the perspective from an ex-player is that much more valuable imo.

Quite frankly, all three mentioned a lot of things that I’ve found myself thinking as I’ve been trying to navigate these spaces and try to figure out “Where do we go from here? What is best for the growth of the game?” where tbh it felt validating to hear some similar nuanced takes whereas I’ve seen some fans shut down conversation and only shouting the surface level dynamics that we’re all aware of, as a trump card essentially.

I think this is almost a must-watch, but will try to point out some quotes I found interesting with time stamps:

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• ~27:00- The conversation kicks off with screenshots of a Twitter exchange where Dawn Staley calls out a Valks sideline reporter for being biased for mentioning that Kate Martin is popular so it’s surprising she was cut essentially, and mentioning Laeticia Amihere by name (along with Kaitlyn Chen).

This was a mild exchange imo, and was just Dawn being the ride-or-die that she is for her players. In my most charitable interpretation of her side, she was probably trying to shield Amihere from the type of fans that get super upset of Martin being cut and might overly critique the other bubble players who made the team over her.

• ~37:40- I think the bigger point about this little exchange moment was what Zena pointed out… **“People dont read!”** so she says that it’s almost dangerous for a Dawn to do something like that because then a bunch of fans on SM that dont read and dont try to get further context, will just jump on the bandwagon and try to badger ppl on non-issues because they feel like they’re right bc Dawn Staley already said it.

• ~45:00- Annie: “The best way I can ‘uplift’ this league is by covering this league the same way I would cover anything else, the good and the bad, the positive and the ugly. Not shy away from anything that could necessarily bring a negative scope to a player, a team, the league because it’s not my job to protect. It’s my job to document *the truth*. And not everybody is going to like the truth.”

• ~54:25 Layshia: “It’s important because… I almost feel like people need a degree in Sociology to cover the WNBA... People dont understand, you need to understand stereotype threat with our league and this is the hard part with the context. You are covering a league full of black women and queer people… In those ways it’s not as simple as ‘take the bubble wrap off’ right? It’s like people who’ve been through hella trauma, they’re not just armored up for no reason.”

• ~58:00 Layshia after explaining a story about how she had to talk to a friend who was a Warriors beat writer about cooling his jets on why media isnt critical in the WNBA: “…I think that was back in 2021. I We’ve grown to a place now where we’re seeing how good our league is, and I think this is the growing pains now where we’re at a point where the reason we’re having this conversation is because we want fans to understand, like I *really truly* want them to understand, because like I get it where we’ve come from and why we have armor and almost like be able to take a deep breath and say ‘okay, look at how far we’ve come…”

• ~1:01:00- Zena: “I know ppl are gonna be like ‘Why is she talking about the MNBA?’ It’s because I started covering the MNBA, my reporting started on the NBA side… There are things where Im hearing folks talk about so & so and so & so dont get along, they got beef, they got problems. Think about the Kevin Durant retweet situation in Houston. That was covered with depth! People are still trying to figure out what was happening, right? But it feels like a reporter trying to figure out what’s happening in a locker room would be critiqued as ‘you’re being messy and you’re not being a reporter’ How would you approach this conversation?” (to Annie, who’s answer was poignant and informative)

• ~1:05:00- Annie: “…and the last thing I’ll say about this Layshia is, and you can speak to this too, (Layshia: ‘Ohh im about to’) there is not a single team in this league that does not deal with locker room issues. This is a commonplace, normal thing on every single team. Every single team deals with it; it affects teams differently… There is messiness that exists in every team, **but when there’s not a beat reporter there to cover it, it goes unreported.**

Layshia: “Do you know the amount of times when I played that we said, THANK GOD we dont have media coverage? Because stuff was happening! This is stuff that players would actually say, like I would be watching ESPN or something and I would know what was going on in locker rooms and teams and I’d be like oooo the fact that that’s not covered. 1) I’d be like ‘that’s crazy that’s not covered and then 2) I’d be like omg thank God we dont have national media coverage because I would’ve because I would’ve been watching this story on TV right now again and again and again because of the coverage, which should be happening, right? But now we’re here! Where we have the coverage.”

• ~1:07:00 Layshia: “This is like the growing pains to me of the W… it’s getting to the point where we’ve blown up, we’re in the big leagues now. Let’s all look around and be like ‘we’ve got our big girl pants on’ we are here we’ve got a legitimate CBA. We have national media coverage. And with that, including the Dawn tweet, are growing pains… and I think to speak more directly to Chicago is like, **it wasnt cool that Angel Reese talked about her players out loud! Like that sh-t wasnt cool, she broke the code!”

• ~1:23:30-1:25:30- Annie talks about her understanding of the fact that she’s a white woman speaking on this league so she has to constantly self-evaluate even when it’s uncomfortable, but at the same time wont shy away from covering the league critically. She promises to be accepting of the criticism that comes her way, though she “may go back and forth with you online! I may have some fun with it!” among other things as she says she’s rambling. She also says she wants you to know that it is okay if you hate her😂

• ~1:25:30- Zena speaking on INTENT (and continues later on fans understanding different media titles’ roles)!!!! She prods fans to have some media literacy essentially and understand what the author/mediums intent is and what their role is.

• 1:27:00- Zena tells a story about a recent situation where she made a light reference to Penny Taylor and DT in reference to the Paige/Azzi situation… someone on Twitter (yes, I know) tagged her and said “Zena you dumb B*tch. Watch your mouth when you talk about Penny Taylor” in all caps. She mentions that in her time speaking on the NBA, “NO ONE on that side has ever called me a dumb b*tch.”

Now Twitter is a cesspool, and this sub is much better moderated (thank you m0ds🫡), but I have seen this dynamic as well in the last few years where there seems to be more of a hair-trigger with fans when they dont like a newer fans opinion, or a newer fan makes an honest mistake, or just generally being accusatory and standoffish towards legit, common sports takes/critiques.

This particular part of things worries me from a standpoint of growth of the game in the long run, where maybe newer fans may get “scared off” because they get chewed out for little petty shit imo. Im not talking about the inflammatory CC-troll type of new fans, Im talking about someone making a relatively mundane comment or having an actual basketball critique and then after they get chewed out, I’ve literally seen them write some form of this sentiment “Geez why are you all like this? I wont be back. You guys make it really hard to get into the sport.”

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Sheesh, that was a lot lol. But anyways, yeah I thought this episode and the space that they all allowed each other to speak and the way Zena weaves back and forth thru topics to be masterful.

Wondering if any parts of this convo resonates with others on here, how do you feel about the way WNBA discourse should move going forward?

u/Ingramistheman — 6 days ago

▲ 69 r/wnba

BC on Leadership Opportunity, SAB on Two-Way Trust & Supportive Teammates

• A lot of ppl on here doubted Portland giving Bridget $1M, but it was clear that they liked what they saw of her overseas and for Team Canada both in her game and her intangibles. BC mentions having a leadership role in her national team being a factor in her feeling ready to take a step up in that regard in the W.

• SAB responds to a question about gameplan discipline with how collaborative and communicative the entire team is and how the players feel comfortable trusting Coach Sarama because they know he has so much trust in them.

• Reporter points out that SAB will forever be a part or Portland Fire lore and she responds with remarks about how together the team is and how much they have each other’s backs.

u/Ingramistheman — 8 days ago

▲ 21 r/wnba

After a whirlwind of an offseason, then training camp & preseason flying by, we will sadly be starved of Portland Fire sicko basketball until next Sat. 😂.

I’ve been really keeping tabs on them mostly because of their “controversial” coaching hire, 30 y/o Alex Sarama, so I just wanted to jot some notes down and link some coach/player interviews, practice clips, articles, etc. to help ppl understand what’s going over there in The Fire Pit.

First, some of the Fun Stuff😁:

There’s a lot that goes into his methodologies that you can read about, but I just wanted to point out some of the “wacky”, fun activities that I’ve seen them post on Instagram like this or playing Spikeball. Activities like those serve a purpose in helping athletes expand their “movement library” and also drives up the player engagement and breaks up the monotony of practice routines. You see a lot of the players smiling, laughing, bonding which is such a crucial thing to me.

There’s not a ton of practice footage, but even something like what assistant coach Brittni Donaldson is presumably demonstrating at the beginning of that reel with “balance shooting” drills is an example of Differential Learning which is adjacent to the CLA as well.

Here’s a few seconds of Coach Sarama coaching in practice just so ppl can hear & see what that’s like. A note on something there as well “Off the dribble AND catch, mix it up.” is another seemingly innocuous piece, but is part of the “evidence-based” methods (if you’re interested, look up variable practice vs block practice).

Coach Interviews + Quotes:

Before even diving into the content of what was said, I think it’s important to point out the level of intentionality and detail that Coach Sarama seems to speak with and how he articulates his vision are on an entirely different level than Chris Koclanes which I’ve heard many ppl try to lump him in with simply because of demographics.

• SEA post game presser: https://youtu.be/GVdKQvbjxx4?si=TSPt9rk8_roF-lby

Lots of encouraging things to say despite a loss and taking an analytical approach to things. Also shouts out the rest of the entire coaching staff which I think is a sign of good leadership. He also notes that walking into the locker room at halftime and hearing players “having some really good discussions using our terminology and language.”

• Post-Practice availability after SEA game: https://youtu.be/lfo0G-jLJ-E?si=VjjYTiD5fbmYzBrE

Some interesting notes about their style of defense and the unique personnel around the 2:00-2:30 mark. At 3:30 he makes a point about shot selection/shot distance distribution and says that a 26% mid range attempt rate would have been the lowest in the W across an entire season which I found interesting.

Also, an interesting answer about Bridget Carleton’s role:

>Q: Can you share some of the conversations you’ve had with Bridget, the leadership?

>A: Yeah so firstly, I think it’s I don’t want to put a tag on her as far as what level she needs to get to this year… I don’t want her to have the pressure you know that comes from saying, “Oh, I want to get you to here.”…

>She can fit into any team and make any team player. And I think even more-so, our Principles of Play being so team-focused, I think she’s gonna fit in so well to the offense and naturally her usage is gonna increase, but just naturally as opposed to being like “Alright we’re gonna run plays for Bridget.”

• LAS post-game presser: https://youtu.be/RIlsQe-qXWY?si=3MsA3NcjUjM9oplF

Some interesting remarks in there as well:

>A lot of coaches they always say “Take care of the ball.” and that’s what we’re NOT gonna say. Instead, we wanna be really specific at looking at, you know, where are those turnovers are happening and how can we cut down on those so we can get more rim attempts, more 3’s.

>I thought the shot profile was really positive, actually 50% of all our FG’s were at the rim. So thst’s huge, I think in these first two games, I mean the high-value shots we’re taking, that’s gonna really be a competitive advantage for us in the longterm. I think we’ve had like the lowest midrange rate in the league, so that’s a positive.”

I also noticed that Serah Williams broke “the rule” a few times in the first game lol and then when she caught the ball in similar situations last night, she did turn those down to try and make another play. She didnt exactly make the best decision after turning them down, but the point being that it was cool to see players adapt in real-time to the coaching philosophies.

He also has very positive things to say about Carla Leite who is one of my favorite players to watch.

Player Interviews:

• SAB + Luisa post-game presser after SEA: https://youtu.be/IivdCC778Pc?si=OhgcxNJLVfld8pXn

• Frieda Buhner post-practice availability: https://youtu.be/dagOLdJL0DY?si=XTFse6ZE0j3FweLQ

• Chloe Bibby post-practice: https://youtu.be/8OuevMe2rvQ?si=M0rVKc77GckA4vZq

• Bridget Carleton: https://youtu.be/AC-8EW9aBjo?si=tYGVYCKr3kZsae8G

• Maya Caldwell at shootaround (?): https://youtu.be/m3cIAOXxI6g?si=QZ0S9PqFwfWanP7U (PS: she “never made those flashcards btw” lol, reference from her quotes in an article below)

• Serah Williams + Nyadiew Puoch LAS post-game presser: https://youtu.be/iV16d19FmKw?si=euvrNB2sOOBWQuFC

“Nik from the O” Articles:

Nik Streng (u/NikFromTheO) has done a tremendous job covering the Fire at training camp and keeping the Fire sub updated on the regular. I read a few pieces on there that were super helpful to help get a read on how things were developing and the team was meshing and adapting to a new style. Some excerpts from a few articles I think fans might find helpful:

1st Day of Training Camp:

>Sarama has never coached in the WNBA. He also has the task of teaching his “constraints-led approach” style of basketball to a group of players who have never worked with him before.

>“It’s definitely been an adjustment,” said Maya Caldwell, a guard taken from the Atlanta Dream in the expansion draft. “Coach has a different style of play than what, you know, any hooper is used to. It’s not very traditional, but I feel like we all love that. We’re all open minded and we’re buying into it.”

>Caldwell joked that she needs to make a set of flashcards for the terminology that Sarama uses at practice. But she said his enthusiasm has every player ready to learn the system.

>“I do love how you can tell how much he trusts it. You can tell that there’s science and there’s math behind it,” Caldwell said. “Again, it’s brand new. We’re so used to traditional basketball that’s been going on for all of eternity. So what he brings to the table is fresh. It’s a new perspective and I feel like everybody appreciates that.”

Sylvia Fowles:

>While Sarama is only a few days into his WNBA tenure, he said Fowles has already proven to be a huge asset to the team.

>“Just the perspective she provides is huge,” Sarama told reporters on Tuesday, adding that she’s been a great help at pointing out little details in things like defensive schemes.

>Fowles also quickly became a fan of Sarama’s constraints-led approach to practicing, especially as a way to shake things up.

>“I think I would have appreciated having something different playing 15 years in the league just because everything was so routine,” Fowles said. “Can you imagine in your 15th season that you’re still doing like layup lines and stuff like that? It becomes pretty old. But just to test the brain to do stuff that’s unordinary out of the things that we was taught to do all our life. I think one is challenging, but two is genius.”

reddit.com

u/Ingramistheman — 17 days ago

▲ 0 r/wnba

Tl;dr: 5 questions/subtopics (in bold) to help me navigate a bunch of intertwining dynamics so that I dont say anything offensive. My larger goal is to see the largest growth of the women’s game and to tear down some negative societal attitudes about women’s athletic figures (e.g black women seen as more masculine or having defined arms seen as not feminine).

This is a topic that’s been going on the past couple days that I’m looking for some nuanced discussion on and have some questions that I’d like answered. I noticed some comments in the Fever game thread last night (presumably from women) on players’ bodies that seem completely normal to me, but from what I’ve been told by other women seem to be off-limits so Im just having trouble understanding all of this.

Selfishly, I’d like some of these questions answered so that I can figure out how to navigate this going forward and not say anything offensive.

From a more existential view, I wonder about all of this and how it may impact the growth of the women’s game in the next 10, 20, 50 years (which is my main concern).

*Disclaimer: I do not condone speaking negatively about women’s bodies in any context so pls do not use this as a place to get your shitty takes off or assume that I’m advocating for the right to make disparaging remarks about players.

What I AM wondering about is:

1) Is there a certain rule of thumb that I should be following? Would I be wrong to point out a players’ strong frame, muscle definition, broad shoulders, tree trunk legs, etc? To me those are positive descriptors in relation to athletic performance that I commonly hear in men’s basketball. Im not interested in any of these descriptors cosmetically, Im speaking specifically in relation to their function in the game of basketball.

2) One of the topics floating around in CBA negotiations was mandatory attendance at a Draft Combine for potential draftees. I dont think it was actually put in the CBA, but the fact that it was brought up signals to me where the game is heading… So I’m wondering: is it possible that we may need to/want to adapt some of our “unwritten rules” when it comes to this topic considering that draft combine piece? Let’s say this gets enacted in the next 10 years and it’s publicized similarly to how it is in other sports where I can easily access the combine results like this. What would be in/out-of-bounds to talk about regarding objective measurements and anthropometrics?

3) I am well aware that there are societal differences in the way that men and women are treated and the way their bodies/images are talked about. Assume that I am not completely ignorant here. My next question is: Is there any room for us all to acknowledge those societal pressures, but then simultaneously choose to separate sports from that? And/or, is it possible that through sports we can combat or reframe some of these societal ideologies & shortcomings, particularly as they relate to women’s athletic figures?

4) I can acknowledge that women may be able to say some things about other women’s bodies that men shouldn’t say. Am I off-base in that interpretation? If this interpretation is true, then again back to Q1, where is that line drawn for men so that I can try to stay on the right side of that line?

*5) If there are any current/former “high level” female athletes on here, what are your opinions? For the purposes of this convo, we’ll just say “high level” = you’re in the weight room 3+ days a week or do intense strength & conditioning in the offseasons to prepare yourself athletically for the next season. Could be college & above, could be that you “took it serious” in HS even though your peers didnt.

I’m looking for nuanced discussion so that I can navigate my own thoughts on this and so that others also have a space to do so and we can all listen to different ppl’s perspectives rather than everyone assuming the person on the other side of the screen is a raging imbecile. I am NOT here to say that my opinion is right and everyone else is wrong, I am simply asking questions and trying to have a larger conversation so that I can make sense of all these intertwining dynamics.

Please be civil and leave your negativity at the door.

Edit: Formatting