u/KnifeRingPvP

1. By the way, Gwen can easily keep the portal open With the help of magic, that is, to tear the whole space between the worlds with her magic. Аnd this is not surprising, depending on what magic means and the fact that it permeates the whole of nature.

Mana

2. Heatblast is literally a LIVING fire, that is, its stones/Magma is the shell that supports its shape, especially when it gets wet. It can be assumed that without the shell, it will be like a furious uncontrollable supernova fire.

They also live peacefully in the sun, which can easily reach more than 100,000 degrees or more.

3. Ripjaws can shoot water like a dolphin. (That's all you were talking about, so I changed it)

4. Chromestone can absorb energy and create Energy Fields from them, completely trapping opponents in them.

5. The ghost is able to shrink. And also in ben10 there are spirits very reminiscent of a Ghostly Freak and can drive a car and be a motor instead. maybe he manipulated them with Telekinesis like Zs'Skayr in the OV.

6. Kickin Hawk and Liam are equal in strength, which proves that Kikin Hawk is not a hybrid of Humangosaurus and Liam, but just one of the species of Liam's race.

7. By the way, Ben10 can easily become more than 100 Echo-Echo Ultimates at once if they all click on the ultimate transformation at once..💀

8. Ben's teacher talks about the energy that surrounds them in the world, it's a clear reference to mana, which is everywhere!

Ben was also able to calmly break a beam that held at least 1,000 kilograms of water.

Ben's teacher, who is about 50-70 years old, also calmly does this. The old people in ben10 are clearly stronger than us.

9. Kevin can absorb earth and completely replace his body with earth and be completely immune to PHYSICAL Attacks. Kevin can also manipulate his land by literally attacking it. Kevin can combine METAL/EARTH attacks and be completely immune to any physical attacks.

That's all for now.

​

---

"Big Tick Durability Debunk"

In this post, I'm not going to claim that there is only one possible interpretation of this scene. My goal is to show that the video does not actually debunk Big Tick's feat—it simply replaces one interpretation with another without proving that its interpretation is correct.

Video

---

Part 1. Breaking Down the Video's Arguments

"The planet was already falling apart."

Yes.

But that, by itself, does not debunk the durability feat.

Nobody is denying that the planet had already become unstable and was breaking apart after losing its core energy.

The real question is different.

How much of that energy did Big Tick actually take?

The author immediately makes a logical leap:

> The planet was already breaking apart → therefore Big Tick didn't tank anything.

But that conclusion does not follow from what is actually shown.

---

"We never saw Big Tick inside the planet."

This is also an assumption.

It's true that we never see the entire sequence continuously.

But the absence of a scene is not proof that the event never happened.

The author effectively replaces:

> "It wasn't shown."

with

> "It definitely didn't happen."

Those are two completely different claims.

---

"Let's use the lowest possible interpretation."

A lowball is a perfectly valid scaling method.

The problem begins when one possible interpretation is presented as the only correct one.

If you're intentionally using the lowest interpretation, you can't then conclude that every alternative interpretation is automatically wrong.

---

"Canonbolt breaks the armor from the outside."

Yes.

That's exactly what happens.

But that doesn't answer the main question.

What happens to Big Tick after the armor breaks?

The video simply skips over that part.

---

"Canonbolt only survived the internal explosion."

Even if we accept that interpretation, another question still remains.

What evidence is there that the internal detonation was insignificant?

The canon never states that.

So once again, that is simply an assumption.

---

The Main Problem With the Video

Almost the entire debunk follows the same pattern.

It turns

> "It wasn't shown."

into

> "Therefore it definitely didn't happen."

But the absence of direct confirmation is not evidence of the opposite.

---

Part 2. The Main Question the Video Never Answers

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the video's interpretation is correct.

Let's assume Big Tick didn't tank the entire planetary explosion.

Let's assume he only received part of the energy.

Fine.

But then another question appears—one that the video never answers.

Where did his velocity come from?

The episode states that Canonbolt's planet was destroyed last week.

Using the most conservative assumption—that the next destination was simply the nearest star system outside the Solar System (approximately 4.2 light-years away)—we get:

Distance:

≈3.974 × 10¹⁶ m

Time:

7 days = 604,800 seconds

Speed:

v = d / t

v = 3.974 × 10¹⁶ / 604,800

v ≈ 6.57 × 10¹⁰ m/s

≈219 times the speed of light

That is already an enormous velocity.

Now another question appears.

What actually gave Big Tick that momentum?

The canon never shows:

• engines;

• propulsion;

• warp travel;

• self-acceleration;

• the ability to fly.

The only major event before that journey is the destruction of the planet.

If you reject the planetary explosion as the source of that momentum, then another mechanism shown or implied by the canon needs to be provided.

At the moment, no such mechanism exists.

---

Now let's examine both possible interpretations.

Interpretation 1 — Big Tick never slowed down.

If we accept this interpretation, then the following happens.

Big Tick acquires interstellar velocity.

He then collides with Earth.

Therefore, he must withstand the effects associated with carrying that momentum into the collision.

Since real physics no longer applies above the speed of light, we use the most conservative relativistic lower bound.

Not 219c.

Instead,

v = 0.999999999999c

This is the minimum relativistic speed that can honestly be used for calculation.

Now let's use the absolute lowball mass.

Only 1,000 kg (1 metric ton).

Even though Big Tick is obviously much heavier.

Using the relativistic equation:

KE = (γ − 1)mc²

We obtain:

Minimum kinetic energy:

≈6.36 × 10²² J

And that's assuming a mass of only one metric ton.

If the mass is larger, the energy increases linearly.

10 tons:

≈6.36 × 10²³ J

100 tons:

≈6.36 × 10²⁴ J

1000 tons:

≈6.36 × 10²⁵ J

So even this calculation is an extremely conservative lower bound.

---

"But humans reacted to him."

That is not automatically a refutation.

There are at least two possible interpretations.

The first is that it's simply a narrative convention.

Scenes like this exist throughout fiction.

The second is that Ben 10 has repeatedly shown humans and other characters reacting to attacks visually presented as lasers or light-like energy.

Therefore, human reactions alone do not prove that Big Tick must have been moving slowly.

---

"But Earth wasn't destroyed."

That again assumes Ben 10 must always follow real-world impact physics.

However, the series regularly shows situations where environmental destruction is far lower than what real physics would predict.

That is precisely why AP vs DC is constantly discussed in Ben 10 scaling.

I'm not saying AP ≠ DC automatically explains everything.

But claiming that AP ≠ DC absolutely cannot apply here also requires evidence.

The mere fact that Earth survived does not automatically prove the collision had low energy.

---

Interpretation 2 — Big Tick somehow slowed down.

Fine.

Let's assume that's true.

Then another question immediately appears.

How?

Where is it shown that Big Tick can decelerate?

Where is it shown that he can control his velocity?

Where is it shown that he can fly?

Nowhere.

In fact, we see the exact opposite.

He simply falls.

He doesn't hover.

He doesn't maneuver.

He doesn't perform a controlled landing.

He simply crashes into Earth and leaves a crater.

Furthermore, after the collision he is visibly damaged.

If he truly had complete control over his speed, one would expect a much softer landing.

Therefore,

> "He definitely slowed down."

remains nothing more than a hypothesis.

It is not directly supported by what is shown.

---

Even if he really did slow down...

Let's assume he somehow lost most of his speed.

That still doesn't answer the main question.

What gave him the original momentum in the first place?

If a creature that cannot fly and has no visible propulsion crossed interstellar distances, then the source of that momentum must itself have possessed enormous energy.

This is where the alternative interpretation runs into its biggest problem.

If you reject the destruction of the planet as the source of that momentum, then another canonical mechanism must be presented.

The video never provides one.

---

Conclusion

In my opinion, the main problem with the video is that it doesn't actually debunk Big Tick's feat.

Instead, it replaces one interpretation with another.

The author assumes Big Tick slowed down.

Assumes he only received a small fraction of the energy.

Assumes a braking mechanism exists.

But none of those assumptions are directly supported by the canon.

Meanwhile, the alternative interpretation—that the destruction of the planet provided Big Tick with his interstellar momentum, and that the subsequent collision demonstrates extremely high durability—remains equally valid.

Furthermore, even when using the most conservative relativistic lower bound (0.999999999999c) and assuming a mass of only 1 metric ton, the result is approximately 6.36 × 10²² joules. That is merely a lower bound, since Big Tick's actual mass is almost certainly much greater.

For that reason, I don't think this feat can simply be dismissed. Even under the most conservative assumptions, the minimum energy remains extraordinarily high, and any less conservative assumptions would only increase the final estimate.

---

Additional Responses

"You're just assuming the speed."

No.

My calculation is not based on saying, "Big Tick was moving fast because I said so."

It is based on two premises:

the travel timeframe explicitly stated in the episode ("last week");

the distance that had to be traveled.

From there, it simply applies the standard equation:

v = d / t

If you disagree with the calculation, then you need to explain which premise is incorrect.

For example:

Is the travel distance wrong?

Is the stated timeframe wrong?

Or is the speed calculation itself mathematically incorrect?

Simply saying,

> "That shouldn't happen because of the narrative."

is not a rebuttal to the calculation.

---

"The Earth wasn't destroyed, therefore the feat can't be planetary."

That's circular reasoning.

The argument is essentially:

> Earth wasn't destroyed → therefore the impact energy must have been low.

But that's exactly the point that still needs to be demonstrated.

This argument assumes from the start that Destructive Capacity must always equal Attack Potency.

The distinction between AP and DC exists precisely because fiction often separates the two.

I'm not claiming that AP ≠ DC automatically explains every scene.

However, using the lack of large-scale destruction as the sole proof that the impact had low AP is equally unjustified.

---

"Gwen reacted, therefore Big Tick wasn't FTL."

This conflates several completely different speed statistics.

Power scaling generally distinguishes between:

Travel Speed

Combat Speed

Reaction Speed

These are not automatically the same.

Even if we accept that Gwen reacted to Big Tick's landing, that alone does not prove that his interstellar travel speed was identical to his combat speed or to his speed immediately before impact.

Furthermore, Ben 10 has repeatedly shown humans and other characters reacting to attacks visually portrayed as lasers or light-like energy.

Therefore, the idea that characters in Ben 10 possess unusually high reaction speeds already has support within the series itself.

---

"You're assuming he impacted Earth at full travel speed."

No.

I'm intentionally presenting two separate interpretations.

Interpretation 1

He retained most of his travel speed.

If that's the case, then the collision represents an extraordinarily high durability feat that can at least be conservatively estimated using the relativistic lower bound.

Interpretation 2

He somehow slowed down before impact.

If that's your position, then you need to demonstrate:

how he slowed down;

where this ability is shown;

what mechanism allowed him to do so.

At present, the canon provides no such explanation.

Therefore,

> "He definitely slowed down."

remains a hypothesis, not an established fact.

---

The Burden of Rebuttal

To refute my calculation, it isn't enough to simply say,

> "I don't think that's how the story works."

You need to identify which part of the argument is actually incorrect.

For example:

the distance was calculated incorrectly;

the timeframe is wrong;

the mathematical calculation contains an error;

or the canon explicitly establishes a different method of interstellar travel.

Until one of those points is demonstrated, the calculation remains, at the very least, a valid interpretation of the available evidence.

---

Common misconception: "If it was that fast/powerful, Earth would've been destroyed."

This argument doesn't work in Ben 10 because the series consistently separates Attack Potency (AP) from Destructive Capacity (DC).

A good example is Way Big.

Way Big generated enough force to launch the Garbage Monster from Earth into space using a massive tornado. If real-world physics were applied consistently, the amount of energy and momentum involved should have caused catastrophic damage to the planet itself. Yet... it didn't.

The same logic applies to many other Ben 10 feats. The series repeatedly shows characters producing enormous amounts of energy or speed without proportional environmental destruction.

So saying:

> "If Big Tick was moving that fast, Earth would've been destroyed."

isn't evidence against the calculation. It's simply assuming that Ben 10 always follows real-world collateral damage, when the series repeatedly shows that it doesn't.

Unless you also reject feats like Way Big's for the exact same reason, this becomes a double standard.

---

Final Point

As a result, the video doesn't debunk the planetary feat.

It simply presents an alternative interpretation that itself requires additional unsupported assumptions.

...

​

REDESIGNED ANALYSIS

XLR8 vs Way Big — Mass, Speed, Reflexes and the Main Proof (Don't pay attention to these words!!! I wrote this post to prove the speed of XLR8!! And not to compare who is stronger)

All values are rounded for readability. Every calculation can be independently verified.

---

PART 1. WAY BIG'S MASS

Note

This calculation is not used to determine Way Big's or XLR8's speed.

It is included only for future calculations involving strength, kinetic energy, momentum, and other physical quantities so that Way Big's mass is established beforehand instead of using arbitrary values later.

---

1.1. Base Model

As a baseline, I use a human who is 2 meters tall and weighs 200 kilograms.

A very muscular physique is intentionally chosen to avoid underestimating Way Big's final mass.

---

1.2. Growth Factor

Way Big's height:

100 meters

100 / 2 = 50

---

1.3. Square-Cube Law

50³ = 125,000

---

1.4. Body Mass

200 kg × 125,000

= 25,000,000 kg

= 25,000 metric tons

---

1.5. Organic Armor Plates

Way Big's body is covered by massive organic armor plates.

Even if they only increase his total mass by approximately 35%:

25,000 × 1.35

= 33,750 metric tons

---

Result

Way Big's mass is approximately 33,750 metric tons.

---

PART 2. THE CONQUEST RAY

Alien Force Season 1 Episode 13

Emperor Milleous orders the Conquest Ray to fire at Pluto.

The beam completely destroys Pluto.

---

2.1. Confirmation That It Is the Same Conquest Ray

One of Ben 10's creators, Duncan Rouleau, confirmed that the beam reflected by Way Big in Omniverse is the same Conquest Ray that destroyed Pluto in Alien Force.

Therefore, unless contradicted by canon, both beams are treated as the same weapon with the same characteristics.

---

2.2. Distance

The calculation uses real astronomical data.

The maximum distance between Earth and Pluto is:

7.48 × 10¹² meters.

These values come from real astronomical measurements because the series never provides an official distance.

Using real astronomical distances is standard practice in fictional calculations whenever no in-universe value is available.

---

2.3. Travel Time

Frame-by-frame count:

594 frames

25 FPS

594 / 25

= 23.76 seconds

There are no time skips, scene transitions indicating elapsed time, or interruptions between the beam being fired and Pluto's destruction.

Therefore, the sequence is treated as continuous.

---

2.4. Beam Speed

V = 7.48 × 10¹² / 23.76

≈ 3.15 × 10¹¹ m/s

≈ 1050 times the speed of light

Result:

Conquest Ray ≈ 1050c (MFTL+)

---

PART 3. WAY BIG REACTS TO THE CONQUEST RAY

Omniverse Season 3 Episode 7

Way Big reacts to the same Conquest Ray.

Before the beam reaches him, he successfully:

• notices the incoming attack;

• raises both hands;

• charges his Cosmic Ray;

• fires his own beam;

• accurately intercepts the Conquest Ray;

• completely overpowers the same beam that previously destroyed Pluto.

These are multiple consecutive actions completed before impact.

If the Conquest Ray travels at approximately 1050c, Way Big's combat reactions scale to the same level.

Result:

Way Big's combat reactions = MFTL+

---

PART 4. WAY BIG'S MOVEMENT SPEED

Ultimate Alien Season 3 Episode 8

Way Big runs around the Trash Titan.

The resulting vortex launches the monster toward the Sun.

According to the existing calculation, the monster travels at approximately 30 times the speed of light.

This feat represents movement speed only.

Result:

Way Big's movement speed ≈ 30c.

His combat reactions are significantly higher.

---

PART 5. ALL ADULT TO'KUSTARS ARE COMPARABLE

During Way Big's fight against another adult To'kustar, neither side demonstrates any overwhelming advantage.

Both display comparable:

• strength;

• durability;

• speed;

• reactions.

Therefore, adult To'kustars possess comparable physical statistics.

---

PART 6. XLR8

XLR8 begins running around an adult To'kustar.

During his movement, the To'kustar fails to:

• initiate a dodge;

• raise its arms;

• turn its head;

• perform any defensive action.

XLR8 completely finishes his run and creates the vortex before the To'kustar can even begin reacting.

This demonstrates that XLR8's running speed itself exceeds the speed required for an adult To'kustar to begin reacting.

Since adult To'kustars scale to Way Big, whose combat reactions are MFTL+, XLR8's movement speed also scales above that level.

---

PART 7. LOGICAL CHAIN

1.

The Conquest Ray destroys Pluto.

↓

2.

The Conquest Ray travels at approximately 1050c.

↓

3.

Way Big reacts to the same Conquest Ray.

↓

4.

Way Big's combat reactions are MFTL+.

↓

5.

Adult To'kustars possess comparable reaction speed.

↓

6.

XLR8 completely outruns an adult To'kustar before it can even begin reacting.

↓

7.

Therefore, XLR8's movement speed exceeds the speed required to bypass the reactions of an adult To'kustar with MFTL+ combat reactions.

---

FINAL TABLE

Way Big

Height:

100 meters

Mass:

33,750 metric tons

Movement Speed:

≈30c

Combat Reactions:

MFTL+ (≈1050c)

---

XLR8

Mass:

≈80 kg

Movement Speed:

Higher than the speed required to bypass an adult To'kustar's reactions.

Combat Reactions:

At least comparable to his own movement speed.

---

FINAL CONCLUSION

1. Way Big weighs approximately 33,750 metric tons.

2. The Conquest Ray that destroyed Pluto travels at roughly 1050 times the speed of light.

3. Duncan Rouleau confirmed that the beam reflected by Way Big in Omniverse is the same Conquest Ray.

4. Way Big performs multiple consecutive actions and completely overpowers the Conquest Ray before impact, scaling his combat reactions to MFTL+.

5. Adult To'kustars possess comparable physical characteristics.

6. XLR8 completely circles an adult To'kustar before it can even begin reacting.

Therefore, if the Conquest Ray calculation is accepted, XLR8's movement speed scales above the MFTL+ level (above approximately 1050 times the speed of light).

(https://imgur.com/nCnDxce)

"Raised To'kustars"

(https://imgur.com/Ho2fLKy)

"Faster than lasers"

Proofs that the temperature of the HEATBLAST Maybe a lot it can be much braver than that of a supernova.

​

\---

FULL BREAKDOWN: Vilgax's Impact → Diamond → Ultimate Swampfire → Regular Swampfire → Heatblast → Comparison with a Supernova

\---

NOTATIONS

· T\_ult\_swampfire = temperature of Ultimate Swampfire

· T\_swampfire = temperature of Regular Swampfire

· T\_heatblast = temperature of Heatblast

· Δt = impact time

· A = contact area

· P = power

· σ = sigma (Stefan–Boltzmann constant)

· E = energy

· ΔT = temperature difference

\---

PART 1. WHY VILGAX'S IMPACT HAS A TEMPERATURE OF 137 BILLION K

1.1 Vilgax's Power

In the episode Ben 10: Alien Force, Vilgax defeated 10 Guardians of the Cosmos and absorbed their powers.

Each Guardian ≈ 1 planet (can destroy or subjugate Earth).

Vilgax after absorption = 10 planets

1.2 Impact Energy

Destroying 1 planet (like Earth) requires energy equal to its gravitational binding energy:

E₁ = 2 × 10³² J

For 10 planets:

E = 10 × 2 × 10³² = 2 × 10³³ J

1.3 Conversion of Energy into Heat

When Vilgax strikes Diamondhead's diamond, all the kinetic energy of the impact turns into heat at the point of contact during the impact time.

Impact time: Δt = 0.001 s (standard for collision physics)

Contact area: A = 0.1 m² (Vilgax's fist on the diamond)

1.4 Impact Power

P = E / Δt = 2 × 10³³ / 0.001 = 2 × 10³⁶ Watts

For comparison: the entire Sun emits \~3.8 × 10²⁶ Watts. Vilgax's impact power is 5 billion times greater than the Sun's radiation power.

1.5 Stefan–Boltzmann Law

This law connects a body's temperature with its thermal radiation:

P = σ × A × T⁴

where σ = 5.67 × 10⁻⁸ W/(m²·K⁴) — the Stefan–Boltzmann constant

1.6 Calculating the Temperature

T⁴ = P / (σ × A) = 2 × 10³⁶ / (5.67 × 10⁻⁸ × 0.1) = 2 × 10³⁶ / (5.67 × 10⁻⁹) ≈ 3.53 × 10⁴⁴

T = (3.53 × 10⁴⁴)¹⁴ ≈ 1.37 × 10¹¹ K

RESULT: Vilgax's impact temperature = 137 billion Kelvin (1.37 × 10¹¹ K)

1.7 Comparison with the Sun's Core

The Sun's core has a temperature of 1.5 × 10⁷ K (15 million K)

Vilgax's impact is 9,133 times hotter than the Sun's core

\---

PART 2. DIAMONDHEAD'S DIAMOND

2.1 What Happened

Diamondhead's diamond body (or his constructs) withstood Vilgax's direct impact without:

· cracks

· melting

· vaporization

· any destruction

2.2 Conclusion

Diamond heat resistance ≥ 1.37 × 10¹¹ K

Diamond melting point ≥ 1.37 × 10¹¹ K

This is the key point: the diamond can exist at a temperature of 137 billion K and remain intact.

\---

PART 3. ULTIMATE SWAMPFIRE

3.1 The Scene

In the episode "Ben 10: Ultimate Alien Force" (Season 3, Episode 7, 11:35), Ultimate Swampfire directs his flame at Diamondhead's diamond.

The diamond CRACKS.

3.2 Why This Matters

If Ultimate Swampfire's temperature were equal to 137 billion K (like Vilgax's impact), the diamond would not crack because it has already proven it can withstand that temperature without destruction.

3.3 The Physics of Cracking

For a material to crack (not just heat up), thermal shock is needed — a sharp temperature difference between the surface and inner layers. This creates internal stresses that tear apart the crystal lattice.

For thermal shock, the flame temperature must be HIGHER than the material's temperature. The greater the difference, the stronger the shock.

3.4 Conclusion

T\_ult\_swampfire > 1.37 × 10¹¹ K

3.5 Ultimate Swampfire's Temperature Range

Minimum: just above 137 billion K

Maximum (estimate for clarity): 150 billion K

T\_ult\_swampfire = 1.37 \~ 1.50 × 10¹¹ K (137 \~ 150 billion K)

\---

PART 4. ULTIMATE SWAMPFIRE IS 3 TIMES STRONGER THAN REGULAR SWAMPFIRE

4.1 Stefan–Boltzmann Law (again)

Thermal radiation power is proportional to temperature to the fourth power:

P \~ T⁴

This means that a small change in temperature gives a huge change in power.

4.2 Calculation

By canon: P\_ult / P\_swampfire = 3

T\_ult\_swampfire⁴ / T\_swampfire⁴ = 3

T\_ult\_swampfire / T\_swampfire = ⁴√3

⁴√3 ≈ 1.316

4.3 What This Means

T\_swampfire = T\_ult\_swampfire / 1.316

Regular Swampfire's temperature is ≈ 76% of Ultimate Swampfire's temperature (1 / 1.316 = 0.76)

NOT 33%!

This is a common mistake: many think that if something is 3 times weaker in power, its temperature is 3 times lower. But because of the T⁴ law, temperature drops much more slowly.

\---

PART 5. REGULAR SWAMPFIRE'S TEMPERATURE

5.1 Calculation

Minimum: take T\_ult\_swampfire = 1.37 × 10¹¹ K

T\_swampfire\_min = 1.37 × 10¹¹ / 1.316 ≈ 1.04 × 10¹¹ K (104 billion K)

Maximum: take T\_ult\_swampfire = 1.50 × 10¹¹ K

T\_swampfire\_max = 1.50 × 10¹¹ / 1.316 ≈ 1.14 × 10¹¹ K (114 billion K)

5.2 Range

T\_swampfire = 1.04 \~ 1.14 × 10¹¹ K (104 \~ 114 billion K)

\---

PART 6. HEATBLAST

6.1 Who He Is

Heatblast is an alien from the Pyronite species. By canon, he is stronger than Regular Swampfire, but this is not significant for the calculations.

6.2 Limitation

Heatblast never in canon melted or cracked Diamondhead's diamond. Therefore, his temperature cannot exceed the threshold set by Ultimate Swampfire.

6.3 Conclusion

T\_heatblast ≈ T\_swampfire = 1.04 \~ 1.14 × 10¹¹ K (104 \~ 114 billion K)

\---

PART 7. COMPARISON WITH A SUPERNOVA AND OTHER STARS

7.1 Real Temperatures of Celestial Objects

Object Temperature (K) Hotter than Sun's core (times)

Red dwarf core (Proxima Centauri) \~1 × 10⁷ \~0.67

Sun's core 1.5 × 10⁷ 1

Blue giant core (Regulus) \~3 × 10⁷ \~2

Most massive giant core (R136a1) \~5 × 10⁷ \~3.33

Supernova core \~1 × 10¹⁰ (10 billion) \~666

Ultimate Swampfire 1.37 \~ 1.50 × 10¹¹ 9,133 \~ 10,000

Regular Swampfire / Heatblast 1.04 \~ 1.14 × 10¹¹ 6,933 \~ 7,600

7.2 Comparison of Ultimate Swampfire with a Supernova

T\_ult\_swampfire = 1.37 \~ 1.50 × 10¹¹ K

T\_supernova = 1 × 10¹⁰ K

T\_ult\_swampfire / T\_supernova = 13.7 \~ 15

Ultimate Swampfire is 13.7 \~ 15 times hotter than a supernova's core

7.3 Comparison of Heatblast with a Supernova

T\_heatblast = 1.04 \~ 1.14 × 10¹¹ K

T\_heatblast / T\_supernova = 10.4 \~ 11.4

Heatblast is 10.4 \~ 11.4 times hotter than a supernova's core

7.4 What Is a Supernova

A supernova is the explosion of a star at the end of its life. In a few seconds, it releases more energy than the Sun will over its entire 10-billion-year lifetime. Its core temperature reaches \~10 billion Kelvin.

Both Ultimate Swampfire and Heatblast have temperatures higher than a supernova's core.

\---

PART 8. FINAL TABLE (COMPLETE)

Character / Object Temperature (K) Hotter than Sun's core (times) Hotter than R136a1 core (times) Hotter than supernova core (times)

Sun's core 1.5 × 10⁷ 1 0.3 0.0015

R136a1 core 5 × 10⁷ 3.33 1 0.005

Supernova core 1 × 10¹⁰ 666 200 1

Ultimate Swampfire 1.37 \~ 1.50 × 10¹¹ 9,133 \~ 10,000 2,740 \~ 3,000 13.7 \~ 15

Regular Swampfire 1.04 \~ 1.14 × 10¹¹ 6,933 \~ 7,600 2,080 \~ 2,280 10.4 \~ 11.4

Heatblast 1.04 \~ 1.14 × 10¹¹ 6,933 \~ 7,600 2,080 \~ 2,280 10.4 \~ 11.4

\---

PART 9. CHECKING THE T⁴ LAW

Take average values:

T\_ult\_swampfire ≈ 1.435 × 10¹¹ K

T\_swampfire ≈ 1.09 × 10¹¹ K

T\_ult\_swampfire / T\_swampfire = 1.435 / 1.09 ≈ 1.316

1.316⁴ = (1.316²)² = 1.732² = 3.00

Everything checks out. Ultimate Swampfire is exactly 3 times more powerful than Regular Swampfire.

\---

PART 10. MAIN CONCLUSION

1. Vilgax's impact = 1.37 × 10¹¹ K (137 billion K) — calculated through impact physics and the Stefan–Boltzmann law.

2. Diamondhead's diamond withstood this impact → its heat resistance ≥ 137 billion K.

3. Ultimate Swampfire (Ultimate Alien Force 3x07 11:35) cracked this diamond with his flame → his temperature is above the threshold: T\_ult\_swampfire = 137 \~ 150 billion K.

4. Ultimate Swampfire is 3 times more powerful than Regular Swampfire by canon. From the P \~ T⁴ law: T\_swampfire = T\_ult\_swampfire / 1.316 = 104 \~ 114 billion K.

5. Heatblast is stronger than Regular Swampfire, but not significantly → his temperature is 104 \~ 114 billion K.

6. Comparison with a supernova:

   · Ultimate Swampfire is 13.7 \~ 15 times hotter than a supernova's core

   · Heatblast is 10.4 \~ 11.4 times hotter than a supernova's core

7. Comparison with the Sun's core:

   · Ultimate Swampfire is 9,133 \~ 10,000 times hotter

   · Heatblast is 6,933 \~ 7,600 times hotter

8. They are exactly 3 times weaker than Ultimate Swampfire in power — not because their temperature is 3 times lower, but because of the non-linear T⁴ law.

\---

| The entropy pump |

Planetary vilgax | Classic | Scaling https://www.reddit.com/r/Ben10PowerScaling/s/BWjo8E6I7n

Classic-H5-A | Classic | Scaling https://www.reddit.com/r/Ben10PowerScaling/s/PSW2NYXHs1

Vilgax | VS Battles Wiki | Fandom https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Vilgax?oldid=1503743

I wrote this a couple of days ago, so I'm trying to figure out if everything is correct. And did I misrepresent the information? If this is not true, please correct it or explain why it is not so.

FULL COSMOLOGY ANALYSIS: WHY ALIEN X IS HIGH 1-A

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INTRODUCTION

This is my complete analysis proving that Alien X and his species, the Celestialsapiens, exist at a High 1-A (High Outerverse level) according to the VS Battles Wiki scale. I'm using only canon from the show, official comics, Word of God statements from the creators, and real physics/mathematics.

No headcanon. No wank. Just pure facts.

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##1: THE BASE COSMOLOGY OF BEN 10

1.1. The 26 Spatial Dimensions

In the episode "Busy Box" (Ben 10: Alien Force), the Cosmic Mom (a Naljian) tells Ben:

"You only perceive 3 dimensions, is that right? ... Only 26 [dimensions] that matter."

What this proves:

· The Ben 10 universe contains at least 26 spatial dimensions.

· The word "only" is key here—it means there are more than 26.

· These are full-sized dimensions (not compactified), because the Timestream is infinite.

Conclusion: The Ben 10 universe contains at least 26 full spatial dimensions (1-B).

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1.2. The "Incalculable Dimension" = Infinite Spatial Dimensions

In the canon comic "Ghost Ship" (Ben 10: Omniverse), beings from another dimension describe their reality as:

"We are beings from an incalculable dimension that defies the limits of space and time. A glorious universe unfathomable to a primitive mind such as yours."

Why this is important:

1. "Incalculable" means INFINITE.

   · They use this word specifically to describe their reality to 3D beings like Ben.

   · In mathematics, "incalculable" means uncountable infinity (continuum, 2^ℵ₀).

   · This is not "a lot"—this is TRUE INFINITY.

2. "Defies the limits of space and time"

   · Their dimension exists BEYOND normal 4D spacetime.

   · It's not just "higher"—it's transcendent to space and time.

3. "Unfathomable to a primitive mind"

   · They explicitly state that their reality cannot be perceived by beings within spacetime.

   · This includes ANY beings bound by spacetime—including 5D beings like the Contumelia.

Conclusion: There is a structure in Ben 10 cosmology with infinite spatial dimensions (∞D).

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1.3. The Infinite Timestream

Professor Paradox describes the Timestream as a tree:

· Trunk: The Prime Timeline

· Branches: Alternate timelines

· Branching happens ad infinitum

What this proves:

· There are uncountably infinite timelines.

· This corresponds to a Type III Multiverse (MWI) in Tegmark's classification.

· The Timestream contains an infinite number of 4D spatiotemporal continuums.

Conclusion: The Timestream = High 1-B (at minimum).

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1.4. The Annihilarrgh Universe

The Annihilarrgh is a device that creates or destroys an Annihilarrgh Universe.

What the Annihilarrgh Universe contains:

· 26+ spatial dimensions

· The infinite Timestream

· All dimensions (Null Void, Ledgerdomain, Dimension of Bezel, etc.)

· Unique physical laws for each such universe

Important: The Annihilarrgh creates a specific Annihilarrgh Universe, NOT the entire "verse" of Ben 10. This is just ONE structure in the cosmology.

Conclusion: The Annihilarrgh Universe = 1-B (26D).

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1.5. The Type IV Multiverse

Professor Paradox talks about a neighboring universe:

"That is the next universe over. I don't like it at all, the physics are terribly counterintuitive."

What this proves:

· Different Annihilarrgh Universes have different physical laws.

· The entire collection of Annihilarrgh Universes = a Type IV Multiverse (Tegmark's classification).

· A Type IV Multiverse contains all mathematically possible structures.

Conclusion: The full collection of Annihilarrgh Universes = Low 1-A (at minimum).

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##2: WHERE CELESTIALSAPIENS STAND

2.1. The Contumelian Barrier = 26D

The Contumelia are 5D beings (Low 1-C). Their defensive barrier withstood the Annihilarrgh's explosion.

Logic chain:

1. The Annihilarrgh creates/destroys a 26D Annihilarrgh Universe.

2. The barrier survived that explosion → the barrier has 26D durability (1-B).

Conclusion: The Contumelian barrier = 1-B (26D).

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2.2. Alien X Pierced the 26D Barrier With a FRAGMENT of His DNA

Alien X didn't even try—he used a single fragment of his DNA to cut through the 26D barrier.

Logic chain:

1. The barrier = 26D (1-B).

2. Alien X pierced it with a DNA fragment → he is > 26D.

3. This means Alien X is at least High 1-B or Low 1-A.

Conclusion: Alien X > 26D.

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2.3. Celestialsapiens Rewrote the ENTIRE "VERSE" of Ben 10

Unlike the Annihilarrgh, which only works on a single universe, Celestialsapiens operate on the level of the entire "Verse" of Ben 10.

What Celestialsapiens rewrote:

· ALL Annihilarrgh Universes (each with its own physics and dimensions)

· The Space Beyond (the structure beyond all Annihilarrgh Universes)

· The ENTIRE infinite spatial reality (all the way up to ∞D)

· ALL levels of reality in Ben 10 cosmology

Important: They didn't "recreate" the Annihilarrgh Universe multiple times—they REWROTE the entire "Verse" in one go.

Conclusion: Celestialsapiens > the entire "Verse" of Ben 10.

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2.4. The Forge of Creation

The Forge of Creation is not just a place. It is the source of the greatest power in the universe, where thought itself becomes reality.

What characters say:

· Professor Paradox: "This is the source of the greatest power in the universe. A place where ideas become reality."

· Azmuth: "The Forge of Creation is where Celestialsapiens, like Alien X, are born."

· Professor Paradox: "Aggregor intends to absorb the powers of a newborn Celestialsapien. If he succeeds, he will become omnipotent."

· Professor Paradox: "It is surrounded by a chronal randomization barrier. It is out of sync with all time and, without the map of infinity, completely unreachable."

· Azmuth: "It's beyond your comprehension!"

What this proves:

· The Forge of Creation exists beyond time (out of sync with all time).

· Thought in the Forge becomes reality.

· Even Azmuth, the smartest character in the universe, says it's beyond understanding.

· It is the place where Celestialsapiens are born, and absorbing a newborn could make someone omnipotent.

Conclusion: The Forge of Creation is a structure that exists beyond space, time, and all dimensions. It operates on a level where thought = reality, and even the smartest beings in the universe cannot fully comprehend it. This places Celestialsapiens above the entire cosmology of Ben 10.

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2.5. R > F: Celestialsapiens as the Authors

Duncan Rouleau (creator of Ben 10) confirmed that all staff members who worked on the show canonically exist as Celestialsapiens.

What this means:

· Celestialsapiens are author entities.

· They are in a "Reality" (R) position relative to the "Fiction" (F)—the entire Ben 10 cosmology.

· This is R > F (Reality > Fiction)—the main criterion for 1-A (Outerverse) and above.

Additional proof:

· Celestialsapiens change the show's art style and voice actors.

· They perceive the entire "Verse" as fiction.

· They can rewrite the fundamental rules of reality.

Conclusion: Celestialsapiens are at an R > F level over the entire Ben 10 "Verse".

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##3: THE VS BATTLES WIKI SCALE

3.1. What Does High 1-A Mean?

High 1-A (High Outerverse level) is for beings who:

1. Transcend all spatiotemporal dimensions.

2. Exist beyond the concepts of space, time, and dimensionality.

3. Perceive the multiverse as fiction (R > F).

4. Can affect Type IV Multiverses (all mathematical structures).

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3.2. How Alien X Fits the High 1-A Criteria

•High 1-A Criteria How Alien X Meets It

Transcends all dimensions He exists beyond ∞D space and the 26D Annihilarrgh Universes

Beyond space and time The Forge of Creation is beyond all universes and The Space Beyond

R > F Celestialsapiens are the authors of the entire "Verse" (Word of God)

Affects Type IV Multiverses He can rewrite the entire "Verse", including all Annihilarrgh Universes with different physics

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##4: THE FINAL PROOF CHAIN?

# Proof Level What It Proves

1 Cosmic Mom: "Only 26 dimensions that matter" 1-B At least 26 spatial dimensions exist

2 "Incalculable dimension" from the Ghost Ship comic ∞D Infinite spatial dimensions exist, incomprehensible to beings in spacetime

3 Infinite Timestream (ad infinitum) High 1-B The Timestream contains uncountably infinite timelines

4 Contumelian barrier withstood the Annihilarrgh 1-B (26D) The barrier has 26D durability

5 Alien X pierced the 26D barrier with a DNA fragment 1-B Alien X > 26D

6 Different Annihilarrgh Universes have different physics Low 1-A The full collection = Type IV Multiverse

7 Celestialsapiens rewrote the entire "Verse" entire Verse They are above the entire cosmology

8 The Forge of Creation: thought = reality, beyond time everything They are beyond all levels of reality

9 Word of God: creators = Celestialsapiens R > F They perceive everything as fiction

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##5: FINAL VERDICT?

Alien X and Celestialsapiens are PURE High 1-A (High Outerverse level).

They exist beyond:

1. The 26 dimensions that "matter" (1-B)

2. Infinite spatial dimensions (∞D)

3. The 26D barrier they pierced with a DNA fragment

4. All Annihilarrgh Universes (which they can rewrite)

5. The Type IV Multiverse (all mathematical structures)

6. The Space Beyond

7. The ENTIRE "Verse" of Ben 10, which they rewrote and perceive as fiction

The Forge of Creation places them above all of this—because thought becomes reality there, and even Azmuth says it's beyond comprehension.

As stated on VS Battles Wiki:

"Alien X: At least outerverse level, likely High outerverse level (Above everything in 26 dimensions, it is compared to the scale of DC Comics with dimensions beyond infinity)."

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LET'S GO. This is my complete, definitive analysis. Every proof is in one system. No gaps, no contradictions—just pure canon and logic.

The whole basis is taken from these sources:

https://www.reddit.com/u/ABSOLUTEOMNIPOTENT/s/J9rLWZyUlC

https://www.reddit.com/r/Ben10PowerScaling/s/XuWaaKeHJz

26D

https://www.reddit.com/r/Ben10PowerScaling/s/QAa3sTqgkW

Multilared/all reality Ben 10

https://www.reddit.com/r/Ben10PowerScaling/s/HGFZ2MeNIU

Big-scale-Ben10

Also, if you have any more statements that Alien X is 1-А or more, then please drop it)

I'm not claiming, I just want to make sure of it...

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COMPLETE BREAKDOWN (FROM ME)

XLR8 vs WAY BIG — Mass, Speed, Reflexes, and the Main Proof

I round numbers for convenience, but all calculations can be verified.

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PART 1. WAY BIG'S MASS (REALISTIC HEIGHT 100 METERS)

1.1. Reference human

I take a bodybuilder who is 200 cm tall and weighs 200 kg.

1.2. Growth factor

100 m / 2 m = 50 times

1.3. Cube law

50³ = 125,000

1.4. Mass without plates

200 kg × 125,000 = 25,000,000 kg = 25,000 metric tons

1.5. The plates are an organic alloy, part of the body (+35%)

25,000 t × 0.35 = 8,750 t

1.6. Total mass

25,000 t + 8,750 t = 33,750 metric tons

Result: Way Big weighs almost 34 thousand tons.

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PART 2. THE CONQUEST RAY — TWO DIFFERENT EPISODES

2.1. Destruction of Pluto (Alien Force Season 1 Episode 13)

Emperor Milleous orders the Conquest Ray to fire at Pluto from a ship near Earth. The beam destroys the dwarf planet.

Beam speed calculation (fan analysis, high-end estimate):

· Distance from Earth to Pluto: up to 7.48 × 10¹² m (NASA data)

· Travel time frame-by-frame: 594 frames at 25 FPS = 23.76 seconds

V_beam = 7.48 × 10¹² m / 23.76 s ≈ 3.148 × 10¹¹ m/s

In multiples of lightspeed: ~1050×c (MFTL+).

2.2. Way Big reflects the beam (Omniverse Season 3 Episode 7)

In this episode, the Incursian ship with the same Conquest Ray is approximately 150 meters from Earth (the ship is hovering just above the city). The beam flies straight at Way Big, who is standing on the ground.

Way Big reacts a split second before impact, raises his hand, concentrates energy, and fires his own beam back. His beam splits the enemy's beam and continues toward the ship.

2.3. Why this proves MFTL+ reflexes

If the beam moves at 1050×c, then at a distance of 150 meters it covers that distance in ~0.0000000005 seconds (half a nanosecond). Way Big manages to:

· see the beam,

· react,

· raise his hand,

· concentrate energy,

· fire his own beam back,

· and hit the enemy beam, splitting it.

Conclusion: Way Big's combat reflexes are MFTL+, at least 1050×c.

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PART 3. THE GARBAGE TITAN EPISODE (ULTIMATE ALIEN SEASON 3 EPISODE 8)

3.1. What happened — in short

A giant garbage patch in the Pacific Ocean. An experiment with bacteria failed — the bacteria mutated, merged with the trash and created a living monster. It transformed into a humanoid giant (twice as tall as Way Big) and started attacking. Way Big couldn't destroy it because of its regeneration.

Solution: Way Big used his super speed — he ran on water around the monster, created a water vortex that sucked the monster in and threw it into space toward the Sun. The monster burned up.

3.2. The monster's mass

Over 14 years, 2.8 trillion tons of plastic accumulated. In humanoid form it couldn't keep all that mass — I take 1.4 trillion tons.

3.3. The monster's flight speed

Distance to the Sun: 1.5 × 10¹¹ m.

Travel time: 16.16 seconds.

V_Titan = 1.459 × 10¹¹ / 16.16 ≈ 9.03 × 10⁹ m/s

In multiples of lightspeed: ~30×c.

3.4. Way Big's speed in this episode

Way Big created the vortex by running around the monster. To accelerate an object to 30×c, he himself must have moved at a comparable speed.

Conclusion: ~30×c (FTL+).

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PART 4. ALL TO'KUSTARS ARE EQUAL

In the episode where Ben's Way Big fights a zombie To'kustar, they fight equally:

· same strength,

· same speed,

· same reflexes.

Conclusion: Any adult To'kustar (including the zombie) has MFTL+ reflexes (~1050×c). Ben's Way Big is the species standard.

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PART 5. XLR8 LIFTS A TO'KUSTAR

5.1. What happened

XLR8 runs around a To'kustar (mass 33,750 tons), creates a vortex, lifts it up and knocks it down.

Source (https://imgur.com/nCnDxce) — a frame proving that XLR8 lifted another To'kustar faster than it could react.

The To'kustar does not have time to react. It starts rising and falls without even understanding what happened.

5.2. The logical chain

1. Way Big's reflexes = MFTL+ (caught a beam from 150 m in a fraction of a nanosecond).

2. All To'kustars are equal in reflexes (zombie fight).

3. XLR8 lifted a To'kustar faster than it could react (proven by the source).

4. Therefore, XLR8 is faster than Way Big's reaction speed (MFTL+).

Numerically: even if Way Big's reaction is 1050×c, XLR8 is faster. How much faster — I don't know, but the fact remains.

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PART 6. FINAL TABLE

Parameter WAY BIG (To'kustar) XLR8 (Kineceleran)

Height 100 meters 1.5–1.8 m

Mass 33,750 tons (with alloy plates) ~80 kg

Reflexes MFTL+ (~1050×c) — caught beam from 150 m MFTL+ (>1050×c)

Travel speed ~30×c (Titan throw, UA S3E8) faster than Way Big's reaction

Can it blitz the other? cannot blitz XLR8 can — lifted a To'kustar before it reacted

Physical strength accelerates up to 1.4 trillion tons lifts 33,750 tons with a vortex

My final speed tier MFTL+ MFTL+ (higher than Way Big)

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PART 7. MAIN CONCLUSION

1. Way Big's mass at realistic 100 meters height — 33,750 tons.

2. The Conquest Ray destroyed Pluto in Alien Force 1x13; its speed is 1050×c (MFTL+).

3. Way Big reflected this beam in Omniverse 3x07 from a distance of ~150 meters → his reflexes are MFTL+.

4. All To'kustars are equal in reflexes (zombie fight).

5. XLR8 lifted a To'kustar faster than it could react (source on Imgur).

Therefore: XLR8 is faster than MFTL+. He can attack a creature with 1050×c reflexes so fast that it doesn't even blink.

Final verdict: XLR8 > Way Big in combat speed and reaction time.