u/MischievousCreations

Took a bit of a break... but a quick possible s3 scenario that could be worth discussing

I was thinking about how Val was looking for a co-star for Angel s2 and how the plot may play out for s3.

One of the questions I always had was why wasn't Val performing as an actor himself anymore? Did Vox convince him not to by telling him he was "above" it? Did he stop doing it on his own etc?

I think it would be a good way to explore both the porn industry in hell (hell's hollywood) as well as any complications in both Val himself and his relationship with Angel. For example, Val returning to acting could give a chance to reveal his eating disorder (which people suspect he has/has been hinted at)

Also, I think it would a great trainwreck to watch of him trying to both be performing again and acting CEO. I think it would a mess for everyone involved and could be entertaining to watch

Love is blind~

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This is from Twitter: https://x.com/MarleneProart/status/2066435112900644877

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Val going blind also plays into some other themes like dependence since he makes his victims dependent on him like a drug.

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He would be completely dependent on the other Vees if he went blind.

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... Anyways, I'm the sort of villain fan that likes downfalls but dislikes revenge fantasy or death penalty so honestly, I think this is a "fun" scenario to consider.

Also please check the subreddit before commenting, this is the val cult

I mustered up an inch of willpower to draw (even though I have other stuff I am art blocked on)

Originally I had Val frowning in this comic but I thought it would be funnier if he was smiling lol.

I know a lot of people are thinking how depressed Vox is (and I do think a lot of things about him will be explored S3 including some darker moments) but honestly my first reaction to seeing the merch was going "this fucker" and "I hate him" (affectionately) when I saw that smile on Vox lol.

The comic is probably somewhat ooc but it's for fun.

They picked the evil option of including Angel with the Vees phew.

(Good thing I like evil)

On the other hand, Vox beat the head only allegations so there's that lol.

1) Who does the photograph on the desk belong to?

I think most people assume it's Valentino photo (I also do believe the photo is Val's) because it is his room but I've been curious about the upgrade of the desk from s1 to s2.

It's possible that the desk is Vox's desk in Val's room considering how he was going through the drawers there and the upgrade makes it clearly Vox's style in Val's room

However, it's also possible to still be Val's since again, it is his room and the s1 screens did have his logo on them.

2) Did Vox save Valentino from falling in the finale?

We see the cables string Val up and Vox also has a small video feed of Val in the bottom left when he sees his approval ratings fall.

I could also see it as just a coincidence though

I sometimes see people complaining that Val and Velvette didn't realize Alastor was trying to break the Vees apart season 2 or that they didn't help Vox enough during the events of s2 and how it undercuts their found family dynamic/they don't care but I disagree.

I don't think they know:

In my opinion, it's unlikely Val or Vel knew the full extent of Vox's rejection with Alastor. They know he has a weird obsession with wanting to kill him but probably not the full extent of how hurt he was, how he had a crush etc. So they are supportive of his whole rivalry thing, not realizing how obsessive Vox actually is about it/ the issues/insecurities that it stems from

Why would Vox tell them those details when he's so obsessed with his image and not being a failure? Why would he try to be vulnerable after the rejection, even if he cares for the other Vees, when he's still clinging to the idea that there are no friends in hell and relying on others for power makes you weak? 

You could argue that Vees should have created a situation where he could be vulnerable but like... they are super villains and likely have their own issues (I highly doubt val doesn't have fucked up views on both sex, love, family). In comparison, Charlie is trying her hardest to get Angel to open up and it's been (understandably) slow ass progress too.

I am not expecting nearly that much from Val or Vel when they probably don't know the full details and Vox himself probably doesn't even understand the full extent of his own insecurities. Especially when their relationships are not completely official and teeter between business partners and family.

It's not that vees don't care, it's that despite living and being close to each other, it's unlikely they have truly opened up to the others because they are all self-centered, prideful, villains and most importantly, they didn't need to.

They have all been at the top of their power for a while. It's only now that the status quo is changing and they are forced to self reflect and be placed in vulnerable situations. It's only now that things are unstable that their relationships bonds are actively proving to go beyond just business.

Would it be nice if Val and Vel held an intervention? Well they did in the end but they didn't think Vox would lose it either, they thought it was a phase and the lines at the end "you know me, I got a little carried away" imply this is a regular thing with Vox letting his ego get to him. The scene with Alastor was more about them being displeased with Vox's attitude towards them than them siding with Alastor. It doesn't feel like they have the context so it's just banter to them while Vox is acting more like a jerk than usual during another one of his ego trips.

Imo it's similar to how Vox deals with Val's tantrums, usually it's just cancelling a few meetings every few days to deal with it, you don't expect one day for the tantrum to end up with an attempt at mass suicide when the past ones were just annoying at worst.

Also... There's also the question of whether or not it would have worked because of how obsessed Vox was. Would he have listened to Vel/val? Or would Alastor just need to say "Oh I guess you can't keep your lackeys in line, look how they are questioning your judgement" and Vox would have ignored the vees? That if Val and Vel asked Vox what was wrong he would have told them his past? We also have to consider that we don't know Val/vel's stories either, they may also have their own issues that would prevent them from asking. Val in particular goes "He's just a man" which is... not a great indicator.

Not perfect found family

I think some people are also under the idea that because Viv says they are found family that they are starting the series as a perfect found family that will being perfectly supportive of each other while being evil.

And that when they are toxic or don't communicate, the story is failing to keep the found family dynamic or they don't actually care for each other.

When that doesn't seem to be the case?

Like yes, they do imo genuinely care about each other but Vees are more like a found family that haven't realized it yet or are in active denial about it.

They still have their own baggage to deal with  (Angel/Alastor obsessions etc) and are under development in their relationships/character but can hopefully learn to value and support each other better.

They will not be perfect but that doesn't mean they aren't found family.

Also in the end of the day they are evil. They probably aren't going to portray healthy relationships, instead they'll probably just be toxic in a way that is close enough to a healthy relationship because it is what works for them

I suspect similar stuff to happen s3 where, technically, it would be nice if Velvette and Vox worried about Val before his downfall moment and maybe could have prevented it, but like as long as they are around to save him when it matters at the end, I'll be fine.

Villains always learn the hard usually anyways

Also completely unrelated: drawing is hard and taking too long

The main question being what do you want to see for Val's endgame or overall arc?

Do you see him having an arc? Or just going through a downfall/being killed off?

My personal opinion has always been I want to see him go through a downfall losing Angel, losing power, money, reputation as well as going though his own mental crisis but I also want to see him stay alive and with the Vees and maybe figure out both his own mental state (Considering he likely has an eating disorder and other issues from representing the toxic side of the entertainment industry) along with his relationship with vox

The main arguments against the idea of this that Val doesn't deserve a happy ending with what he did to Angel and that him having a relationship with Vox would be insulting to victims.

However, I have never really agreed with that stuff because what no matter what happens people will say it is somehow insulting to victims. Like I have already heard it all, Valentino being hot is insulting to victims, or being funny is bad representation etc. Valentino can't be the perfect depiction of every toxic abuser, he already isn't. He's not an ugly guy, he's not an alpha male dudebro.

He's just his own character and his storyline probably isn't going to perfectly represent everyone's fantasy of watching an awful person die/tortured forever.

Because show is about redemption rather than punishment and revenge. Will Val get punished? Yeah, but I would want to see the punishment end in hope for a better future rather just be about eternal suffering all alone.

Angel's happiness is not dependent on Val being miserable forever or losing his relationships with the vees forever or never being loved by Vox or something.

Angel's happiness is his own redemption story with his friends and family. This doesn't mean I think Val will have a "happy ending", it just means that Val having one good thing left (his relationship with the vees) isn't somehow a blight on Angel's own story.

Yes, it would be fucked up for Val and Vox actually ended up in somewhat functional relationship because that's obviously not fair and he doesn't deserve it but redemption is inherently unfair.

Redemption doesn't care about victims.

Sir pentious never apologizes or makes amends to the people he watched die or their loved ones to be redeemed. Redemption isn't about forgiveness, it's about becoming better no matter what the past was. Personally, I don't think Val will go to heaven but I do think he can get at least a little better in hell. I believe any change is valuable.

I also don't see why splitting the vees permanently up is necessary either. Like yeah they enable each other to be evil but them caring about each other is also the only redeeming feature they all have and I don't think they'll get new redeeming features anytime soon.

It makes more sense for a show that values love and friendship to punish them by taking away the things wanted and gained from being evil (power money etc), than to punish them by taking the one redeeming feature and only relationships that they actually did correctly.

This is exactly how Vox was handled, he lost his approval rating but his bond with the other two vees is what ends up saving him. If Val does the right things to maintain an okay love relationship with vox, the idea of redemption is letting that happen even if he doesn't deserve it.

I want to see all the Vees change a bit to be better after their downfalls even if they all stay evil. I want to see this for all the villains at this point, including lute and alastor. For them to go through downfalls but come out changed for the better... even if it's still not that great.

Sidenote but Valentino fans redemption views are different:

I have noticed that my kind of mentality/view around redemption (redemption not caring about victims, vees having each other as their main redeeming feature, even change that stays in hell is okay etc) isn't uncommon around Val fans but is kind of uncommon for the general hazbin audience. Relevant twitter thread I recommend (https://x.com/AustaAfterAll/status/2057069435458822446)

Which both makes sense but is also ironic since we like the character that people believe cannot, should not, will not change or be redeemed. So the people who like the "worst" character believe in the idea of any redemption (even if it's not to heaven) for most of the evil characters while people who like nicer characters may not actually believe in redemption as much and actually hope that Charlie learns to lean into punitive justice.

The real question is, are we the crazy ones for having these views on redemption?

https://x.com/parade\_prize/status/2055091200043180315

These are probably limited to Japan merch that you will be able to find in arcades.

Look at him though. There are no thoughts in those evil eyes.

(Also featured, a certain flat faced prince)

I've noticed I check the bottom row first when I look at tier lists and find it kinda funny.

It reminds me of when I liked playing a really non meta character in a video game. Every tier list was a "he's F tier isn't he?"

What other evil scenes/ moments do you expect from Val next season? I may draw the scenarios out for a part 2 if they are interesting

Explanation Quick Notes:

I am not great with dialogue so some of these are a bit awkward to read. You should have seen the first draft of some of these, I just threw random Spanish hoping it would sound right (it didn't)

A) I feel like Val telling Angel stuff like he doesn't need redemption, redemption is impossible for addicts like him, and all he needs is only Val himself, is something Val would do. Isolation and destroying self worth etc.

B) "I'll kill his whole fucking family". Very gangster. Very evil. Also because I feel like he will chase Angel to the hotel and get his ass kicked when Angel finds the courage to leave Val for good

C) I think a big theme around Val is making things feel good until they are not... Similar to drugs. People go to him to forget their shitty lives but all he does is make things worse.

D) My original idea for this was like a moment where Angel sees Val go truly violent and realizing "if I stay, I will die eventually" like everyday being a hardcore drug addict or staying in an abusive relationship is like a gamble on your own life. I couldn't figure the comic paneling out so we got trigger happy Val instead

E) I really like the idea of Val blaming Angel + seeing himself as the victim (though couldn't figure out how to get this part into the comic). The whole "sorry loses meaning after a while" thing was already kind of an important topic from how it's been handled with Angel and Charlie so far

F) I personally headcanon that Val genuinely thinks attention is always great, even if the attention is actually negative. (Also please ignore how I just gave up on drawing that scenario out)

Archive site: https://kemono.cr/patreon/user/111271?o=400

Vivziepop's Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/VivienneMedrano/home

Joel (Valentino's VA) also sang an altered lyric of Judas by lady gaga

https://x.com/nesspenguin89/status/2047919703331614969

https://x.com/valerinaadio/status/2047974551922102505