Hi! Can someone please explain me why some people ship Bryce and Azriel? I finished ACOTAR and CC not while ago and only then spotted Bryceriel references. And I can’t understand where is it coming from, I missed any signs of it in CC3

I can understand still shipping Bryceriel fyi - my favourite ships are non-canon ships who will never be canon - but if SJM made Bryceriel happen it would be cruel and I think she would alienate a lot of people. She has twice (I think?) said explicitly that Bryce and Hunt are not only mates but ENDGAME. I know people love to point to her interviews at the time of ACOTAR and how she gushed about Tamlin as evidence of her happily faking out her audience, but that is not the same thing. Being coy about questions or generally gushing over an MMC/couple who is not going to be endgame is very different from explicitly stating to your fans that a beloved and well-established couple is endgame and then later changing that. That is straight up lying to your fans and would alienate a lot of people IMO.

Are there any other examples of SJM straight up lying about couples being endgame?

The difference is particularly pronounced because the series have grown in popularity so much since the ACOTAR days too.

Just my two cents. Keep shipping whoever you want, but making Bryceriel canon would feel pretty mean-spirited to me in light of her interview comments.

I’m actually spiritually PRO Helion/Lady of Autumn… but can I really use the Pro tag if my entire post is basically “I don’t think they’ll end up together”? I’m having an identity crisis.

Okay anyway, first of all… can SJM PLEASE give this woman a name???😭 We’re potentially about to enter book six and she’s still “Lady of Autumn.” At this point it’s becoming funny. I know she’s technically a pretty minor character, but come on… she deserves better.

Their story is already tragic, and we barely know anything about it. We don’t know whether they’re mates (personally I actually doubt it, they had a child together, and I would’ve expected the bond to have snapped into place by then… but who knows), and we don’t know why they never ended up together beyond the obvious political reality. I know someone will say, “Well, that reason is enough.”… NOT FOR ME.

I feel like there’s still a huge part of that story we haven’t been told (duh?!)

I’ve seen the theory that Beron and the Lady of Autumn might actually be mates, and honestly… I can understand why people think that. One of the recurring ideas in the series is that children are rare, yet she had seven. If mating bonds make having children more likely, it would fit. But at the same time, SJM has had so many opportunities to simply tell us they were mates, and she never has.
If she wanted to foreshadow a rejected mating bond between them (which a lot of people believe is coming), I honestly think she would’ve established the bond by now. The fact that she hasn’t makes me doubt that theory quite a bit. That omission feels intentional.

For the record, I’m convinced we’re going to see a rejected mating bond somewhere in this series. It’s been hinted at too many times for it to never become relevant. Narratively, I think it would feel incredibly unsatisfying to keep bringing up rejected bonds, unhappy mates, “nature making mistakes,” and then never actually explore that concept.

As an Elriel, yes, I obviously think it’ll be Elain and Lucien’s, but that’s not really the point of this post. I’m only mentioning it because I don’t personally think it’ll be Beron and the Lady of Autumn.

If it ended up being Beron and the Lady of Autumn instead, I’d be completely okay with it. I’d just also be a little disappointed because I don’t feel like that possibility has actually been built up enough on page. And honestly, if it turns out to be two completely new characters we’ve barely met… I’d probably be even more disappointed.
(I’ve also seen people suggest Nessian😟, but I really don’t think so, not only because of their story, but because SJM herself has described them as something along the lines of “true mates” or “perfect mates.” I don’t remember the exact wording.)

What fascinates me most is that Helion and the Lady of Autumn are basically the definition of forbidden love. And not just forbidden—legendary, the kind of love story I’d happily read 8000+ pages about. We’re not talking about ordinary faeries. We’re talking about a High Lord and the wife of another High Lord. That’s HUGE.

That said… I don’t actually know if I want them to end up together.
Here’s where I struggle.

To me, this feels like a love story where she has carried almost all of the tragedy.

We barely know the Lady of Autumn. She’s appeared, what, three times? And yet she already breaks my heart.
This woman has spent five hundred years trapped in an abusive marriage with Beron. We know she isn’t free. We know she’s been abused. We know she’s had to survive under him for centuries. The only real light in her life seems to be her children.
That’s heartbreaking.

I’m not saying Helion didn’t suffer emotionally. I’m sure he did (and honestly… I hope he did…). But the suffering we’ve actually seen has overwhelmingly been hers.
Maybe this is just a personal preference, but I have a very specific weakness when it comes to romance. 😭
I love the yearning. The pining. The man who’s been hopelessly, devastatingly in love with the same woman for centuries. The kind of love that completely ruins him.

That’s where Helion loses me a little.

I’m not judging him at all for being sexually active. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.
But as a romantasy reader… it doesn’t quite sell me on the idea of this all-consuming, tragic romance when, over the years, we’ve seen him sleep with multiple people, sleep with Mor, openly flirt with Azriel, flirt with basically everyone… 😭

Again, I know those things can absolutely coexist in real life. People can have casual relationships while carrying unresolved feelings for someone else.
But romantically, in a romantasy, where emotions are often heightened, it just doesn’t scratch that itch for me.

Maybe that’s completely a me problem.

Because when I think of tragic romance, I think of two people whose lives have been irreparably shaped by each other.
With the Lady of Autumn, I absolutely believe that’s true.
With Helion… I’m not there yet.

I know SJM probably hadn’t even decided Lucien was Helion’s son until ACOWAR (unless I’m forgetting something, didn’t Beron originally get described as looking similar to Lucien in ACOTAR?).
So maybe Helion’s side of the story simply hadn’t been fully planned yet.

But even in ACOWAR, after that reveal, I still don’t remember seeing the level of devastation from Helion that I personally would’ve wanted if this is meant to be the great forbidden love story.

Maybe SJM will change my mind. She absolutely could.

But right now… I honestly don’t think this story is going to end happily anyway.

I could absolutely see Beron and Helion facing each other in a Blood Duel. I don’t know who would survive, but I have a hard time imagining this storyline ending without someone paying an enormous price.

In fact, my biggest fear isn’t Helion dying.
It’s the Lady of Autumn.

For some reason, I have this horrible feeling she’s the one who won’t make it to the end.
And honestly?
That would completely destroy me.
Whatever SJM has planned… please just give this woman a name first.

I often see Elriels claiming Azriel deserves to be happy cause he suffered enough. Even tho i do agree that i would love for him to find a mate, when has he suffered in recent years?

Sure, he was abused as a child. But then got rescued and lived in luxury with his found brothers ever since. All his recent suffering is self imposed to me, like obsessing over the same woman for 500 years even tho it was clear she didn’t reciprocate. And this is a whole another thing imo cause that’s not normal for me.

So how has he “suffered enough”? Especially compared to other character and his ship rival Lucien? Has Azriel suffered more than Lucien? If so, how?

It’s not specifically anti one ship even tho I personally don’t like elriel. It’s just curiosity of how elriels can say azriel deserves elain cause he suffered enough while also saying lucien’s suffering don’t matter and elain is not a price.

Many are doing re-reads right now, and it made wonder if anyone has seen an opposing ship from a new angle that had led to them switching their preferred ship?

Or, if after the CHD podcast, has anyone switched to a new ship?

Genuine question, and I’m not trying to start a ship war. I’m an Elucien, but I’d really like to understand your perspective. What makes you believe Elriel is endgame? Which scenes, quotes, or patterns in Sarah’s writing make you so confident? I’m genuinely curious to hear the reasoning from people who ship them.

We’re just four months (ish) away from the release of ACO6 with no title, cover, or blurb dropped as of yet. So… how are we all feeling?

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Maybe I’m completely wrong, but Sarah has a very noticeable writing pattern, and that’s one of the reasons I believe Elucien is canon based on what’s actually written in the books. Here are some quotes from all three series, along with the possible ACOTAR pairings.

Crescent City

Bryce & Hunt

“When Bryce was near—glowing with joy. She was the most beautiful thing he had ever seen.”

Ruhn & Lidia

“Ruhn found himself faced with the most beautiful female he’d ever seen.”

Throne of Glass

Rowan & Aelin

“The family he might have, the future he might have. The most beautiful thing he’d ever seen. Aelin.”

Dorian & Manon (not mates, but heavily implied to end up together)

“It’d be a shame to lose the most beautiful woman in the world so soon into her immortal, wicked life.”

ACOTAR

Feyre & Rhysand

Feyre:

“Standing before me was the most beautiful man I’d ever seen.”

Rhys:

“You’re the most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen. I thought that from the first moment I saw you on Calanmai.”

Nesta & Cassian

“Before the silvered lake, she was the most beautiful thing he’d ever seen.”

Lucien & Elain

”…He couldn’t breathe as she faced him fully. She was the most beautiful female he had ever seen.”

Now compare that to Azriel’s POV in the ACOSF bonus chapter.

The standout description we get is:

“How that beautiful face might appear as he entered her, what sounds she’d make.”

After four books of buildup between Azriel and Elain, this is the strongest thought we get from him about her. Meanwhile, Sarah repeatedly uses the exact same “the most beautiful thing/person he’d ever seen” phrasing for couples that either become mates or clearly end up together.

I know some people will point out that Bryce described Micah as beautiful or that Aelin commented on Manon’s beauty. That’s true, but neither of those characters were romantically involved or mates. The context is completely different.

The same goes for Vassa. If Lucien were to end up with her, Sarah would have to explain why he first thought Jesminda was the most beautiful female he’d ever seen, and then later thought the exact same thing about Elain. That repetition doesn’t feel accidental, it feels intentional.

Does this mean Elriel is impossible? No. Azriel and Elain absolutely have sweet, tender moments throughout the series, and I’m not denying that. But if we’re looking strictly at Sarah’s writing patterns across all three series, I think the evidence leans much more heavily toward Elucien being endgame.

I could absolutely be wrong. Sarah loves to surprise her readers. But until the next book is released, this is one of the strongest recurring patterns I’ve found in her writing.

I’d really love to hear from Eluciens, Gwynriels, Elriels, and Bryceriels. (Even Azris shippers! I’m not sure if anyone ships these two genuinely but I’d be so HERE for it)

I’m not looking for ship wars, I genuinely just want to understand the strongest theories for how each pairing fits into the overarching story and the conflict with Koschei. What are the most fleshed out theories for your ship that you think have the most evidence behind them?

Elucien: How do you see Lucien’s spell cleaving abilities, his ties to the Day Court, and his overall story tying into the wider plot? Where does Elain fit into all that? How do you see their romance happening? I’ve seen some compelling theories that Elain will reject the bond but then choose him anyway (which I am SAT for. I love me some angst) but I’d love to hear what the best working theory is for these two.

Elriel: I’ve heard theories about Elain potentially becoming connected to or even a vessel for Koschei which I find really compelling. I also remember seeing mention of fawn / death imagery being used to represent these two as a potential hint for them ending up together. Am I right in thinking that a portion of shippers of Elriel think the Cauldron has been corrupted and faked a mating bond between Elain and Lucien (? I don’t know much about this so if someone could explain I’d love to hear it). Whats the going theory? How do you see their romance happening? Do you think they’re mates? (If so, how - corrupt cauldron or can people have more than one mate?)

Gwynriel: I like the idea of Gwynriel because I love Gwyn and I can totally see there being more to them than people think. The going thing of it being a ‘one sided crush’ on Gwyn’s part feels silly to me - is that not a good thing? Are people not wanting Azriel to be chosen for once? Anyway, I also love the fact that Azriel is as the one to save her from Sangravah.. BUT I think there has to be something more about Gwyn for this pairing to work. Otherwise we may get ACOSF 2.0. As much as I’d love that, I don’t know if it would work (similar to how I feel about the 3 brothers and 3 sisters thing with Elriel). I’ve heard bits and bobs about a Lightsinger theory for Gwyn. If that’s true, how do you see it connecting to Koschei and the larger story? What role does Azriel play? How do you see these two becoming a pair? Do you think they’re mates?

Bryceriel: I’m not interested in whether it’s a crackship or not. Until Azriel’s endgame / mate is on the page, I think it’s worth discussing. I also need any kind of copium to deal with how painfully disappointing Quinlar was in HoFaS. It was either the worst writing of a romantic pair I’ve seen from Sarah or it was intentional, and I see why people choose to think it was intentional. Anyway! We know that Bryce carries the Horn and is a walking item of the Dread Trove, so it’s easy figure out how she would tie into the plot. My question is, how do you see Koschei’s potential interest in her bringing Azriel into the story? If you ship Bryceriel, what’s your strongest theory for how they fit into the wider plot? And how do you see it playing out? (And a side question, what does this mean for Lunathion etc). I see this being a slow burn pair if it happens, spanning maybe even further than the end of ACOTAR and maybe going into future series. But I’d love to hear the most compelling theories as to how it’s going to all play out.

Azris: As the title says, not sure if this is a genuine pairing people see happening or not but regardless would love to hear from you guys. Aside from the idea of these two being the ultimate enemies to lovers pair, I’m not sure whether there’s any compelling evidence for them but that’s maybe due to lack of searching for it on my part?? Similarly to all of the above for each pairing, I’d love to hear your most popular theory on how it would play out in the upcoming books and how it would connect to the wider Koschei plot.

Basically, if someone asked you, “How does your ship advance the main story with Koschei, and how do they get together?”, what would your answer be?

I’d love to read the best theories from each side.

I genuinely spent a couple of minutes deciding whether to flair this as a question for the Audience or as pro-Elriel. 😭 I honestly don’t have the energy for aggressive debates, so if that’s your intention, please, just ignore me. I’m hoping for a civil discussion here. I talked about all three ships, not just Elriel, so it didn’t feel fair to label it only as pro-Elriel.

This post is mostly for people who aren’t completely blinded by the need to win a ship war 🤺

Okay, Anyway… this is a question from someone who admittedly leans Elriel, but is mostly a fan of the series and wants to enjoy whatever story SJM ends up telling.

Something I’ve personally noticed is that over the last few years, Elriel seems to have gone from being considered a legitimate possibility to being treated by some fans as though it’s not even worth discussing anymore. And I genuinely don’t understand how we got here.

I completely understand preferring Elucien. I understand that Lucien and Elain are mates, and SJM is very much a fated mates author. I also understand preferring Gwynriel and finding significance in the ending of Azriel’s BC, even though it was retailer-exclusive and inaccessible to many readers, especially outside the English-speaking fandom.

That’s all fair.

What I don’t understand is why discussions sometimes operate under the assumption that the next book can only realistically be Elucien or Gwynriel, while Elriel is treated as if believing in it is borderline delusional.

Personally, I think it’s pretty obvious that the third Archeron sister will have a major focus in the next book, regardless of which ship ends up canon, whether it’s multi-POV or not. Elain has been sidelined for too long, and she’s tied to too many important storylines: Koschei, the human queens, her powers as a Seer, her relationship with Lucien AND Azriel, her sisters, and even the broader theme of choice versus fate.
Not exploring her now would honestly feel like a missed opportunity. I also feel like Elain is often judged by a standard that other characters simply aren’t held to. She’s called boring, blank, or lacking personality, yet we’ve spent five books intentionally being kept out of her head. We know very little about Azriel’s inner world too, and Lucien hasn’t even had a POV, but somehow it’s always Elain who has to prove she’s worthy of being a protagonist. To me, she feels less like an empty character and more like an unopened box. SJM has spent years letting other people define Elain, and I think that’s precisely why I’m excited to finally see who she is on her own terms.

Anyway

Elriel doesn’t have to be your preference. You can genuinely believe they are impossible.
But canonically, Elain and Azriel do have feelings for each other. People can absolutely interpret those feelings as desire rather than love; I personally don’t, but either way there is something there. It’s textually present.

I’ve even seen people say things like, “If you didn’t read the BC, that’s your problem.” But bonus chapters are called bonus chapters for a reason. They are extra content.
Interesting? Absolutely.
Worth discussing? Of course.
But not everyone had access to them, not every language received them, and I don’t think readers who never knew they existed should suddenly be considered less capable of understanding the story.

Every interpretation and theory is valid. But I also don’t think people should get upset when someone asks questions such as, “If this chapter was so narratively essential, why wasn’t it included in the actual book? Why keep potentially major information away from Nesta and Cassian’s POVs? Why make access to supposedly crucial information dependent on retailer exclusives?”

The BC became famous within the fandom, but it remains a fact that it wasn’t translated into every language. You can’t really blame readers for not having read it. I personally only read Azriel’s BC this March, after becoming active in the fandom following the ACOTAR 6/7 discussions, despite having read the books over three years ago. Does that somehow make me less of a fan?

Do I have the right to think that it would feel strange for a couple built over several books, especially throughout ACOFAS and ACOSF, to effectively die in an eleven-page retailer-exclusive chapter? (Though I should say that I personally never felt like the BC killed Elriel, but that’s beside the point. I’m speaking more generally about interpretation)

Personally, yes.

I think a casual reader would find that incredibly abrupt. If Elriel isn’t meant to be, I think that deserves to be explored properly on page.
Many things can happen in 2000+ pages. SJM absolutely could have changed her mind. Maybe Elriel gets explored and then she gradually shows us why they aren’t meant to be. That’s how you treat readers respectfully, in my opinion. And if that’s the story she wants to tell, then that’s what we deserve: a story.

Because ultimately, we don’t know.
Maybe Elriel won’t happen. Maybe it will. Some people already speak as though one outcome is undeniably guaranteed, and that’s the part I struggle with.

I know perfectly well there are rude people in every ship. I’ve seen people behave poorly even while sharing my own preferences, so I don’t want to play victim or frame this as “Elriels good, everyone else bad.” That’s not my intention. I’m mostly speaking from my own experience and from watching discussions become increasingly dismissive toward even the possibility of Elriel.

Regarding Gwynriel, I completely understand why the BC interaction was interpreted romantically. The dynamic was sweet, the curious shadows were interesting, both characters singing is cute, and theories about Shadowsingers and Lightsingers are genuinely fun to read. The first time I read it (very late, and not even in my own language), I definitely thought, “Okay, Why is this written this way? ,” especially with the necklace scene.

But moving from that to saying it’s 100% guaranteed feels premature to me. Five years is a long wait. Theories have kept this fandom alive, and I think people should be allowed to speculate without having their reading comprehension insulted.

As for Elucien, the mating bond is undeniably significant. Personally, I think SJM would need to do more narrative work to convince me because Elain currently seems uncomfortable with the bond, and SJM herself described Elain as having been “essentially married to a stranger.” (Also, with all those hints about a possible bond rejection, I think SJM would need to do quite a bit of narrative work to convince me) But I trust SJM. She’s had years to think about this story, and if Elucien happens, I’ll trust that she genuinely believed it was the best story she could tell.

Ultimately, what I don’t understand is this: if all three ships supposedly still have a chance, why does Elriel often feel like the only one that has lost its right to even be explored?

Especially considering that, at least right now, Elain and Azriel are the only pairing where we’ve explicitly seen mutual feelings and years of slow narrative build-up on the page. You don’t have to interpret those scenes the same way I do. You can give significance to “His name is Lucien.” You can give significance to Gwyn’s breath making Azriel’s shadows dance. That’s canon. That’s fair.

But then I also think it’s fair for others to give significance to “The Cauldron made you a Seer” immediately after we had been told that only a mate could truly know something was wrong. Or to Truth-Teller. Or to “You came for me.” Or to “Something charged passed between them.” (The very last interaction we get between Azriel and Elain in the actual book is this. As a casual reader, this is how I was left seeing them).

SJM herself has admitted that she originally started ACOTAR more for fun and vibes than with a rigid master plan (“i didn’t plan Rhysand”).
Some people even theorize that Moriel was originally intended to happen and later changed. I honestly share some of those suspicions. But going from that to assuming she changes her mind in every single book also feels excessive. At that point, none of us should really feel secure in any ship because SJM would simply become entirely unpredictable.

I don’t think that’s impossible. But if she does change course, I think the story itself should do the convincing (for everyone, not just for me)
I’ve never met anyone in real life who’s read ACOTAR. Seeing how hostile parts of the fandom can become over this is honestly a little sad.

At the end of the day, we’re all just people waiting to read a good epic love story. 🩷

I wanted to share why I believe Eris could become Elain’s romantic partner in the future ACOTAR books.

For me and I think for many readers as well Azriel’s bonus chapter significantly weakened the possibility of Elriel. If you’re an Elriel shipper, that’s completely fine; we simply interpret the text differently, and I understand why people support that pairing. However, I think many readers assumed that if Elriel isn’t happening, then Elucien must automatically be the endgame. I don’t believe that’s necessarily true.

Before I start, I want to share a post that perfectly summarizes many of my thoughts. https://www.reddit.com/r/AcotarShipDebateSub/comments/1oab1vc/why_hasnt_elucien_been_developed_like_other/

I didn’t write it myself, but I agree with it completely. In my opinion, Elucien doesn’t follow Sarah J. Maas’s usual patterns when it comes to her endgame couples.

1. SJM said we’d know who the next book was about by the end of ACOSF

Sarah once said:

“Once you get to the end of ACOSF, I think you’ll know who the next book is about.”

Many people interpreted that as evidence for Gwynriel. Others thought it pointed toward Elriel. While I personally think Sarah may have changed her plans and future books might no longer follow the “one couple = one book” structure, I don’t think that was the original intention at the time.

I also think readers often see what they want to see. If you have a favorite character or ship, of course you’ll look for evidence that the next book is about them because you’d love to read their story as soon as possible.

But what do we actually get at the end of ACOSF?

Chapter 79 is essentially dedicated to Eris. This isn’t just a brief mention like some of the references to Gwyn, Azriel, or Elain in Chapter 80. It’s an entire chapter devoted to showing that Eris may actually be a good person beneath the mask he presents to the world.

That’s significant.

Why include a chapter that fundamentally changes the reader’s perception of a character near the end of a book if you’re not planning to do something with that character afterward?

Think about it from the perspective of a future reader. Years from now, when the ACOTAR series is complete, readers won’t be arguing online about who the next book is about. They’ll simply finish ACOSF and immediately pick up the next installment. Wouldn’t it make sense for the story to follow up on such a major revelation?

2. ACOTAR 5 (Now ACOTAR 6) was clearly meant to be Elain’s story

There are many reasons why I believe the next book was always intended to focus on Elain.

After telling Feyre’s story and then Nesta’s story, it would make very little sense to simply skip over the third Archeron sister.

Some readers argue that Elain’s book should be the final installment of the series, but I strongly disagree. I think that would be a mistake.

Like Nesta’s book, Elain’s story should be character-driven rather than plot-driven. A final book would likely resemble ACOWAR, with a major war and huge plot developments. In that kind of story, there simply wouldn’t be enough room to properly explore Elain’s trauma, growth, and personal journey.

For that reason alone, I don’t think saving Elain for the very end makes much sense.

Honestly, if someone insisted that ACOTAR 5 wasn’t going to be about Elain, I think it’s possible they simply didn’t want to read a book focused on her and that’s perfectly okay. Everyone has their preferences.

https://preview.redd.it/o4y5btp90i9h1.jpg?width=1178&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28f85a414a03abdfd832553f30f932f43e6542fd

https://preview.redd.it/hpyzssp90i9h1.jpg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f93ef5e1fb17f246cc9bd335bdcb066fe95dd0a6

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3. Eris was heavily set up in ACOSF

Eris is mentioned approximately 343 times in ACOSF, while Lucien is only mentioned around 62 times.

To me, ACOSF positioned Eris and Azriel as major male characters moving forward, just as it positioned Elain and Gwyn as major female characters.

Throughout the book, we learn:

• He enjoys reading.
• He can dance.
• He has twelve dogs.
• We learn about his ambitions and political goals.
• We begin to understand parts of his trauma.

This feels very much like the setup Sarah typically gives future important characters and potential love interests.

4. SJM Connected Eris to Elain’s plot

One thing that stands out to me is that Sarah has already begun linking Eris to storylines that will likely be central to Elain’s arc, particularly the Koschei plot.

I don’t think that’s accidental.

5. The dogs…..

Okay, this might sound ridiculous, but hear me out.

In ACOSF, we learn that Eris has twelve dogs.

Meanwhile, Elain is described as:

“Like a dog, loyal to whatever master kept her fed and in comfort.”

And in ACOWAR, Elain says about Graysen:

“They have hounds. Bred and trained to hunt you. Detect you.”

I just find it interesting that the only characters associated with dogs is Eris and Greyson.

Coincidence? Maybe.

But it’s definitely something that caught my attention.

6. SJM’s instagram live answer

During an Instagram Live, Sarah was asked:

“Have we met Elain’s official love interest in the last five books?”

Her initial response was:

“There are a lot of characters.”

Then she added:

“I know the answer to this, and I’m debating the fallout from this like how many texts you’re going to send me with crazy theories. I will just say yes.”

What interests me is the word “fallout.”

Why would there be fallout from that answer?

Because if Elain’s love interest were Azriel or Lucien, that wouldn’t really be surprising. They’re already the obvious choices.

The answer becomes much more interesting if the love interest is someone unexpected.

Someone like Eris.

7. Foreshadowing

There’s also this exchange:

“I think Eris is our ally, and will expect to dance with a lady of this court at the ball no matter what. I won’t let Feyre within five feet of him, Mor might kill him, and Amren is more likely to scare him off than win him over, so you and Elain are the only options.”

And Feyre respone:

**Elain doesn’t go near him.**And you won’t let me near him?”

I honestly think this could become one of those funny moments that readers revisit after the series is finished.

The kind of scene that makes you smile during a reread and think:

“If only you knew, Feyre.”

8. Eris is certainly getting a redemption arc

I think most readers agree that Eris is heading toward a redemption arc.

And redemption arcs often work best when they are tied to close personal relationships.

We’ve seen Sarah do this before with characters like Rhysand, and to some extent with Lorcan.

Romance is one of the most effective ways to humanize a morally grey character because it allows readers to see sides of them that would otherwise remain hidden.

Does Multi-POV hurt Elucien?

We don’t know whether future books will use multiple POVs or continue the dual-POV structure of ACOSF.

However, based on comments Sarah has made in CHD, I personally think a multi-POV approach is increasingly likely. If that’s true, then the old “one couple = one book” formula may no longer apply.

Here’s why I think that matters:

If the endgame couples are simply Gwynriel and Elucien, Sarah could easily tell those stories in the same format as ACOSF with only two POV characters.

But if Elain and Lucien are not endgame, then I think it’s important that readers understand why.

Even if the mating bond turns out to be false, I think we’d need perspectives from both sides in order to fully understand why they don’t work together.

Lucien is also a character who has been with us since the very first book. He deserves a POV regardless of who he ends up with.

There are major moments such as Lucien learning that Helion is his father that, in my opinion, deserve to be experienced through Lucien’s eyes rather than through someone else’s.

9. The Banter Factor

I’m not entirely sure whether this is true, but I’ve seen people say that Sarah said her couples need banter.

Personally, I don’t think Elriel or Elucien currently provide much of that.

Elain and Eris, however, potentially could.

They’re complete opposites on the surface, and that kind of dynamic often creates some of the most entertaining character interactions.

Final Thoughts

At the end of the day, I think it would be fascinating if Elain ended up with neither Azriel nor Lucien because it would challenge everything readers have assumed about her from the beginning.

I also believe that what Elain truly wants is to be seen.

She says in ACOWAR that only Graysen ever really saw her.

The problem is that most characters and therefore most readers tend to see Elain in very simplistic terms: the sweet gardener, the gentle Archeron sister. While I absolutely think she is kind and compassionate, it’s obvious that there’s much more to her than that.

I think Azriel has an idealized and somewhat distorted view of Elain as well. He doesn’t really see Elain; he sees the third Archeron sister. He sees someone fragile, vulnerable, and in need of protection.

As for Lucien, I think he primarily sees her as his mate.

People often describe him as the “king of yearning,” but can someone truly love a person they barely know?

What does Lucien actually know about Elain? That she’s Feyre’s sister, that she likes gardening, and that she’s his mate.

That’s not enough to love someone.

I don’t think Lucien yearns for Elain because he knows her deeply. I think he yearns because of the mating bond.

In my opinion, neither Azriel nor Lucien fully sees Elain for who she is. They don’t want Elain because she is Elain. They want her because she represents something important to each of them.

That’s one of the reasons I find the idea of Elain and Eris so compelling.

Both characters are profoundly misunderstood.

Eris is viewed as cruel, cold, and ruthless.

Elain is viewed as weak, delicate, and passive.

Yet I suspect neither description tells the whole story.

A relationship between two people who are constantly reduced to simplistic versions of themselves could be interesting. It would allow both of them to finally be seen for who they really are and that, more than anything, is why I think Eris and Elain could work.

There's a lot that I think is awful in the bonus chapter, but this is one of my least favorite lines, and I'd love to see more people address it.

Has Rhysand been so checked out he hasn't noticed that Mor hasn't looked at Az once in 500 years? Why does he want him chasing after someone who doesn't want him for eternity? I would rather he address it like a friend, and tell him he is glad to see he is finally getting over Mor, even if it wasn't politically a good choice and it can't happen.

I assume it's Rhysand trying to manipulate his feelings so he feels conflict about his attraction to Elain, but it's an incredibly weak shot since Az's feelings have changed. It should seem pretty obvious to the people close to them.

I straight up hate everything about the Mor plotline, and also question why Cassian spends so much time being attracted to her when his literal mate is in the vicinity.

just finished ACOSF for the first time and i've been hearing about this shipping war for years without knowing what it was actually about. now that i've read the bonus chapter i fully understand how eleven pages caused all of this. coming in completely blind, no outside takes beforehand, so everything here is purely how i experienced it.

the bonus chapter kind of confused me

him lusting after elain just...doesn't make sense to me? going back through the series there was never really a clear reason the two of them gravitated toward each other, they just kind of did, and he was there when she was going through everything after the cauldron. but after reading the bonus chapter it just seems like lust to me, and i can't figure out where it even came from.

and here's the thing, i always thought of azriel as someone incredibly calculated and guarded, someone who keeps everything locked so far down that even the reader barely gets access to it. we literally watched him pine after mor for 500 years and never say a word about it to anyone. 500 years of buried feelings and complete silence. that's who azriel is to me. someone who will carry something quietly for centuries before he ever lets it show.

so if anything, i would expect him to be the absolute last person to sit across from rhys and say the things he said in that chapter. like lucien doesn't deserve to be her mate, and that it wasn't fair that cassian and rhys had two of the archeron sisters and he didn't have elain. like...what? that's not calculated. that's not the person who said nothing about mor for half a millennium. that's almost petty, and it felt so jarring coming from him specifically. the azriel i thought i knew would have taken those feelings and buried them so deep nobody would ever know they existed, including rhys. he wouldn't be sitting there complaining that it isn't fair.

and the actual reasoning itself is what really got me. because it's not really about elain as a person at all. it's about the fact that she's the third archeron sister and his brothers have the other two. that's possessiveness, not love. that's not "i know this specific person and i want her," that's "i feel like i'm owed this because of what the people around me have." and for a character who i thought was defined by how deeply and privately he feels things, reducing his feelings for elain to essentially that was so strange to me.

and the necklace thing?? him just regifting it to gwyn like wtf lmao what did he think was going to happen there

on gwyn and the repetitive pattern

i do think gwyn and azriel have a more interesting dynamic, and i know people say three brothers three sisters is lazy writing, i get that point, but i also kind of disagree. my issue isn't the symmetry. it's that we've had five books of feyre and nesta's stories and the bat boy romance formula is starting to feel repetitive. i would genuinely love for azriel to be the one who ventures outside of an archeron sister and explores something different, and gwyn would be such an interesting character to do that with. she's charming, funny, dare i say a slightly better version of elain (don't take that too seriously lol). because like...i have literally seen nothing from elain across these books. all i know is she likes gardens. zero personality. i'm excited to hopefully get more from her in her own book, but with nesta we saw so much of who she was even before ACOSF. elain is just...blank. and that's a big part of why i'm less excited about azriel and elain, because i'm scared it'll just be a repeat of everything i've already read.

okay but here's my actual theory

we know azriel pined after mor for 500 years. five hundred years. and i think that tells us something really important about who he is: when azriel loves someone it completely consumes him. quietly, privately, for as long as it takes.

i think what's happening with elain is the exact same pattern. but when i actually look at their moments together there's not a lot of real intimacy there. it's more lust than anything else, and his whole "the cauldron should have given me the third sister" reasoning reads less like someone who deeply knows a specific person and more like someone who has latched onto an idea and let it take over. which honestly, based on the mor situation, tracks completely for azriel.

but then there's gwyn. and here's the thing: azriel barely registers what's happening there, it's almost an afterthought to him. but his shadows moved toward her. and azriel's shadows react before he does, they're tied to something deeper than his conscious feelings. the fact that they responded to gwyn in a way he didn't even fully notice feels like it means something.

so my actual theory: what if gwyn is azriel's mate and he rejects the bond for elain?

azriel is consumed by elain the same way he was consumed by mor. he's not going to notice a bond pulling him somewhere else when his focus is already completely locked. and SJM loves a rejected mate arc, elain is literally living one right now with lucien. what if azriel ends up on the other side of that exact situation, missing something real because he's too fixated on someone else to see it?

the tragedy of that would fit his character perfectly. 500 years pouring himself into something that was never going to happen, and then when something real is right there, almost missing it because he's doing the exact same thing again.

i know it's probably not gonna happen and he's ending up with elain. i'm just hoping it's done well. those are my thoughts, curious what people who've been in this fandom longer actually think

Does anyone else find it interesting that SJM has been asked to clarify Bryce and Hunt's relationship status multiple times, even after CC2 and more recently CC3? Has she ever been repeatedly questioned about another couple after they call each other mate on page?

Talvez seja porque tenho relido Trono de Vidro, mas ultimamente tenho pensado em como a sensação de escala é diferente entre as duas séries de Sarah.

Quando Trono de Vidro começa, estamos focados principalmente em Celaena, Dorian e Chaol em Adarlan. O mundo parece relativamente pequeno porque o vemos por uma perspectiva limitada. Então, Herdeira do Fogo acontece e, de repente, tudo se expande. Deixamos o território familiar, viajamos para Wendlyn, conhecemos a corte de Maeve, aprendemos sobre culturas e histórias completamente diferentes, e a série começa a parecer muito maior do que nos dois primeiros livros.

Continuo desejando que Acotar fizesse algo semelhante.

Uma das coisas que me surpreende é que Prythian deveria parecer enorme. Há sete Cortes, séculos de história, tensões políticas, antigas alianças, magia ancestral e um continente humano inteiro do outro lado do mar. No entanto, depois de Acotar parece que a história continua voltando ao mesmo lugar, às mesmas pessoas e à mesma dinâmica. E antes que alguém me interprete mal, não estou dizendo que não gosto de Velaris ou do Círculo Interno. Não gosto. Mas passamos tanto tempo lá que às vezes parece que estamos constantemente ouvindo o quão vasto é o mundo, em vez de realmente vivenciá-lo. Há tantas partes deste mundo que parecem fascinantes, mas mal as exploramos. Só a Corte do Outono parece ter material suficiente para um romance inteiro. Ainda temos Beron, a Senhora do Outono, o relacionamento de Lucien com sua família, Helion, as consequências políticas de tudo isso, e isso é apenas uma Corte. Depois, há o continente. Vassa. Jurian. Koschei. As rainhas. O fato de que algumas das maiores ameaças não resolvidas da série nem sequer estão em Velaris. E agora temos a revelação de que a Prisão nem sempre foi a Prisão. Que havia uma Corte inteira lá antes. Quando li isso, meu primeiro pensamento não foi sobre casais ou romance. Finalmente, algo que poderia expandir o mundo. Honestamente, é por isso que acho a história de Lucien tão interessante. Não por causa de com quem ele pode ficar no final, mas porque ele é um dos poucos personagens cuja história se estende naturalmente além da Corte Noturna. Através dele, temos conexões com a Corte da Primavera, a Corte do Outono, a Corte do Dia, as terras humanas, Vassa, Jurian e várias tramas políticas não resolvidas.

Acho que o que me falta é aquela sensação de descoberta que Trono de Vidro tinha.

Aquele momento em que a história para de olhar para dentro e começa a olhar para fora.

Quero ver lugares sobre os quais só ouvimos falar. Quero conhecer pessoas fora do Círculo Interno. Quero passar um tempo em Cortes que não sejam a Corte Noturna. Quero sentir que Prythian é tão grande e complexa quanto os livros nos dizem que é. Talvez eu esteja na minoria, mas se o próximo livro de ACOTAR me der mais construção de mundo, mais viagens, mais política e mais exploração do mundo em geral, provavelmente ficarei mais animada com isso do que com qualquer casal romântico. Alguém mais se sente assim? Ou vocês preferem que a história continue centrada em Velaris e no Círculo Interno? 🤍

Happy Monday!

I did a re-read of Frost and Starlight over the weekend and I totally forgot about this line that Rhysand thought while in discussion with Cassian about Nesta.

>My throat tightened, and I gripped him hard around his wings, the scales of his leathers digging into my fingers. “What about you?” I asked, pulling away after a moment. “Are you … happy?”
Shadows darkened his hazel eyes. “I’m getting there.”
A halfhearted answer.
I’d have to work on that, too. Perhaps there were threads to be pulled, woven together.

______________________________

First and foremost, I do like Nessian. Although I think the Neris crackship is better :D

I do know that Cassian and Nesta displayed mate like behavior towards each other prior to Frost and Starlight, so I don't REALLY think Rhys is messing with their mating bond.

But....just to play devils advocate and propose a fun discussion, what else could Rhys have meant about pulling and weaving threads? Because the only ones we really know of are the mating bond threads.