u/LaurieDramaLlama

So obviously this is an Elucien theory. I believe other couples are set up to be the rejected mating bond and Elucien is a red herring for that story and that when the timing is right Elain and Lucien will end up as Springs It Couple!

They both have a lot of growth and healing ahead of them obviously, they need character development and journeys and what better way to do that that with a book all about them!

This post was inspired by the rise in negative Lucien talk I've seen lately around the subs and I wanted to give my 2 cents because this is the internet and thats what we all like to do on here.

"You ruined any chance I have of going back to Spring. Not to Tamlin, but to the court beyond his house. Everyone either still believes the lies you spun or they believe me complicit in your deceit."

THIS QUOTE has caused quite the uproar lately, let's talk about it!

I'm not interested in arguments about Luciens audacity towards Feyre. If characters were perfect before their story is over then what is the point? Lucien and Feyre have some stuff to sort out, whatever.

The real point is: Lucien wants Spring. Not Tamlin. Not the Manor. The Court and its PEOPLE.

But wait Lucien will get Day Court or Autumn Court. NO NO NO. They might pick him but he won't pick them. He will find a way back to Spring while avoiding the f out of taking up Day Court as his home. It is not even confirmed that Lucien even is Helion's son. But even if he was Beron's son and this same scenario pops up with Autumn choosing him, he will not want it. He wants SPRING.

Elain doesnt want fate to tell her what to do, she wants to CHOOSE. Lucien wants to CHOOSE too, for the first time in his life he won't be anyone else's pawn. His own vision for the court he has called home for so long. His FOUND home, not his BIRTH home. We all love a good FOUND family when the BIRTH family sucks, so let's get behind that FOUND home concept.

People seem to agree that Elain is destined for Spring, if ever there was somebody Sping coded its Elain. Thats where the rising popularity of Elain with Tamlin comes from. That would be kinda creepy though considering that is Feyre's ex and all that Tamlin has done, Elain does NOT want Tamlin.

Is it possible that Elain sees herself in Spring in a vision but has not foreseen Tamlin for some reason and thinks she would live under his rule therefore avoiding her fate. Has she seen glimpses of PARTS of a story and has assumed incorrectly how Spring would actually function. The seer misinterprets visions as she learns her powers; classic!

I dont think Lucien will be the one with the powers of Spring. I see Elain being the one chosen by the magic. Elain's court, Lucien by her side serving its people, keeping peace with the humans that share a border with Spring.

"Everyone either still believes the lies you spun or they believe me complicit in your deceit."

People underestimate Elain, they see her as delicate and pure, Elain does not see herself that way, she wants to fight, she wants to help, she is at odds with how people see her, assume things about her. Sound a bit like Luciens conflict with Spring? DING DING DING WE GOT A WINNER! They view him as a liar, complicit in deceit. The Seer and the Golden Eye Fox must change the way the world SEES THEM to align with how they view themselves!

Elain doesnt like doing things the easy way, she wants to earn it. F the magic gloves and wants to get down and dirty, she wants a challenge. What better challenge than a broken court? She can build back the spirt of Spring, plant the seeds of love and caring, host parties and make the people feel the joy and hope of a Spring that was once lost but now reborn under Elain and Lucien.

Elucien, the future It Couple of Spring! 🌸🦊

I am a little confused on what SJM might be up to with ACOTAR 8 and CC4 etc and I am hoping some Bryceriel Baddies can give me some clarification.

My understanding was that SJM has finished the drafts for 6-8 as of the post from last year and then in the CHD podcast SJM announced ACOTAR 6 and ACOTAR 7 release dates while also mentioning that she is currently working on 2 big books. Am I remembering something wrong?

My takeaway was 8 is in drafts but no release date yet because CC4 will come out before ACOTAR 8. So is she working on CC4 and another or is it ACOTAR 8 that she is still writing?

Also do we think after 6-8 the ACOTAR books will be over or will they continue? Or will they finish but the world will continue on in a Twilight of the Gods new series?

So my understanding on publication order will be:

1. ACOTAR 6: Roughly 350–400 pages (constituting Part 1 of an overarching massive story)
2. ACOTAR 7: Approx 900-1000 pages (Parts 2 and 3)
3. CC4: House of Many Waters
4. ACOTAR 8: Unknown page count (Part 4)

Please help me!

Thank you ✨

Question inspired by conversation between u/RBshiii and u/strangehotaliens on the Az after Bryce’s exit post, thank you for inspiring this question baddies! 💅✨

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I think the timelines in ACOTAR and CC line up in a really interesting way.

Nesta was turned Fae approximately two years before the events of HOEAB/AOCSF. Around that same amount of time, Bryce spent two years trapped in grief and depression after Danika and the Pack died. I think these events happened at roughly the same time: Nesta and Elain going into the Cauldron, and Bryce losing Danika.

Sidequest: What if it was the same night? While Nesta and Elain want into the Cauldron the Pack was being murdered? What if Azriel's panic that night which was directed towards Mor was actually connected to Bryce? This goes into the theory They're All Dead by InfamousBrick9476 and how Mor might actually by Bryce's mother) Azriel feels his Mates grief at finding the bodies and accosiates it with Mor because the first time Azriel felt his Mating Bond dying panic was when he found Mor on the edges of the Autumn Court, he followed the thread and it lead him to Mor then spent 500+ years being confused as to why a bond never snapped, because he never knew Mor was pregnant and the baby was the actual death of his fated mate, not Mor. So Azriel looks at Mor with longing for that bond confused and out of place for 500 lonely years.

Sorry that was kinda a mini sidequest there inside my timelines theory, back to our scheduled program:

We're told that when Nesta came out of the Cauldron, she stole something from it—something the Cauldron was furious about. We assume it was simply raw power, but what if it was something much more specific? What if the power she stole was actually the Mother's power of creation, rebirth, and restoration?

And what if that power is actually Bryce's true power?

By the time Danika died, Bryce already had the Horn tattooed onto her back, but it remained dormant. We're told that's because the Horn was broken and needed the Synth to repair it after Micah injected Bryce. But Bryce's magic is repeatedly associated with creation and restoration. If her true power is creation, shouldn't she have been able to heal the Horn herself? Why the need for synthetic magic?

I think she couldn't—not because she lacked the ability, but because Nesta unknowingly possessed that aspect of the Mother's power.

For roughly two years, Bryce's destiny was effectively on hold because the power she needed was sitting inside Nesta.

At the end of ACOSF Nesta gives her power back to the Cauldron. We assume she gives back most of her Silver Flames while keeping only a small amount. But I don't think the Silver Flames were ever the stolen power. I think they were always meant to be hers. The power she returned was the Mother's power itself—the power of creation and rebirth.

Another sidenote: Nesta was able to CREATE new magic weapons during the time she had this stolen power from the cauldron AND bring a house to life, sounds very power of the mother, power of Alpha and Creation and beginnings and Bryce coded to me. And I know this all seems like I am throwing way too much fannon onto Bryce but she literally is the Starborn Heir, we then also get that im thinking Bryce is questioning if she turned Hunt into a Made mate for herself because she needed him, she needed a weapon and a companion to get her through just like Nesta needed a friend and got the House to come alive. I also think Amren knows Nesta stole the power of creation from the Cauldron and warns Cassian to be careful etc but specifically AFTER Nesta gave back her power to the cauldron do we finally get the physical golden thread imagery forming between Cassian and Nesta as they have sex at Rhysands house lol. Almost like it wasn't going to be until Nesta was completely herself and only herself before the bond could come forward and while she has the stolen power that was not meant to be hers she couldn't connect the bond to Cassian.

Once again back to the program:

About two years pass while Nesta has this stolen power, which mirrors the period Bryce has the Horn but can't access its full potential. Once Nesta returns that power to the Cauldron, Bryce's story begins moving again. Shortly afterward, the Horn is restored, the Synth activates it, and the gates open for the demons to attack.

And I can't ignore is the eight-pointed star:

Nesta receives the eight-pointed star tattoo on her back while she still possesses the stolen power. Bryce also bears the Horn on her back, and the eight-pointed star is the symbol of the Starborn. I don't think that's a coincidence. I think the tattoo is symbolically pointing toward Bryce and the Starborn legacy.

Nesta also develops an very strong connection to the Mother throughout Silver Flames. She is guided by fate, able to locate the Dread Trove, and accomplishes things no one else can. Maybe that wasn't simply because she was Made. Maybe it was because she temporarily possessed the Mother's own power.

It would also explain how Nesta was able to remake Feyre, save Nyx, and alter their bodies. That wasn't just destructive Cauldron power—it was true creation.

But maybe Nesta and her sisters are just also starborn? Yes it's possible BUT ONLY the Starborn HEIR can use the Trove, the power of the mother controls the Trove, not just anyone who has Starborn lineage.

Then, after she gives that power back, the next time we see her using the Trove, she struggles far more than before.

My question:

Was Nesta able to find and wield the Trove because she possessed the Mother's power during those two years while Bryce's destiny was effectively paused? And once she returned it, did Bryce finally regain access to the power that had always been meant for her?

BONUS ROUND: OPPONANT: ELRIEL: TAKEDOWN:

Elian was also touched by and changed by the cauldron that awful night. Thats also when Azriel experiences real fear and panic, first angling it towards Mor but then as time went on his feelings moved to Elain.

NOW IF BRYCERIEL ARE MATES (and they totally are) then Elain is very much not Azriel's traditional type. He likes a party princess who very strongly owns her sexuality and fierceness! Elain is a lot of things but not quite that. But she dose like the symbolic things that emulate Bryce like her gardening and eating to bring LIFE - flowers - and Joy back into the world, she understands that the world needs more light and love and healing. All the things linked to Bryce's power of brings literally everything back to life and wanting to restore joy into the world. Elain is touched by the cauldrons powers, Elain has a light effect over Azriel's shadows making them leave him alone and Azriel enjoys to peace of that. What if Azriel can feel his mate is sad and depressed but can also see how sad and depressed Elain has been since becoming fae and then questions the cauldron: what if it was wrong! Azriel is literally so confused and lonely, feels so out of place and disconnected from everyone, even his brothers, is able to tell Cassian that he would know how it felt if his mate died... I think he feels Elain also experiencing loss and sadness and grief (as is Bryce) and they lean into each other for comfort because they are unknowingly experiencing the same grief of lost love, Greyson and Bryce's grief of Danika, Azriel's grief of the bond. And he felt it the night she went into the Cauldron so connects it will Elain. Lusting over her but not loving her, loving the idea of her but not enough to take the leap. Then there is the Gwyn thing.

BONUS BONUS ROUND: OPPONANT: GWYNRIEL: TAKEDOWN:

IF we are following the Mor and Eris are Bryce's soul parents, and we know that Gwyn's father is an unknown High Fae male who assaulted her mother on Calanmai in/from Autumn court. What if it was Eris? What if Eris is Bryce's and Gwyn's father. Half sisters!

Gwyn who has already lost a sister discovers she has another and can form a new connection with a Bryce. Gwyn who has mysterious powers associated with light so much so that everyone tries to steal Bryce's storyline and apply it to Gwyn anyway. Gwyn who specifically wasn't attacked by the creatures on Ramiel almost as if they knew who/what she was. A Starborn Heirs sister! Azriel never expresses romantic interest in Gwyn, only wanting instead for her to feel joy, a lovely thought! FOR WHATEVER REASON is that she is connected to him he just hasn't realised it yet.

Now I dont know about you but when I read Gwyn and Azriel's scenes together I picked up on little sister vibes of her wanting to win his approval more than his romantic attentions. Sibling vibes not romantic vibes. She wanted to impress him with her warrior strength not lure him in with her looks or flirting. She was bantering and teasing no more than Feyre does with Cassian, it's a sibling and friendly dynamic not a romantic dynamic.

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Here is what makes me so confident in my theories and why they are always so jumbled in together with side quests and theories:

Because it all fits together, and once you start pulling the treads it all just keeps unraveling and clicking together and it all flows out and my mind lights with up connections and strings it together. It all fits. It's just a theory though and I understand I may be wrong about a lot of things, but I don't think I am.

1. Cormac is alive, he performed a yielding. Cormac also knew how blood oaths worked but we haven't seen then used in CC yet so I think either he or Bryce will have some sort of Cadre. He also notably knows everything there is to know about Starborn powers, confirmed in text, he made sure he knew everything when he first went looking for the Starsword. Also obviously Cormac is a shadowsinger. (Cormac who mirrors Azriel with 2 evil brothers and daddy issues).

2. Aidas chose to be more loyal to his brothers than his mate. Azriel will face a similar choice between his brothers and his mate. Azriel will choose Bryce but we won't know that until the last minute. Perhaps he will need to double agent as did Baxian, Cormac and Lidia. Also Aidas has been working with Jesiba for 15,000 years to correct his past mistakes. Also Apollion assaulted Jesiba as a sort of Great Rite power taking ritual, remember she was a sorceress - powerful, knowledge is also power so did he see her as a maiden?

3. Rhysand is Valg. Potentially all of the High Lords are. The "Magic" deciding the High Lord is actually the Valg moving to a new host? Also Rhysand's tattoo bargains are sinister AF, I think his bargains with Feyre are his way of controlling her and I bet he has bargain tattoos with Cassian and Azriel too that are just as f'ed up. I think Rhysand sent Feyre the dreams she had before she left the human lands in the cottage - not fate. Fae had been going over the wall for years before Feyre shot the wolf, Rhysand who can winnow the furthest and had a lot of freedom under Amarantha, I think he planned it.

4. Illyrian siphons are channelling power to the Night Court High Lord, currently Rhysand, as a form of Tithe/Tax. The reason they don't work on Rhysand is because the power to supposed to be siphoned to him not from him.

5. Amren is Rhysand's pet/puppet, he talks through her when he wants to say things that he can't if he still wants to seem like the good guy. Like wanting to be High King but needing it to seem like it was everyone else's idea and resisting it at first but he will attempt being High King soon. Her constant lies and not being able to recall a lot of things conveniently could be because shes been daematied by Rhysand a lot. (Also potentially Rhysand is a lot older than he has told us he was).

6. I don't think Rhysand was as under Amarantha's control as we are lead to believe, potentially he was controlling her or influencing her a lot for his gain. What if it was rhysand who chose the decorating after Hewn city and thats his true aesthetic and the mask he wears is actually flipped. Velaris is where he really wears the mask. Also Rhysand is the one fond of the mask analogy, I think he was behind the curse on Tamlin too, masks for Spring etc. Even Amarantha threw the sword Narben in the ocean rather than give it to Hybern. Thats only rumour though, potentially Rhysand knows where or has it himself already or plans to go after it now that Bryce has brought back Starsword/Gwydion.

7. Hunt was actually being the Hunter when he and Bryce first had sex, it was Calanmai and he performed the Great Rite. We know from Tamlin that great and dark magic goes through him when performing the ritual. I think it's the Valg/PoH renewing their powers. Hunt is a PoH/Valg.

8. Hunt will attempt to assault Bryce on the next Calanmai if she hasn't left him by then.

9. Feyre's bad periods were actually miscarriages and Rhysand knows. Nesta has no trouble with hers since turning fae, we don't know about Elain but I don't think she has troubles either. Of course this could just be Feyre having issues with her periods but the way its talked about in text and Rhysand specifically saying the HL's would want her to be their weapon and then breed her was also telling on himself.

10. Nesta's sword is capable of killing Rhysand but at a struggle, similar to Vesperus but she will need help, Vesperus was weak after starving for 15,000+ years Rhysand is very strong and on alert with Nesta (and Bryce). I think Bryce gave her the sword because she can tell that Nesta can see the real Rhysand and hopes she uses it to free her world. But I think the Ocean Queen talking about how Bryce will replace one set of overlords with another actually meant like High Lords/Valg/PoH. The High Lords are the overlords of Prythian, eventually Bryce will join the fight but right now she running from fate.

11. Rhysand's parents were not real mates. But Tamlins were. Tamlin mentioned that his mother loved his father "too much" like he was evil and the mating bond didn't care and it controlled her feelings. Rhysands parents couldn't stand each other after a while and didn't even live in the same city. Either they were Carranam and mistook it or Rhysands father used his powers to make her think it was real because he wanted an Heir and couldn't get on heir from a fae female to stick (leading to Rhysand having similar trouble with Feyre). Rhysands father saw the Illyrian female with wider hips and knowing they didn't have reproduction issues like the fae did decided he needed a half-blood heir.

12. Cassian's father will be revealed, but also Cassian will die. Sorry.

13. King Morven was Valg. Azriel's father is either a Prince of Hel or a Valg King.

Please pull my theories apart of you disagree, point out things I might me misremembering or overlooking. Also what are your theories about the future of Massverse books?