Michael Jackson’s self-described loneliness and contradictions?

I’m not an MJ hater or a diehard fan. I simply find him really interesting, so I’m approaching this as an unbiased discussion.

I’ve never fully understood why Michael spent so much of his whole life (childhood to death) obsessing over childhood, as well as saying that he was the most misunderstood and loneliest person on Earth, often explaining it all through simply said childhood (as a lot of fans and reporters simply do too). For example, in one of the leaked private conversations, he was asked why he was obsessed with mannequins and kept them around throughout his adult life. He explained that he was too shy to be around real people, didn’t really understand how social peer dynamics worked and said something along the lines of: “They’re like real babies, children and people (the mannequins), and they make me feel like I’m in a room with people.” When asked why he was too shy to be around people and if it was due to his childhood, he again said yes, probably childhood, as he did with most other things and eccentricities, despite sometimes contradicting himself. He (self claim) said (early 20s) he did not have much of a social filter either, which made him embaressed and avoidant in impulsive social situations, as he would cry over people calling him weird and being lied about. He admit in private, though, that he sometimes has felt he is by nature “different” and something “wrong with him”. Even though he becomes defensive against any such claims (that he isn’t “normal”) elsewhere.

But thing is, from everything we know of the full narrative, he didn’t spend his entire childhood doing *nothing* except performing (which he consistently claims he loved and wanted and wouldn’t change). Even his school music teacher said he had a one-track mind after discovering the school choir: music (at 5 or so, before he started performing), and would rush through schoolwork, to sit in his own head and hum/dance with arms, head and legs, while the other kids did their tests. He would still play, do pranks and be part of a class though, collect model trains and use his allowance running between candy stores. He attended school with other children until he was at least 11. Lots of experiences. He had close relationship with some siblings, he had a mother he felt emotional comfort with, and a tutor (Rose Fine) who had that same role when on tour with J5 later on. He met people while travelling and worked with many different people. He was spoon fed to be social from early on. His childhood was obviously far from ideal for “normal” development, especially for a very sensitive child, but I don’t know if it can accurately be described as a completely socially deprived childhood. No one can have it all. He was abused/beaten like his siblings, but sadly many kids were back in those days and areas. Michael clearly internalised every trauma or negative experience a lot more intensely and vivdly than majority of other children back then, including his siblings. Even described a childhood experience of turbulence on the plane as traumatizing him, “a big wound for life”, that would make him hide when traveling and have meltdowns from fear, for a while. And intense emotional descriptions od wanting “to die” because someone said he had a lot of teen pimples (crying over it decades after), while he didn’t see calling Janet a “fat cow/pig” for being chubby/comfort eating was hurtful (until later on, where he said it was mean, but just done cause he loved her and he wanted to “help her lose weight” so she would not get bullied). Said he could be at museums, see a painting and then collapse crying from the sheer overwhelm of visual and emotional stimuli. He seemed to experience everything, including joy and music, 100x the intensity of his peers. And everything stick with him, deeply internalised. Which makes his narrative and judgement a bit confusing to understand at times.

All in all, I believe he still did have a childhood - like his siblings, even if it wasn’t the childhood he wanted or needed or deserved.

Going back to the topic of intense loneliness.
He also said several times that he was so lonely during the Thriller era, and had enough of it, that he would break down and go out into the street, approach random strangers and children playing in parks, and begging them to talk to him, give him their phone numbers and to “please be my friend”. Which is rather sad, but again an emotionally extreme and tragically socially naive approach.

I understand his JW upbringing and that intense fame, which although he continued *choosing* to pursue of own ambition and passion, could leave someone confused about who genuinely wants them for who they are. You can also feel deeply lonely in a room full of people you don’t feel good or connected with. I understand all that. At the same time, Michael had several close friends as an adult whom he himself described as real friends. Children and their families were constantly coming and going from his life. He had showbusiness friends (but he didn’t count those as “real friends”, cause they were not “ordinary people” - but hey, again, you can’t have it all. Most of us can’t have what he considered “showbiz” friends, unless he equals that with work collagues). Countless people loved him, and he had relatives around him whenever he wanted. He lived with his mother and sister and all his animals until he was around 30. Even if the family was dysfunctional in some ways, both Michael and his family said they loved one another. At different points, he also had wives, and later he had children.

In some private conversations, however, despite his big need for company when he needs it: he genuinely seems uninterested in connecting deeper with certain people, and people who don’t share his interests. He is a good listener, patient and often start questioning the other person with genuine concern and enthusiam (sometimes excessively, if a word or phrase catch his attention), but at the same time, he default runs a lot in the same pattern, and he keeps going back to “his” topics when possible, turning to references of his own passions and interests, and wide book encyclopedia. He says that he mainly wants to be friends with elderly people, children and former child stars because they are the only ones who “know what he means,” whatever that means (he just explains it as feeling like telepathy), while other people don’t understand him, and adults are boring, comfusing and says he does not like or understand their social structure. He do want ordinary people as friends, but they “only want him for Michael Jackson” according to himself, even though random people he goes up to asking to be friends, genuinely don’t know him as anything but MJ (so how would they know on the spot if they match beyond his persona, before they get a chance to know him). He generalises about celebrities, saying that he doesn’t want to spend time with them when invited to hang out, because they have nothing in common and only want to go out and party, drink and get high. He says he wants someone “like him”, who share his interests/fixations, personality and worldview. While also understanding him. Again, tough to have it all.

It’s similar with his self described view on romance, he privately says he longs for romance and having “that” intimacy with a girl, and that his brothers never had that issue and married young, but at the same time he doesn’t want a wife, cause it may disturb and take time from his creativity. If he were to have a wife, he wants “his mirror”, a girl who is like him, childlike, gamer, tomboy, wants to help the world and love all children as their own, and “understands him” and him being a perfectionistic workaholic. (Self admitted privately: “There are very few I like who fit the mold. It takes a very special mold to make me happy. I don't understand a lot of things that go on in relationships and I don't know if I ever will. I think that is what has hurt me in my relationships, because I don't understand how people do some of the things they do. And the mean things and vulgar things with their bodies. I don't understand it and it has hurt my [romantic] relationships.”). At the same time, he finds sexuality very awkward (“I would never say this on TV, but if I went on stage thinking about what goes through women’s heads, I would never go out on stage. If I was suddenly to start thinking about what they were thinking about. . . sex, or what I look like naked, then, oh God, that would be so embarrassing. I could never go out. That’s so horrible”), despite seemingly wanting and longing for that too. I understand why all these internal contradictions and overthinkings must be a mess in his head.

It’s all understandable to a degree his life considered, but wanting only people who share his specific experiences, personality and interests naturally reduces the number of possible connections considerably. Which he does seem to understand himself. The life pattern is consistent: described having almost no friends and being lonely over and over while, elsewhere, naming close friends and maintaining a large network of family and acquaintances whom he said he loved. Constantly said that nobody understood him except people who were “like him,” such as child stars (who he initially claimed were the same, yet admitted they were not when pointed out that not all were “childlike”), elderly people, children, childlike people or people with similarly intense, interest-based obsessions and collections. But he categorize all of those. Showbiz friends. Interest focused friends. Family. Children. Fans. Emotional support friends. Then comes to conclusion = no real ordinary/friends. No normal childhood. No normal life. No one understands me. Loneliest person in the world.

According to people around him, and I know that there were also plenty of leeches around him, constantly betraying or taking advantage of him, his seeming forgiving kindness and his sometimes social naivity, which would make anyone paranoid, he frequently chose “depression” or avoidance instead of communicating when relationships became difficult or someone said no, or if they took up serious matters (that honestly needed to be said to him at time). He pushed people away. Often times, he seemed desperate for company, but at other times he withdrew into his own intense passions or appeared not to care about connecting with people at a deeper level, outside his intense social curiosity/need for connection, as well as the feeling that he was sent-by-God to use his talent on a world bettering mission (helping children, take pain away from others, inspire with his “magic”). He also had an intense fear or hurting anyone, animal or person, and their feelings. So he chose run or shut down, rather than confront.

Makes me think his social awareness and understanding in some aspects could be very inconsistent. In one of the leaked conversations. Michael complained that fame made ordinary life and relationships impossible, but like I said, he continued pursuing that even bigger solo career and fame and publicicity and love of fans by own choice (to an extend, the paparazzi and mob show everywhere he went was a disgrace). He desperately wanted company, yet often withdrew or pushed people away. He said he had almost no friends, yet he had close friends, mentors, colleagues, wives, children, siblings and a huge extended family. People actively sought his company, and he had practically unlimited opportunities to meet others in one way or another.

He literally possessed many things that profoundly lonely people would desperately want: a large family (not ALL were bad or bad for him), children later in life, long-standing friendships, mentors, staff, colleagues and people who loved him intensely.

I myself grew up with barely any friends and only one parent/adult I could rely on. I also had a severely disabled brother who craved most of her attention (love him though), and an abusive father who kept us cut off from the outside world during several of my developmental years. I was also addicted for some years, like my father. So, to some extent, I understand isolation and a lost childhood, but at the same time, I don’t fully understand Michael’s narrative and fixation of it (everyone are different, I know). Makes me think Michael was “special” in one way or another, however someone wants to define that. Underneath the trauma responses, extreme fame and his sense of having lost his childhood, there seemed to be something about him that could both be unique in an amazing, pure and beautiful way if nutured correctly, but also unusually complicated and difficult.

How do you people interpret his loneliness?
Was it primarily an internal emotional state, rather than a lack of people around him? Or do you think he helped create and maintain the loneliness he repeatedly described throuhhout his life?

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u/Background_Bee5972 — 1 day ago

Why was MJ so obsessed with collecting photos of babies and children?

He often carried around babydolls at home, saying it’s because he was desperate to be a father (I guess like reborn dolls). But also he literally obsessively collected and hoarded anything with children and babies on. I bet he would even keep a used napkin or candy paper too, if it had a baby on. He couldn’t see a photo of a baby or child without having to get it. I remember him ripping out pages of books and magazines too, going all fixated on it because there was a baby/child on, and also refusing to be pulled away from mobs of fans by his bodyguards, because he suddenly saw some baby/child pictures on a banner he wanted, yelling and pointing at it like a little child himself, despite his shy and timid nature. Calling out of car windows that he wanted the pictures (when he saw fans with baby/child photos, as some also used to get close to him, knowing he would notice and react). Even his hotel rooms he put baby and children posters, adds, magazine pages and what not up. His computer was covered too. Seems to have been a thing fairly early on, besides his animal obessesion, and Peter Pan/Charlie Chaplin among other things, but this baby/child one seemed the most intense of all. Fans kept giving him ads and magazine pages with babies/children, as they knew he collected them. He had a whole babydoll/baby poster room in Neverland, and in his death room, he also had a dresser with target baby ads, and a baby doll in his bed. He openly talked about it often, like it was all the most natural/“normal” thing. That it just filled his heart with joy, but it was clearly an obsession.

I get that he didn’t get much of a childhood and had a great deal of isolation due to fame, and that these things affects everyone differently, but many other childstars, megastars and his other siblings didn’t either, and some had much worse (even though I don’t like to compare people’s percieved and presumed traumas, as it’s no competition) childhoods, and they still didn’t have these obsessions and behaviours Michael did. So I wonder if there was more than that behind.

Did he have some sort of comfort obsession and hyperfixation/extreme special interest, like often seen in autistic individuals or something?
Or what was this all about?

I’m not referring to anything sexual in nature, so please avoid that topic to focus on the unbiased psychology behind this, if possible.

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u/Background_Bee5972 — 21 days ago
▲ 45 r/Advice

Pregnant gf wants to get rid of my pets.

Writing from a throwaway account, but needs to hear from someone else. I feel like I have no good choice here.

M28 and F26. I’ve been together with my girlfriend for ariund 3 years now. When we got together, I already had 2 cats (they are 10 and 14 years old) and a small dog (she is 8 years). I told her from the beginning that pets are something I’ll always have, and my dog is also a therapy dog that I visit nearby retirement homes with. She’s very very well behaved. Last year my girlfriend got pregnant, which was unplanned for us, but not unwanted. She’s 7 months along now, and she’s become increasingly disgusted by my pets. I do everything so she doesn’t have to bother with them. I walk them, clean up after them, they have their own room where they sleep, I clean the house, work extra so she can stay home and take it easy during pregnancy and postpartum (if she wish), and generally do my best to be there for her, the baby, my work, the pets while still trying to hold my own head over water.

She keeps telling me she can’t stand them though and that I should respect her change of heart, and I’m a red flag for choosing pets over her and the baby (I am not, I’m trying to find a middleground so I don’t have to choose). She says she wants them gone, and that if I won’t get rid of them myself, she will. She also says I’m not considering her feelings as a pregnant person, and that the cats disgust her and will get her sick (I alone clean the litter, and even installed an auto clean so there’s never poop in the litterbox). A few weeks ago I had to go on a business trip. Before I left, I asked if she wanted me to arrange a pet sitter. She said no, that it would be fine for a week as her former room mates were coming over. When I got home, she’d taken action and gotten rid of my two cats. I couldn’t believe it. I didn’t believe she honestly meant it. She’d given them to someone local who was looking for cats fir their farm, but my cats are old housecats, one has bad joints, not farmcats. She told me she did it because it would make the decision easier for me, since I ignored her wishes, and that she wants the dog gone too before the baby arrives.

I immediately went and got my cats back, as I had no idea who these people were (and they gave them back when I explained). We had a huge argument over this, I tried to keep calm and not get angry as she’s pregnant, but she started screaming and throwing stuff at my dog (dog was not harmed), and left to stay with two of her former roommates. I called her afterwards and told her we needed to talk. I told her it hurts me that we had this argument, but giving my pets away behind my back, felt like a massive breach of trust. I asked if she could honestly not see my side of it at all. I love her with all my heart, but I love my pets deeply too. They were all I had before she came into the picture. They are my responsibility, they are shelter animals with previous abuse stories. She knows that.

Her friends are backing her up though. They keep saying I’m not taking her pet aversion seriously and that I should listen to my pregnant girlfriend, that I’m showing red flags of being an irresponsible parent and unsupportive partner. At this point I feel like a horrible partner and father to be. I’m not perfect, but thing is thing is, I do take her seriously and listen to her. I just don’t think this is a fair dilemma. I’ve done everything I can to stop the pets from even getting near her. They’re loving, good pets, patient, obedient, clean and well behaved. I can’t neglect them either, so obviously I’m still going to spend some time with them. She got together with me knowing I already had these pets, I kept saying it over and over when we got together, nothing changed from my side. She told me yeah pets are fine, as long as I want kids too. I told her clear from the beginning, which is why this hurts me even more. At the same time, I don’t want to lose my girlfriend or my baby over this, so I feel like I have no choice and already started looking for possible adopters. I’m a grown man, but seriously in tears doing so. And I fear that if I do end up givinh them away, I’ll end up resenting my girlfriend for it, even if I don’t mean to.

My heart is broken. I genuinely don’t know what to do?

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u/Background_Bee5972 — 3 months ago