u/K4StR

I didn't include S.Billy's W-Engine because that may be considered a spoiler.

All rupture W-Engines are basically the same:

-%HP as a main stat.

-Give 20% of crit rate.

-Give elemental sheer damage.

The fact that all the W-Engines of the Rupture characters are so similar already tells you a bit about the identity problem that Rupture characters have, beyond the problems of their class itself.

That's why it makes a lot of sense that during the last dev-talk, one of the proposals from the developers was to "Rework the Rupture class," probably because they themselves are aware of this problem.

Realistically, and without discrediting the developers, I don't think they'll actually give the Rupture class a new purpose or modify the existing Rupture characters.

"Why?" Because that would take considerable effort and time, which they probably can't afford. Although, of course, if they do that, then they'll be the best developers.

What I think they'll do is create a support character for Rupture that changes its gameplay, something like the Dahlia from HSR, or make future Rupture characters more differentiated in their gameplay.

Just like the title says, if you could change one single thing about a character to fix as many of their problems as possible, what would you change?

You can change anything: lore, design, meta, gameplay, or stuff outside the game. The basic rules are that you can only change one thing per character (so no changing both design and lore, for example), and you can't alter the character's essence too much (like making Seed Sr the playable character, for example).

This time I want us to talk about Season 2 to keep things more focused and smaller in scope... and because I know it's the most controversial one, lol.

I don't like making posts like this without contributing myself, so here are my changes:

· Pan Yinhu: Honestly? I wouldn't change anything. Pan is a decent character in every aspect.

· Ju fufu: I'd give her a different kit so she doesn't get brutally powercrept by Dialyn. Maybe make her a dedicated stunner for Rupture characters so she has a niche.

· Yixuan: Her lore. A lot of things would need to change in the story to actually save her, but I'd focus on 2 things:

· Create a good excuse for why Yixuan can't just solve all of the proxies' problems. The moment where Yixuan absorbs the miasma is a perfect excuse to bench her for a good while. · Remove the Elder of Yunkui Summit. The way that guy was used as a scapegoat so Yixuan wouldn't have made any mistakes was way too obvious and shameless. I'd rather have Yixuan make a serious mistake and redeem herself for it than have her come off as totally incompetent and clueless.

· Alice: Nothing. She's perfect.

· Yuzuha: Nothing. She's perfect.

· Seed: I would have shown Seed alongside Seed Sr. in the trailer. 99% of Seed's problems would be solved with that.

· Orpheus: Even though they have the same problem as Seed with the 2.x trailer, I'd instead change a certain part of their lore:

Specifically, I'd change the moment where the army tries to restrain the proxies and they escape with Yixuan, Obol Squad follows them, and they end up in a small confrontation where Magus is unnecessarily humiliated by Yixuan. Even if Magus needed to be "taken down a peg," that moment was terrible.

· Lucia: As one of the two black sheep of S2 (pun intended), I'd change her design. A more "nerdy" design with glasses, a full hoodie... Make her a total "Quiet girl in class that can ramble for hours about her specific interest"

· Yidhari: The second black sheep of S2. Even though Yidhari is a mess of problems herself, I think what would help her the most is a redesign.

Personally, I'd go for a more librarian-like design to lean more into her writer personality, with flared pants, maybe a comfier sweater? And I'd definitely give her those round glasses from her trailer because they're adorable.

· Manato: The obvious change for many would be to make him an S-rank character, but unfortunately for that to happen, you'd have to change several characters (specifically Banyue and Yidhari). So honestly, I don't see a simple good change for Manato.

· Dialyn: Yeah, the logical change would be to lower her power level to avoid the problem that happened in the meta... But honestly, I think that was more the ZZZ dev team wanting to raise the power of the stunner class in general, so nerfing Dialyn would be blaming her for something the meta wanted to do anyway.

· Banyue: Unlike Dialyn, I would increase Banyue's multipliers a bit, but ONLY for his more complicated skills (the manual cancels, not the auto combo), to reward those who actually play Banyue well.

· Zhao: I'd give her back the synergy with rupture characters that was taken away. I'd change the support requirement of her extra ability to a rupture or stun requirement.

· Ye Shunguang: Much like Yixuan, it's her lore. She needs various changes to save her story. The ones I think are most important:

· Introduce her into the story early. Version 2.1 could work perfectly as her introduction, along with some minor missions where we go into the Hollow with the other members of Y.S · Explore her relationship with the others at Yunkui Summit more. See her casually talking with Yixuan as student to teacher, as well as with her friends and her brother Shiyuan.

· Sunna: Nothing. She's perfect.

· Aria: I'd make her robot form more relevant in gameplay. Maybe a button that lets you switch which form you want to play in the Hollow? That way, those who prefer her human look are satisfied.

· Nangong Yu: Maybe an agent story. Beyond that, she's perfect.

· Cissia: I'd change her outfit. Although I personally like it, I think her "lazy girl who doesn't like her job" design could be conveyed differently. Have her wear the N.E.P.S. uniform but messily, not wearing the jacket or her badge, have her shirt unbuttoned (to show off her cleavage) and other accessories she would put on herself.

· Promeia: Despite the complains on her design, I wouldn't change anything.

· S.Billy: Nothing. He's perfect.

As the title says, not addressing certain things in zzz (and in gachas in general) is actually a strategy that allows devs to do things they normally couldn't:

· Gooner Designs: While this is largely due to zzz's higher age rating, not addressing these designs in-game helps maintain that +16 rating and also keep the game "safe" enough so those themes aren't the main attractive of the game like it is in Azur Lane or Browndust.

Think about it: Characters like Yidhari wear extremely scandalous clothing; basically half of her butt is exposed, as well as her chest... but that never gets addressed by the other characters! Don't get me wrong, my intention isn't to be sexist, but we have to recognize that it's very clear how the characters seem to be "blind" to that fact.

The same happens with Cissia. Although I love her for her personality and I actually like her design, with all honestly, she dresses like a hooker. Regardless of whether her design fits that of a police officer or not, her outfit alone should raise many questions and glances... but it doesn't! As I said, this is never addressed by the other characters.

So how does this work in the devs' favor? Well, you see, acknowledging that a sexualized design is, in fact, a sexualized design would automatically raise the game's tone!

One thing is a character with an attractive body and a sexualized design, but something entirely different is a character with an attractive body and a sexualized design that is also recognized by other characters as scandalous and intentionally provocative.

As an example, I remember seeing someone suggest a "Red Light District" faction in a post suggesting factions for zzz, to which someone replied something like:

"Even with how dirty Zenless can be, that could never happen because a character with that aesthetic would be directly tied to something +18; they would stop being a 'voluptuous woman who dresses sexy' and become a 'voluptuous woman who dresses that way to intentionally arouse.'"

So, what do you think about this? Do you think it's a valid point of discussion?

Today, I want to talk about things I hope stay in Season 3 (and hopefully beyond that). If you wanna add your opinion or something you want to keep, feel free to leave it in the comments!

• Storytelling: Something that doesn't get brought up much but I think it's really important is ZZZ's Storytelling. Specifically, how simple it is to understand and follow the story. It almost always gets straight to the point and avoids using overly pretentious language to get its message across. Although... I can't deny it's had its moments where it fell into that trap too (obviously, waifei).

A super wordy story doesn't necessarily make it bad, but I do think it can make a mediocre story worse (or drag down a straight-up bad one). I recently got back into Star Rail after dropping it around when Tribbie came out, and the whiplash i felt Made me remember why i also left WuWa... It's just too wordy.

Just to clarify what I mean, here's an example of what I'd call a very wordy narration:

"And so, the seventh crowned warrior of the dawn rode alongside the horse chosen by the golden sky toward the sunset of the new lands of Emperor Utaro the Tenth of the new celestial regime, carrying with him the golden sword of the starry heavens..."

Basically the same vibe as superhero movies when they start throwing out buzzwords like "nano-quantum technology" to justify Batman beating Darkseid in a fistfight.

"Reading Comprehension" ceases to be a genuine critique of the fans when the story is about a memory game where you have to remember 50+ unique terms.

Most players, and especially the members of this sub, are already familiar with the problems we face when playing these games:

· FOMO · Grinding to get what you want · Predatory monetization · Etc.

Objectively speaking, these issues are the most important in this type of game. However, I feel there are several negative points that often go overlooked compared to the more well-known ones I mentioned problems that can also be attributed to the business model of live-service games, and more specifically gachas.

I think this could be an interesting topic of conversation without needing to become toxic. Discussing the problems inherent to the game (and other gachas) is a good way to better focus criticism!

So, I want to contribute some of the lesser-known negative aspects that gacha games have and that affect ZZZ:

· Freedom of character design: Just a few hours ago, someone actually posted about this topic on the sub, so I want to add what I know and my opinion.

Unlike other types of media, gacha games base their monetization hook and popularity on characters 99% of the time (for a reason they're called "gachas"). Character design and creation is always the most important process in these games it is, after all, the product they want to sell you. And like any seller, they always want to sell as many "products" as possible to as many customers as possible.

Knowing that, character design stops being a matter of "story, setting, and worldbuilding" and becomes a product that either tries to appeal to a specific group (like Thiren beasts that appeal to the furry fandom) or tries to appeal to the largest possible audience (any Voidhunter or conventionally attractive character).

Seen that way, and knowing the audience ZZZ generally targets (young heterosexual men), it's understandable why such incredible designs like Pompei and Vesper get relegated to NPC jail in exchange for another conventionally attractive girl.

· Freedom of character writing: This connects to the previous point. Just like with design, character writing in a gacha game is not so much about "telling a good story / exploring X theme" but rather about creating an additional hook (alongside the design) that attracts players to certain characters. Telling a good story is desirable, but not the main goal.

This always sounds a bit "edgy," but the reality is that gacha games aim to generate a type of parasocial relationship. Character trailers, social media posts, the game's story, and even things like agent birthday artwork all revolve around one thing: creating the illusion that this character is "real" and make you feel attracted to them.

Knowing that, and remembering what I said about "appealing to the largest audience," it's understandable why there are certain barriers that devs don't want to cross if their intention is to generate the most revenue for their company:

· "I want a genuinely evil character": That's not going to happen because most players would look unfavorably upon a character who harms others in the story especially if they hurt other beloved characters. Moreover, it would damage the game's narrative since we're the good guys (would you roll for a character who hurts your waifu in the story?).

· "I want a character / characters in a canonical romantic relationship": As I mentioned before, many of the people who end up paying money for these characters develop a parasocial relationship with them, even if they know it's not real. Such a situation would damage their perception of that character. It's no wonder they're called "waifus" and "husbandos" (plus, there are a few who are genuinely unhinged and would do horrible things because of it).

• Development time: Although this is also a problem for any live-service game, it's in gacha games that this issue becomes most apparent:

Consider this situation for a moment: You have about 40 days for you and your team to develop the next ZZZ update. You need to do the following:

· Create 2 new characters (sometimes 3) with animations, modeling, lore, balanced kits, visuals, etc. · Write and program about 4–5 hours of main story. · Create and program several events with varied gameplay, lore, and specific rewards. · Develop the music. · Handle the advertising (trailers, EPs). · Introduce QOL changes. · Many more things.

Even recognizing that Hoyoverse is a multi-billion dollar company with probably hundreds of employees, it's undeniable that money and staff aren't "dark magic" capable of fully coping with such a restrictive 40-day development cycle.

This isn't to say that what we get is bad, no, but it is to make clear that often things aren't about "the writers are terrible!" or "the devs are lazy!" but rather a consequence of this model: even if the devs wanted to bring you a perfect story and not just something "okay," sometimes they simply can't.

Finally, I want to clarify that this does not necessarily represent my opinions about the game and its content and i'd like to invite everyone to reflect more often on the criticisms we and others make, to think about whether our complaints are well-targeted or just a representation of the meme:

· "I hope I don't run into any sexy anime girls" · *Walks into the sexy anime girls factory*

This is an idea that came to me a few days ago, and I feel it could be a really interesting topic of conversation: "What were the controversies surrounding each of the promotional characters in zzz?"

To be clear: My intention isn't to start fights or influence anyone's opinions; I'm just making this post for fun and a bit of weird nostalgia.

I consider a "Controversy" to be any measurable ammount of negativity towards a character in social media, so i don't consider 2 or 3 comments on Twitter to be "Controversy"

I've compiled as many controversies as I can remember for each character. Because there are so many characters, I'll keep it short, if you feel I've made a mistake or missed someone, feel free to leave a comment:

-Ellen: She was controversial because of her splash art where her nipples bumped through her maid dress, and because her age was implied to be that of a high schooler, which generated controversy among people outside the game.

-Zhu Yuan: Unless I'm remembering incorrectly, she didn't have any notable controversy.

-Jane Doe: She created controversy with both of her trailers (the one where she licks an apple and the other one with Tomiya). Basically, Jane was the one who started the wave of accusations against Zenless for being a "gooner game."

-Qingyi: Again, if I remember correctly, she didn't have any significant controversy... which seems strange to me because of certain things that will be seen later. -Caesar: The shower scene, of course. I could also add the fact that Caesar's trailer was the first to start the "auto-insert fantasy" in Zzz trailers, something that has been discussed to this day.

-Burnice: Nothing really big, she may have suffered a little because of the shower scene, but it's not a controversy specifically directed at her.

-Lighter: Again, pretty much clean.

-Yanagi: Instead of a considerable controversy, Yanagi had several minor complaints: +Her trailer, for being a bit gooner. +Her design, for being gooner. +The scene where Soukaku hugs her and puts her face in her breasts.

-Miyabi: Controversy arose due to her design before it was changed, which, to be fair, was quite justified lol.

-Harumasa: I think there wasn't any? Maybe some complaints about him being a free character, but that's a stretch.

-Astra: Her date trailer with Wise, the first blatant "auto-insert" in ZZZ, which always generates controversy in these games. We could also add the controversy surrounding her ship with Evelyn and how people argued about whether "Eve x Astra" or "MC x Astra" was canon.

-Evelyn: Controversy due to her ship with Astra, probably also because of her gooner design.

-S0 Anby: Some minor controversy because her design was considered "bland" and she was released as a weak character.

-Trigger: Controversy due to her gooner design and also because of a supposedly "simple" design, being compared to characters from the lowest tier of Nikke characters.

-Pulchra: Controversy because of her gooner Spa trailer, which I think even got censored in Korea lol.

-Vivian: Controversial for being openly a fangirl of the protagonists. During Vivian's banner, there were only two sides: you either loved her or hated her.

-Hugo: Although he had a redesign, just like Miyabi, this doesn't seem to have been prompted by community criticism. What did generate some controversy was his role in the story: He stole the spotlight from Sanby and Trigger in version 1.6, and had a very good role as a morally ambiguous character, but this was discarded in version 1.7.

-Yixuan: In my opinion, she is the most controversial character of 2.x (Only competing with Shungus) and she is for multiple reasons:

+Her design, the typical criticism for being a Gooner design

+Due to her theme, Powers and being the face of 2.x, she is the one who always gets the criticism for starting the "Death of the essence of zzz"

+Her role in the story was and continues to be highly criticized, in almost all structured critiques of 2.x "Yixuan" is a point in itself lol.

-Ju fufu: For being a small woman with a low degree of sexualization, several players accused the devs and players of being pdfs.

-Pan Yinhu: Nothing, he is chill.

-Yuzuha: I think nothing? Maybe the summer skin for being gooner, but nothing more than that.

-Alice: Same as Yuzuha.

-Seed: Seed was highly criticized and hated for being considered a "Bait and switch": During the 2.x trailer and 2.1 only Seed Sr was shown, making many believe (me lol) that the robot would be the playable character, But in the end Seed Jr came out of nowhere and it turns out that she is the playable character.

Also for being a walking "Foot fetish" character.

-Orpheus: Similar to Seed, players expected a "Cold and Serious Leader" due to her 2.x trailer But she ended up being a "Clumsy peanut" (Personally, this was one of the dumbest controversies)

-Lucia: For coming out of nowhere. She is another culprit of the, supposed, "Death of the urban aesthetic" of zzz, in addition to being criticized for her re-design which increased her gooner factor.

Oh yes, and for stealing Yixuan's clothes.

-Yidhari: Like Lucia, she appeared without prior notice. To date, the most criticized design in ZZZ, not only for being the most gooner character in the entire game but also for its "Collage" of concepts that don't quite come together.

Also for stealing Yixuan's clothes as well.

-Manato: Controversy for being a character very loved and expected by the community only to end up being castrated by being released as an A-rank character. Additionally, to this day he has gained a certain bad reputation because some of the most intense haters/larpers of ZZZ tend to be fans of him (Please don't do that, Manato is a cool guy)

-Dialyn: She was controversial for being the first non-Voidhunter character to surpass by a fair margin in power all those of her class, effectively powercreeping Trigger and Lighter in their own teams and replacing Jufufu. (It's curious that it took so long for a character to be controversial for the meta, lol)

-Banyue: Besides the complaints about replacing Manato only 1 patch after his release, I think he didn't have any relevant controversy.

-Ye Shunguang: As I said before, She competes with Yixuan for being the most controversial character of 2.x:

+Her date trailer with Wise is even more blatant than the trailer with Astra and many people hated it (I remember Kettei mentioned in one of his videos that Shungus's trailer has the most dislikes of all of zzz's, by far)

+Her role in the story: Like Yixuan "Ye Shunguang" is a central point in discussions about how bad the story of the Waifu Peninsula was.

+Her forced romance with the protagonists, although this point should go in the story one, I mention it separately because she is (so far) the character that generated the most controversy in this aspect.

-Zhao: I don't recall anything controversial about her, some isolated accusations of being "A character for pdfs" But the truth is they were minimal, possibly because she is a furry.

-Sunna: Now yes, Sunna and her skin were the ones that raised the most controversy on the side of accusations of "Lolibait" towards the dev team and the players, something that personally seems strange to me given that Zenless had already shown this type of character since its release (As I said before, Qingyi passed without many problems despite being the most sexualized small woman).

-Aria: Several complaints due to being promoted as a shapeshifter character But in gameplay she only uses her robot form 5% of the time.

She also received splashes from Sunna's controversy.

-Nangong Yu: Same as her 2 companions, in general the idols raised quite a bit of controversy in that aspect.

-Cissia: Controversy for her extremely gooner design, accompanied by occasional criticisms of "Ruining" the consistency of zzz's factions.

-Promeia: Controversy for having a very gooner design, although all this occurred with more strenght when her first beta design was leaked where... Well, she would have dethroned Yidhari if she had come out like that.

-S.Billy: Not out yet, But so far he doesn't seem to have any kind of controversy.

Comparing the designs from Season 1 to Season 2, were they better? Specifically talking about the banner characters, not so much the ones already in the game.

I'd like to know more people's opinions on this topic, since character design is half of what convinces us to get them. There are a few points I'd like to contribute, although I'm not an expert, of course:

- Variety: Regardless of your personal taste in characters, it's undeniable that Season 2 surpassed the first in this regard. One of the reasons I fell in love with Zenless in the first place was its variety of designs and its boldness with unconventional characters: A pretty girl with animal ears is something you can find in any other high-production gacha game, but characters like Banyue, Zhao, or Billy? You won't find them in any other game with that level of production.

Season 1 certainly had some very memorable designs and used urban aesthetics to do things you don't often see (most gacha games are fantasy-based).

But, in my opinion, it's the unique designs that give Zzz its identity, and I always like to use this analogy:

"Conventional designs (your typical big-breasted catgirl) are like pizza. Yes, it's delicious and you could eat it several times without a problem, but if you could ONLY eat pizza every day, you'd probably get bored or end up despising it."

I know not everyone is like that (and I know many will want to eat pizza their whole lives), but at least that's my contribution to this conversation.

Specifically, I want to talk about the recent leaks that point to Remielle being a special ether anomaly agent.

I've read several comments about how strange or disappointing it is that the first "Voidhunter" of patch 3.x doesn't have the new mechanics. Personally, I also expected Remielle to be a special Wind element agent and perhaps a support (merely because I want to see variety), but to be fair, I think what the devs want to do is demonstrate that they learned from their mistakes.

I saw this argument in a video before and I feel it has very good reasoning: In patch 2.0, we were introduced to Rupture characters, and the first character we had was Yixuan, a Voidhunter-level character, which directly or indirectly ended up affecting the sales and popularity of all the other Rupture characters that came after her: Yidhari, Banyue, and eventually Billy. The logic is very simple: "If you already have the best character of the new class, why would you want to go for the ones that come out if they're worse?" Especially considering that many people got Yixuan and many of those people invested quite a bit in her (W-Engine and Mindscapes).

Of course, there will still be people who want to pull for the other characters (I personally don't have Yixuan, but I do have Banyue and eventually Billy), but I also have to be honest: a large portion of the community focuses on the meta for their pulls.

In this case, I feel that the right solution (and what the devs seem to want to do) is to introduce the new mechanic with several regular characters before releasing the main course (possibly SunBringer), which is a better alternative to what happened with Yixuan: releasing the main course first and then giving you the appetizers.

But of course, all of this is a leak! And you never know if the devs will backtrack on what they want to do and Ramiel will end up being a Wind Element, but for now, things seem to be this way. I'll be keeping a close eye on how things develop.

This is something I think I've mentioned in a previous post or comment, and although the title is a question for you all, for me (personally) the answer is very obvious: Yes.

One of the most frequent complaints within the community, which even extends to other games (yes, I'm looking at you, Wuwa), is that characters only appear in the story of their respective patch and then disappear completely from the main plot to make way for the next character.

Gacha games always tend to have an inflated roster over time; it's only a matter of about two years before Zenless reaches 100 characters, which will always represent a major blow to the quality of the story writing if you have to incorporate each of those characters.

The solution that the devs of various gacha games have come up with is to give each character their respective 15 minutes of relevance and move on. Although, before going any further, I feel the devs have achieved a "decent" balance, considering the possibilities: Characters still appear periodically throughout the story and tend to participate quite a bit in events, as the Sons of Calydon did in this patch. It's not a huge amount, but it doesn't reach the "pull and dump" level of Wuwa. A recurring cast helps alleviate this issue. Even though we're constantly meeting new characters, we always have a few who stay with us, providing familiarity, trust, and continuity.

A good example of this in another Hoyoverse game would be the Astral Express from HSR. We meet them from minute one of the game, and they remain with us throughout the story—in my opinion, a very good decision on their part.

That's why I've finally gotten to the point I wanted to talk: Knowing that Billy and Cissia might be joining us in Roscaelifer (which would mean at least four consecutive patches with Cissia in the main story) gives me hope that ZZZ is trying to create a recurring cast, or at least one that will be with us for a good while!

Cissia is easily one of the top three most charismatic characters ZZZ has created, and in true Burnice style, she stands out more for her personality than her looks.

Billy is also one of the funniest characters in the game. We've known him since the beginning, and his chemistry with Cissia has been my favorite part of the last few patches.

Of course, I still have my doubts:

"Is it too late to create a recurring cast?" "Will some people be upset about it?" "Maybe they'll just stick around for another patch and that's it"

But even so, I want to allow myself the hope that the devs will actually manage to meet my expectations for the story. The last few patches have been very good, without going so far as to call them "masterpieces" or "the biggest cancer."

Knowing that Ramiel will most likely arrive in patch 3.1 (which, judging by the leaks, is already confirmed), i had a question: What class will she be?

If we assume that Voidhunters should be DPS, all DPS classes are already covered, and I feel that repeating any at this point would cause them to cannibalize each other. I mean, if Ramiel ends up being something like Anomaly Wind, it's 100% certain that she'll be better than Miyabi in almost every aspect, except for certain bosses like Bringer (and he hasn't been back to DA in a while) "Why?" Simply because of novelty and because Ramiel wouldn't have the anti-shill that Miyabi has.

Naturally, it's expected that Voidhunters will be top tier in their respective classes. Everyone expected Ye Shunguang to be the best attacker, but what would the situation be like if two Voidhunters had to compete against each other?

The most logical thing would be to release one Voidhunter per class. Specifically, I think Ramiel would be a perfect fit as a Support, but of course, she also has her problems:

- The best-selling classes are almost always DPS, and that's what Hoyoverse ultimately wants. You think they could sell a Voidhunter Defender to a Lot of people, for example?

- Also, due to the nature of Voidhunters being very "General" (so that they appeal to most people), and if she's a Support, Ramiel will very likely end up being the best generalist Support by far in the entire game, and you know how the balance situation has been lately.

I feel there are only two good possible scenarios: The Zenless team manages to ensure that Ramiel doesn't overshadow the other Voidhunter of her same class, or Ramiel is a Support or Stunner.