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I admit that I was naive thinking that just because Gru didn't admit to his previous heists other than the moon and the Crown Jewels, that the AVL doesn't know.

Apparently the prison talent show triggered activity readings on Ramsbottom's computer. An AVL agent describes the AVL's recogniton software which pulls up the AVL Villain Database, which has files for each villain.

Here is Gru's file, which appears after Gru's face is scanned:

Villain Alias: Felonius Gru

Associates: Lucy, Minions, Junior

Crimes: Zodiac Stone, the pink diamond, moon

Weapons: Shrink Ray

Gru is included among "all the bad guys" who have been "brought out of the woodwork". He is described as a "hardened criminal and despicable mastermind who gets everything he wants", and "one of our best undercover assets".

Footage included is Gru punching the shark, the start of the heist at the Lycee Pas Bon, the moon heist, and the diamond heist. The footage used for the "undercover asset" part is Gru showing his AVL agent license and him greeting the Prescotts.

Maxime's crimes include: Junior, and the gas station worker.

Vector's crimes include the Shrink Ray.

El Macho's crimes include the purple Minions. His associate is Pollito, and the computer flags Pollito as "At Large".

Balthasar Bratt's crimes include: the pink diamond, and the bubblegum. The AVL agent also adds impersonation, theft, and destruction of property.

The computer scans for "legendary villains" and identifies each of the Vicious Six.

The computer detects Scarlet Overkill. Her crimes include the Crown Jewels. Herb has no crimes listed, but just evil inventions. The AVL agent instructs to "report back to HQ when you spot" the other villains at the prison talent show.

Since the Zodiac Stone is included in Gru's crimes, that means that Gru's theft of the Zodiac Stone alerted the AVL. So the AVL has been monitoring Gru since he was a child. So it doesn't matter if the AVL eventually recovers a stolen item. It seems to not matter what Gru's intentions were in stealing it, even if he returned it, the theft is just is added to his crimes. It's funny that Gru and Balthasar Bratt both have the pink diamond listed under their crimes.

While the AVL were watching Gru through the security cameras near the end of DM4, the full extent of the AVL watching Gru comes out through this AVL Villain Database.

So to the AVL Villain Database and at least that one AVL agent, Gru is, not was, a villain and a criminal. Ramsbottom must have referred to him as an "ex-villain" which sounds better than to call him a villain and then ask his help to catch another villain.

Ramsbottom also mentioned the moon theft but not that Gru has had a file in the AVL Villain Database for a long time.

This also explains why Gru doesn't ever arrest any of the AVL targets: he doesn't have the authority. They just use him to lead them to their target.

Also, there's an exterior shot of the AVL prison and Gru's car is in the parking lot.

That Gru, an AVL asset, has an AVL Villain Database file, and the agent mentions criminal first, mastermind second, and undercover asset third, implies that Gru is only a good asset to them because he is a criminal and a mastermind. That one AVL agent, possibly more, expects Gru to commit crimes periodically. For awhile, I attempted to read the inscrutable expressions of Ramsbottom to try to see how the AVL views Gru. But an AVL agent explained it herself, so no need to wonder anymore!

My question is, does Gru know how extensive his AVL Villain Database file is, how long they've had one on him, and that he can't even so much as tresspass without the AVL knowing about it?

For awhile I wasn't sure if in DM2 Gru was detained, arrested, or kidnapped. Gru's Most Wanted Poster indicates that prison was and is a possibility for him, but Ramsbottom's intent, Lucy's intent, and Gru's knowledge of Ramsbottom's intent was unclear to me until now.

Ramsbottom tells Lucy to "Bring him in". Even though his ultimate objective is to get Gru to work for the AVL, Ramsbottom uses the language of arrest here.

Lucy introduces herself to Gru as an AVL agent and tells Gru "You're gonna have to come with me." Lucy uses the language of arrest, and Gru using his Freeze Ray indicates that he understands her intent. Lucy tasing Gru also indicates that her intent is to arrest him.

But, after tasing Gru, Lucy stuffing Gru in the trunk of her car shows that the arrest has turned into a kidnapping. This shows that Lucy goes outside the law to fulfill her AVL mission. If it were Silas he would have probably just gotten Gru into AVL custody in a way that would emphasize Gru as the criminal and the AVL as the legal organization acting with full authority, rather than doing something that casts doubt on the legality of the AVL's methods.

Gru jumps on the illegality of AVL's actions, demanding an explanation. But when Ramsbottom brings up Gru's moon theft, Gru answers "you got no proof that I did that", reading the situation as an interrogation. He also shows no recognition of Ramsbottom or the AVL, and in light of Minions: Rise of Gru, he might be pretending not to know Ramsbottom or the AVL because Ramsbottom warned Gru when he was a child "you better stay out of trouble" and so Gru might think that Ramsbottom knows all about Gru's crimes when Gru was a child, too. So he tries to limit Ramsbottom's focus to the moon theft.

Furthermore, when Gru says "you got no proof" and then "after I did do that" Lucy's expression changes and it looks like she notices that Gru just incriminated himself.

While it seems as if Gru is no longer in AVL custody but a potential agent for them, Ramsbottom calls Gru an ex-villain.

But how can Ramsbottom know that Gru is an ex-villain when not even El Macho knew that Gru was not involved in villainy, officially, anyway---anymore? Gru made no official announcement, just threw a birthday party for Agnes and did other non-villainous things.

It's noticeable that at the birthday, one of the Minions has a chainsaw with the "G" logo on it. Even if the AVL had been monitoring Gru since the moon theft everytime he goes outside his house, they would know that Gru still has his villain weapons and has no reason to believe that Gru has retired from villainy, officially or otherwise.

This suggests that Ramsbottom by calling Gru an ex-villain is fishing for information, trying to get a sense what Gru has been up to.

Gru refuses Ramsbottom, giving his explanation that he's a father now and a legitimate businessman. When Gru says that he's a legitimate businessman he does not look at Ramsbottom and has a very evasive look. Even though it's true that Gru is trying to make jams and jellies, that's not the impression Gru gives off at all.

The movie's subtitles puts "Jams and jellies" in quotation marks. Ramsbottom has an amused look. In other words, Ramsbottom's reaction indicates that he does not believe that Gru has become a legitimate businessman.

Gru refuses Ramsbottom and behaves as if he is not in AVL custody, mentioning "instead of tasing people and kidnapping them, why not just give them a call". By bringing up the AVL's methods, Gru focuses on the possible illegality or at least excessive methods they used, attempting to turn Ramsbottom and Lucy's attention away from him. Gru also shoves Ramsbottom, causing Ramsbottom to have a slightly angry look. Gru shows that he has no respect for Ramsbottom or the AVL. This is most likely because of Gru's long criminal career and possibly the fact that Ramsbottom briefly arrested Wild Knuckles. So though Gru isn't officially a villain anymore, he still is proud. Gru then leaves, but is surprised that they are surrounded by ocean. Because Gru is in a situation where he can't easily leave the AVL facility, this is an obvious detention or possibly an arrest. Handcuffs are not necessarily required to indicate that it's an arrest. Lucy, while low-key admiring Gru's villain career, when she tells him to "give us a call" she uses an official, authoritative tone and shows she has authority over him. Gru and the Minions rowing back home indicates the AVL had intended to coerce Gru to helping the AVL and had detained or arrested Gru to achieve that goal. Furthermore, Gru's Most Wanted AVL Fugitive poster and him lying to Poppy that the photo isn't of him indicates that Gru knows that he is an AVL fugitive. Because of his pride, he does not give off the impression that he has been caught by the AVL, even when it's clear he has. Villainy is so natural to Gru that even when he pretends to be caught by the purple Minions to get into El Macho's fortress, and then shows his shackles to the purple Minions to convince them, he says "Curses! Foiled again!" It's in a very exaggerated way since he's just trying to fool the purple Minions, but the purple Minions, working for El Macho, supposedly captured him, and yet he can only come up with a villainous reaction though he's working for the AVL. Gru's deception here is interesting in that Gru has never been imprisoned or even handcuffed, and the shackles seem to be him, aside from making it look convincing, showing that he acknowledges the possibility of him being taken prisoner by the authorities. And yet, Gru seems to be determined that he will never be taken prisoner by the authorities unless he himself decides so and is mocking the authorities. To sum up, Gru adheres to villainous principles: to never admit to a crime after which he did not return the stolen object, to never become too friendly with Ramsbottom, and to never be taken prisoner for real. Therefore Gru is an AVL fugitive, but won't let himself become an AVL prisoner.

Scarlet was clearly a megastar amongst the villains, enjoying the adoration from them, and even selecting her new henchmen in a contest to snatch the jewel from her at Villain-Con. Kevin, Bob, and Stuart suceeding astonished her, but that astonishment never translated into respect. She treated them like children from the start, stayed safely out of harm's way while they had to work out all the details of stealing the Crown Jewels, when she felt they had betrayed her, she tried to do all sorts of terrible things to them, and left torturing them---or trying to anyways since they turned the dungeon into their playground---up to Herb. It seems trying to kill Bob and Stuart was the last straw for Kevin, and this must be the first and last time Kevin hit his boss. The narrator brings up an important detail about all of the Minions' previous bosses: none of their previous bosses were the perfect fit. But Gru as a child was, in the narrators' words, cunning and evil. There is a sense that the Minions chose Gru, not only because he defeated Scarlet, but perhaps they liked the way that he defeated her. It's noticeable the Minions left Scarlet while Scarlet is still alive. For thousands of years, the Minions followed their boss until their boss got killed. But Scarlet was so cruel to Kevin, Bob, and Stuart that the Minions still left her. Because Gru doesn't necessarily crave a lavish lifestyle and as shown by his first air vehicle, the Minions might have figured out that they're in for a downgrade in their way of life: from a castle filled with treasure to an underground lair. From beautiful and sleek environs to unglamorous and utilitarian ones. They decided to follow Gru even though he was still a child and had only gotten started with villainy. The Minions were promised a reward by Scarlet but were instead punished, and the Queen gave them a reward, but the narrator said there was something missing. Kevin wants more than just the approval of just any powerful figure. When Gru announces the plan for the moon theft, the Minions cheer loud and for a long while. Following Gru has paid off for them. Gru wanting to become the greatest villain of all time fulfills the Minions' drive to be in the service of the biggest and the baddest villain. It elevates their status as henchmen as well. The Minions have a different relationship with Gru than with their previous bosses. While they try to put their best foot forward initially, to get Scarlet's approval, they are more relaxed around Gru, even taking out their weapons and Dave firing his during Gru's speech. Kevin, Bob, and Stuart get weapons from Herb that are not regular weapons, but it's noticeable the Minions with Gru have a lot of regular weapons. While Scarlet does not take the Minions seriously, Gru calls them "guys". Gru grew up with the Minions at his back. Gru doesn't judge on appearances but on skills. On heists, Gru brings one or two Minions, and their function in the heists are more of partners. When Gru steals the shrink ray, though one of the Minions grabs it, Gru is the getaway driver. So if something were to go wrong, he'd know right away. One Minion is his co-pilot, firing the automatic weapon at Vector's ship. So Gru and the Minions work together on heists. Gru stole the Crown Jewels in front of a crowd of people, but most of his heists seem to only attract attention from newspapers after the heist happened. Gru has initially such a low profile that no one can see him coming to steal the Vicious Six's and Scarlet's stolen treasure until it's too late, but even as Gru starts to frequent the Bank of Evil and becomes known amongst villains, he seems to maintain a relatively low profile. As an adult, Gru has never been shown at Villain-Con. It is unlikely that if he went to subsequent Villain-Cons, that he took center stage like Scarlet did. The most that Gru has earned in terms of notoriety, is respect from other villains and shocked reactions from the press, but never adoration. The closest he gets to adoration is during the plan for the moon theft, when Gru raises the platform he is standing on and opens the roof to time the appearance of the moon with his plan to steal it, and the Minions are cheering. But only the Minions are cheering for him. Before Gru froze Vector's head, Vector did not interact with Gru like a serious rival. Because Gru's heists aren't as flashy, his heists haven't been headline-worthy in a while, and Perkins wants his own son to be top villain, while Gru is certainly villainous amidst a non-villainous crowd, amongst villains he's blended into the background, and nothing less than committing the crime of the century can launch him to the top of the villain ladder. Scarlet's motivations are ironically, less villainous: that she wants to be Queen because she did not have nice things as a girl and the other kids mocked her. But she becomes the cruelest supervillain from that motivation. Bob giving her a tiny crown satisfies her aspiration though. Gru only satisfies his ambition by actually stealing the moon. Gru, who stole the Jumbotron and small versions of monuments, stole the actual moon. Something that has marked his villain career is that other villains underestimated him, and he'd have a long string of failures and then a few moments of genius. Scarlet and Herb stole nothing but the most lavish, most expensive, most glittery, and yet her career ended by the Crown Jewels getting stolen from her by a kid. Gru finished his public villain career with a bang, and he let the moon restore itself to its full size but no one stole the full-size moon from him. No one stole the Crown Jewels from him either, and the Crown Jewels were used to build the rocket. As far as I know, the Jumbotron and the small versions of the two monuments are still in his underground lair, so of the many ways he's been humiliated, no one has stolen from him and kept it. Scarlet at her height was enigmatic, stylish, and never missing a step. Many other villains comment on Gru being not up to par, or even silly. His laugh when he's trying too hard is likened to that of a clown. His adult evil chuckle is pretty sinister, and very understated. But there's a lot of ways he becomes the butt of a joke. But Scarlet has no fail moments like that at her height. She seems like the perfect villain, and is revealed to be not. Whereas sometimes Gru might seem to be an inadequate villain, but in the end he always delivers. The Minions might see themselves in Gru to some extent, as they're always underestimated or not taken seriously, so they not only follow him as their boss but also their friend.

Apparently a lot of people have made videos listing and evaluating Gru's numerous crimes. At least one has made a video including his crimes in DM3 and DM4.

One of the videos is lenient, interpreting Ramsbottom's decisions to overlook the moon theft as a pardon for all of Gru's previous crimes, giving Gru 5 years in prison for the crimes he committed after the pardon.

Another one of the videos is harsher in the length of the sentence, giving Gru 389 years in prison, but is more lenient in reasoning. Though the crimes he committed after he started working for the AVL are included, the video draws a distinction between villain and criminal---the video says he's no longer a villain, but that he's still a criminal.

Then there is the harshest video that wanted to give Gru the death penalty but the law had changed, so the video instead gives Gru life imprisonment for the Crown Jewels theft---even though the video said the British stole the jewel that's on the crown first. Gru gets life imprisonment for the moon theft. This video is more lenient as to the length of the sentence, but harsher with the reasoning: Gru's change of heart and him working for the AVL does not mean he's not a criminal, which though similiar to the video that gives Gru 389 years in prison, this video states that Gru will be dealt with like other criminals and made an example of. Thus it doesn't matter how Gru defines himself or how his children and wife define him, but only how the law defines him. Even though Gru cooperated with the AVL and became their agent, it doesn't mean that the AVL is unwilling to send Gru to prison. Gru's physical freedom is not guaranteed.

This gives an idea as to what is at stake for Gru and why he doesn't go back to full-time villainy after being brought to the AVL: as an AVL fugitive having committed many crimes, Gru's already facing life or even centuries in prison.

It also shows, though most of Gru's crimes are not necessarily the most heinous, the sheer amount of crimes that Gru has committed gives him the possibility of a longer sentence than the Minions and Wild Knuckles combined. Gru's consistency in stirring up trouble is most likely why the Minions still follow Gru.

As a child, when Gru knew that telling the truth will get him attention from the authorities, his lying was noticeably better than usual.

First instance: On the heist with Wild Knuckles. First he wasn't good at it but when Wild Knuckles was falling out of character, Gru kept the ruse going long enough for them to get out of the bank.

Second instance: Though Gru was relieved to see the hero agency show up because the Vicious Six tried to kill him---and in a way just as gruesome as Wild Knuckles had tried to kill him earlier---his show of relief allowed him to play innocent and cover his tracks as to his heist with Wild Knuckles. Even though the hero agency would most likely not believe that a kid stole the zodiac stone, he didn't gloat about his and Wild Knuckles' heist and thus was able to slide under the hero agency's radar undetected. His sad, somewhat surprised reaction to Wild Knuckles being taken away by the hero agency indicates that he learned then what happens when supervillains get caught, even the one he cares about.

Second instance: Gru did not reveal that Wild Knuckles is still alive.

Third instance: When the head of the hero agency warned him, Gru lied convincingly that he would lead a good, honest life, and went right back to his scheming look as he walked past him.

When Gru reunited with Wild Knuckles, Gru said that he couldn't wait to fake his own death to avoid the authorities.

Up until Gru learned to lie well, his emerging supervillain skill was, aside from his cheese ray and his other signature skills, was cheating at arcade games, which although is a useful supervillain skill, isn't as important as him being able to evade detection and capture.

Watching this film in light of the Despicable Me series makes me wonder how often does Gru let information slip, such as admitting to Ramsbottom that he did steal the moon. Aside from that being a humorous moment, he had probably figured that he was not in immediate danger of arrest considering the hero agency had only sent one agent after him whereas as a child he saw the entire hero agency capture the Vicious Six and Wild Knuckles. It could be that Gru became less shrewd after retiring from supervillainy, but in Despicable Me 3 and 4 he lies well or at least doesn't disclose any of his unlawful activities while those activities are still ongoing.

Several of the lyrics from Double Life may be interpreted to suggest that Gru did not get any less shrewd.

"It doesn't matter to you if you get heads or tails"

"Lie detector time"

"Do you feel bad when you lie?"

"So what have you done?"

"Some of your dirt has come to light"

"Who will you be tonight?"

"Who will Gru be tonight?"

"So I'm sorry but you have to choose a side"

"Before the spinning stops you must pick a side"

This leads me to theorize that Gru plays up his unconvincing lying to throw others off his scent. He did use a comlpletely unexaggerated, normal tone when he said "Oh sorry, I---" while he turned to the side, moved his left hand to his coat then suddenly got his freeze ray out of his coat with his right hand. Though Lucy remarked that he shouldn't announce his weapon before he uses it, him talking with Lucy normally seconds before he pulls out his freeze ray, and even misleading her from what side of his coat he'll pull his freeze ray out shows that he was able to hide his intentions.

This might be why Gru's the object of so much slapstick humor throughout the series. Even as an agent of the hero agency, he still looks like a bad guy, still acts like a bad guy, and to a certain extent still is a bad guy, and thus he goes through humiliation which the other characters are not subjected to. What Gru goes through during the bubblegum scene in Despicable Me 3 was initially shocking to me, because Gru is the protagonist, but maybe less shocking considering he is not actually enobled by his actions in service of the hero agency.

In fact at least twice Gru used the agency in order to settle petty grudges between him and another supervillain.

When Maxime called him a coward hiding behind the league, Maxime implies what the league is for Gru: a shield. Gru uses the agency to shield himself from fighting Maxime directly. But Gru also uses the agency to shield himself from from answering for all his previous and occasional current unlawful actions. As long as he cooperates with the league, he never goes to prison. From the perspective of a supervillain, that is despicable indeed.

Thus it seems that though Gru did not want to work for the league initially, it seems to have become the only way for him to continue to avoid the authorities. And it seems he lies badly or well, depending on what his intentions are.

Gru's last lines at the end of Despicable Me 4 are also telling: "All for freedom and for pleasure". This he sings by himself, while Lucy joins him on "nothing ever lasts forever".

Similar to Minions: Rise of Gru, where Gru as a child knew exactly what he was doing as he played innocent in front of Ramsbottom, Gru's solo lines that he sings explains why he has done all the things he has done, both the bad things, and the good things. This to me, affirms there's an intentionality in his actions, and him working for the league on any given day or him embracing his supervillain ways depends on what mood he is in.

Possibly Gru is the first supervillain I have seen with that amount of flexibility in his allegiance, since he does not truly ever pick a side, and it's his lying that enables him to keep his freedom, physical as well as who he chooses to associate with, and allows him to do things for pleasure, as any proper supervillain does.

I've read numerous opinions on how the Double Life theme was not relevant to the movie. But in fact it has summed up the entire series, including the sequels.

Despicable Me: While he becomes a good father to Margo, Edith, and Agnes, the heroic thing he did was unintentional. His status by the end is murky, something like neither straight-up villain but certainly not a hero.

Despicable Me 2: the classic monster is recruited to go after the other monsters theme, or in this case, former supervillain goes after other supervillains. He is a fish out of water, and his presence is barely tolerated by the hero agency. It's implied by the hesd of the hero agency that this was the perfect time for him to change his profession or else he'd have been the hero agency's next mark. He is less moved by a sense of heroism and initially accepts the job because he misses the thrill. At that point, his hands are tied. He can never return to full-fledged villainy because he is surrounded by people already suspicious of him who are watching his every move. His boxer shorts being images of smiley faces shows how he has even changed part of his aesthetic to fit in his "heroic" role.

Despicable Me 3: The hero agency is very quick to fire Gru and Lucy, showing that Gru is a liability. Even though he goes on the heist with Dru on false pretenses, it demonstrates how easily Gru weaves in and out of his two personas. His black boxer shorts with images of skulls on them shows his ambivalence. His money was running out and he really only has two options in terms of jobs. One wonders what he would have done if the hero agency refused to take him back. Also, though he is "heroic", he isn't above lying to his brother about why he wanted to go on the heist, and shaming his father's legacy. Mel's rebellion makes it clear that Gru must live with the consequences of his choices, and the result is a much reduced amount of Minions. Though they come back to him in the end, it's after Gru has shown he is still perfectly capable of his madcap feats.

Despicable Me 4: The opening scene with Gru driving fast up a mountain in a supervillain car with Double Life playing drives home Gru as an ambiguous figure. Despite him doing "heroic" things in the last two films there's never a sense that this character has conpletely ever left his old life behind. He just has too much of a drive, a hunger. Even though he facilitates the capture of another villain at his alma mater, they have a personal history and so ego is at play here. Poppy's blackmail forces Gru to go on a genuine heist. The theft of the honey badger is more significant than at the decline of his supervillain career, when he was stealing miniature landmarks from Las Vegas. After Poppy successfully blackmails Gru and he is on the bean bag chair in the treehouse, Gru's lack of enthusiasm for the heist is that Poppy's just a kid, so what would she know about heists. Gru's the jaded expert in supervillainy, and he noticeably doesn't toss moral platitudes at her. His motivation at this point seems to be stability as his home life and work life is going great for him. Unlike Gru's heist under false pretenses with Dru, let me know if I'm wrong but Lucy doesn't find out about Gru, Poppy, and Junior stealing Lenny. Hence Double Life is relevant here. Furthermore, in the final scene in the prison, the song is "Everybody Wants to Rule the World". There seems to be an understanding between Gru and the imprisoned supervillains that he has never truly ceased to be one of them. And because Gru got out of supervillainy just in time he never had to pay for any previous unlawful actions. He embedded himself in the hero agency, enjoying the comfortable lifestyle of not being on the run from the authorities and the stability of family life, while keeping the full gamut of his supervillain skills and style which has resulted in him pulling off two heists. It is in this way that Gru succeeded in becoming the greatest supervillain ever and in his own way, has taken over the world.