u/MaltaPrivacy

There's a nootropic subreddit, the one missing the "r" in the name where the mod has a company that sells researchy sounding drugs with alphanumeric soup for names. To protect the innocent, let's call this company "Everyscam".

Ever wonder how Everyscam gets away with selling big-pharma's prized research drugs without being sued into oblivion to protect their intellectual property?

Most of those drugs are abandoned. Basically failed pharmaceuticals being sold as nootropics. The rights to some of them have been sold to different companies, who try to find a use for them. There's one, let's call it JUNK-356 that was first tried as a treatment for MDD. When that didn't work it got trialed as an adjunct for MDD. Then it got trialed for various deficits like autism. The original creator dumped it.

So what's the chances that JUNK-356 will make you smarter? Probably zero. But the placebo effect is strong. Nobody is immune to it. If you think it is making you smarter, you might actually study harder and do better on tests, just because you think you can. So I guess that's worth something.

At least most of these failed drugs are probably safe. The creators conduct extensive safety trials before the actual testing begins.

The side effect is bone loss and impaired formation. This was studied in rats and in vitro cells (https://sci-hub.sidesgame.com/10.1016/j.taap.2018.04.006, https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36142172/).

To make you understand how concerning this is, look at the data on rats:

Trabecular vBMD (femur/tibia)	~30% reduction
Trabecular bone volume (BV/TV)	~45-55% reduction
Trabecular number	~55% reduction
Cortical vBMD (femur shaft)	~18% reduction
Cortical thickness	~20% reduction
Trabecular bone strength (compression)	~30% lower max load, ~45% lower stiffness
Cortical bone strength (3-point bending)	~30% lower max load, ~30% lower stiffness

It's actualy very concerning because if the effect it has on rats would translate 1:1, it would have major implications. This probably doesn't translate 1:1 to humans, but it's still very concerning since there are still no humans studies on this.

If i'm not wrong, we can compare these rats with young adult humans taking 100mg modafinil 5x a week for some years as their bones are still developing (human bones finish devloping at around 30).

There is also a similar effect with amphetamines that has actually been proven in humans too, but Modafinil is working through an additional mechanism, which might mean the effect is actually even worse.

Two pathways have been found responsible for mafinil's effect on bones: one pathway triggers bone resorption through adenosine receptors and the other (which is the same one seen in amphetamines) inhibits bone formation through sustained heightened levels of norinepherine, which has been shown to inhibit bone formation.

This is particularly concerning because it means modafinil attacks bones from two sides, and there is a potential for it being even worse than what is already confirmed in amphetamines.

In fact, based on this, I think modafinil is pretty high risk, and here's why:

- longer half life than amphetamines

- two pathways being triggered: one that inihibits formation and another that triggers resorption

- if we translate the dosage to humans, the rats were taking 100mg of modafinil, not 200mg, which is what most people take

- not many younger people using modafinil, so less anecdotal data compared to amphetamines

Personally, i've used Modafinil for quite some years, even though not every day, and I've felt for a long time that my bones don't feel that strong, which would also be weird since my diet is dialed in, I take D3 and K2 and I work out.

One example of this is that whenever I do barebell Scott curls in the gym for multiple weeks in a row, I start experiencing some bone pain in my forearms.

It's not that concerning for me (that exercise is quite brutal on bones), I still think my bones are decently strong, but it realy makes me wonder what the situation would look like if I were to continue using it, which is why I'm stopping using it.

This post is for warning you guys against something I'm seeing no one talk about and also to know about your experience. Do you use modafinil and have experienced some bone pain or similar indicators of weakening bones?

After a few days of regular caffeine use, my mood becomes a wreck, I have no energy, I barely wake up. I only drink a cup or two of coffee a day for strength performance, as it makes my cognition worse and gives me brain fog.

Is it common?

Hello everyone. Thank from the bottom of my heart for your thoughts and advice. Thank you for reading all this and answering the questions at the bottom.

Yesterday I was deeply depressed and anxious, as I pretty much have been my entire life.

So for the first time ever in my life; I took .010 grams (that’s only a 10 milligram microdose) of ground up Golden Teacher (I know many are laughing right now).

Starting around 6 hours after taking this incredibly small dose I felt like my depression and anxiety got noticeably worse.

No trippy images, or any sort of trippy feeling. The only way I can describe it is my depression before the dose felt 1 dimensional and flat as always.

But at around the 6 hour mark, I felt like I became heavily aware of my depression, I felt completely enveloped by my depression, I became deeply reflective, it was incredibly sad to me how much life it has robbed me of; and then a greater level of anxiety took over as well.

At this point, this all felt very uncomfortable and I wish I hadn’t taken the microdose as my depression and anxiety felt noticeably worse at this time. It felt like, if I go any further and deeper into this, it’s gonna start to get unbearably scary, and I’ll mentally lose control.

I then went to bed, and slept actually better than usual. After sleeping about 4 hours, I woke up still feeling very down and frighteningly the same, but quickly fell back asleep and slept another solid 5 hours.

When I woke up, I felt the enveloping fog of depression had lifted significantly, and I felt back in a slightly better way, not healed but slightly better. So roughly 16 hours after the dose, I don’t feel completely relieved of my depression, but I do feel noticeably lighter, and my anxiety has lessened tremendously.

Currently my level of depression feels much more manageable than before taking the microdose.

I was actually faced with a stressful situation upon awakening, a situation that normally would cause me quite a bit of anxiety, but I was amazed, as was the other person, as to how easily I handled it and sailed through it with no anxious residuals, nor ruminating thoughts, nor replaying the event in my head.

Questions / thoughts please ->

. Did I imagine all this? Is .010 grams too low to experience what I described?

. Should I try it again? I ask this because at one point last night I felt like if I had gone any deeper into this sort of enveloping depression that it could’ve gotten quite scary. And of course, my anxiety went crazy in the moment, and had me thinking that any higher of a microdose may trigger some sort of mental health issue, that I’m not aware of such as BP etc.

. Do you think this very small microdose was some sort of warning sign to me, from my brain basically saying “hey buddy don’t go any further with this; it’s not going to go well with even slightly higher microdoses“? (I once tried smoking marijuana in my 20s and felt extremely paranoid).

. Should I try again when I’m not so depressed?

. Any thoughts, advice, etc…?

Thank from the bottom of my heart for your thoughts.

Some background about me:
. 56 yr old male, 143 pounds, amazing shape. Exercise 6 days a week eat healthy
. Super sensitive to meds. I don’t drink alcohol, but on the occasion of maybe having one drink a year, that one drink makes me feel drunk.
. Been depressed / anxious entire life
. Can’t do SSRI - was on 10mg Lexapro 2005-2014. Didn’t help; horrible side effects.
. Not on any SSRI or meds (just dabbling with things intermittently, at very low doses, trying to overcome this depression). Been trying meds such as: low dose nasal ketamine spray, Naltrexone, various supplements). I was not on any of those when I tried the low-dose psilocybin. All of those listed had been out of my system for quite some time.

I’m not recommending this. I’m actually asking if I should be concerned.

Yesterday I took 200mg modafinil, some overpriced “mitochondrial support” supplement I bought during a 2am health-optimisation spiral, creatine, mad honey, black coffee, and then for reasons I cannot defend spiritually or scientifically, I decided to “reset my dopamine” manually.

Immediately after, I got the most violent post-nut clarity of my life.

Not normal clarity. Not “I should clean my room” clarity. I mean like the clouds opened and a tiny management consultant crawled out of my skull with a Gantt chart.

Resting heart rate was around 150, which in hindsight is probably not ideal. But mentally? Insane. I sat down and entered some disgusting tunnel state where I could see the structure of my entire week. Emails became obvious. Code became obvious. My calendar stopped looking like time and started looking like an enemy supply line.

I did what felt like 8 hours of work in 1 hour. No music. No snacks. No checking my phone. Just pure weaponised shame and cardiovascular panic.

The weirdest part was the feeling lasted roughly 5 hours. It wasn’t even euphoria. It was more like being haunted by a very productive ghost. I didn’t feel happy. I felt assigned.

Then it wore off and I became a normal useless mammal again.

Has anyone else experienced this? Is there an actual mechanism here or did I just combine stimulants, guilt, hormones, and fear into a temporary office demon?

Again, not saying this is healthy. It probably isn’t. But this is the most productive I have ever felt on any combination of nootropics ever.

Go

Wondering what supplements or advice people have for rebuilding there brain after Addie use, even just for taking a break

I haven’t been on SSRI for two three years now. I was suffering from delayed ejaculation and desensitization which was enough for me to stop taking it. The first time I tried I had horrible flu like symptoms so I went back on. The second time I came off I took a 3g of psilocybin mushroom without any issues. Had a good trip. No withdrawals. Just thought I’d put this out there.

Hello, I have an issue regarding my overactive symphatetic nervous system. Sometimes, mostly before sleep, I have trouble winding down.
Mostly I use melatonin (2mgs), which somewhat helps, but not with anxiety.
I’m looking for a compound which has one, but not limited to, following properties:
GABA-B agonism, GABA positive allosteric modulation, GAT inhibition, gaba transaminase inhibition or inhibitinon the release of cortisol and/or noradrenaline.
In the past I have used magnesium glycinate, which made things worse as I was really overheating, l theanine which works really mildly, and ashwaganda however its also mild for me.
I’m interested in: magnolia bark, baicalin and baicalein or valerian root.
Do you have any experience with these? And could you suggest some more, which has helped you with this issue?
Thank you

Doesn't 4-FA seem like a better ADHD drug overall simply because aside from doing what d-amphetamine does it can also reduce anxiety as an empathogen. Anxiety is a big concern with ADHD meds and extra serotonin from 4-fa can blunt it. 4-fa could in theory help autistics with ADHD too by promoting trust, empathy and reducing fear of social interactions. 4-fa doesn't seem to deplete monoamines like mdma and cathinones so if dosed at equipotent doses to therapeutic stimulants, neurotoxicity shouldn't be a big concern.

I don't advocate for anyone to take 4-fa or any other drug they aren't prescribed. This is a purely theoretical discussion to gain insight and learn from new perspectives, as is common in this sub.

I'm using NAC with Adderall and it seems i just don't get much euphoria and anxiety/ocd like behaviors from addy but the functional benefits stay. Is that how it's supposed to be or does Nac reduce therapeutic effects too?

Both work by increasing available serotonin in the brain. Then why don't SSRI/SNRIs produce a similar effect to MDMA? MDMA is a little dopaminergic too but massive serotonin release is what's credited for most of its effects.

Is this due to the brain regions where these drugs leads to increased extracellular serotonin?

Not here to trash the herb. Works for a lot of people. Just sharing because I couldn't find honest talk until I dug... Ashwagandha could harm you.

45, healthy, train mma, no alcohol. 600mg daily for 8 months on the usual recommendations. First weeks felt calmer. Then things drifted.

Flat mood. Music didn't hit. Training mechanical. Libido low. Restless sleep even though I was "calmer." Blamed work, age, travel.

A friend told me her doctor made her stop it two weeks before surgery. That snapped me out of it. Why does a gentle herb need a washout before anesthesia?? So I read.

What I found:

NIH LiverTox lists it as a probable cause of liver injury. 23 hospital cases.

Denmark banned it in April 2023. Sweden, Finland, France, Germany, UK all reviewing.

It hits GABA and serotonin pathways. Same families as benzos and SSRIs, weaker but real. People report anhedonia and libido crash lasting months after stopping.

It pushes thyroid up and stimulates the wrong arm of the immune system for autoimmune patients (if you have issues with Thyroid it can be more dangerous)

Stopped. Mood coming back. Libido returning. Slower than the 20 year olds posting about this, but moving.

Not telling anyone not to take it (or am I?).Telling you it is not a gentle herb. It is a neuroendocrine modulator with receptor effects and a real regulatory paper trail. At 45 you do not have the recovery runway you had at 20. If something feels off on it, trust that signal.

After experimenting with various nootropics over the past couple years, I’ve noticed something interesting. The compounds that scare me the most aren’t necessarily the euphoric ones. It’s the ones that quietly make life feel… manageable.

Modafinil was the first thing that made me realize how much energy my brain normally wastes fighting basic task initiation, cognitive fatigue, context switching etc. Not in a “limitless pill” way. Honestly the opposite. It just reduced friction.

And weirdly, that can become psychologically dangerous in its own way because once your brain experiences long periods of calm, sustained functionality, your old baseline suddenly feels broken by comparison.

That realization alone sent me pretty deep into the nootropics, all trying to answer the same question: what level of cognition is actually “normal” for people now?

Feels like modern productivity culture shifted from “how do I work harder?” to “how do I maintain functional neurochemistry consistently?”

Thoughts?

Hi everyone,

On Friday morning, I decided to try mushrooms that I grew myself for the very first time.

To give you some context: I am 39, single, and I’ve been on 15mg Escitalopram (Lexapro) for quite a while to manage anxiety. The SSRI works pretty well, but my ultimate goal is to eventually taper off, rewire my brain, and conquer this underlying anxiety once and for all. That’s why I got interested in psychedelic therapy.

Another important detail: the evening before (Thursday), I had my very first hypnotherapy session focused on "emotional release/cleansing."

Due to a heating failure during my grow, I barely harvested anything. People on specialized Facebook groups told me that I "wouldn't even feel a buzz with that amount," that it was essentially a microdose, and that on top of that, my 15mg of Lexapro would likely block the effects anyway.

I figured that worst-case scenario, it would act as a beneficial microdose for my BDNF. So, I made a Lemon Tek (lemon + hot water + a tea bag) and drank it on Friday at 11 AM. (They were dried mushrooms, I will attach a picture of the dose).

I definitely felt the come-up. I was outside on my patio, and it was nice and pleasant. Then, as it got really hot outside, I went indoors and laid on my couch after having a meal.

I laid down, closed my eyes, and from there, the journey became deeply introspective. I felt truly, profoundly relaxed, experiencing total inner peace.

All my social hierarchies collapsed: I felt that nothing mattered because I knew how to just be "here and now." Money, material possessions, love, or sex had no importance... Even the idea of being in a relationship and having kids (which I don't have yet, but deeply desire at 39, and which is a major source of stress for me) felt completely non-urgent and non-vital. In short, it was a feeling of absolute wholeness.

But... at some point, the comedown started. And when I reconnected with reality... the crash hit.

I became profoundly sad, depressed, with a strong urge to cry. I was overwhelmed by intense anxiety and fear. :(

Friday evening was rough. The next day (Day+1) wasn't easy either, and waking up this morning (Day+2) was still very hard. This experience seems to have stirred everything up in my brain, and the return to reality is agonizingly difficult.

The worst part is that I am not fundamentally depressed. I felt fine before taking the dose; my only intention was to treat my anxiety (and need for control) to prepare myself for a future SSRI taper.

Long story short, since Friday evening, I am terrified by the thought of staying single forever, never finding anyone, and remaining anxious my whole life. I am scared of the future and of myself. It’s very hard to endure right now.

I don't know what to make of this "Post-Trip Blues" or cognitive dissonance.

Does this happen often?

Since the crash, I’ve been taking 2x 500mg of L-Theanine daily to try and manage as best as I can until things improve.

Do you have any advice for integrating this emotional crash?

Thank you in advance for your help.

People talk about doing 100mg of vyvanse, 60mg adderall, a ton of dex but for me, I feel uncomfortably numb, irritated and just mad at my existence at anything over 20mg Vyvanse or 5mg Dex.

However, at 20mg or 5mg life does feel much better, with Vyvanse rush lasts same as Dex but then I get a few more hours of just feeling okay-good but not super good. And I don't seem to build a tolerance to any dose, like say when I was using higher doses I d feel the same etc. But I take them orally

Why is that? I thought more dopamine = better mood. Why doesn't it do that to me and I just get hit with all the negatives and none of the positives, It's been that way since the first time I took an amphetamine. Technically I was not abusing it as I was titrating up according to the prescription but the mechanism is the same.

I know this isn't a drug abuse sub hey there are some great minds on this sub that could help explain it.