u/LillthOfBabylon

I’m asking because attraction and attractiveness seems to be used as this catch all phrase,

For example: Quotes like “Being nice doesn’t make a man more attractive!”

So are men happy being considered attractive but no one wants to be around him? 

Are men happy being considered attractive but doesn’t want to fuck him?

Similarly, does what to fuck him, because he’s attractive, but wants to take things slow to get to know him for a couple of months?

Would guys be fine hearing “He’s so hot….but he’s a broke ass bum and I can get someone just as hot but with money”?

“But men will humiliate themselves and turn into jesters for female validation!”

Correction: For hot girls, for easy pussy, and for women with low personality standards.

Guys end up in the situation because they’re asking for too much or they’re asking for something quick.

Now that I got that out the way, lets talk about the main idea of this: a lot of guys refused to humble themselves in two ways. Either lowering their standards or working to be a higher quality guy.

Onto  the whole “My personality cant be the problem! I see jerks who get girlfriends!”

First of all, what do you bring to the table? What do you have of value? What would give people a reason tolerate a terrible personality? Because if your perks can be easily find in a person without your flaws, why wouldn’t a women take that person instead of you?

Too many guys have this fantasy of having endless validation no matter what they do. The vast majority of men do not have the type of looks nor money to get that type of treatment.  And instead of understanding that and adjusting their goals in life, they want to get bitter that they’re not special.

Second, what type of women are you looking for? If youre looking for a shallow, egostical, dysfunctional? Then yes, envying assholes with girlfriends make sense. The assholes are taking the women you want.

Like I said before, women don’t really care that men want trashy women. Just stop acting like it’s society‘s fault that you have a thing for trashy women. Women have been very vocal about women who are garbage, it’s just a matter of whether or not men want to listen. 

Thirdly, guys gotta stop complaining about desirable women having inflated egos and that she’s expecting men to jester. If she’s as desirable as guys describe these egotistical women as, why should she be humble? She’s not losing that many guys due to being a bitch. The fact the guys complaining are still willing to entertain her will inflate her ego even more. You would have to have the willpower to basically say “I dont care how hot she is nor how horny I am, Im not putting up with that shit”.

But keep in mind, to have a woman with a decent personality, you not just have to value personality as your highest priority, you also have to have a decent personality yourself. All of which requires humility to actually have introspection add to actually question whether or not you are someone you would want to be around.

One of the weird paradoxes.

"Men are forced to chase the masculine standard"

"Feeling a victim is a woman thing"

Holding both of these ideas make no sense for a man who keeps feeling like a victim. Because then, why would women want them? If they wanted a whiny man child, they already have friends for that and their friends aren't expecting them to tolerate subpar sex. Of course women can get away with having a victim complex while being attractive, it's a female trait remember?

For guys saying "Men dont have to bring up how they feel". Problem is having a victim complex seeps into multiple areas of life. And if the guy's social skills/tact is below average, he's not going to hide his victim complex well.

I notice guys who believe “All Women Are Like That” use it because its easier than actually noticing people’s personality and behavior. i already talked about how most guys in the sub/redpill cant detect fickle/fake women nor when a guy is being an unlikable ass. Another example who keep describing morally bankrupt women and still believe she’s not just because she APPEARS nice and bubbly.

A popular thing I see is guy saying even good women go after bad people. If the guy is blatantly bad to the point where he is harming innocent people, she is emotionally bankrupt as he is. In a similar argument I had, a guy was saying that “these women will hate on actual good guys and still stay with abusers”, not noticing if she actually is mean to people who are good to her, that still means she’s a terrible person.

Another example is seeing guys say ”even prudes like to fuck around”……..then she’s not a prude. She just like the image that she doesnt like to fuck around.

And I think this goes hand-in-hand with a lot of guys who love to redefine words to fit their worldview.

Also, if there’s no bad women then a guy cant be held responsible for wanting them.

Not only is that hypocritical, these guys don’t understand that’s precisely why they rarely ever see women going after good men. They simply don’t like women who do. Like I have been seen before, minimal likely to love, fickle fake women (like women who say they a good man but go after bad ones) because those women stroke the male ego. 

And these guys are just as annoying as the women who say “where all the good men gone” because they will complain about how “Women have inflated egps and make men jester for them while using men for a free meal” but they will still entertain these women and never get those types of personalities out of their dating pool so it defeats the purpose of complaining about them.

Also, a woman who cares about morals is going to want a man who also cares about morals. So a man who will tolerate a terrible woman is not someone a moral person would want.

The red pill has this weird belief that women think all women are sugar, spice, and everything nice. They act like women have some mythical, all-encompassing sisterhood where we never call other women out and blindly defend any woman just because she is a woman (unless she’s a conservative). That is not reality.

Women spot and hate dumb women, fake women, fickle women, and women who lose common sense for dick. It’s just lots of men dont listen and think those women are awesome just because they’re hot and/or ‘slutty’. Women dont really care. Just stop acting like it’s our fault men see our trash as their treasure.

The red pill loves saying, “Don’t listen to what women say. Watch what they do.” But then they keep chasing women whose words and actions do not match because those women boost the male ego. For example, always strange when red pill men act like they discovered some mythical cheat code because they found a “feminist” who secretly sleeps with misogynistic/redpill men. Who says those women dont exist? They’re just fake. You didn’t break her conviction with good dick, her conviction to the feminist cause was always weak. She’s as fake as couples who claim they’re religious but do ‘soaking’ before marriage. Both types of people love the image of moral superiority for social approval, but aren’t disciplined enough to practice what they preach.

Despite the stereotype, women dont like having fake fickle friends. It’s just those women end up friends with each other because they love the drama and everyone else kick them out of their lives. Just like men say “I always see assholes with women”, we always see fake bitches with men. Funny enough, I had a post where most of the men answered they’ll put up with garbage behavior as long as the person is useful. 

This is also why the “women love assholes” argument is so annoying. Men will point to women dating assholes or dangerous men and act like that proves women do not care about good men. Why are you assuming most women respect those women? A woman who constantly brings dangerous men around other women is not just “choosing badly.”, she’s putting everyone else in danger. Why would women value a woman who endangers other women just because she thinks some asshole/psycho is hot? When women see a woman romanticizing  real life dangerous men, most of us are not thinking, “Teehee, that’s just female nature” We are thinking, “Oh this bitch would sacrifice me for Charles Manson or Slenderman”.

Again, the issue is NOT that men keep chasing those garbage women because these want sex, validation, and/or access to hot women. The issue is when they try to blame all women for their trashy taste in women. 

I realized this when a guy said "Women only want to free themselves from gender roles, but wont for men!" As soon as I bring up 'toxic masculinity'? "That's a childish complaint!" which shows these guys don't actually want to be liberated from societal gender norms. 

Then that got me thinking. Women totally misunderstood men when they say "Men must suffer in silence". Women mistake that as a cry for help. Those guys actually want to be validated for that. They want to feel like Guts from Berserk, Kratos from God Of War, Bruce Wayne, etc. They want to feel like a cool sigma who's carrying the weight of the world on their shoulders. 

Also, think of Jason Todd. Jason Todd is cool because he has an axe to grind with the Joker, Gotham, and how he was basically beaten to death. However, in Gotham Knights, he's in therapy, he does coping exercises, doing pottery to emotionally heal, that's not as cool. 

Hence, why these men don't like therapy nor learning how to be vulnerable while handling their emotions LIKE AN ADULT.  It's simply ruins the fantasy of the cool lone wolf. It's also a victim complex in the 'cool masculine way' that Joker portrayed how "they're broken people that the world broke them!".

Now, this makes no sense to an emotionally healthy adult who actually doesn't think suffering is cool. But think back BEFORE adulthood. Then this would make sense. 

For anyone offended that Im implying men pretend to have problems....perhaps start lecturing guys who cosplay suffering for aura farming. Their demands of validation are alot louder than the men actually suffering in silence. Perhaps, tell these guys that suffering isn’t cute and it’s something to address and heal from?

Here's what I think is the problem whenever guys complain about having to pay for dates. They'll be left with:

1. Women who dont merely lean left, but actually believe in egalitarianism. What's the turn off? Most likely she's a ball buster. Also, she expects him to keep up with her. If she shows all the "positive masculine traits" (basically just being a competent adult with self-control and no insecurities) and he doesn't, she'll be turned off.
2. Women who are ugly and wanna be sugar mamas. Men here will say they'll take any woman, but most don't really mean it.
3. Similarly, some older single mom looking for a hot baby sitter for her kids. I say this from my friend telling me he was upfront when he had no car, no job, no money....and his DMs were flooded with older single moms who wanted to take care of him.

However, the women most guys drool over and dream about dont have to pay for herself because there's men begging for her attention. So why would she put up with a guy expecting her to pay for herself when there's nothing special about him? She can find a guy with all his perks and the added perk of paying for expensive meals.

I’m just trying to figure out why there’s so much complaining about men being expected to pay. The easiest solution is just not paying. Sure, you can complain about women who expect you to pay because they’re using you for a free meal (there are women like that), but it can’t be that big of a deal. Just dont pay. Just be upfront that you don’t want to pay for dates. Is it a massive big deal in your culture? Because its not in America.

Keep in mind this is for my country of the USA:

Surveyed 17k people: 28% of women shared expenses right from the start. 60% arent bothered when expected to pay

https://digitalcommons.chapman.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?filename=0&article=1058&context=psychology_articles&type=additional

page 24, 38% of women find it acceptable to split the bill:

https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/20/2024/10/PST_2024.10.17_men-masculinity_REPORT.pdf?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Trying to remind men that while showing emotions you still have to act like an adult. I keep hearing guys claim “We’re not allowed to show vulnerability, unlike women!” but this also comes down to what you're complaining about too.

There’s a difference between crying over your dog of 17 years dying and “ITS NOT FAIR I DONT GET THE PUSSY I WANT!”

Just like there’s a difference having an emotional crisis once in a while and having an emotional crisis constantly while ALSO making your emotional issues everyone else’s problems.

If an adult is not going to learn to stop being an emotional then absolutely just be quiet about your emotions. People will always prefer silence over annoying. Ideally, people want an adult who acts like an adult. But that adult has to want to act like an adult.

This is really what women mean when they say nice guys are entitled. Because so many guys want a reason ( a trophy) for being the bare minimum of decent himan beings. However, none of them seem to have ever asked themselves “Why should people put up with my shitty attitude?” And that’s also that same self-centeredness that’s so immature and annoying. It lacks empathy, and empathy isn’t just needed to be a good moral person. Empathy is needed for self-reflection.

“BUT WOMEN DONT HAVE TO ASK THESE QUESTIONS!“

Because too many guys would put up with anything for pussy, especially the hot ones. How about personal responsibility for your lack of self-respect? 

Speaking of women, imagine a fat woman crying that a supermodel can be a bitch but she cant. Notice the hypothetical fat woman never asks “Why should people put up with me? What value do I give back? Whats so special about me?”

And this is also why power fantasies in media are annoying. Because it typically appeals to subpar/mediocre people wanting to be treated like they’re special for no reason. And worse, a lot of subpar/mediocre people will use media to delude themselves into thinking that can be a reality.

It’s funny when a lot of people, particularly a lot of men, they all relationships are transactional, but the same people rarely question what they give to other people in terms of value.

I'm not understanding the appeal or the obsession with women who chase felons or women who are doormats to walking red flags. Why not focus on women NOT doing that? Do you not know any normal stable women? Are the normal stable ones too fugly? Not slutty enough? Not appealing to the male gaze or male ego enough? Jealous that a woman with low personality standards exists? What's up the hyper fixation on them?

“HOW COULD YOU SAY THAT!”

Because a common thing I hear when guys say “I was lied to, women never told me anything about dating!” is that they didn’t realize women wanted men who they are attracted to…….

Women foolishly thought that didn’t need to be said because men also wouldn’t want to be around someone they’re not attracted to and women have never said that they didn’t care about attraction.

The other reason why I say this is because when guys know about “the truth”, its “women like looks and money” but why did someone needed to outright tell you these things? This is something you figure out by just paying attention to society. To women, this seems very weird when men act like that is some ground breaking revelation.

An actual example I remember was a guy saying “women never told me that you had to learn to talk to women, show off you have a personality, and be charismatic”! And I asked “How were you making friends?” Because that’s how women make friends too. Being likable and having a likable personality.

It’s also made me wonder what a lot of guys are doing on dates. Are you just staring at tits and hoping she’s impressed by it? Are you not talking? Are you not having fun? Because most dates, especially early on is just hanging out. 

This is also another blind spot for women. Since women are more social, we can’t fathom having friends that are really just a bunch of acquaintances you do hobbies with.

So yeah. Miscommunication comes from the fact that women assume that all men have the same level of social connections and social skills like women. Its an overestimation on women’s part.

A question was asked “Why should women care that men don't have partners?” 

Certains types of answers stuck out to me.

(My examples will be under automod)

I was shocked…… why are we upset with man hating feminists? Why are men upset with “YES ALL MEN” and “l Choose The Bear” if they’re just gonna prove those concerns right? 

I remember when Andrew Tate got popular conservatives got upset that the response was to give boys seminars on not to be an evil sexist because it’s implying that they’re inherently criminals and morally bankrupt. How about not promoting toxic beliefs as “Masculinity” and you wouldn’t hear so much talk of “Toxic Masculinity”?

If you don’t like being seen as entitled and dangerous, maybe don’t promote your group as being dangerous when they’re not having sex as some biological fact?

This is about getting into what guys are looking for in dating.

If you want something transactional, that’s fine, but why get mad when someone suggest a lady of the night? 

But if you want women to “truly desire you”, doing nice things for a woman or acting like a clown for her amusement is beta bux. Or perhaps men need to actually define what “truly desired” means.

Because if this is about being transactional, why are we pussyfooting? There are definitely women who will not be making you perform niceness for them nor jestering for their amusement. AND fucking after the first date is far more guaranteed.

Going back to getting a explanation on what truly desired means: does that mean you want someone to look at you and as soon as you enter their line of vision, they’re horny for you and basically begging to fuck you? 

Inspired by people claiming that there’s nothing wrong with men complaining. There is. It’s similar to people hear Karens complain. It’s the insistence of always scapegoating.

No one wants to be around somebody who positions themselves as a victim 24/7. As for men, not only is that not manly, that’s not something an adult is expected to be doing.

“But Feminists!”

They kept losing to Trump for a reason. Also, Karens. What is the biggest thing people don’t like about Karens? Theyre entitled and they always wanna play victim.

In what universe is that attractive for women to see in a man? That’s terrible stereotypically bad female behavior, why would any woman wanna see that in a guy?

“But they dont speak in real life like they do online!”

The problem is the mindset and behavior, not just words.  Just like Karen’s behavior doesnt end and begin at customer service. It spills out to her neighborhood, her family,  her interactions with strangers, etc,

Also, if a person doesnt have social tact, hiding their true nature is impossible. If you cant identify bad behavior AND justify the bad behavior as other people’s fault, that’s red flag and an indictation you’re not going to identify unacceptable behavior.

What is attractive about a person who always be complains, always think theyre a victim, and never thinks theyre ever in the wrong? 

What types of people would you like around you in general? 

People that you had to talk to and see on a near daily basis, does their temperment and behavior matter to you?

Would you want to hang out with a person who is unpleasant and rude? Would you call that person your friend?

Would you want a roommate that is inconsiderate and self centered? 

Would you want to have caring pleasant mindful family members? Or family members who only do things for you because they want a payment from you? 

Would you rather have a friend that's fun to be around and gives off good vibes, mostly putting a smile on your face?

Would you rather have a roommate that’s respectful, knows what boundaries not to cross, know how to behaves themselves around guests, considers your feelings when doing stuff? 

Would you even want to sit near someone on a train that's always seeking validation?