u/Neo_Bruhamut

I think it goes by character release but im not sure.

Yukikaze: Mom! Why are you doing this!?

Shiranui: It is for two reasons.

1, It has come to my attention that you have been using classrooms for target practice, MANY times! And in doing so, caused extensive water damage and ruined countless sporting equipment (why do we have so many basketballs...).

2, As i told you before, you need training. Your offensive skills are competent enough but your endurance and physical conditioning are lacking.

Natsu and i are going to address both your punishment and training at once. Its fortunate she was available and willing to assist today. You should thank her for taking time out of her busy schedule.

Hebiko: But what about Shikanosuke!? He was always helping us too!

Natsu: This particular method of punishment is a 1 on 1 exercise. We will have to deal with Shikanosuke later when we find him.

Shiranui: Yes, in the meantime Natsu and i will catch up and enjoy a peaceful discussion for a couple hours. Be silent and do not disturb us. Failure to do so will extend the duration.

I dont think the fluid nature of sand can be properly marked in any way.

War arc Gaara proved capable of separating gold sand down to the individual grain. So that means hiding tags anywhere in it is out.

Minato genuinely has no method to reach him and Gaara's sand isnt slow. It competes with the top tiers of speed.

He didnt have Gracious Deity Gates during his fight with Madara. If this is, "Well yeah, no shit everybody knows that", then please just disregard. Not sure how widely this is accpeted or not. I figured it was common sense but i've seen enough comments here and there saying otherwise so i figure its worth pointing out.

The Gracious Deity Gate spam that happens as soon as he stepped onto the field should be clear indication since this never once showed up during VotE, even though it would have been very useful for the situation. Its also used against every difficult opponent he has now. So its obviously his new trump card even moreso than the Buddha statue.

Evidence for this is how we see it appear again inside Naruto when Kurama name drops Hagoromo. During the Minato one-shot, Kurama connects the seal to both the Uzumaki clan and Hashirama. We know Kushina taught her sealing techniques to Minato. So the common sense deduction to make from all of this is Hashirama aquired Deity Gates from Mito.

This means for purposes of scaling he actually sits a fair bit above VotE. Since he can bind not just Bijuu but any other target with it. And it must scale higher than anything he does with wood release as there'd be no point in using it otherwise.

Four main points with four images put together to coincide.

TLDR: Nagato is going down like a sack of potatoes the instant he puts a black rod in Itachi.

Point 1: Black rods are Pain's go to strategy.

He's seen using this in any fight where the opponent is more than a zero-diff speed bump. The obvious reason is disrupting the chakra makes them considerably easier to deal with. I dont think its controversial to say this would realistically come up WELL before Chibaku Tensei or Chaotic Shinra Tensei. Obviously in any scenario Pain uses either of them off the rip, its game over... but that isnt going to happen.

Point 2. Sharingan genjutsu functions the same in psychic planes.

Orochimaru thought he was safe from genjutsu because a psychic attack bypasses vision. Sasuke proved him wrong. Evidently just connecting the chakra in any way is sufficient. This isnt the only example. Sauske was even able to see into Naruto's private conversation with Kurama. This is a step beyond just hitting either of them with genjutsu imo.

Point 3. Nagato's black rod control can be overpowered and resisted.

Naruto demonstrated this. While an argument could be made that this is the beginning of BSM which is many times more powerful than anything else seen for a very long time, this is still the bare minimum early stage of it. With no cloak or visible chakra to speak of on an exhausted Naruto, i wouldnt put much stock in it compared to Itachi's Tsukiyomi power wise.

Point 4. Nagato establishes a two-way connection through the rods.

Not only can he be resisted, he can also be attacked or he at least cannot stop undesirable outcomes, such as being tracked. This connection leads all the way back to Nagato.

What does all of this mean when we put it together? It means Nagato cannot stop Itachi from tagging him with Tsukiyomi through the black rod connection. A lot of people tend to think Nagato is immune to Sharingan genjutsu because of the Rinnegan. But that argument shouldnt hold up when we have Sasuke doing it through psychic planes having nothing to do with vision.... If its even true that Nagato is immune visually anyway.

Nevermind the fact saying otherwise completely destroys the manga's entire narrative around Naruto and Sasuke defeating Obito to save the world while the immortal, adult zombies are too busy playing grab-ass and screwing around.

​

Both of them have no answer to Amaterasu. We are supposed to scale off evidence and "assuming they must have dealt with it" doesnt cut it for a debate. Sasuke can manipulate and control it at will too easily. It is going to burn up whatever these two throw out and there is nothing they can do about it.

​

This common talking point pushed around to downplay Naruto with the "he only has half Kurama" nonsense is just that... nonsense. There were statements given from a long time ago about the difference between raw Bijuu in nature vs ones bonded to a host. Consider the abilities and qualities of the host filling in for the missing half... then on top of that add the Sage Mode multiplier applied to BSM. We dont even really know how "half Kurama" actually works in power scaling since there is at least the Kin/Gin brothers running around with their own portions. The manga apparently ignores their percentages but its enough for them to summon V2 cloaks.

​

Im also not buying that Madara's (or anyone really) genjutsu control over another being is in any way the same as trying to fight its living, thinking brain at 100 percent capacity. Madara can basically just use it like a giant mech, giving it simple commands and thats about it. Meanwhile Kurama is throwing hands with Juubito.

I dont want this to devolve into a generalized Itachi vs Pain discussion because Pain is heavily glazed on most Naruto fan circles and i know how that will go.

So instead, i'd like to talk about this genjutsu/black rod scenario specifically because i dont think this will end well for Nagato if he tries it based on what the manga has suggested through these parallel situations.

Imo the key factor here is a black rod is directly connecting Pain's chakra to a target. That makes it a different situation than say for example when Jiraiya's Frog Song didnt work. It only tageted Pain bodies because he isnt on a direct, two-way channel. Given that Oro believed he was totally safe and thats not even technically eye contact involved at all, i feel like the genjutsu will take Nagato out.

Particularly im interested in Obito, Itachi, Tsunade, Danzo but if you think some other reactions are worth discussing, thats fine.