u/Lunarsault

Chapter 13 Story, and Thoughts about Merel and Ms. Stranger (Chapter 13 Spoilers)

Just finished Chapter 13 and the ensuing anecdote, and before I say anything else...
I really, really liked this chapter. Now, please be aware, I will be talking in detail about most of the critical plot points of the following chapter, so PLEASE do not read on if you haven't beaten it yet.

First of all, the scale of it was really awesome. I really enjoyed the fact that we had so many side-lined arcanists come back. IT was cool to see the Laplace members contributing tools and gadgets, (but not too much attention cause to be frank, they've had alot of spotlight lately). Seeing Druvis take more of a commanding role after being left in a purely supportive role since the early chapters was awesome, and really had me feeling a new respect for her character. Regulus and her general shenanigans, seeing Nautika come in and be an absolute powerhouse was amazing, and even Eagle and J coming back to have some story relevance.

But obviously, the meat of the story that was really gripping, was Ms. Stranger, and Merel. Ms. Stranger had always been an exciting character since her very induction, starting with the Kayla mystery regarding Argus, and escalating to the Free Breeze hostage situation. I'd always considered her a very well-written character, especially the fact that her actions were SO deliberately balanced between acting cruelly and sadistically, and also minimizing as much damage as she could to ensure her cover story. Her reveal in C10 to be the eponymous Moth, and her ensuing aid in the conflict made her a really fun character, and a lot of people have been waiting to see her become playable.
And honestly, I think the reveal of what she was in this chapter, a forcibly wiped and re-indoctrinated soldier meant to pick up and discard identities at the Foundation's whim was everything I was hoping for. She had guilt, she had resolve, and more importantly, she had a disdain for not only Manus Vindictae and their casual cruelty, but also the Foundation and their callous indoctrination of soldiers to act as their front-line.

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Her whole life, the life as SHE knows it, has been in service to a cause. And that's not to say of all the previous lives, previous memories she's had erased. In this moment though, she chooses to fight. She risks her own identity, dons the mask, and goes to save not the Foundation, but the people inside it from an ordeal that she blames herself for. That she should have caught, and seen, and protected them from.
Miss Stranger rightfully calls out the Foundation, the Foundation that pulls in only a staggeringly tiny handful of adults and soldiers who will fight and die for them, and then otherwise? Children. Children too young, too innocent, and too naive to understand the worlds they've been ripped from.
A great example of this is Eagle. Eagle is deemed 'too old' to enroll in the SPDM, and thus is protected by the Storm by X, and then subsequently Lorentz Butterfly, both making sure she is educated and trained to survive in the coming world. Do they have an Agenda? Eagle is a soft-member of Institum Lorentz afterall, a shadow organization operating within Laplace. But, above all else, they encourage uniqueness. Individuality, identity, and the ability to operate outside of the restrictions and mandates of the Foundation. If not for X and Lorentz, Eagle very well might have been lost to the storm. Simply due to being too old to fall for the Foundation's brainwashing.

And this is an excellent bridge to Merel herself. Merel has always been the rebel, the odd-one out of the foundation. She bears a lot of resemblance to Vertin herself in her childhood, someone who was endlessly curious, who wasn't able to sit still and simply take the Foundation's words at face value.
Someone who would sneak away to doodle in books in invisible ink, drawing designs of fantastical creatures and dreaming of an exciting adventure.
That is, until the Foundation slowly but surely beat that spirit out of her.

Merel is perhaps one of the youngest soldiers in the active front, and has maybe one of the most traumatizing service records at that. She was present for the Antarctica Mission, helping Ulrich to mitigate the flood while literal end of the world approached, suffering Storm Syndrome in the process. She was an active participant in the new WW1, seeing active violence and combat on the frontlines. She watched Charon get captured and even got shot, narrowly surviving a freezing river and subsequently torturing herself over the fact that her friend and rescuer was suffering through a MUCH more real torture. And even when she's finally granted relief from the front, she, along with only two other people is solely responsible for the lives of all the new enrollees in the SPDM.

When compared to Miss Stranger, it's easy to see how Merel is another example of a life that was taken by the Foundation, and groomed exclusively for war. She watched the end of two eras rage around her, and both times she fought to protect the lives of so many people who couldn't fight for themselves. But, where Merel differs from Miss Stranger, is her fear. Merel, moreso than any of the other character's who we've grown accustomed to risking their lives, is afraid. So very, very afraid of the conflict she has been thrust into. From the very beginning she never had a choice. Her school life was tumultous and rocky, and yet somehow she ended up enrolled into the Vigiles, a cracksquad of arcanists working directly with law enforcement in each era. While it seems like she might fail out of that, she's then drafted into Creius's XII squad, a band of humans and Arcanists who are often put into dangerous missions in the direct field. She tries to desert, only to be given a 'tracking serum' and immediately put back into active combat, eventually leading to her being stormed. But Merel, for all of her fear, and all of her dismay at being actively forced to fight, is an incredibly selfless individual.

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It's Merel who ultimately decides to brave the SPDM's central tower on her own, to get the Doves necessary to save the many children who are defenseless in the library. It's Merel who ultimately gives her resources to those children, and willfully distracts the Manus so that they have a chance of bringing those life-saving resources to the people she's fighting so hard to save.
And what defines Merel ultimately, is the fact that despite that paralyzing fear, she KEEPS fighting.
Her final run to the safe-zone, after saving so many, is tragic because Merel is still possessed of that very fear. When reading it, I hoped that she would find resolve, or even peace in the people she had saved. That she be content in the knowledge of saving so many lives. But that's not what happens.

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In the end, Merel is reversed crying out for Vertin to save her. That she didn't have enough time, that she wanted so much more to life than this constant fear, and the struggle to survive. She is mourned by her friends, given accolades, and ultimately honored by the Foundation that sent her to her doom...but so what? Merel is gone.

And that brings us to Rhiannon. Now, I'll admit. Rhiannon's introduction is almost...insulting. We just saw Merel give everything she had, and push herself to the absolute limit, and still lose it all. So it feels strange to see this happy-go lucky girl, who seemingly lives a life of peace and harmony in this new Era, devoid of the girl that many players came to love.

And then I played Rhiannon's anecdote, and saw her actual story.
A girl who lost her family at a young age. A girl who blamed herself for leaving her family to die, in a bloody, fiery conflict that was thrust upon her, despite doing no harm. A girl who blamed herself for her cowardice and weakness, all the while seeing it as her duty to atone for all of her failures.
I saw Rhiannon's anecdote, and I saw not an entirely different person wearing the same face, I saw Merel, with all of her fears, and her worries, and her sorrow.
Rhiannon is given the choice to simply forget the world, to live in isolation and hiding. To simply cower and never again face that which haunts her.
But she doesn't.

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She makes the same choices Merel ultimately did. To fight. To reclaim her home, to fight for an endangered species that cannot defend itself, much like Merel fought to defend those children who were unable to fight back.
And unlike the Merel in front of Vertin, Rhiannon succeeds. She fights back, everything locking into place at the last possible moment, and saves the world and home she loves.
And ultimately, she chooses to go back into the world.

Consider Miss Stranger, once again. She's already lost so many lives. So many of 'herself' have been lost to the Foundation, but now, finally, she has been given the chance to live. She can keep the self she is, right in this moment, and try to grasp something that has been outside of her grasp for so long.
And in that same vein, I don't think Rhiannon was simply the loss of Merel, not an entirely new person with a different face. I think Rhiannon is Merel's wish, the wish she had of being stronger, of being someone who could save the day, and survive into the next to enjoy it. To complete her promise with Vertin of Sonetto, to meet up after the storm and move into the new Era together. Someone who fought, conquered, and became stronger than the fear that gripped her heart for so long.

And, more importantly...recall the 'Tracking Serum' Creius injected into Merel. Now of course, when it's first introduced we assume it's simply what they call it. A serum with which they will track the wayward Merel if she tries to escape again. However, when Creius is interrogated about said serum later, it turns out that he lied about it's actual purpose. It was actually a product of the 'Vessel Ensoulment' procedures, the ability to store someone's psyche within their body, even after the storm washed them away.
And, more importantly, remember what Vertin sees at the end. And what Vertin ultimately uses to track down Rhiannon in the new era. The golden thread hanging from Merel, being washed into the new era. So rather than Merel simply being gone, maybe, just maybe, she's just waiting for those memories of a previous era to come back to her.

Anyway that's all I had to say about this chapter in this post, and I hope everyone enjoyed the writeup. Regardless of how you feel about the ending, I think we can all agree Merel was a heart-wrenching and wonderful addition to the story, and her constant struggle despite adversity is something we can all aspire to.

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u/Lunarsault — 10 hours ago

Rien's Treatment of Araya

Rien's treatment of Araya is one of the most controversial aspects of his character, for good reason. He had her assume the role of the Dihui Star, intentionally orchestrated events so that Ryoshu would come to battle her, and even orders her to speak in the tone of the deceased Shiomi when in the presence of others in the HOS.
Now, I've seen this portrayed as Rien either being callous, or simply not caring about Araya in any way despite her close relation to Ryoshu. But I actually think it goes further than that. I think Rien resents Araya, for a reason that is rather nuanced.

Early on in Ryoshu's development, we see that Rien starts to teach her stories and tales that are possibly...not very conducive to the orchestration of the plan.

This is one of the hints at Rien's personal feelings, even as he denies being capable of the 'pity' of the snake. He regrets what he will do to Ryoshu.

This is an interesting warning from Rien. Don't get attached, don't grow to love. When we take it away, it will hurt more. This is important foreshadowing.

We see here that Rien is already growing a bit uncomfortable with the role of the 'snake.' He knows that fundamentally his plan is to raise Ryoshu, have her get attached to Araya, and then ultimately attain the Muga by taking Araya away from her. So why this warning, right now? Why tell her not to get attached?

Rien associates the spiral with Doubt, but remember what he said earlier about cherishing? About love?

Rien's warnings to Ryoshu aren't just warnings to her, they are reminders to himself. Don't get attached. Don't doubt. Don't let this thing take root only to rip it out. And yet, perplexingly, he's warning her here. If he's meant to follow the plan as intended, there's no reason to get Ryoshu to shut herself off. It's in fact, directly counter-intuitive to the plan. And then, most damningly, there's this incredibly odd action that Rien takes later.

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To destroy the lab was Ryoshu's mission. Why did Rien destroy it first? More importantly, why did he do it so overtly?

In fact, I believe that the suspicious nature of this act was intentional. That it was done entirely to make Ryoshu realize it was a trap, that she was being baited to take Araya.

Ryoshu was about to leave, no doubt bothered by the sketchy nature of the situation.

If Ryoshu had seen Araya trapped, had completed the mission on her own and had discovered the child organically, I believe that she would have likewise been bonded to her. But because of Rien's intervention at this moment, she almost left. She almost walked away from her, and damned the plan entirely. If the HOS had later grabbed Araya and given her to Ryoshu directly, there's no chance she would have reacted to it with anything but skepticism. They had already taken Saru away from her after all. So the question is, why did Rien do this?

Recall that Valencina was confused by this seeming conflict of orders. "If he got a prescript, why didn't he tell us?"
What if Rien didn't get a prescript? What if, in a rare moment of independence, he had done this entirely on his own, and made sure that Araya got a good, identifying look at him?
What if Rien had failed to take his own words to heart, and now impaled with the spiral of Doubt, decided that he'd ensure Ryoshu would not pick up a spiral of her own?

To Rien, love IS doubt. They are synonymous. The more he loves his wards, his children, the more he begins to fear his orders, and doubt his place in the index. The index gave him love, and then the index took it away. And the more he gets attached to Ryoshu, despite his own apprehensions, his own warnings, the more afraid he gets. He gives her all the warnings he refuses to heed, and eventually, in an attempt to make sure Ryoshu doesn't pick up the spiral that will one day impale her, acts.
But even this is for naught.

Ryoshu puts the pieces into place, after the illusion is shattered by Lei Heng. This was always the plan.

No doubt Ryoshu assumes that Rien left Araya out there intentionally. A present for her, to ensure she'd be enthralled. And finally the day he was dreading comes to pass.

Despite everything, I don't think Rien is talking about his wounds here. It's the realization that everything he's done has come to mean nothing, and that she will still leave him. He has lost his daughter, temporarily for now, and permanently later.

And so, when Araya comes crawling out of that vault, long after he has taken up the mask to cover his scar, long after his beloved Daughter has left, how does he react to her?

Rien wastes no time. Put her in the role, and she will bring his daughter back.

Rien is condemning her to death. He knows this. This is his most beloved person's beloved daughter, her reason for living.
And I think, when he sees her, all Rien sees is the spiral. This is the thing that caused his Yoshihide so much pain, the object that has lodged itself in her heart. This is what tore his family apart for the second time. And what will break Yoshihide, when it is ripped from her chest
He looks at Araya, doubt personified, and resents her because he was unable to keep her away.

Ironically, he doesn't understand her. He doesn't understand that the same doubt that is plaguing him at this very moment, is what caused her to push that vault open. That the same desperation for love that drove him to act, is what has brought them together.
And he doesn't want to understand. He warned himself not to get attached, and failed for Ryoshu. And he was determined to not get attached to Araya, determined to sacrifice her for one last chance at having his daughter home.
In this, atleast, Rien finally shares some similarity with Roland. In Araya, he finally has someone to blame for his woes, no matter how cruel or unfair his resentment actually is.

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u/Lunarsault — 1 month ago

3.5 Thoughts and Breakdown

I actually had a lot of fun in this chapter, more than I was expecting after hearing some negative buzz about it from the CN side, and there's some really interesting things I wanted to talk about.

First of all, Muriel, or Hummingbird as he was introduced in a Flowing Feast. I find this character really fascinating for a few reasons.
Firstly, the idea of the struggling artist who is trying to recapture a movement that has left him behind was a key theme in Folie et Déraison, Recoleta's chapter. I find it pretty cool that we moved from a Spanish literary movement, to a Mexican one. The idea of passion, the arts, and the changing of society through art, these were all topics that we explored in Folie et Déraison, though Muriel himself found himself more attracted to the people in the movement, than the movement itself.
Secondly, I'm a sucker for a villain who commits abhorrent crimes with absolutely no malice. Once it was revealed that paintings were the foci to commit the serial drownings, I think alot of people would have realized that Muriel was the culprit, but his reasoning for doing so ended up being incredibly tragic. The fact that he thought he was indeed freeing all his old friends, sort of liberating their souls and helping them become their true selves, only to paint them into hollow facsimiles of what they once were--as Muriel himself says, it was a tragedy.

In another thing I absolutely loved, Ramona. I think a lot of people ended up seeing Ramona and being a bit concerned about how her portrayal would be, but ultimately I think she was a really interesting example of a modern medicine woman. She comes off as aloof, distrusting of both the foundations and the gangs in equal measure, but is consistently (albeit begrudgingly) putting herself on the line for both Latham, and the people in Mexico.
Something that I found really cool was the way in that Ramona and Teresita both differed, and were surprisingly similar. The Teresita made of Muriel's cherished memories was supportive, maternal almost, and seen as a grounding presence for both Anil and Muriel.
But, I think early on we can see some of Ramona's traits in her. Her growing distrust with the artistic movement, her attempt to distance herself from Muriel so that she can ensure he's safe, and a stubborn will that forces her to stay on her path, regardless of her own growing doubts and hesitations.
Ramona is similar, the entirety of the story she's doing nothing but voicing her own concerns, stating that solving the murders is not her jurisdiction, that it's not her responsibility to stop the killings, that none of this matters to her outside of her job as a 'cleaner'. And yet, despite everything she says, she's at the center of everything because she can't help but get involved. Despite Ramona's rather brusque attitude, the fact is, everyone in Mexico recommends her because her actions prove the value of her character. Just like Teresita, she is invested in the community she's a part of, and ultimately is unable to backdown, even to her own detriment.
Like Teresita, she is conflicted, but ultimately refuses to strive away from her own path. Like Teresita, she is integral part of the community, even as she tries to insist she's just another nobody. And just like Teresita, she ultimately leaves Muriel behind.

I think this contrasts really beautifully with Lorentz Butterfly herself. Now, I know alot of the critique of 3.5 was centered around Lorentz, but I think she's a very necessary inclusion. A big theme of Patch 3 has been the rapidly dichotomous forces that compose the Manus, and the Foundation. We see separations with Zeno, difficulties with The Hawks and the Doves, the awkward independence of Team Timekeeper, the fractured Laplace trying to recover without Director Lucy, Constantine trying to keep all parties in play without giving any too much power, and of course Igor's Griffon Legion.
For the Manus, we have the different groups pining for Arcana's resurrection and trying to claim power now that she's back, nationalist groups that might be using the Manus for their own personal gains, different apostles arguing over the fundamentals of resurrection and how it can best be used for their goals, again Igor's Griffon Legion who first works with the manus and then betrays them in the next breath, Beryl Bouanich who both assists with the Manus Resurrection ritual, while at the same time feeding the Foundation critical information. The point is, the politics of this patch has been center stage. Each organization is growing drastically in power, both trying to consolidate as many resources, arcanists, and soldiers from each Era, and with it comes the logistical bloat of so many voices.
With all that in mind, Lorentz isn't just a rogue agent that seems to come out of nowhere, rather she's indicative of the many MANY struggles both factions are currently facing, the need to keep these multiple diverging forces in check.

But besides the politics of it, I do want to talk about Lorentz herself. A few of the critiques I saw of Lorentz was that she's too perfect of a mastermind. She's someone who ultimately feels like she stays in control from beginning to end, without any real setbacks or oppositions. Now, if you look at it purely from her objectives, I do think there's merit to this. In finding the pigment, dealing with the manus operation (namely finding the serial killer and dealing with them), and ultimately keeping her identity a secret, Lorentz does it all perfectly.
However, Anil ends up tripping her up at the end. In two distinct ways.
Firstly, Lorentz is baffled by his inclusion in her 'master plan'. Part of her cooperation with him is due to the fact that, as Anil says, she wants to understand every facet of his brain. She pegs him early on as being one of the culprits of the murders, and especially after identifying him as the 'brains' of the operation can't reconcile his aid. Why would such a fastidious killer give so much assistance to the person trying to dismantle his operation?
There's a very telling exchange between the two at the end, where Lorentz mentions that the unfolding of the events as it were was 'boring.' When Anil mentions that he's simply tired, that he was exhausted of watching Muriel attempt the ritual again and again, with no avail, for something that he had truly lost all hope in, Lorentz's immediate reaction isn't condescending. Instead, she seems truly disappointed. Bitter, almost.

A rare compliment from Lorentz, to put Anil in the same category as her.

Lorentz reminds me greatly of an anti-hero from a detective novel, an iconic phantom thief complete with disguises and false identity, that ultimately has no interest in the items she's stealing. Instead, her primary goal is to one-up the opposition. Lorentz of course differs in that she is ostensibly on the Foundation's side, but her actions and demeanor, especially contrasted to Anil's calm and controlled self, create an interesting dichotomy.
The point is, to Lorentz, the thrill is of the discovery, and then the outwitting. In Anil, she sees a kindred opponent. She discovers Anil, and realizes Anil has discovered her, both cooperating while aware that they are firmly on opposing sides. This is the narrative that Lorentz believes in till the end, and following that belief, the reason she's excited for the final confrontation isn't to stop Muriel, or to save Ramona. It's because she's waiting to see what Anil's final card is, his final plan to stop her, and in turn counter it and prove that she is superior.
However, she is unable to do that, because Anil, to her disappointment, is not in fact playing the same game. She compliments him on his 'masterful' manipulation of Ramona, of finding each victim, of hiding in the shadows while he turned Lorentz on Juarez and the Turquoise Serpent Club. She sees someone who is playing the same game of shadows and deceit, and eagerly awaits his attempt to escape checkmate...only for Anil to forfeit without any resistance.

Lorentz fascination with people, with unique outliers, with 'manipulators' and of proving her own intelligence doesn't come off as some sort of infallible super-genius who simply cannot be bested. It comes off as someone who can only understand the world in a SINGLE way, through cold logic and reason. In fact, the second way Anil bests her is in his very simple observation of one of her few flaws. She's color-blind.
While at first this might not seem that significant to the story, outside of a reason for why she couldn't solve the case without Anil's help, I believe this is a very, very telling detail. In a story primarily about art, about the importance of passion, of heritage, of ancestry and color and painted tones and love...Lorentz is a stark outlier. She's completely clad in white and gold, standing out violently from the colorful designs of Mexico. In a world full of passion, that she simply can't perceive. A color that is completely locked from her sight.
Anil's very existence, his name that signifies the eponymous turquoise of this chapter, is what allows Lorentz to finally connect the murders to the mural. Anil's guiding, his sending of her at the Juarez, of his manipulation of Ramona, is what helps her out him as the ultimate criminal. She extracts these details from him, seeing it as missteps on his part, ways that she'll ultimately thwart him...only for it to be revealed that he was using her all along. That his intention was always for her to solve the case, for it to simply be over. She was completely blind to his actual motives, and ultimately was a puppet for him to bring an end to the tragedy that had been plaguing him and his last remaining friend. She could not see the colors of the mural, and she could not see the man she thought she was in competition with. He has bested her, and as he mentions, almost offhandedly...she can't even kill him. Because to do so would prove that she never knew him at all, that he was inscrutable to her to the end. That in doing so, will permanently cement his victory in this one-sided battles of wits.
And Lorentz? What does she do after the events of the case are done? She goes back to the foundation, eager to see Enigma and Ulrich's reaction to her paper. This doesn't strike me as a victory lap, as some people mentioned. Rather, it's almost reminiscent of a child getting ice-cream after failing a test. A sweet treat to cut the bitter.

Ultimately I felt this was a really beautiful story. The characters really sold it, the colors and themes at play were wonderful, and I think the obvious lore implications for the story at large, the Storm, and the different factions of every side are going to be very present in the upcoming patch. If this was the controversial update, I’m quite excited to see the rest of it.

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u/Lunarsault — 3 months ago

Valencina Rodion, and Why She's Saved for Last.

I've been thinking about these two ids alot, and the jokes about them being 'delayed' does actually raise an interesting question to me.
Why these two?

If I had given a guess early on to what order we'd get the nursefathers in, I'd have likely put them in order of 'relevance' to Ryoshu. That's to say, I'd have put Matthias and Callisto fairly early, perhaps Valencina in the middle, and I would have left Rien for last with the capstone. Instead however, we ended up getting a rather interesting inversion of that schedule. More importantly, we got very specific clarification from Matthias's story, namely that our ryoshu ID is not the original 'daughter', and that the original daughter is either dead, incapacitated, or otherwise incapable of being the Sword of the Nursefathers per the original plan.

Now, there's alot of different theories going around about how and why this situation has come to be, and what exactly led to the original daughter being otherwise abandoned and replaced by our 'Yoshihide', but I believe Rodion is being placed last for a reason.

Valencina is special in the canon world in being the only NF (atleast that we see) to physically abuse Ryoshu, and her own apprentice Lucio. Considering her rampant alcoholism, general PTSD from the Smoke War, and her rage and indignancy at being ousted, this is pretty typical. Valencina's abuse is generally a loss of control, her taking her anger out on the victims closest to her. Despite Valencina's abuse, it's worth noting that Ryoshu came out of it mostly in one piece. But, in the other mirror world, the Daughter is mysteriously taken out of commission, and we've still yet to have a reason why. However, in that same vein, we have a sinner whose source material is all about hurting someone who couldn't fight back.

Why Rodion for Valencina? There's the obvious one's of course, Valencina's an alcoholic, Rodion has a penchant for drinking. Both are relatively tall women, physically and superficially there's some key connections here.
But I actually think the reason why they're so interesting is because of the ways that they differ.
Valencina, for all her arrogance, rage, and even self-loathing...has genuine skill and pride. She does have a rare self-awareness, she's capable of both ranting and raging about how she can destroy Vergillius in one breath, and then in the other comment on how messed up it is that she has to be the one to fight the notorious Red Gaze twice. That she's aware of how lopsided the fight ultimately is, against her favor. Despite her general impulsiveness and anger, she's one of the three nursefathers able to utilize Shin and Mang, albeit it at a much lower level than her two contemporaries, Rien and Araya. But the fact of the matter is, Valencina's reputation is well-earned, and her pride is, in my opinion, grounded in legitimate power and skill. She does believe in her own strength, even if she's aware that the fundamentals of her self-destructive habits are limiting her. And she has trained a remarkably adept apprentice in Lucio, and arguably her talents have even helped Ryoshu in the modern day.

But Rodion? Well, one of Rodion's defining traits is being the 'normal' one. Someone without any real fundamental talents, intrinsic potential, etc. Now part of this is manufactured, we can see with identities like Knight of Despair or the Liu Section Chief that she is quite skilled when she puts her mind to it, even remarkable. But the point is this, Rodion, especially as Dante has come to know her, is quite the insecure individual. Someone who fundamentally doubts herself, doubts others, and has a tendency to retreat into herself or even lash out when these insecurities are at their highest.
Someone so insecure, that she might not believe in her ability to ever return to her seat of power. Someone who might not believe that anyone can save her from the hole she's dug herself into, someone who has a tendency to react with violence when she panics, when she's pushed into a corner.
One of the most pivotal moments in Crime and Punishment is when Rodion Raskolnikov kills not the pawnbroker, but her disabled, innocent sister. The spiral of guilt is over not the intentional murder, but one that was done in a moment of desperate passion.

Now, with all that in mind, let's put someone like Rodion in Valencina's position. Someone who was once awarded a position of power, and had it all stripped away. Exiled to a dismal prison, where she's surrounded by individuals who don't respect her, all at the promise of a return to glory that she might not even believe in.
And worst of all? Rodion's teaching someone with 'genuine' talent. Someone who was born with the once in a generation eyes that can perceive time, that has been awarded a legendary weapon solely due to a god-given trait that she was born with. Someone who she is expected to pass all of her skills and prowess that she worked for her whole life to, after Rodion was tossed away like trash.
Valencina knew when to restrain herself. That her impulses had gotten her exiled, that she was free to bruise and batter Ryoshu...but never injure her greatly. No maiming, no breaking. That in order for Valencina to return to the position that she deserved, Ryoshu needed to survive, and Ryoshu needed to be trained. She believed in her second rise to power, and for that Ryoshu was essential to her.
But what if Rodion didn't have that restraint? What if one day, she got so angry that she simply didn't stop?
What if, like her literary inspiration, Rodion hurt someone that simply couldn't defend herself?

One of the pivotal inspirations for Ryoshu, besides Hellscreen, is Rashomon/Into the Grove. A murder case where the same story is being told by numerous individuals, each with their own biases and motivations for painting themselves in a certain light, or otherwise obscuring the truth. There's multiple inconsistencies, multiple details that contradict one another. I believe the uptie stories are a great example of this. We know the victim, the original daughter, the former blade of the Nursefathers. Every detail that has come out of the Nursefather upties has seemingly confused the community more, one story comes out and seems to paint the story in one way, and then the next seems to immediately contradict it and send the debate back up in the air.
Is the 'murderer' the LCE Raid on the HOS?
Is the 'murderer' the HOS themselves, killing the daughter as she tries to escape?
Or is the 'murderer' a bitter nursefather, who finally snapped, and took her anger out on the one person she was supposed to protect? Regardless of what the ultimate answer is, I believe that Rodion's purpose as the one that finishes out this mirror world was incredibly intentional.

There's a certain irony in Ryoshu's inspiring tale, the desperate search for a murderer in a story with so many dead-ends, intersecting so well with Rodion's, the story of a murderer who is currently being choked by their own guilt.
And furthermore, that it would coincide with a man like Heathcliff. A man who was trained to be a servant. Who was trained to be a shallow replacement, who is abused and beaten, but chokes it down because he promises to come back. To take it all from everyone who ever wronged him.
Who would eventually come back and destroy his abuser Hindley with his own vices, alcoholism and a penchant for gambling. An abuser who seems to share many traits with our own Valencina, and now Rodion.

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u/Lunarsault — 3 months ago

New Nursefather Outis, and the Implications.

With the new Nursefather giving us more elaboration on the mirror world's story, there's some interesting stuff I wanted to talk about.
Firstly, the Labor that has to be completed on a pilgrimage, in order for a big sibling to promote to a great one.

Outis's Labor is to slay this lava monster, which has killed a great brother in the past.

I think there's a few important parts of this. Firstly, the monster has killed a Great Sibling. It's something that needs to be avenged due to the severity of the transgression, and notably if it was able to kill a Great Sibling, a simple Big Brother or Sister wouldn't be able to actually handle it. That's why Outis is accompanied by not one, but TWO Great Siblings. Why is that important?
Well, our favorite Big Brother Ricardo, who has been chasing us all over the city, might have finally had his vengeance upgraded to a full-blown labor. Because we just killed the black sheep of the Middle, Matthias. Now, yes, Matthias is a pariah to his own family. They kept him in the HOS, pretty much refuse to acknowledge him, and keep him on standby simply to deal with grudges.
But that's internal politics. Externally, in public, Matthias would seem like any other Great Sibling, a high-ranking officer of the Middle. And if the Middle wasn't willing to avenge such a member being slain, it'd reflect extremely poorly on their reputation.
So I believe that the next battle with Ricardo will be as a part of his pilgrimage, where he will be accompanied by atleast one Great Sibling, though if we're unlucky it might be two. So that should be fun.

Secondly, the other interesting part of this Uptie of course, is the implications for Blade Ryoshu herself. The Clone theory from the KR fans has been floating around, and this most recent Uptie atleast confirmed that our Ryoshu was not the original child of the Nursefathers. That being said, I'm not totally convinced that she's a clone.

This line sound Familiar? Well it's not from Matthias in the original Canto.

Note the mention of being damaged here. Giving birth to Ryoshu had weakened her substantially.

Now what does this all insinuate? My belief is that in this world, Shiomi Yoru was not a failure. Whatever gift of godly perception that she had given to Ryoshu, that she had lacked, was reversed in this mirror world. Instead of being trapped due to her pregnancy, she was being trained and guided by every member of the fingers to become the wielder of Arayashiki. In fact, I don't even believe that Shiomi was the Dihui Star, or at the very least is not at all indicative of the style that Ren Sinclair is trying to copy.

Sinclair's most signature move is his Iaido, something he shares with Araya and Ren. However...

Shiomi explicitly NEVER used Iaido. She would unsheath her blade and keep it exposed for the rest of the combat.

In the Limbus Canon world, this makes perfect sense. Shiomi isn't Ren's teacher, Araya is. And Araya does not fight the same way as Shiomi, she uses Iaido, which she passed down to Ren. Ren is aiming to inherit the title of Dihui from Araya, by learning and perfecting her own style of combat.
Except, as we've learned from Outis's uptie, Ryoshu is the daughter, the 'Araya' in this case. If Pinky Sinclair wanted to take Shiomi's spot, he should be using her style, the unsheathed blade. And yet, as he mentions, he's aiming to become a 'perfect imitation'. Not of his master, but of her daughter, the actual Dihui Star.

Every star of the Pinky that we know of at this point in time has an iconic weapon. Lei Heng has his Tiantui star blade, Zilu has the giant greatsword wrapped in chains on her back, the Dihui Star has her signature blue-steel Odachi.
It is the weapon that defines the star. And in a world where Shiomi has her legendary perception, why would she bother using the Dihui Starblade?
She'd use Arayashiki. The weapon specifically tailored to her, the only person capable of using it. Which would not make her the Dihui Star, it would make her the Tiansha.

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u/Lunarsault — 3 months ago

Nursefather Yisang vs Rien, and what it means for Ryoshu.

With the release of the latest Ryoshu ID, I've been reading over the uptie stories and trying to figure out just why this mirror world changed so radically, and what caused the limbus variant nursefathers to turn out the way they did. Unironically, I want to put most of the blame on Yi Sang.

Now, whenever we have a mirror world ID, there's always the question of how to separate the person they're based on, with the sinner that is currently occupying that role. Having seen quite a bit of Rien, and then having seen the radically different ways that Yi Sang acts from him, I do think we can start to extrapolate a few of the differences between the two.

First of all, something that a lot of people pointed out, is the fact that Yi Sang does NOT read picture books. Why is this important? Well, one of the distinguishing traits of Yoshihide in hellscreen is that he suffers from Aphantasia, the inability to visualize things mentally. That's also why Rien is so enamored by picture books specifically, and why Valencina mentions that when speaking to him, you have to be incredibly specific. Rien can only picture what he can see, and only understands what is spelled out, he doesn't seem to parse ambiguity.
Yi Sang, on the other hand, reads tragic stories to Ryoshu, as evidenced by this line in her uptie.

https://preview.redd.it/onm5x0t6961h1.png?width=1041&format=png&auto=webp&s=c115c3226cd96f89e8fbba5029ad1bd5ad954c06

Now, if you recall, it's not that Rien's stories weren't tragedies. Most of his stories about cute animals and other creatures were implied to be aesop's fable-esque, no doubt with tragic endings that were meant to instill morals. So why didn't Ryoshu remember them as such?
Rien would never FINISH the books. He'd simply read it from the start, to the middle, and shelve it, never to be touched again. Yi Sang, in another large departure from Rien, reads the entire thing to her, horrible endings and all. Why is this important?

Rien's aphantasia is one of his most signature character traits, and I'm going to posit that it's actually what makes him more empathetic than Yi Sang.
Rien, lacking the ability to picture things without explicit proof, sort of suspends himself in willful disbelief. Books might have tragic endings, but as long as he doesn't finish them, he's able to delude himself into thinking that the ending might actually be happy. Until proven otherwise, he can hope. This doesn't just extend to his reading however, this is very similar to his delusions regarding Ryoshu.
Rien isn't an idiot, but he clings onto this ambiguity, this small percentage of uncertainty, in the hopes that he'll be able to stay with Ryoshu after their objective in the HOS comes to an end. He wants Ryoshu to stay with him, that maybe upon becoming the Muga, or even just becoming a blade of the HOS, that Rien can finally keep his family. This is incredibly naive of course, and as we saw in the ending of Ryoshu's uptie, the fingers seemed thrilled that their 'mistakes' had gotten deleted by Arayashiki. And to some extent, I'm sure that Rien suspects his ultimate purpose is to die. But things change, and that small ambiguity does lead to a moment where Ryoshu breaks free from the Muga state, with Araya's intervention...and leads Rien to his earnest plea for her to stay with him.

Now, the morality and abuse of this is not actually what's important about this. I know that Rien's relationship with Araya and Ryoshu is a controversial topic, many of us wondering where the line between actual genuine affection and manipulative abuse begins and ends, but instead I want to switch to Yi Sang. Why is Yi Sang different?
Because Yi Sang is a researcher. To Yi Sang, there is no ambiguity. From the very beginning, he was a man of science, a man who can easily extrapolate the ending from the beginning and middle. Yi Sang does NOT suffer from Aphantasia, and I believe that he has no delusions about what his ultimate purpose in the House of Spiders is. Yi Sang, I believe, WELCOMES it.

Consider Yi Sang's fell bullet Identity. Why does he resonate with this identity and ego so well?
Well, part of Fell Bullet is the act of forgetting your past, using the loved ones of your pasts to pave forward to the future, obscuring everything about yourself in blood and smoke. And there's one very specific line that really relates to this in Yi Sang's uptie story.

https://preview.redd.it/6tkn3otrc61h1.png?width=888&format=png&auto=webp&s=f5ee50a1c946a951922b4d921d8d79abf37c531e

Recall in Yi Sang's actual story, Gubo finds him amid the wreckages of his old life, and keeps him in N Corp to be his assistant. But he doesn't trap him. Yi Sang is not a willing prisoner, but an apathetic one. He doesn't desire to leave, but simply stays in place, unwilling to simply get up and move. His fell bullet bad end follows this, where he ends up willfully joining N Corp, and is given the ego that will allow him to eradicate all the trauma's of his past. I believe that Nursefather Yi Sang is the next step of this.

I believe, that unlike Rien, Yi Sang is actually looking forward to his deletion. He's lost his family, and in doing so forgot them. And Ryoshu, his new daughter, offers him the permanent erasure of his traumas. Complete and utter eradication of the self.
And, as his ultimate goal is complete erasure, he is much more willing to dirty his hands. He won't remember ryoshu, nor will he exist at all once the House of Spiders is completed. For Yi Sang, who's primary sin is Sloth, this is the ultimate relief from everything that has gone wrong in his life. He sees the ending that is promised to him, as is willing to do anything to achieve it.
Where Rien clings to the one in a million chance of a family with Ryoshu, and treats her accordingly as his daughter even as he manipulates her into becoming the weapon that she is destined to become, Yi Sang sees her as a tool. And, knowing that her entanglement is a necessary step to her completion...is willing to do anything to achieve it.

Trapped and tortured, Ryoshu slowly loses herself.

Now, say what you will of Rien, but I don't believe he's capable of this particular level of torture. Because he clings to this idea of a family with Ryoshu, he treats her as a daughter, because that is emblematic of his actual desire.
Yi Sang? Yi Sang doesn't need to feel guilty about his actions, because in the future those actions won't exist. He won't remember them, he won't be remembered, and Ryoshu will simply forget everything that happened in a flurry of slashes.
Unlike Rien, he sees the ending to the story, clearly and succintly. She will become completed, and she will erase him. There is no ambiguity, and there is no hopes for a different future.
All he needs to do is break his daughter, and then all of the pain will be over.

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u/Lunarsault — 3 months ago

To Slay a Tiger Thoughts

To slay a tiger ended up being a pretty great story. It didn’t particularly change my mind about Cheng, I still think he’s a great example of a hero who is mislead by strict conventions of honor that ultimately harm more than help, but instead of Cheng himself, I want to talk about the tiger.

A big theme of the story is what you’re willing to do to help your family and people. Cheng takes on bounties and odd jobs to help his ailing mother, the doctor and Cheng’s father instigated an attack on the town in order to feed the starving, and even the oppressed villagers were willing to fight a garrison of guards in order to save their dying fellow.
I think, ironically, the tiger is in exactly the same boat.

There’s a line from Cheng that he says to a villager, that if they had turned the weapons on the guards, and someone had ended up dying, that the penalty would have been death. Their already injured companion is someone who was viciously mauled by a tiger, the brother of one of the hunters. Why had they been attacked? Well, the villagers were starving due to a lack of food, and started hunting deep in the mountains. And now this mythical large tiger, three times larger than a normal animal, and engulfed in blue flames, has started killing those very same hunters. Why? Why is this legendary beast so adamant about hunting down the poachers to the last man?
Because the tiger is no ordinary tiger. The tiger is a Yao.

Think about the fact that there’s seemingly no Yao present in this story, despite being the major catalyst behind the main Spring Unending chapter. And Cheng’s greatest sin in that same chapter is not understand and recognizing the Yao as people, instead treating them as common criminals, footpads, and even animals. The process of events is likely predictable. The villagers are being starved, due to higher taxes by the nobility. Attacking the granaries, like Cheng’s father did, resulted in dozens of deaths and the execution of all involved parties. So instead, they go deep into the mountains, hunting animals. When Yao die, they don’t remain in their human form, in fact there’s nothing to distinguish them from normal plants or animals. The hunters mention that they’ve already hunted for abundant game, such as hares. And while they may have hunted a few normal animals, it’s also likely that Yao got caught up in the crossfire, completely unbeknownst to the hunters. But not to the fellow Yao left behind.

And now here comes the tiger. A Yao, part of a community who have taken to hiding deep in the mountains just to avoid persecution, is now watching his fellows killed by humans who have chased them even to this previously undisturbed land. And, unwilling to see it continue, begins to savage and even kill the hunters, not merely content with attacking the ones in their land either.

When the tiger makes a second showing, Cheng previously having thought it died, it’s no longer on the defensive. It is now charging the doctor’s clinic, seemingly with a target in mind. But it’s not the doctor, or even Cheng himself. What enrages the tiger is the HUNTER, who has visited the clinic for medicine for his still recovering brother. This is clearly a targeted killing. If it was merely a mindless animal, it would have stuck to hunting in its territory, but this is an individual on a mission. It effortlessly defeats the former bandit turned doctor, deflects Cheng’s metal shards, and attempts to finish the hunter off once and for all, only for Cheng to finally defeat it with clever use of his arcane skill.
The guards come, weapons in hand, finally here to slay the beast.
And again, recall what Cheng told the villagers, when they were considering attacking the noble guards.
”If someone dies, the penalty will be death.” And so it was. A vengeful Yao, slain for taking lives in its quest for revenge.

Now, some might be wondering why it’s never revealed what the tiger was, if it was a Yao. Why not reveal it here? I think earnestly, it’s because Cheng was not meant to know at this moment. Recall that one of his greatest character flaws is oppressing the Yao for his own growth. This moment is no different, he kills the ‘tiger’ and is renowned as a hero, much as he is renowned as a vigil of law and peace for apprehending the Yao in Huanzhou.
‘A tiger who is protecting his people, who can’t even live their short lives in peace in exile, whose very bodies are being consumed and used for sustenance and value by the long lived humans, who are once again taking everything from them.

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u/Lunarsault — 3 months ago

3.4 Story Thoughts

Having just finished Spring Unending (I know, I was pretty slow), I really liked how the story was presented.
On paper, this really did feel like the classic 'immortality is bad, natural life is good' kind of story that I think gets really overdone and tends to make a very shallow philosophical point about the 'natural order' and blah blah blah. Reverse really surprised me by having it be alot more nuanced than that.

Paper Heron is definitely shown as a proponent of why immortality and longevity is flawed, and what this adherence to the natural order does to the individual. Her veneer of optimism seems to come from a place of actual nihilism, she doesn't seem to want to change or get attached to anything because to her, the lives of a human and the lives of a short-lived yao are both equally meaningless to her actual immortality. I feared that Heron would be written as a wise Mary Sue that really had no flaws, but she had alot of problems.
When confronted with the Yao, explaining that her 'solution' to their longevity was something that took decades, the Yao understandably react poorly. They have lives measured in years or even months, and Heron is telling them there's no solution aside from just slowly climbing a hill they'll never reach the middle of, let alone the summit. She knows that rushing Longevity is something that invites disaster, yes, but she also has NO solutions for the Yao. I think what really reflects poorly on Heron (but is good writing as it's an excellent character flaw), is her tendency to avoid the fight. She is very much a drifting cloud, she doesn't enjoy struggle, serious ethical debates, or really pain of any kind. She'll constantly offer kind reassurances and reasons why a path is 'bad', but she also doesn't have any real solutions to those problems. In that way, she is very representative of the 'natural' order of the world. You simply let life happen to you, let fate do what it will, and accept it. It's not an uncommon philosophy, especially from a Daoist like Heron, but at the same time it's practically an insult to the short-lived Yao. Especially when this idea of living your natural life is being parroted by an ACTUAL immortal.

The flipside is Ren. She represents the opposite extreme to Heron, the pursuit not just of life, but immortality itself. She is obsessed with both her enduring legacy, and the extension of her life through the killing of the divine beast. Now, what's important here is not that Ren's goals as a whole are objectively evil and wrong, but rather the scale of them. Is it wrong to try to extend the lives of the short-lived Yao? Absolutely not.
Is it wrong to try to come up with a solution to Lanzhu, something that extends past the short term? Honestly, this one is a little more gray. Heron says that there will be catastrophe if Lanzhu is killed, but in the long term Lanzhu's peaks MIGHT have killed even more people. It's tricky because we know in the future that Lanzhu is eventually pacified by the lack of Qi in the natural world, but without that information, I don't think it's insane to think that it's worth trying to deal with the problem permanently. But, with these two things in mind, we might be able to understand why Ren did what she did, and make her more morally in the right. Ren however proves that what she's doing isn't for the school of Mei, it's for herself.
First of all, Ren was using the Yao, subjecting them to imprisonment and abuse by offering the Reversion Bells to the guards. She intentionally had them subjugated to lure them to her cause, then justifies it later by saying "they would have died anyway." True, and you can argue that by doing this and luring more Yao to her cause, she did save lives. But then again, consider who she was working with.
Recall that Ren was entrenched in the nobility of Huanzhou with men like Li Huifeng at her beck and call. Why would that be the case? She's a scholar and runs a school, yes, but why would these officiants work with her to ensure her school becomes even stronger from the oppressed Yao? The obvious answer is that she's offering them something they want, something like a chance at immortality.
Now, if she's selling this shared Qi to the nobility, as well as hoarding enough to become immortal herself, it begins to beg the question...how many people can this power ACTUALLY help? A thousand? A hundred? A dozen? Perhaps only Ren herself. When confronted by Heron, Ren says something that I think is rather telling.
"Keep the sword if you must. I will ascend, with or without it." I will ascend. Not us, not the school, but Ren herself. She's used the Yao as stepping stones up to this point, the sword is essentially just a battery storing Qi. With it, the ritual has a much higher chance of success, but without it? Well, she has all the Yao present at the ritual to use up anyway, which she does as they die by the dozens. In the end, I don't think Ren's goal was ever the extension of life for her school and her people, but immortality solely for herself, regardless of the people she had to sacrifice to get there.

And what of the people in the middle? I think Mayfly (my favorite character in the story), and Reed represent the people in the center of this philosophy very well. Recall what Paper Heron says at the end, that Qi gives to those who are lacking, and takes from those who are blessed. This is used as a karmic punishment for Ren, who ends up losing everything that made her powerful to her own schemes, but I think it applies to the Yao caught up in this mess as well. It is not a sin to want to live a longer life. Mayfly, at the moment of her death, does not penitently repent for everything she has done. She tells Heron that she HAD to try. That she wanted to fight, and struggle, and crawl for every inch, for just a chance at living longer. And I don't think the story paints that as a bad thing. Immortality is seen as something that brings with it consequences and perils, but the right to survive is something that is key to all living things, not just the short lived Yao or even the seekers of immortality like Ren. They weren't wrong for wanting to live longer, more fulfilled lives. For wanting time.
But Ren was willing to sacrifice the lives and well-beings of others to extend her own time, without ever risking herself. All her contingencies and plans were to ensure that she, without fail, would ascend to the top, regardless of what she had to step over.
But every Yao with her earnestly risked themselves, and their own lives, at a chance of living longer. And even though they don't succeed at lengthening their lives, Mayfly does leave behind a legacy that outlives her in Reed. Someone who also values every day she has, who lives with haste, but still fights for every moment.

The struggle for life is something inherent to all things, and it's not a sin to want more out of your circumstances. To trample on others and twist yourself like Ren is abhorrent. But to be like Heron, someone who is blessed with longevity and life, the freedom and time to be aimless and drifting, and still question the motive of those struggling for another month or year? I think that's wrong too. Something that Heron herself comes to realize, when she grows enamored with both Mayfly, and subsequently Reed's way of life. So I do really appreciate this story for bring a much more nuanced take to 'longevity' and the extension of life. It's not as simple as 'immortality' bad, but like Heron says, it's a matter of balance.

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u/Lunarsault — 3 months ago

Something I've found a bit interesting is how both Albina (mostly determined through Ring Faust), and Ryoshu both have evolved in response to Callisto's Corporism. As Ryoshu has explained in the most recent Intervallo, S.A.N.G.R.I.A is about the abbreviation and cutting away of the superfluous.

https://preview.redd.it/9mxm6gb9aszg1.png?width=851&format=png&auto=webp&s=d681b8feb8c03e961873c233d2d2dfc9bf4127aa

This isn't just to refine the act itself, however. For Ryoshu, there's value in both the thing that has been refined to it's most base elements, and also the 'absence' left behind by what has been cut away. It's a very interesting reaction to Callisto's Corporism, who in essence tries to pull personality and life out from a body, and replace it entirely with just the mechanical function of the form.

To Callisto, the person itself is meaningless, the beauty and aesthetics of the body is what remains in SPITE of the human they are made of, purity that remains marred by the ugliness of the person puppeting the body.

https://preview.redd.it/coov85f3bszg1.png?width=1137&format=png&auto=webp&s=6bbeaf9c299552dc2da3ad189481428c62594a6c

Even back then, Ryoshu's art style begins to form in response to Callisto's butchering.

We see this again when he's aggravated by Alyssa, and her emotional beratement during their fight.

https://preview.redd.it/i20op3vgbszg1.png?width=904&format=png&auto=webp&s=321fbfc18422329eb8df44e3ea14bd8301e5dc23

https://preview.redd.it/wzsykv9kbszg1.png?width=853&format=png&auto=webp&s=131aa07106eb097b8d951f0b24b4db4b0891a06f

To Callisto, loss elevates art, in the sense that with suffering and violence he can extract what he actually wants inside. But as we see with his gallery, life itself is uninteresting to him. His gallery is sterile, perfectly temperature controlled, devoid of any bacteria or contamination. It is fundamentally an area that cannot support life. It is clean, mechanically brilliant, and utterly dead.

Now, how does this relate to Albina? As Callisto's apprentice, you'd expect her to follow many of his same teachings, no?
Well, not exactly. There's a common trend going throughout this canto, that the 'apprentices' of the Nursefathers are actually much more suited for their respective organizations then the exiles who teach them. I believe Albina to be another very excellent representation of this.
First of all, her dedication to art.

Callisto found himself lacking, and was unwilling or unable to risk his body to create something. But Albina?

Albina immediately went where Callisto was not willing to go.

I think it's very telling that we hear of Albina's lobotomization of herself, with seemingly no fear, right before we hear from Callisto that he didn't have the courage or know-how to do it himself.

There's also an extremely distinct difference between their approach to their 'art subjects.'
Callisto finds himself disgusted by emotion, by hate, by meaningless personality that in essence detracts from the core values he wishes to extract from the corpus. But Albina is almost the exact opposite, albeit in still a macabre way.

Albina's seeks to know her subjects, her material, so as better to work with it.

From Albina's own words, her desire for friendship is a desire for understanding. She wishes to comprehend the individual she is about to feed to Fascia, so as better to use their parts. That is a vast detraction from Callisto, who seeks to separate the individual from the parts entirely. Recall what Ryoshu said about the extraction of the superfluous, and that there's meaning in both the refined artwork, and the void left behind.

Albina's artwork is also a stark contrast to Callisto. Fascia is a bleeding, pulsating greatsword, with an evident life and even beating heart. On the flipside, Callisto's Tibia, though still impressive, is essentially just a great blade of bone. It stretches and extends, a mechanical masterpiece, but distinctly lacks life. It doesn't have any of the vitality that Fascia seems to have. It can be argued that Fascia even has a consciousness, vibrating with hunger for meat, a companion that Albina has full conversations with (albeit onesided). For someone who is descended from the school of corporism, Albina has made something shockingly alive.

And finally, the last piece of evidence isn't from Albina herself, but rather the Ring Apprentice Faust.

https://preview.redd.it/xoh6zgtueszg1.png?width=1285&format=png&auto=webp&s=bfa3f0afecf47fd14445f2c71c7e1fc8e72e4d7c

https://preview.redd.it/z1u4zncxeszg1.png?width=1305&format=png&auto=webp&s=a2c986dd6ec9fcf1a26059917de9375eec659165

This is what truly separates Albina from Callisto, the fact that Albina's final purpose isn't just to 'finish' Fascia, it's to almost eradicate the self. She wishes to give all of what composed of her to Fascia, both to redefine what it means to be herself, as her original body would entirely be within the sword, and to redefine what it means to be Fascia.

Would the sword be Albina, now composed in an entirely different state than what was initially her? Would it still be called Fascia? Would Albina herself cease to exist?
Would it now be the human, due to comprising all of the human that once called itself Albina? Or would it be something else?
Does the void of what used to be Albina define Fascia, or does the object that was once Fascia define what is left of Albina?
Much like Ryoshu, Albina has seemingly come to a different conclusion about corporism. It's not merely the act of extracting what is 'valuable' inside of the corpus, instead, it's about how the loss of EVERYTHING now defines the artwork that remains. Both the former, and the latter define each other, intrinsically forming something beyond both. The void that remains defines the artwork that is created from the ruins. Exactly like S.A.N.G.R.I.A.

Which I think makes it extra ironic, that Albina mentions in a voiceline...
"I'll complete it this time. A masterpiece worthy of the Maestro's approval...!"
That even as she moves past him, stepping into territory that Callisto is too afraid to venture himself, he still doesn't approve of her.
Is it because he's afraid of his apprentice eclipsing him, as he is stuck in his rut? Or is it because he is guilty of the same thing he accuses all of his critics of, of being unable to understand artwork that has transcended his own narrow views? Who knows.
But I think it's telling that two of his apprentices, both having seen his own artwork, seem to have come to similar conclusions on where to advance it.

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u/Lunarsault — 4 months ago

I've seen lots of critiques of Sora's character, that she's a very shallow persona, and that even to the end we don't learn much about her.

I do think that's somewhat valid, but I think the 'why' of it is very important. Sora is built as a very shallow plot device, and that's fully intentional, as a way to mock Rien for all of the failures in his life.

Firstly, Sora's ego. Procuration, as many people have picked up, is meant as a mimicry of Yan's distorted form.

https://preview.redd.it/yhjv7z2upfzg1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=21cfd917846e4be67a7efb18291fb188c6906669

https://preview.redd.it/cyiimwaxpfzg1.png?width=994&format=png&auto=webp&s=62462182f2a5c8909f22f72a3a22fef210fcc6a9

The white and black outfits, the chains connecting Sora to these eldritch looking claws, the collar around her neck representing the prescript's everlasting hold.
She's not only a mimicry of Yan, but also a bastardization of him in a very mocking way. Yan distorted due to his feeling of powerlessness, his realization that his defiance meant absolutely nothing to the omniscience of the prescripts. No matter what he did, he would become this empty tool, and in doing so he becomes a distorted embodiment of them.
Sora's the opposite. Sora loves the prescripts, wholeheartedly believes in them. In her mind, it's not just that she follows the prescripts and believes in them, she believes that her OWN will is in fact synonymous with the prescripts, that their desires are one and the same. It's this belief that her own emotions drive the commands she's been given that lets her effloresce ego.

This dichotomy is meant to mock Rien. We see a few examples of his 'rebellion', him destroying the lab before Ryoshu can find Araya, him defying the prescripts commands in his battle with Ryoshu, and him coming back to see his wife and daughter dying at the hands of the Ring. The point of Sora, and of Yan, is to show Rien that it's utterly pointless. If he follows the prescripts wholeheartedly, he'll become Sora, a devoted puppet that has no qualms about the God she serves. And if he rebels, wars against the prescripts, and turns his back on fate? He'll become Yan, advancing the prescripts goals with every petty act of rebellion he does. There's no winning. She's a constant reminder that no matter what he does, he's trapped. He can't rebel, but he also can't bring himself to wholeheartedly believe, which is why he can't effloresce ego in the same way. Instead he's awkwardly caught in the middle, someone who seemingly has no doubts following the rules he's trapped by, but ultimately harbors deep doubts that dig into him like the Spiral he so often talks about.

Secondly, she's the THIRD daughter in a line of tragedies that has haunted Rien's life. His first daughter, the archetypical normal child that he loved with all his heart, but was ultimately killed due to his inaction.
His second, Ryoshu, he tried to warn. He warned her about Araya, about getting attached, about the dangers of loving and affection and how everything given to you would only be taken away, only for those warnings to end up turning her against him. He's cut and burned by her, and is once again left with nothing.
And then that leaves Sora. I've seen a few people question why she's in a skirt, something that almost approaches a school uniform.

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We actually see school come up often in Canto 9, and then furthermore in the intervallo. School ultimately represents normalcy. The ability to lead a normal, every day familial life. Araya's randoseru, Ryoshu's desire to be in school, Araya's teacher that ends up causing Ryoshu to quit smoking, all of these represent an idyllic family life. Even the house of spiders itself is a twisted mockery of a school, five individuals all teaching Ryoshu to be the weapon she's meant to be.
Sora's wearing of this school uniform is very much another jab from Hermes, a way of giving Rien, in a very cruel way, what he's lost. Ryoshu never got to be an earnest student, nor did his own daughter. So instead, the Index gives him this cruel fascimile of a 'normal' daughter, dressing Sora up, even as she wears the garbs of the index and chains that show exactly what she actually is. "Here is your daughter, be grateful, we've finally given you what you wanted."

And then finally, Sora's own name. If you recall, Rien told Ryoshu a story about a spider that wanted to leave the web.

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Rien's lesson is to never crave the sky, to never wish for anything outside of his own web, and to abandon all hope of escaping. And of course, the meaning of Sora's name in Japanese?
Sky.
Instead of seeking escape, the Index sends him the namesake of the thing he is never meant to have. He's shown a sky that has found happiness in the whole-hearted acceptance of the Index, something that he will never, ever be able to achieve. Something that has achieved ego in the whole-hearted belief of its chains, something that has taken the form of the daughters he never truly got to have. Sora's ultimate purpose, and the reason for her 'shallowness', is because she was never meant to be a character on her own. She's not meant to be a character, she's meant to be a torture device for Rien specifically. Something meant to always remind him of the consequences of stepping out of line, of what he's lost, and of what he will never have.

And the worst part about all of it, is that Sora herself is likely completely oblivious to this. She loves Rien, wholeheartedly. Truly desires to be his daughter, and believes that that dream, like the rest of her will, fully aligns with the Prescripts. We all know this isn't the case however, and she's meant to be nothing but a sacrifice. Even Rien himself knows that her dream will never come true.

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Rien here knows that he's sending Sora off to die. And that like the rest of her, his torturous final daughter will be gone, forever. And yet, I don't think Rien was lying here. Much like his first daughter, and his second, despite knowing how this relationship would end, Rien couldn't help himself.
Many lessons that Rien espouses to Ryoshu are lessons that he himself cannot follow. Don't get attached. Don't fall in love. These gifts exist only to torture you.
But he truly can't stop himself from caring. And I think in this moment, the realization that Sora will never have the thing she has devoted the entirety of herself to, gives him real regret.
But like everything else in his life, Rien merely chokes it down, and moves on.
Which makes his next exchange with Ren so interesting.

\"It's too late\" is likely something that Rien has often told himself. Time and time again.

This is a strangely condescending act for Rien. For the entirety of us knowing him, he's polite and affable, and yet in this moment he tells Ren that his actions are 'pointless.'
Because he's not really angry at Ren, or even really talking to him. Rien is talking to himself, giving himself the same excuses he has ALWAYS given.
"It's pointless. It's too late. I can't do anything."
Ren having the courage to go fight and die for his master, is the exact opposite of Rien who has never had that same courage to fight and die for his family. Not when he lost his first daughter, nor his second, nor his third.

And so ironically, Ren shares that same existence as Sora, someone who's meant to highlight all the failures of Rien. Two apprentices who existed fundamentally as foils to the man who was never able to pick a side, not of rebellion, nor of meek obedience.

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u/Lunarsault — 4 months ago