I feel I need to say something. It’s weird that when people analyzing Michael, other Jackson family members not named Joe get pulled into it. It’s weird how a topic and post about Michael’s appearance on the You Rock My World music video somehow makes someone bring up Janet and Latoya, even though they have nothing to do with that particular video shoot. I feel like some who criticize the Jackson family want an opportunity to throw sly digs towards his other family members on the guise of being “concerned”, you guys are no different than MJ Stan’s who constantly hate on family members (sans Joseph). I do wonder the racial make up of this subreddit.

I find a lot of the discourse around his sexuality lazy and at times in bad faith. Some fans try hard to push the narrative that MJ was this 100% straight womanizer that could've never been interested in the same gender, mainly because they believe it counters the idea of him possibly molesting young boys. But just like you can't assume that he didn't like the same gender, it's also wrong to assume that be couldn't possibly be attracted to women. It's similar to what fans do: to validate the allegations some people claim that he has never ever been attracted to women in his life (you don't have to believe this to believe the victims) when there are signals that he was, and even if you don't believe those you still can't know for sure the extent of his attraction to women. Sexuality is a spectrum, and him speaking in a feminine way or looking androgynous doesn't prove lack of attraction to women. Him being attracted to women also doesn't prove lack of attraction to men. I say this because both of these points were being made under a now deleted post from another user. I personally believe that he did like women but wasn't necessarily straight. I think his love for Diana Ross was real, and he expressed it both privately and publicly for more than 2 decades. But at the end of the day sexuality is complex and claiming that someone was 100% straight or 100% gay is tricky, especially when it comes to someone who we don't fully know.

There have been concerns/complaints recently about unfair post or comment removals that have led to questioning whether or not we are actually just a secret Michael Jackson Stan sub in disguise. The answer to that is no, and if this sub ever becomes that, I will no longer be interested in being a moderator. I'm not the person who started the sub so I obviously cannot fully speak for them nor anyone but myself, but what I can say is that I am currently confident that no one on the current mod list is a stan.

We had an MJ defender sneak in and become a mod for a few days and in that time, they engaged in some foolishness while the others (including myself) were away. Personally, I was initially suspicious of them but another mod was very kind and wanted to give them a chance so we agreed to. At that point, they had not done anything wrong of which I'm aware.

Unfortunately, they behaved poorly and have since been removed. I have done my best to reinstate those comments that were removed by that mod.

THAT BEING SAID. We are not a snark sub, nor do we appreciate snark-like behavior. Speaking for myself, every time an anti-MJ comment is removed, it is not done because I just adore him so much and can't stand people talking poorly about him. It's because what was said was either not constructive, unnecessarily inflammatory, framing speculation as irrefutable fact, or some other violation of our current rules. Not every anti-MJ talking point is going to fly just because. The point of this sub is to critically examine him from a psychological standpoint, not to vent your anger at him/his actions.

We three remaining mods do not always agree, either. After all, we are individuals.

People from LNHBO are also more than welcome to post here. The point of this sub was not to make a direct alternative to theirs. We're not competing and we're not mortal enemies. We just have a slightly different aim/purpose.

Fans are also welcome to post here if they want. Unfortunately many fans have difficulty criticizing MJ in any way, much less serious ones. Sometimes detractors also seem to think that any remotely positive sentiment about anything related to MJ or even correcting misinformation is proof that you're an obsessed MJ fan. Some people think anything negative is good so long as it paints MJ in a bad light.

We would like to avoid either of those traps.

But ultimately, all I can say is that we're doing our best. The sub just started guys. Try to be reasonable with your expectations.

Obviously I am not homophobic. This post is NOT about gay people. It's entirely about Michael Jackson, do not derail. If I seem emotional at all, it's because people are out here saying that he is gay with full confidence, which to me is like saying the sky is green even though you can look outside and see it isn't.

But any time I see someone say he's gay, I immediately lose faith in them. I admittedly have been focusing more on trying to prove his innocence to people in my research, but just from what I've seen, he is like one of the LEAST homosexual people ever?????

There are. SO. MANY. VIDEOS. Posted by his fans and everyone else where he's doing stuff with women. They're not hard to find either. If you look up 'Michael Jackson Flirting' on youtube and scroll past 100 videos there won't be a single one where he's flirting with a man. THAT'S how much content there is about him flirting.

If you ignore his music videos, like THRILLER and DIRTY DIANA and REMEMBER THE TIME and KEEP IT IN THE CLOSET and THE WAY YOU MAKE ME FEEL and BLOOD ON THE DANCE FLOOR and SMOOTH CRIMINAL and COME TOGETHER and SHE'S OUT OF MY LIFE and a bunch others where he gets to interact with a hot woman and dance with her, he still goes into concert and dances with his women dancers in a very close way, let me add that he CHOREOGRAPHS HIS OWN DANCES.

Why are there numerous quotes from multiple people who knew him talking about how he loved to grab ass on women and flirt with them? When he wasn't being recorded at all?

https://www.truemichaeljackson.com/man/michael-and-women/

He burst into tears multiple times while recording SHE'S OUT OF MY LIFE because it affected him so much. He cried so much that eventually they just left his crying in the official recording. Would a gay man do that??????????

There's so many of them where he specifies that the listener is a GIRL. He wrote the lyrics himself.

On a private phone conversation where he didn't know he was being recorded (Stein family recordings), he openly discussed how much his breakups hurt him. He discussed being attracted to Diana Ross though, something he never talked about in public.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkWEiWGvXVk

What kind of gay man hoards hundreds of magazines specifically involving adult women?

What kind of gay man routinely flirts with women? ACTUAL flirting, talking about their beauty and how he wanted to marry them, not talking to a man and smiling like other people on this sub have pointed to and claimed was flirting.

He called looking out for women and flirting with them fishing, and would call them fish, there are many videos of him doing that and many female fans call themselves fish because of this.

Also, in this current internet, stans are OBSESSED with gay people. If they think two guys are hot and then watch the two guys interact, suddenly there's 100000 fan arts and fanfics about htem kissing and anything else, and sometimes if they're sure enough they even start telling the guys to start dating, and they are INFAMOUS for hallucinating homosexual interaction. Celebrities have had to come out as straight if they don't like the attention they're getting. This is why I bring up what MJ's fans think of him. Internet stans watch for signs of being gay like HAWKS. and, unlike tabloids who's job it is to chase whatever gives them views and move on, they watch him for hours even when he isn't performing. I have been in those spaces and not even his stans think he's gay, I have not heard that ONE SINGLE TIME. I have never even seen anyone believing he's bi. This is my own perception though. There's a very small portion that ships him with Prince Rogers Nelson but it's done in a very unserious way, no one believes that irl.

Thomas Mesereau said that he didn't believe that Michael was gay, but he said that the prosecution tried to paint Michael as being gay in order to make it more plausible that he had molested children.

"WELL MAYBE HE'S PRETENDING TO NOT BE GAY"
He isn't homophobic either. He raised money for queer charities in the 90s, it's on his wikipedia. His daughter Paris said he was aware that she was bisexual from a young age, and would playfully tease her about crushes she had from random women in magazines, so why would he bother to keep it a secret?

Evan Chandler admitted to drugging him while he was over at his house in the book and asked him if he was gay. Michael said he wasn't. Not even the fucking Chandlers wrote him saying he was gay.

I can't find the interview at the moment but he says he isn't gay in one.

Also there's this one video where he gets sexually assaulted by a male fan who kisses him on his face, he goes into shock because of it and tries to run as his security pulls the fan away. I don't want to look up the video because I find it upsetting, but it's definately on youtube shorts.

I guess you could argue that he was arospec if his relationships with women seemed distant and didn't always last. But that means he was arospec, not gay. But if the media claimed that he was arospec or aspec instead of gay, they wouldn't be able to claim that he was a pedophile nearly as easily.

I am also shocked, that a subreddit, with the title PSYCHOLOGY OF MJ, still has posts with many upvotes that said he's a pedofile. That's like 75% of why people talk about his psychology and you didn't even do research into the cases???????? NO reading tabloids does NOT count as doing research into cases, those things call themselves 'entertaimnent' instead of news so they aren't legally liable for reporting misinformation, they can make whatever shit up so long as it gets clicks or people to buy it or whatever depending on the era, MJ is far from the only celebrity who they lie about

Any time someone claims he's gay, I immediately think 'wow you have no idea what you're talking about'.

When someone FULLY INSISTS HE'S GAY, I think 'you are in an echo chamber. You do not have any idea what you are talking about, and walk life with a blindfold of confident lies. You are the kind of person who would be told that Jim Carrey was killed and replaced with a clone, or that there are lizard people in government, and if you heard it enough you would believe it.'

Because no offence, the lack of evidence for him being gay is SO FUCKING OBVIOUS AND ABUNDANT I cannot take anyone who says it seriously.

I found a post made by queer people about how hard it is to stay closeted https://www.reddit.com/r/AskLGBT/comments/heptye/how_hard_is_it_being_closeted/ and the top comments all say it is very hard and exhausting. I don't know how you could look at Michael happily being heterosexual and call him closeted. I guess some people might call him bi but no one does that. The only evidence is that he didn't have carefree marriages, but that points more towards him being aromantic or arospec more than gay.

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This week is Jehovas Witness International Convention and I see them absolutely everywhere because the event is held in my city. It made me think of Michael and the psychology behind Jehovas Witness. How much do you lot think JW influenced him and do you think he continued to live by their doctrine even after he officially left them?

Also, can mods please add a flair called "Michael's beliefs" or something.