u/Justice_of_Relief

Am very neutral when coming to this debate since it's clearly a battle of agendas. Both the DB and OPM fanbase are annoying when it comes to wanking their characters as l've seen people trying to scale Goku to outer or saitama to 4D with the hyperspace argument

However recently people trying to downplay the DB verse particularly this feat because the clash didn't destroy earth, of course it's a dumb and disingenuous argument coming from saitama fans and other people.

Now the funny part is people actually thinking saitama and garou destroying countless stars is comparable to what goku and beerus did and l'm not downplaying the feat since it is very impressive and gets saitama far into the galaxy ranges just not comparable to what Goku did.

At bare minimum goku and beerus clashing and producing shockwaves that affected the universe would be a multiversal feat since they were affecting multiple universes(Living universe,Heaven etc) not to mention King-Kai's planet which is said to transcend dimensions making it 5-6D.

Overall both fandoms are annoying and like overhyping their verse but we can not start creating false narratives that they're comparable feats because they aren't.

After years of research gathering it's finally time to scale naruto who l've been gatekeeping since there's a bunch of talking points surrounding this matter. Honestly I'll let you come up with any conclusion of where you scale naruto, this is just me bringing all the research into scaling him.

Let's start with the most obvious which is the size of Kaguya's dimensions:

Kaguya's dimensions are referred to as space-times in multiple sources however it's actually a mistranslation as the raw Kanji is "Kukan" which means space. Here's the breakdown:

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1Gtryys5PT/

So we know Kaguya's dimensions are not space-times but rather "Kukan"/space

Now this doesn't debunk universal naruto because let's understand that the universe is just one space.

everything from the planets,stars,galaxies are within that space and Kaguya was able to warp that entire space which is the naruto universe. But this isn't good enough so we need more consistency.

2. Parallel worlds

In the novel Kaguya's dimensions are referred to as a subspace, now people are gonna say they're just asking a question however Kaguya's dimensions are said to be parallel worlds which fits the description of a subspace.

For those who don't know, subspace=space with more than 3 dimensions and parallel universes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperspace

3. Redshift nebula

In the storm games(which are canon) we see a redshift nebula In Kaguya's dimensions now for anyone who skipped science class a redshift nebula indicates an expanding universe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble%27s_law

If your still skeptical about the credibility of the storm games. The breakdown is explained here where they're considered to be the best adaption of kishimoto's work

https://vt.tiktok.com/ZS9TfteN1/

4. Space curvature

In Boruto episode 15 Kinshiki reports they found tears in Kaguya's world and the space curvature exceeds 16 now for those of you who missed science class again.

Any space curvature above 1.00 is already larger than our observable universe since the space curvature of our universe is estimated to be nearly zero.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shape\\\_of\\\_the\\\_universe

5. "Kekkai"

Also in the same novel Kaguya's dimensions are said to be a Kekkai, now am well aware Kekkai has many meanings in Buddhism which just means some form of restricted zone but we need to be accurate and Kekkai in fantasy/fiction means energy barrier or pocket universe

Now we know Kaguya's dimensions are not energy barriers so wouldn't make any sense going by the first definition but rather second which is pocket universe.

Breakdown of the noun Kekkai is here which in fiction is either energy barrier or pocket universe:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%B5%90%E7%95%8C

Finally some people are gonna say she didn't create them but teleports people and it's easy to disprove that since she was going to destroy her dimension and make a new one from scratch as it says in the databook with the expansive TSO.

So with everything l've presented that proves the size of her dimensions we now move on to how naruto scales in terms of AP

Naruto on multiple occasions matched and damaged Kaguya so his AP should scale to her.

Adult naruto in base fought momoshiki who is stronger than Kaguya so this adds further consistency with him also fighting Issiki someone also stronger than Kaguya.

Overall these are just my talking points for why l consider naruto to be universal bare minimum but again I'll let you come to the conclusion.

I don't see why a lot of naruto scalers don't use the fact that Kaguya's worlds are referred to as a subspace which is the same as a hyperspace that encompasses more than 3 dimensions and parallel universes.

They're also called a Kekkai which in the context of anime/manga can mean energy barrier or pocket universe but it's more reasonable saying it's a pocket universe since her dimensions aren't a energy barrier but often referred to as a world/space/space-times so energy barrier wouldn't make any sense.

This is all just within my understanding. I'm not making any claims just presenting my talking points

If you've been around this sub long enough you'll find a lot of people like to scale both of these series pretty much the same way yet a double standard exists.

The talking points are literally the same with how you determine the size of Kaguya's dimensions and the realms by saying we see celestial bodies in the background yet only one of these series is called planetary while the other is universal despite having the same argument.

Am not saying who scales higher but it's really interesting to observe such a double standard when scaling both verses.

Mind you naruto scalers will say Kaguya's dimensions are only star-solar system sized because of the celestial bodies in the background while Bleach scalers take it to say the realms are universes because we see celestial bodies in the sky.

They also say the realms are universes because they're referred to as separate dimensions which am not denying that but try using the same line of thought as a naruto scaler by saying Kaguya's dimensions are universes because they're separate dimensions and your going to get bullied immediately.

Basically am not saying you can't use these arguments but l just find it funny the blatant double standard l keep observing when it comes to these verses and how people approve one being universal even when it uses the same logic of scaling as the one people think is only planetary.