u/Noodneek

When I went to their cave, there was just one lonely swarmer sitting there, and after I killed him, suddenly I got the notification of clearing the horde.... And indeed, all 24 of his deceased buddies were inside the cave (I counted the ears), with a dead wolf in the middle...

As an experiment, I rolled back to my save just before I went to O'Leary Mountain, then, instead of going strait to the cave, I slept twice, thinking they might respawn, but instead, this time they ALL were already dead, with the same dead wolf in the middle, so I could only collect the ears, but no credit for the horde... So I restored the save just after killing that last surviving swarmer and getting the credit.

What I think happened was that all the poor freakers there were taken out by local wolves (there are a lot of them on O'Leary Mountain) in 3-4 days that passed since 7 new Cascades and Belknap hordes spawned there and I went back to these regions to clear them. O'Leary Mountain Horde was among the last ones I cleared, and I suspect, that if I waited one more day, I would end up with all the horde dead and no way to get the credit for it...

I wonder why there's no fail-safe for a situation when a small vulnerable horde like that one is occasionally eliminated by other NPCs, so that the player could still get credit for it... If there is none, it would be a good advice to pay a visit to O'Leary Mountain Horde immediately after returning to the region to clear newly unlocked hordes...

I'm in a process of getting level 3 trust in the Lost Lake before that chapter even starts. I went there (by climbing the cliff with my bike and crossing the mountain ridge to the south) very early into Act I – after receiving the replacement bike from Manny, I completed only 3 starting missions, then went on my premature unofficial trip.

Now, I follow all the trust points I receive from the camp very meticulously, but the numbers simply don't add up... So far I cleared all available Lost Lake Infestations (3), NERO Checkpoints (2), Ambush camps (2) and hordes (3). Besides that, I cleared one checkpoint in Iron Butte, which also contributes to LL trust. And finally, I was able to send there 35 survivors (only one left to achieve the goal of getting enough points for LL level 3 just after I move there).

As I said, that region is still officially locked, so I haven't done a single mission there yet, and also, bounty and food stalls in Iron Mike's camp are inactive, so all the activities I listed above are the ONLY sources of my trust points there. Here's the screenshot that illustrates the situation:

https://preview.redd.it/ny3kucwpsjjh1.jpg?width=1740&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=89ed8bb26a9b2c5b6b1f7a951466b83e59a0af11

As you can see, the current trust figure is 22,350/25,000, but according to my calculations, it's supposed to be 22,200! I tried to check the numbers several times, and the source of those extra 150 points is still a mystery... Here's the breakdown, you can check the math if you want:

Trust source	Trust points	n	Sum
Ambush camps	350	× 2	700
Infestations	350	× 3	1,050
NERO Checkpoints	350	× 2	700
Checkpoint in IB	450	× 1	450
Hordes	600	× 3	1,800
Survivors	1000	× 35	35,000
Total trust points:			39,700
Level 3 fraction:	−(5,000+12,500)		22,200

Does anyone have any idea where the additional 150 points came from, or it's possibly just a weird glitch?
Not that I'm complaining, these extra points came in handy, but after investing so much time in all that calculus, it's a bit frustrating when the numbers refuse to add up... 😁

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UPDATE: According to EyeBallEmpire in the comments, you also get 50 trust points for killing every marauder that attacks the camp.
I'd really appreciate if someone else cam confirm, this seems like a very plausible explanation!

Just got snared at the gas station in the NW corner of Iron Butte (to the west of the horde, to the northwest of the ranch). Took out all rippers, but can't find my stuff – I'm running around the whole compound for 20 min, checking and rechecking every building and every corner, but for the life of me I can't locate it...

If the same happened to you in this location and you remember where that freaking chest was, I'd really appreciate a hint! Thank you!
This is the place:

https://preview.redd.it/erttpkm9d3jh1.jpg?width=1344&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=41c8dff43e0e1755be30ef10bab91e7a9b5960dc

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UPDATE: Found it!! It was at the back of some car in the middle of the yard, when I thought it must be in some building :))) Here, for future reference:

https://preview.redd.it/fj3gxccbk3jh1.jpg?width=2236&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bffb768fc7878920cc5716e1d901c5f06c5fa1d1

During my 1^(st) playthrough, just after unlocking Lost Lake, I made some research and calculations to get an actual breakdown of all trust points from quests and other activities that you can get in the first two camps in the game. So, allow me to share it with you, as well as my thoughts on relevant aspects of game strategy based on exact numbers.

First of all, here are four important pieces of basic info:

1. As was explained to me recently by other members of the community, the reason to reach trust level 3 in the first 3 camps (other than unlocking desired upgrades in any of them), is a different cut-scene much later in the game before you embark on one of the key quests.
2. 5,000 trust points are required for level 1, then another 12,500 points for level 2, and finally 25,000 for level 3.
3. At the end of one of the early main quests, if you give the drugs to either Tucker or Copeland, it will add 5,000 trust points to the camp of the one you chose.
4. Unlike any other camp, sending survivors to Hot Springs doesn’t give you any trust points there, only credits. By contrast, Copeland’s camp rewards you with 500 trust points for every survivor, and Lost Lake with 1,000.

Now, the breakdown.

If you don’t care about reaching trust levels 2 and 3 in Hot Springs as early as possible and just want to assure you get level 3 in both camps before the aforementioned cut-scene without much fuss, give the drugs to Copeland. If you do that, you will only need to complete all the relevant quests and non-random activities (NERO Checkpoints, Ambush Camps, Infestations and hordes) in the Cascades and Belknap:

Drugs to Copeland

As you can see on the table above, no selling ears/meat/plants and no sending survivors is needed, you will get above required 25,000 points in both camps even if you sell nothing there and send no survivors to Copeland. Therefore, you can save all ears/meat/plants and survivors for other camps with better upgrades and weapons.

Giving the drugs to Copeland will probably immediately boost his trust to level 2 or very close to it, though level 2 bike upgrades from Manny are not very impressive to say the least - the only significant one is Saddlebags I. The rest includes Fuel Tank II (which is just slightly larger than Tank I), Fender I and Wheel II (each adds a very small amount of durability). BTW, level 3 at Copeland's unlocks only one additional bike upgrade, which is purely cosmetic and utterly useless, especially if you unlocked better mechanics in other camps...

On the other hand, reaching trust levels 2 and 3 in Hot Springs earlier might give you important benefits. Level 2 will allow you (among other stuff) to acquire MWS, which is much better primary weapon compared to SAF that was picked from an enemy (and you will be able to refill MWS ammo from any safe location). Level 3 will unlock US556, which is one of the two best assault riffles in the game, and MG45 machine gun; you’ll also be able to buy frag grenades from the vendor.

This is the reason you might want to give the drugs to Tucker instead, and here things become interesting. Here's the breakdown when those 5,000 trust points go to Hot Springs and not to Copeland’s camp:

Drugs to Tucker

After you give the drugs to Tucker, most probably you’ll still be at trust level 1 in both camps with quite a number of trust points needed to reach level 2 in any of them, though the things in Hot Springs will be much better. Things at Copeland’s camp will be worse, but level 2 bike upgrades there are quite weak (I described them all earlier). Reaching trust level 2 there after you give the drugs to Tucker will require from you to complete all NERO checkpoints, Ambush Camps and Infestations in the Cascades (if you haven't already), and, additionally, to clear 3 available local hordes and send 2 survivors to Copeland’s camp.

To reach much more useful trust level 2 in Hot Springs after you give the drugs to Tucker, you will need to clear all NERO Checkpoints (2), Ambush Camps (3) and Infestations (3) in Belknap. In addition to that, you will need to complete the 1^(st) bounty for Tucker (“Nice and Bloody”), or, alternatively, clear one of the 4 available hordes in Belknap. As a possible alternative to one of the checkpoints/camps/infestations, you can do the next main quest (“What Did You Do?”), it will reward you with the same amount of trust points. You can also clear more hordes in Belknap; each will give you twice as much points as one checkpoint/camp/infestation.

Also, if you give the drugs to Tucker, it will give you an opportunity to reach level 3 in Hot Springs immediately after unlocking Lost Lake. If you come back to Belknap, a new Tucker's assignment and 3 more hordes will be readily available in the region. Given that you’ve already completed all previously available quests and activities (which included 4 local hordes), completing this new assignment and eliminating these 3 new hordes will put you at 22,100/25,000 for level 3. That means you will need to earn only 2,900 additional points. If you clear all 15 relatively small hordes in Belknap and the Cascades, you will have at least 755 swarmer ears worth 2,265 points, and I’m sure you will have more ears at this point of the game (If you haven’t sold any), and also some meat and plants you can trade as well, so the remaining 635 points won’t be an issue. If you need more ears, you can clear some hordes in Lost Lake region (there will be 3 of them available, 75 strong each), or farm a respawnable small horde of 25 swarmers in the deep narrow canyon underneath Belknap Caves Ambush Camp (they will respawn every time after you sleep twice, save and reload the game).

But if you don’t want to do this, the remaining quests later in the game will cover all the points needed for level 3 in Hot Springs before the moment when you’d want that for narrative reason.

Now, Copeland’s trust is another issue if those 5,000 points for the drugs went to Tucker. As you can see on the 2^(nd) table above, after completing all the available non-random quests and activities before the cut-scene, you will still need 3,150 points for level 3. But, you can bring survivors to his camp, and you will need only 6 of them to cover almost all the remaining points! Most probably, you will encounter much more than 6 from the start of the game, but I recommend not to send more than 6 to Copeland, but send all the others in the three starting regions to Lost Lake, you will have much greater benefits there. If you haven’t been to Lost Lake encampment yet and have already sent 6 survivors to Copeland, when you see a new survivor, just quickly move away, they will respawn later in the game.

So, to conclude, if you want to reach trust levels 2 and 3 in Hot Springs as early as possible, but still assure you get level 3 in Copeland’s camp as well before the pivotal narrative moment, here are several guidelines you should follow:

1. Complete all quests and activities in the Cascades and Belknap (in any order, if you prefer to clear the map of camps, checkpoints, infestations and hordes first, do that).
2. Do not sell ears, meat and plants to Copeland during the early game, keep them for Hot Springs, sell all gathered ears there until you reach trust level 3 in that camp.
3. Give the drugs to Tucker.
4. Send survivors to Copeland until he gets 6 of them, then save them for Lost Lake and send all of them over there once you can do that.

I appreciate your attention and hope you will find this useful, thank you. 🙂

This is my first playthrough. First, what have I done in the game right now.

Story-wise, I'm just about riding to the Lost Lakes for the 1st time, just need to enter the gate (I know this because I already have, but decided to roll back to a moment just before that and do some other stuff before making this step). Before that I chose to give the cooler to Tucker and not to Copeland, since Alkai's higher-trust stuff seemed more appealing than Manny's, and I also knew that I can't earn Tucker's trust by sending survivors to her camp (and I'd never do this anyway). Nevertheless, now I need another 13.9K trust points to reach level 3 at Copeland's and 5.7K at Tucker's. I did 3/6 encampment jobs for Copeland and 3/8 for Tucker, and when I reach the Lost Lake, 4 more hordes will be available in the Cascades and 3 in Belknap.

My style of playing is to explore, collect and unlock as much stuff as I can before significantly progressing through the story. So after a number of story missions I cleared everything in the first two regions, including ambush camps, infestations, NERO check points/research sites, collectibles and 8 hordes that were available at that point.

Then it irked me that I can't explore even further to get some solid XP for much wanted skills and to unlock more crafting recipes, so I found the way to do this using Deacon's iron legs (IYKYK). I cleared everything I could in all other regions as well. It was quite a challenge without the ability to use the map (I play the remastered version), but, among other stuff, I eliminated 3 available hordes in the Lost Lake (+ Iron Butte horde) and 6 in the remaining regions. So I've got a LOT of ears (2.1K just from the hordes) - I sold about 1.3K in Belknap, less than a hundred in the Cascades, and I still have in my bag 952 swarmer ears (plus some other kinds I haven't sold to anyone yet). Now, I don't really know to which camp I should sell them, and I need to sell at least some to free space in my ears bag. Maybe to the Lost Lake camp, since I will be there very soon?

Also, I've sent 6 survivors to Copeland, but then I visited the Lost Lake camp, and since then I've sent about a dozen to the Lost Lake, making there well over level 2 trust. I have Level 1 trust in Wizard I. and level 2 trust in Diamond L. So far I've sent 1 survivor to the former and 4 to the latter.

Now, I really want level 3 in Belknap, Lost Lake and Diamond L. I don't really see the point going beyond level 2 in Wizard I. and definitely not in the Cascades, there's nothing there I need after reaching level 2 in the Lost Lake and Diamond L. And I need level 3 in only 3 camps for the corresponding achievement, but after some research I couldn't find a reason to do this in all the camps. Do anyone know why would I wanna do this? Also, do you have some advice to whom I should sell the remaining ears, meat and plants and send survivors? Thanks!

EDIT: I see that some people apparently don't read what I wrote and miss what I have accomplished so far, so I will put some screenshots to make it more clear. :)

Map, current mission and Copeland's trust level

Credits and trust in each camp, some items in my bag and some bike stats

My progress

Skills and endurance levels

My gear and my bike

More screenshots of my progress here: https://ibb.co/album/x14SKs

First time it happened when I ditched the crossbow to take a weapon dropped by an enemy - next time I took it out of the locker it was completely empty - I had zero regular and zero crafted special bolts in my inventory. I thought, maybe it was because I ditched it on the ground instead of exchanging with other owned special weapon stored in the locker. Shortly after I bought another special weapon and kept the crossbow in the locker until I got "Up the ante" skill to increase carried ammo capacity.

That's when it happened for the second time - I took the crossbow out of the locker to check how much bolts I can carry with the skill and craft some to fill up the stock. It was completely empty once again. I thought it was maybe because of the new skill and crafted all the bolts, consuming quite a number of resources. Then I checked if all the bolts are still there if I swap the crossbow with bought LMG and back - I still had all the bolts, which calmed me down.

But after some time (which included 2-3 in-game days, and also saving and reloading) I decided to use the crossbow for some mission, and had zero bolts in my inventory again!!

Is this a known bug? Is there a way to fix it or I will have to craft all the bolts every time I leave the crossbow in the locker?

FYI, I play remastered version + broken road DLC on PC (via Steam). Thank you.