u/One_Stretch_2949

EDIT : TURNS OUT DYLAN WAS NOT THER WHEN THE DOG GOT LOST, BUT LET'S TAKE THAT AS A THOUGHT EXPERIMENT. ABOUT ACCIDENTS vs ABUSE.

What's the meaningful difference between these two situations?

• Denise Fenzi left her dog in a climate-controlled car. The system failed, and the dog died.
• EDIT : NOT TRUE, Dylan was NOT there when the dog got lost. Dylan Jon€s (had to write it like that because somehow it seems like I can't post with his full name in it...?) was working with a feral client dog on a long line and prong during a training session. The dog escaped and has never been found, and many assume he likely died.

As you all know, Calypso has posted a bunch of claims about Dylan Jon€s being an abusive trainer. However, when I looked at their profile, the only sources linked regarding Dylan were Gia Savocchi's posts about the Henry incident, a feral client dog that ALLEGEDLY escaped during a training session with him and was never recovered.

So I'd genuinely like to discuss this.

Why is one incident generally framed as a tragic accident while the other is often presented as evidence that the trainer is inherently abusive? (One way or the other)

Is the distinction simply that one happened during training vs management? Is it about negligence? Foreseeability? Repetitivity?

I'm interested in hearing reasoned arguments from both sides. Calypso, if you'd like to expand on your position, I'd appreciate it.

I want a debate, a thought experiment, not another talk about these two.

I just blind bought Lalique Encre Noire, because I'm really into forest fragrances right now.
It smells a lot like Trudon Deux, very in your face pine green forest, damp, almost like old damp wood. Very gothic for sure, kind of like a haunted forest. Smells like danger. Very much Nosferatu, but great scent, nor for the weak though, very much unique!

I wouldn't recommend it as a blind buy.

It's not really a training debate, it's more of a question about shared responsibility and where people draw the line between managing their dog and expecting reasonable behavior from the environment.

I'm curious where people draw the line between managing their dog and expecting reasonable behavior from the environment.

This question came up for me after a few recent close calls in my apartment building where children came running out of elevators or around blind corners and nearly collided with my dog in the hallway, who is sensitive and has a history of human reactivity. He's now well trained, muzzled in shared spaces, and neutral to people even off leash, but he can still get startled when someone suddenly appears right on top of him in situations like these, when he is cornered.

It also got me thinking about other situations that seem to raise a similar question. For example, people reaching out to pet a dog without asking, strangers allowing their friendly dogs to rush up to a leashed dog, joggers or cyclists passing very closely and very fast from behind, or children running up excitedly before the handler has a chance to intervene. In all of these cases, dog owners are generally expected to be paying attention and managing their dogs, but there also seems to be an expectation that other people will exercise at least some basic awareness and courtesy. Most of my trail running friends, for example, have a pretty strong common-sense habit of slowing down and giving dogs space when passing, probably because they've had enough close calls with dogs on mountain trails. Personally, I usually keep running when passing dogs, but I make sure not to pass too closely. None of us would approach or pet a dog in public without permission, but many people seem perfectly comfortable doing so.

Many dogs, even generally well-behaved ones, can be startled when people suddenly appear very close to them in confined spaces where there isn't much room to move away. Apartment hallways, elevator exits, stairwells, and blind corners seem like common examples.

As dog owners, we're often told that it's our job to manage our dogs and not expect the world to accommodate them. I agree with that to a large extent. But I'm wondering how people think about situations where a dog is already being managed appropriately and someone unexpectedly rushes into its space.

For example, children running full speed out of an elevator, around a blind corner, or through a hallway and nearly colliding with a leashed dog. Or someone moving quickly into a dog's space before either the dog or handler has time to react. Or a stranger bending over a dog to pet it without asking, assuming every dog is comfortable with that kind of interaction.

My question isn't really about training. I'm genuinely wondering where people think the responsibility line is.

As dog owners, we're often told that it's our job to manage our dogs and not expect the world to accommodate them. I agree with that to a large extent. But at what point is it reasonable to expect other people to exercise some basic caution too?

Should dog owners always be anticipating every possible interaction and keeping their attention on their dog at all times? Or is it reasonable to expect other people not to approach unfamiliar dogs recklessly, rush into their space, or make physical contact without permission?

If you've already got your dog leashed, muzzled, under control, and in the only position available in a narrow hallway, is it fair to ask neighbors not to let their kids run full speed into dogs in confined spaces? Is it fair to expect strangers to ask before petting a dog? Or is all of that still considered entirely the dog owner's responsibility?

Interested to hear perspectives from all training philosophies.

Hi everyone, I've been looking for ages for a perfume that smells like a pine forest on very hot summer day.
I doesn't really smell like pine, it smells more like a dry wood scent, like of pinewood. It doesn't smell like a green pine smell, if you see what I mean.

Do you happen to know a fragrance that mimics that?

Thank you.

Hi everyone, I've been looking for ages for a perfume that smells like a pine forest on very hot summer day.
I doesn't really smell like pine, it smells more like a dry wood scent, like of pinewood. It doesn't smell like a green pine smell, if you see what I mean.

Do you happen to know a fragrance that mimics that?

Thank you.

Hi everyone, I've been looking for ages for a perfume that smells like a pine forest on very hot summer day.
I doesn't really smell like pine, it smells more like a dry wood scent, like of pinewood. It doesn't smell like a green pine smell, if you see what I mean.

Do you happen to know a fragrance that mimics that?

Thank you.

How do you distinguish between positive punishment (P+) and negative reinforcement (R-)?
Do you see the difference as a matter of intensity, timing, the effect on behavior, the contingency involved, or whether the dog can avoid the outcome?

I’m really curious to hear how each of you interprets this, especially depending on your training approach.