u/JesseTheClassy

One thing not ever talked about: Rocket Racoon has had a MASSIVE amount of buffs. And he always has a higher win rate globally than most other strategists across all ranks. He is not "gutted" or "unplayable".

Ive already mentioned that i personally love this little racoon a ton, and he is my ride or die. However: Everytime im recommended a post for this sub, its always one talking about how bad he feels "now".

Rocket raccoon since launch has had an average of a 53% win rate, with a decent pickrate usually being the 4th or 5th most played strategist. This is across all roles, but yes this *includes* diamond and above, which is what most consider to be viable for data. So he is not a random niche pick played rarely, but instead a character played quite a bit.

There's so much talk about him being "gutted" after a literal 2 m/s reduction in WALL crawl speed and how he's just no longer fun.

Something that isn't considered is that Rocket Racoon has had a higher-than-average win rate EVERY season, and has received nothing but buffs for the most part. Comparing neglible changes to actual character defining changes which I'll list below, if any of those were ever nerfed that would start to make him ACTUALLY less viable. Which, considering the winrate he has may actually happen one day. Compared to other supports, he is one that has has one of the least amount of nerfs, and nothing (and I do mean nothing) being enough to kill or change the character in a significant negative way.

Let me remind you of what he USED to be, and what COULD be taken away to make him feel actually less impactful:

*He has had his projectile speed increased both on his before-heal effect (regular travel speed) and his during-heal effect (when it starts to heal an ally*. The projectile speed used to be 60 m/s, and now it is 80 m/s. The on-heal speed used to have the orb travel 4 m/s, and now it is 7 m/s. Imagine going back to his orbs being slower. That would be a real nerf.

*The time of his heal orb being out was increased from 5 secs to 7 secs. Sounds small, but as of writing this his orb heals 50 hp per second. That's a total of a potential 100 HP extra from one orb, or: WITHIN HIS 8 SHOTS THATS AN EXTRA 800 HP TOTAL PER CLIP BEFORE RELOADING. Safe to say, if this were reverted this would be a real nerf, and a real backlash. THIS is where he would start to be "gutted".

*Yeah his ultimate gave his team 25% damage boost, then went to 40% and then back down to 25%. They did this to compensate them adding overhealth on his ult way back when. Such a shame. Despite that nerf, he.... wait... whoa... hold on... they INCREASED IT BACK TO 40%? INCREASED?!?! Wait so he has constant overshielding as well as 40% DAMAGE BOOST to his team?? Also the shielding he gets hasnt been touched?!?! Im being a bit sarcastic here fo course, but Imagine if this gets reverted again: THAT would again, be where he would start to feel "gutted".

*Just throwing it out there to remember: He used to only heal per second as a base. He now does a direct 50 hp heal per orb right when it hits a target instead of waiting a second to do that 50 hp heal. If THIS was changed or reverted, he would have less immediate healing. This would be where he would start to feel "gutted".

Again, rocket has a 2 m/s crawl speed reduction on WALLS. NOT HIS BASE MOVEMENT SPEED: JUST ON WALLS. I've compared my rocket gameplay to so many other people so I can see my own mistakes and what others are doing. I can safely say ON MY LIFE that most of the people I see aren't on a wall *nearly* enough to be affected by this across all ranks. And considering how many buffs and positive changes he has had, I GUARANTEE a 2 m/s nerf on WALLS is nowhere near the worst thing they can do to him to make the character "unplayable".

reddit.com
u/JesseTheClassy — 12 days ago
▲ 13 r/rivals

I know most won't read this entire thing. Ill spare your time. TLDR: The most logical, "mathematically" correct triple support composition consists of Loki, Adam Warlock, and Rocket Racoon. If you want to know why, read on.

Hello there, I wanted to showcase a very detailed guide on both role theory for the strategist role, as well as define what makes up a good triple support composition while most fail. As for personal credentials: I am a celestial ranked strategist main with tons of hours and games put in. I've played mobas for years and have mained the support role in each game and to high ranks. Despite this statement though, please note that this is all in the end my own personal look on the matter.

This will be in sections, so feel free to jump to a section you would like to take a look at.

Sections:

  1. INTRO
  2. ROLE THEORY
  3. STRATEGIST ROLES EXPLAINED
  4. COMMON STRATEGIST TRAITS
  5. CURRENT INDIVIDUAL CHARACTER ROLES
  6. HOW TO STRUCTURE A TRIPLE-SUPPORT COMPOSITION
  7. THE BEST CURRENT TRIPLE SUPPORT COMPOSITION BY LOGIC

____________________

INTRO:

NOTE: I use the words “strategist” and “support” interchangeably, but i mean the same thing when referenced. Same with "duelist" and "dps".

A lot of folks seem to think the same way about strategists: They are just healers, and whoever outputs the most heals saves the team and wins the games. This is why Invisible Woman and Cloak & Dagger are some of the most played 2-support pairs, as they both excel in these. But if you can just pick these two and win, why do other supports exist right?

Netease has stated the 2-2-2 composition has a higher winrate than the triple support composition, or 2-1-3.

But of course there is the reason why people try to go triple support.

We've all seen it: When your team is getting rolled left, right, and center by the enemy team, one person decides that there isn't enough healing to deal with it. So then they pick a random third strategist to try to make up for it. Often times, the match ends with a loss, with numerous folks complaining there just wasn't enough damage to push through. But that's weird: You now have 3 supports, and surely 3 supports make up the damage of one person right? Also, how are you still dying if you have 3 healers?!?!

Well, that is what we are discussing today. The answer is simple:

You simply have the wrong strategist roles being played for the triple support composition. Let's fix that with identifying role theory and figuring out how to best get the most out of each role to win games!

____________________

ROLE THEORY:

So every role has a sub-role within it's main classification. These are often thrown around as other terms though because it's easier to understand. Examples of what you might have heard is "dive" or "solo tank" or "poke". But these are actually the tertiary role that you are hearing, or the role within a role

The primary classification of a vanguard, duelist, or strategist is classified as a vanguard, duelist, or strategist. The secondary classification is the role of vanguard, duelist, or strategist they are. THEN the exact type of these characters follow. The secondary classification is called either a main role, or a flex/sub role.

The main classification is meant as a primary consistent source of what the role is known for. Constant damage means someone can provide a main support of damage to enemies. Constant tanking means they provide a lot of shielding (with their body or a literal shield) and be a consistent front line. Constant healing means one can provided a lot of healing output to someone for a ton of time.

The flex/sub role is meant as a secondary source of what the role is known for. The damage dealer may not have consistent damage, but will be enough to either begin a kill for another/secure a kill yourself. A flex/sub tank may not be there to protect allies consistently, but they can disrupt the enemy backlines making it harder for the enemy team to engage. A flex strategist may not be able to provide constant healing, but they do heal as a secondary trait while providing extra damage or utility to their team as a primary trait.

  • Do note that some characters just by nature, both in rivals and any game, can fill the role of both of these. Or have a "dual role" classification.

Here is what i mean when it comes to defining what this means for a couple characters:

Dr Strange:

  • -Primary Classification: Vanguard
  • -Secondary Classification: Main Vanguard
  • -Tertiary Classification: Shield Tank

Thor:

  • -Primary Classification: Vanguard
  • -Secondary Classification: Flex Vanguard
  • -Tertiary Classification: Brawl/Dive tank

So this identifies Strange is a main tank, while Thor is a flex/sub tank.

Why does this all matter: Well in role theory, typically one of each in a 2-2-2 role would statistically have a higher win rate. This is proven in professional teams for a lot of games, but Marvel Rivals and Overwatch showcase this the most at least on vanguards and duelists

I mean think about it from just simple terms: One tank up front to protect, one to disrupt enemies in their backline. One dps to provide damage in the front, while a flank character helps the sub tank secure kills in the backline.

The issue is that unlike other games, Rivals tends to favor having two main strategists in a 2-2-2 comp rather than one main strategist and one flex strategist. This is because of how big and impactful offensive ultimates are in this game with the wide amount of area damage or targets they can cover.

This shouldn't dissuade the playstyle of flex/sub supports though, but it is certainly why more people flame folks playing Ultron and Jeff because of their lack of ability to deal with that above statement.

____________________

STRATEGIST ROLES EXPLAINED

Here is a breakdown of the Strategist roles in Marvel Rivals. This is a "one-size-fits-most" type of explanation of each role, as there will always be minor exceptions. But the general fundamentals are as follows.

Main Strategist/Support:

  • This is a strategist with the ability to provide consistent healing to their team as a primary goal. They keep allies alive in fights with well sustained healing that is constant and sure. Most strategists who can do so have a team-saving survivability ultimate with the intended purpose of saving allies. Typically, main strategists also have the capabilities to heal at most types of ranges (being able to heal up in the sky, on alternating terrain, and both from short and longer distances).

Dual Role Strategist/Support:

  • This is a strategist that has enough consistent healing to run alongside another main strategist, but not enough to be a great main strategist in most cases. Comparatively, this is a strategist that has enough utility to run alongside another flex strategist, but not enough utility or damage to be considered a flex strategist themselves.

 

Flex / Sub Strategist:

  • This is a strategist that typically brings utility or damage to the table more than higher amounts of healing. The amount of healing they provide usually is not consistent enough to be considered a main strategist, but often the trade off is higher amounts of damage compared to most other main strategists or other ways to constantly help allies out such as buffs, crowd control, or something to help out in a fight. 
    • Additionally, a flex support may have a high healing output, but not enough to keep all allies alive consistently or no other utility/ultimate to save teammates as the intended purpose. This is why as of writing this, Jeff is considered a flex support.

____________________

COMMON STRATEGIST TRAITS

This is a detailed breakdown of the most common traits that are given to supports. Most of these are what essentially define a strategist’s nature and why they are classified as the role they are in. In simple terms: It's what a strategist is known for.

Consistent uptime of high healing: This means the character has the ability to output consistent high amount of healing, enough to heal an ally (using tanks as reference) to full hp in a short amount of time and consistently enough to keep healing with only a primary-fire reload in-between mix in with abilities.

Consistent healing (not high healing like a main strategist): Self-explanatory, essentially providing a constant heal with almost 0 downtime but not enough as a main strategist.

Team-saving survivability ultimate: An ultimate that is “made” with the intention of keeping “all” allies alive as the primary function in a fight. This can be through high healing output or shielding. This is not a comparison of “which one is better than the other” or “which one counters another”. This is just the intended purpose of the ultimate itself. Gambit and Deadpool are excluded for the following reasons

  • Gambit’s ult is used for a unique type of damage boost, movement speed, and purification as it’s *main* function. The healing over time outside of the 100 hp burst heal is not enough to warrant survivability. This does NOT mean that the ultimate cannot be used to counter other high survivability ultimates -- this is just intended to clarify that Gambit’s ult itself is made as a massive buff-type of ult. The primary purpose is for engaging and pressure, not dis-engage or surviving.
  • Deadpool’s ultimate has the intended purpose of keeping all allies alive *within his range*, thus making it a close-range engage sustainability ultimate. It does not have the potential to save numerous allies around the battleground. Comparatively, Luna Snow’s ultimate differs from this despite similar healing range because unlike Deadpool: She doesn’t need to be hitting enemies to heal during her ultimate. This, and her heal output during her ult is massively higher.

 

Has at least 50% of the damage of a main duelist (not a flex/sub duelist): This doesn’t mean consistent uptime in damage like a dps, but rather when a target needs to be focused (an enemy tank for reference), the character combined with another character of the same caliber can output enough damage to equate to a primary dps (think characters like Winter Soldier, Starlord, Punisher). Just because a character has a burst-type of damage does not equate to consistent damage when focusing a target. The damage needs to be consistent enough to continuously deal immediate damage. 3 supports equaling the damage of 1 duelist does not make up for the lack of a duelist as this means one support alone only does 33% enough of the damage when needed. 

Additionally: One support with 50% of the damage of a duelist helps the other duelist out to secure a kill much more than a support that has a low amount of immediate damage.

A unique fight-changing ability: This is an ability that can change the fight of battle at an immediate given notice without it being an ultimate ability**. Right now, the inclusions for this are as follows:

  • Rocket revive beacon -- The ability to resurrect allies consistently through the duration of a match. 
  • Cloak’s dark teleportation  -- The potential to protect numerous allies from immediate high burst damage
  • Loki’s rune stones -- The ability to survive high amounts of burst at once for numerous allies
  • White fox’s charm ability -- Has a very wide hitbox, can hit multiple targets, and can easily cancel channel-type enemy ults (such as Scarlet Witch, Emma Frost, Dr. Strange, Peni Parker, Ultron, etc).
  • Gambit -- Has a multi-target ally cleanse ability and a multi-impact enemy heal reduction debuff ability.
  • Adam Warlock’s soul bond and self-revive -- His soul bond ability can save numerous allies from immediate burst damage, and he can resurrect himself to continue healing after death when needed.
    • Despite excluding other ultimates from other characters as a “unique fight-changing ability”, Adam Warlock’s ultimate can bring all 6 allies back to life as it’s intended purpose. So it doesn’t count as a survivability ultimate nor an ultimate that would directly impact the fight while being actively “in” said fight. It’s more of a fight-changing ability to shake the tide of a fight out of nowhere when the fight is “thought” to be over. Similar logic to why Rocket Racoon’s revive beacon is included.

The ability to survive by design: This means the ability to self-survive without the need or aide of another support, while doing so to the point your outcomes for survival are greater as long as the focus itself is to survive. This means consistent in-fight mobility (not out-out-fight mobility), extreme burst heal to self, or the ability to escape quickly  while being hard to hit.

The ability to reposition quickly when needed: The ability to reposition within a few seconds covering a large distance in order to keep the sightline of allies for healing/support purposes. This is not the same as survivability, as moving quickly when needed to see allies versus surviving in-combat are 2 different things. As of typing this, most strategists have both the ability to reposition quickly being hand-in-hand with their ability to survive with the exception of Gambit (he can reposition pretty quick, but his kit is not made with the intended design for consistent self-survivability).

Damage boost to allies: The ability to increase ally damage. This is mostly self explanatory, but 2 inclusions that aren’t direct “boosts” but do the same intended purpose are Cloak’s terror cape and Gambit’s ultimate. By definition: Cloak’s terror cape creates "vulnerability" on an enemy which increases the enemy damage taken, while Gambit’s ult enhances “attacks” with single target explosive damage at a 25% ratio. Both aren’t full of damage boosts to all ability output damage, but essentially achieve the same or similar thing.

Burst damage: This is the capability to output a massive chunk of damage within 2 blinks of an eye without it being healed at least by half the damage taken quickly. By definition, this does not always mean someone with the ability to cleave out a part of a health bar equates to consistent enough damage to output 50% the damage of a duelist. This same logic works as to why Starlord is considered a main duelist w/ consistent damage while Black Panther is considered a flex/sub duelist with the potential to burst a target.

  • Though as of writing this, most strategists who can output 50% the damage of a primary duelist also deal a quick burst of damage (with the exception of Loki, as while his damage is consistent, it isn't burst enough to cleave a giant chunk of hp without it being able to be healed quickly.)

 

As simple as I can describe it: If the character can make someone panic like they just got hit by a Black Panther combo in 2 blinks, they are enough to be considered as a candidate for burst potential.

Shielding: A character that has an ability or ultimate that can provide shielding (either overhealth or a literal ability-blocking shield).

____________________

CURRENT INDIVIDUAL CHARACTER ROLES

So with the roles now defined and the strategist traits that exist, we can take a look at every strategist’s current role and what they are primarily known for.

  1. IMPORTANT NOTE 1: This is not in any particular order or rank. Additionally, this does not mean more support traits = a better strategist individually. These are just by definition what these characters bring to the table**
  2. IMPORTANT NOTE 2: These are being listed as their “intended” purpose, as a general consensus, rather than what the character has the “potential” to do. You’ll see what I mean, but as an example -- Referencing the “ability to survive” section: Just because a character has something to help them escape someone in theory doesn't make it a consistent enough method to do so thus isn’t what the character is known for (I.e. Luna snow’s freeze or Mantis’ sleep ability).

Main Strategists:

Invisible woman

  • Consistent uptime of high healing
  • Team-saving survivability ultimate
  • Ability to survive by design
  • Shielding (outside of ultimate)

Cloak and dagger

  • Consistent uptime of high healing
  • Team-saving survivability ultimate
  • A unique fight-changing ability (cloak’s fade ability -- potential to protect numerous allies from high burst damage)
  • Ability to survive by design
  • **Damage boost to allies (Not a “boost”, but increases enemy damage taken so it counts as indirect amplification to numerous enemies)

Loki

  • Consistent uptime of high healing
  • Has at least 50% of the damage of a main duelist (not a flex/sub duelist)
  • A unique fight-changing ability (Rune stone ability to survive high amounts of burst at once for numerous allies)
  • The ability to survive by design
  • Ability to reposition quickly

Luna snow

  • Consistent uptime of high healing
  • Team-saving survivability ultimate
  • Ability to reposition quickly

White fox

  • Consistent uptime of high healing
  • Team-saving survivability ultimate
  • A unique fight-changing ability (her charm ability -- very wide hitbox, can hit multiple targets, can easily cancel channel-type enemy ults).
  • The ability to survive by design
  • Ability to reposition quickly
  • Shielding (outside of ultimate)

Dual role:

Rocket Racoon

  • Consistent healing (not high healing like a main strategist)
  • Team saving survivability ultimate
  • A unique fight-changing ability (BRB resurrection beacon -- numerous game revives for allies to remain in the fight)
  • Ability to survive by design
  • Ability to reposition quickly
  • Damage boost to allies
  • Shielding (overhealth on ultimate)

Gambit

  • Consistent healing (not high healing like a main strategist)
  • A unique fight-changing ability (multi-target ally cleanse, multi-impact enemy heal reduction)
  • Ability to reposition quickly
  • **Damage boost to allies (ultimate gives a 25% increased damage-enhanced bursts to allies as long as targets are hit by them).

Flex:

Mantis

  • Team saving survivability ultimate
  • Has at least 50% of the damage of a main duelist (not a flex/sub duelist)
  • Damage boost to allies
  • Burst damage (on primary fire headshots)
  • Shielding (overhealth on ultimate)

Ultron

  • Consistent healing (not high healing like a main strategist)
  • Team saving survivability ultimate
  • Has at least 50% of the damage of a main duelist (not a flex/sub duelist)
  • The ability to survive by design
  • Damage boost to allies
  • Burst damage
  • Shielding

Jeff

  • Consistent uptime of high healing
  • The ability to survive by design
  • Ability to reposition quickly

Adam Warlock

  • Has at least 50% of the damage of a main duelist (not a flex/sub duelist)
  • A unique fight-changing ability (Soul bond can save numerous allies from burst. Adam can self resurrect himself. Also despite excluding ultimates from other characters, Adam’s ultimate can bring all 6 allies back to life. So it doesn’t count as a survivability ultimate, but more of a fight-changing  ability to shake the tide of a fight out of nowhere).
  • The ability to survive by design
  • Ability to reposition quickly (with his mobility buffs)
  • Burst damage

Deadpool (Strategist Version)

  • Has at least 50% of the damage of a main duelist (not a flex/sub duelist)
  • The ability to survive by design
  • Ability to reposition quickly

After seeing the above traits, there can be some identifications made from this data:

  1. In most cases, main strategists do not have a big immediate damage output like burst damage.
  2. In most cases, flex/sub strategists do not have a consistent healing output.
  3. In most cases, main strategists have a team-saving survivability ultimate

____________________

HOW TO STRUCTURE A TRIPLE-SUPPORT COMPOSITION

Now finally, with all of the above information outlined, we can make some conclusions on how to structure a triple support composition along with some inserted logic.

Most Important traits for triple support:

  • At least 1 character needs to be able to keep a consistent uptime of high healing with minimal interruption). This logic is just simply true even in a 2-support composition. This is why Invisible Woman and Mantis can work in a 2 support composition while Mantis and Ultron cannot. This is why White Fox can work with Deadpool, but Jeff and Deadpool doesn't
  • 2 strategists need to have team-saving ultimates (examples of this above). There are 6 people on the other team, so you will need the potential to try to save your team from anything that can randomly come to your own team at any given notice. One just wont cut it. (Loki is the exception to one of these, as he can copy another strategist who has one).
  • One out of the 3 strategists need to have enough consistent and efficient damage to equate to 50% of the  damage of one main duelist when needed. This is explained more in the section referenced. 
  • At least ONE unique fight-changing ability needs to be on one of the 3 supports. These fight-changing abilities, just like the name indicates, can change the course of a fight. A simple resurrection at the right time or being saved from something that would have taken you from 100% to 0% hp in a second is a gamechanger. 
  • At least ONE utility type of ultimate is needed to prevent stalled out fights or the lack of damage/utility when needed. People see triple support as a way to be defensive and keep allies alive without thinking of the need for engage and create pressure for the enemy team.

So with that now laid out, you can grab any 3 supports that all fit that criteria, and it will work effectively. Here are some example triple support compositions using the criteria (this is not ranked and not in any particular order):

  • Cloak and Dagger > Rocket Racoon > Deadpool
  • Invisible Woman > Gambit > Mantis
  • Luna Snow > Mantis > Jeff
  • Loki > Gambit > Mantis

____________________

THE BEST CURRENT TRIPLE SUPPORT COMPOSITION BY LOGIC

Now behold: Here is the best logically correct triple support composition, if you are focusing solely on the minimum criteria of what a composition should have, the amount of traits that can be added to one team, having those traits appear more than once per character (thus why I say "mathematically correct")

Loki > Rocket Racoon > Adam Warlock.

  • Consistent uptime of high healing: x1
  • Consistent healing (not high healing like a main strategist): x1
  • Has at least 50% of the damage of a main dps (not a sup/flex dps): x2
  • Team saving ultimate: x2 (Loki copying Rocket’s ultimate / Another main strategist)
  • A unique fight-changing ability: x 3 
  • The ability to survive by design: x3
  • The ability to reposition quickly when needed: x3
  • Damage boost to allies:x1
  • Burst damage: x1
  • Shielding: x1

Even I didn't know this would be the best team comp, but the logic makes sense. You have 3 people that are hard to kill by nature and who can constantly reposition around the battle. One has consistent high healing, one has healing, and one has a multi-ally burst heal.

Loki can create a heal field that also can counter high immediate bursts with his runes, Rocket can resurrect an ally if they die every 45 seconds. Adam Warlock can both self-resurrect and has the potential to revive most of this team (or in usual conditions, at least bring 2 people back to life).This is in addition to his soul-bond ability to also survive heavy burst like Loki.

Rocket’s amplifier ultimate isn’t a heal, but provides a constantly big amount of overhealth while simultaneously providing a damage boost for allies. Loki has the ability to copy rocket’s ultimate, another enemy support’s team-saving ultimate, or Adam’s resurrection ultimate if the moment warrants it.

Both Loki and Adam Warlock can consistently deal enough consistent damage when needed to equate to one main duelist (as long as they are hitting their shots).

This team composition effectively has it all. Healing all the time, damage all the time, keeping folks alive all the time, and ways to literally circumvent death over and over and over. They have ways to help the entire team engage AND disengage fights.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask.

reddit.com
u/JesseTheClassy — 19 days ago

"Now who's the REAL monster? 😏"

"Impressive… but I will find a way to break you 😈"

"Such remarkable power -- I hope you put it to good use 😩"

"I hate to admit it, but I'm impressed 😏"

"Vacation's over, back to work. Hope you've still got some 'heroism' left in you 😉"

"If i can't break your bones, I'll break your will instead 🔗"

"You're mind is mine -- IM in control here 😈"

"These enemies won't quit… but neither will you, it seems 😏"

u/JesseTheClassy — 23 days ago