u/Long_Dragonfly_3067

Image 1 — MJ expressing his views on women in private conversations with Rabbi Shmuley
Image 2 — MJ expressing his views on women in private conversations with Rabbi Shmuley
Image 3 — MJ expressing his views on women in private conversations with Rabbi Shmuley
Image 4 — MJ expressing his views on women in private conversations with Rabbi Shmuley
Image 5 — MJ expressing his views on women in private conversations with Rabbi Shmuley
Image 6 — MJ expressing his views on women in private conversations with Rabbi Shmuley

MJ expressing his views on women in private conversations with Rabbi Shmuley

His belief that women tend to ruin men's lives and Madonna being jealous of him because he's a man are particularly strinking to me.

Michael growing up in an environment where his father and brothers were exposing him to strippers and sex with groupies is relevant to this conversation. Still, as a man in his 40s he hadn't deconstructed the misogynistic beliefs he held.

u/Long_Dragonfly_3067 — 5 days ago

What if Michael just said no to the Victory Tour?

Accepting to go on the Victory Tour ended up changing Michael's life trajectory for the worst. After Thriller's success the most logical career move would've been to go on a solo stadium tour, but Michael's father and brothers were in deep financial trouble and Katherine managed to convince him to go on tour with them to help them get paid.

The tour started on the wrong foot due to the lottery scam that Joseph and the brothers decided to do, which started the friction between Michael and his brothers. Many sources say that there was a lot of conflict and envy between Michael and his brothers, who grew more and more distant to the point where they were barely speaking to each other. Michael would fly on his private jet and stay at luxury hotels, separating himself from his brothers who couldn't afford to do so. According to Taraborelli Michael at one point was hospitalized due the stress of the family tensions.

If it wasn't for this tour the Pepsi accident wouldn't have happened and maybe he wouldn't have developed an addiction to prescription meds (which contributed to the insomnia that led to his death).

I think this tour profoundly changed Michael's relationship with his brothers and his approach to business. A solo stadium tour would've made him earn a tremendous amount of money, but he accepted to go with his brothers and split the revenue. After this decision backfired, Michael became more ruthless with his career decisions: he "stole" Jermaine's producers and bought the beatles catalog knowing that Paul McCartney was trying to get his songs back.

Michael was so frustrated with them that he decided to end the tour early, blindsiding his family. I think this was a breaking point that made Michael become a more selfish person and keep his brothers to a distance for many years. He wouldn't have done something like this for them in the 90s. Even tho it was selfless of him to do it, Michael should've refused to go with them and went on his first solo tour for Thriller. That's what would've made sense for his career and he would've saved himself some serious family and health trouble.

reddit.com
u/Long_Dragonfly_3067 — 8 days ago

Michael Jackson's speaking voice over the years

Michael's voice was noticeably deeper when he was a kid than when he started using that high pitched voice as an adult. It seems like somewhere around his late teens Michael felt uncomfortable with the deepening of his voice and decided to put on that little voice.

It's kinda crazy how deep his natural voice is at 0:39 compared to the voice he put on most of the time. He was very committed to hiding that voice as a young adult. In his later years he seems to get more comfortable speaking with a deeper voice and/or tired of using a fake one.

Michael talking about his voice in the Shmuley tapes: «I did something that was bad. I'm a natural tenor, but I used to force my voice to go higher because I never wanted to grow up. I always wanted to sound like a kid. And when I won my Grammy Award for Thriller, if you listen to me speak, I sound like a kid»

u/Long_Dragonfly_3067 — 25 days ago

MJ's history with Black institutions

Given Michael's self-image issues, his choice of marrying white women and having non-black children, his track record with black organizations is quite interesting. I went on a rabbit hole about his activities within the Black community:

In 1986 Michael set up his foundation with the United Negro College fund and donated $1.5 million to help underprivileged black students access higher education and another 600.000$ in 1988. In 1992 he made an appearance on the UNCF's "Parade of Stars" telethon to help raise money for 41 HBCU's. In 1987 he supported the NAACP's campaign against racism and in January 1993 he made his first appearance at the NAACP Image Awards. He made another appearance the following year to claim his innocence after the allegations.

He was being supportive of the black community and standing up for good causes. But his association with the Nation Of Islam was so odd. In case you don't know, the NOI is an organization based on black nationalism and an altered version of Islam, that advocates for the creation of a separate state for African-Americans. They're highly controversial for antisemitic, homophobic, sexist beliefs and hate speech against other races. I don't think Michael believed in most of the stuff they preach, which is why his involvement with them is weird. Allegedly his association with the group's leader, Louis Farrakhan, began in the 80s. Farrakhan claimed that in 1995 Michael agreed to perform at their Million Man March, but after his management prevented him from doing so Michael pulled out and quietly donated $100.000 to the event.

He was publicly associated with the NOI for the first time in 2003, right after the Neverland raid. Former members of Michael's camp including Grace Rwaramba claimed that NOI members took over Michael's personal security and were involved in his legal and business affairs, often taking advantage of him financially. NOI initially denied any involvement with Michael, even tho it was true. Tom Mesereau said that he made Michael cut ties with the group out of concern for media scrutiny and the bad impression it would make on a predominantly white jury from a conservative area.

His involvements with black institutions don't change my mind about the self-hate I think he had, but it shows that his relationship with blackness was probably more complex than many people think. He could've been overcompensating or only hating his own physical blackness while being proud of his cultural identity.

u/Long_Dragonfly_3067 — 29 days ago

Why did MJ continue sleeping with certain boys as they grew up while distancing himself from others when they hit puberty?

Once Wade Robson, James Safechuck and Jason Francia entered puberty, the "sleepovers" ended and MJ limited contact with them and moved on to other boys. But I'm confused as to why this wasn't consistent with the other boys. Brett Barnes slept in his bed until the age of 19 and in 2006 Michael flew him to Bahrain. Similarly he kept the Cascios and Omer in his life as adults. Why do you think that is?

reddit.com
u/Long_Dragonfly_3067 — 1 month ago

Speaking in absolutes about MJ's (or anyone's) sexuality is wrong.

I find a lot of the discourse around his sexuality lazy and at times in bad faith. Some fans try hard to push the narrative that MJ was this 100% straight womanizer that could've never been interested in the same gender, mainly because they believe it counters the idea of him possibly molesting young boys. But just like you can't assume that he didn't like the same gender, it's also wrong to assume that be couldn't possibly be attracted to women. It's similar to what fans do: to validate the allegations some people claim that he has never ever been attracted to women in his life (you don't have to believe this to believe the victims) when there are signals that he was, and even if you don't believe those you still can't know for sure the extent of his attraction to women. Sexuality is a spectrum, and him speaking in a feminine way or looking androgynous doesn't prove lack of attraction to women. Him being attracted to women also doesn't prove lack of attraction to men. I say this because both of these points were being made under a now deleted post from another user. I personally believe that he did like women but wasn't necessarily straight. I think his love for Diana Ross was real, and he expressed it both privately and publicly for more than 2 decades. But at the end of the day sexuality is complex and claiming that someone was 100% straight or 100% gay is tricky, especially when it comes to someone who we don't fully know.

reddit.com
u/Long_Dragonfly_3067 — 2 months ago

MJ had kids from a white woman but wanted black women to be their mother figures

Michael chose to have white children (plus Blanket who doesn't look half black either) but cut their biological mothers out of their lives and wanted them to be raised by black women. He chose Grace Rwaramba (who was previously his secretary) to be their nanny. Wanted his mother Katherine to take care of the kids in case something happened to him (not that surprising, but still wouldn't let Debbie Rowe raise them). And in his will he wrote that in case something happened to Katherine, he wanted Diana Ross to be their guardian.

According to Paris, Michael was telling them that they were black and should to be proud of it. There was a point where Michael was getting closer to the black nationalist group Nation Of Islam, known for their anti-white and anti-jewish sentiments, which caused Debbie Rowe to sue for custody of her white jewish children.

It's interesting how Michael didn't want to pass down his genes and disliked blackness on himself, but wanted his kids to identify with black people and be around them. He clearly had issues with body dysmorpia but I don't think this shows a disdain for black people as a whole.

u/Long_Dragonfly_3067 — 2 months ago

What are the odds of the theatrical release of a concert film?

After the success of the biopic and Michael's increased popularity among younger audiences, studios might want to make money from restoring the footage from some of Michael's concerts and making a concert film. For us younger fans, watching a Michael Jackson concert in a movie theatre would be the closest we'll ever get to seeing him live and i would die to watch the bad or dangerous tour on a big screen! Do you guys think that this could happen after the release of the second biopic, or would it be counterproductive as Michael could end up oversaturating the media?

reddit.com
u/Long_Dragonfly_3067 — 2 months ago

YouTube channels recommendations

Hi, new fan here! Can anyone recommend some good YouTube channels that post archive footage and accurately cover Michael's career and personal life?

reddit.com
u/Long_Dragonfly_3067 — 3 months ago