u/ProbablyProvisional

Foyan - Seeing
▲ 12 r/zen

Foyan - Seeing

師云:看見了,不柰何者多。既看見,如何却不柰何?祇為不識,所以不柰何。若看見識得,便柰何得也。然發心參禪便要會得,誰不願樂?祇為無箇入處,又強會不得。一切處不契合,一切處緣差,用力取不得。良久,云:你十二時中行住坐臥、折旋俯仰種種事業,一切處有超佛越祖底事,祇是你纔要解會時已無也。真箇是無也,你擬湊泊已背了也。所以道:看見祇是不柰何。莫是不擬心、不起解會時得麼?展轉更是不得也。會尚不得,豈況不會?若是靈利底人,纔聞山僧說向你,便能大開眼見得,豈不是沒量大人?向道:是法非思量分別之所能解。又道:智不到處。若不如此,爭稱佛法?而今兄弟家祇是呈箇解會、呈箇見處作道理,何曾解恁麼來?何曾得到恁麼田地來?若是有道種性底人肯恁麼去覷,

須是深深地體究、密密地看詳,忽然柰何得,便無疑情也。 你等不明,祇為十二時中被雜念奪將去也。葢為你要學事業,見物便愛,見文字便愛,尋逐時便緣將去也,道業何由得辦?凡學事業,人各有時,三十已上便不可學也。學亦難成,學得又何用?若己事辦去,學亦得在,葢已點化了也。若己事辦,又豈肯學也?若二十上下猶可學,若是靈利念生死之人,亦不肯學也。又凡是參禪,須是心地平直,心口相應,心言直故。如是始終地位,無委曲相,莫道我會也,我柰何得也。若柰何得,那裏更去問人也?你纔說會禪也,人覷你脚手,看你說話,所為底事,因甚却道者箇如何,那箇如何?既是會禪,又却是爭無明也?祇如道默耀韜光是如何?藏名晦跡又如何?不異人心是道又如何?各自省緣,莫說是非,且如行住坐臥、進退俯仰,一切處皆是超佛越祖。山前水牯牛有佛法,你纔尋究則已無也,何不恁麼識取?久立。

There are many who have seen it but still can’t do anything about it. Since they have seen it, why is it that they can’t do anything about it? It is as simple as; they do not recognize what they have seen. This is why they can’t do anything about it. If they have seen it and recognized what they have seen, then they could do something about it.

When people decide to study Zen, they want to understand it. Who wouldn’t celebrate this? The problem is that there is simply nowhere to start and no way to force an understanding. They are out of sync with everything everywhere, it all goes wrong, and no amount of effort can grasp it.

After a long silence: Throughout all the hours of the day, while walking, standing, sitting, lying down, turning, bending, bowing, or looking up or down, in any activity, in every situation there is something which surpasses the Buddha and transcends the Patriarchs. It is just that the very moment you try to conceptualize and understand it, it is already gone. Truly it is gone! The very instant you try to approach it you have already turned your back on it. 

This is why it is said “Even if you see it, you simply can’t doing anything about it.”

Maybe not thinking about it and not trying to understand it will lead to attaining it? This turning around and twisting about makes it even more impossible! If even “attaining” is impossible, how much more is “not attaining?” If you are a sharp-witted person the moment you hear me say this, you will open up your eyes wide and see it. Wouldn’t that make you a person of immeasurable capacity? 

It is said: “This Dharma can’t be understood with thought, calculation, or discrimination.” 

It is also said: “It is in a place where wisdom cannot reach.”

How else could it be called “Buddhadharma?” 

Yet nowadays you all only present your conceptual understandings or offer some 'view' as a rational explanation. When have you ever truly understood the Way? When have you ever reached such a place?

If someone with the seed of the Way is willing to delve into it like this, they must deeply and thoroughly investigate it, carefully examine it in secret. Suddenly, when they are able to handle it, all doubts will vanish. 

The only reason you remain unenlightened is simply because throughout the 24 hours for the day you are snatched up by distracting thoughts. You want to pursue worldly things/skills. The moment you see an object, you fall in love with it. The moment you see written words you are obsessed. While chasing after them you are snatched away by conditions. How can the work of the Way ever be accomplished like this? 

When it comes to studying and gaining skills in the real world, there is always a proper time and place for everyone. Once you are older than thirty, you should be done with study and learning new skills. Even if you study, it is hard to learn, and even if you do master it, what good does it do you? If you have managed to make a living for yourself, then study is possible, because you have already been transformed by life. But if you have truly settled the great matter of yourself - why would you go looking for more to learn? Around the age of twenty, one may still study worldly concerns, but if you are sharp-witted and mindful of the issue of life and death, you will not be willing to pursue them either. 

Anyway, when you investigate Zen, the mind-ground must be kept level and straight. The mouth must correspond to the heart, because one's speech must be kept straightforward. From beginning to end, there is no crookedness at any stage.

Do not say, “I understand.” or “I can handle it.”

If you can handle it why run around asking other people? 

The moment you declare: “I understand Zen,” people watch what you do, where you go, and study your words. Why do you still ask about “this” and “that?” Since you already understand Zen, why are you still pleading ignorance?

Consider the following phrases:

“What is ‘silent radiance, hidden brilliance’?”

“What is ‘concealing one’s name, hiding one’s traces’?”

“What is ‘the mind that is not different from ordinary people is the Way’?”

Each of you should examine your own conditions and stop discussing right and wrong. As for walking, standing, sitting, lying down, turning, bending, bowing, or looking up or down, in all places, everything is already surpassing Buddha and transcending Patriarchs. The water buffalo before the mountain has the Buddhadharma. But the moment you start to search and investigate, it is already gone.

Why not recognize it just like this?

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I just put the Chinese into three different llm's and directly typed up the most coherent version I could between a reading of all three. This was as much about seeing if this is a usable method or not. I'm frankly not convinced that Foyan is any more or less interesting than any other Zen master. (Well, I mean Zihu is pretty interesting.) What I mean is, I'm not really interested in working through all of Foyan's material, unless you guys are. I'm doing this because it is a lot of fun for me. But still, I really don't understand why Cleary was trying to make these lectures mysterious and opaque.

blah blah blah

u/ProbablyProvisional — 2 days ago
▲ 9 r/zen

Preface to the Re-carved Sayings of the Ancient Worthies

Since I have already shared some material from the Sayings of Ancient Worthies, I thought I would share the Preface which I think is pretty interesting. And because I know how much everyone enjoys long complicated posts featuring LLM generated translations and little direct exposition.

---

過去如是如是,見在如是如是,未來如是如是。幸自可憐生,無端

黃面老漢拈花瞬目,金色頭陀忍俊脫頥,不覺漏泄。一人傳虗,萬

人傳實,何時而已哉?人根有利鈍,故機語有開斂。鍼砭藥餌,膏

肓頓起,縱橫展拓,太虗不痕。雖古人用過,時無古今。死路活

行,死棊活著,觀照激發,如龍得水。故曰:言語載道之器,雖佛

祖不得而廢也。七佛偈及西天此土三十三傳,枝出派列,莫知其

幾。授受證據,洎夫抑揚示誨,見於傳燈,而多有載不盡者,往往

散落。

異時有頥藏主者,旁蒐廣採,僅得南泉而下二十二家示眾機語。厥

後又得雲門.真淨.佛眼.佛照等數家,總曰古尊宿語。非止乎此

也,據其所搜採而言耳。

夫古人得親故用親,行到故說到。其所說者,如國家兵器,不得已

而用之。從上為人,只貴眼正是。豈末流刻楮畵花,雕蚶鏤蛤,瞎

學者眼,所可同日語。

The past was thus and thus.
The present is thus and thus.
The future will be thus and thus.

Fortunately, it was already pitiable enough on its own — then, for no reason, that old yellow-faced fellow held up a flower and blinked his eyes. The golden-headed ascetic could not suppress a smile and his jaw came loose. Without realizing it, the matter leaked out.

One person transmitted an emptiness; ten thousand people transmitted it as something real. When will it ever stop?

People’s capacities have sharpness and dullness, and so the words used in response to circumstances have openings and closures. Needles, cauteries, medicines, and remedies: with them, even a mortal illness suddenly gets up. Freely extending in every direction, they leave no trace in the great void.

Although the ancients used them, time itself has no ancient or modern. On a dead road, one walks alive. With a dead chess position, one makes a living move. Observation and illumination arouse and activate, like a dragon gaining water.

Therefore it is said: “Words are vessels that carry the Way.” Even the Buddhas and Patriarchs could not discard them.

The verses of the Seven Buddhas, and the thirty-three transmissions from India to this land, branching out into lines and schools — who knows how many there are? The records of transmission and reception, the evidence of realization, and also the suppressions and elevations, the instructions and admonitions, are seen in the Transmission of the Lamp. Yet much of it could not be fully recorded, and often became scattered and lost.

At another time there was a head monk named Yi, who searched widely and gathered broadly. He obtained only the public instructions and encounter-dialogues of twenty-two houses from Nanquan onward. Later, he also obtained several more houses, including Yunmen, Zhenjing, Foyan, and Fozhao. Altogether these were called Sayings of the Ancient Worthies. This was not the limit of the matter; it only refers to what he had managed to search out and collect.

Now, the ancients had personally realized it, and therefore used it personally. They had walked to the place, and therefore spoke from the place.

What they said was like the weapons of a state: used only when there was no other choice. From the beginning, in dealing with people, what they valued was only that the eye be correct.

How could this be spoken of in the same breath as the later degenerates who carve paper leaves, paint flowers, engrave clams and carve shells, blinding the eyes of students?

覺心居士出善女倫,秉烈丈夫志操,不為富貴所障、世相所縻,著

淨名衣,坐空生室,安住正受,動靜提撕,是孰使之然哉?謂頥所

編古尊宿語刊于閩中,而板亦漫矣。兩浙叢林得之惟艱,勇捐己資

鋟梓流通,命禪衲精校重楷,不鄙索序。噫!亦異矣。昔月上女抗

舍利弗發明大涅槃,菴提遮對曼殊室利不生生、不死死義,達磨來

震旦以後,其間善女、等倫、橫機諸大老發明向上者多矣。近世秦

國計氏與夫空室道人皆以鍾鼎家世而為般若眷屬,今覺心則發揮古

宿機語以遺佛種,無二無二分、無別無斷故。

覺心魏氏,紹興丞相文節公孫,余文昌之室。先瑩住林菴虗席,命

慈林解無言者攝。解催請主菴人,覺心著語云:菴主只在菴中,為

甚麼不見?道有又無,道無却有。又不近,又不遠,舉頭鷂子過新

羅。參得著,喫盌麫。餘偈語多有,皆不計較而得,則日用中無非

禪悅法喜之樂矣。併見于此。

旹聖宋咸湻丁卯春清明日,江浙等處明州府阿育王山廣利禪寺住持

沙門物初大觀序。唐宋諸碩師,傳佛心宗,道大德備。室中垂示勘

辨,學者徵拈代別,皆有機語流布寰中久矣。惟傳燈一書,甞賜入

藏。諸師之語,傳燈不能備載者,有賾公藏主別集南泉.趙州.黃

檗.臨濟.雲門.真淨.佛眼.東山二十餘家,總若干卷,題之曰

古尊宿語,實有補於宗門。

The laywoman Juexin came forth from among the ranks of good women, yet she held the fierce resolve and integrity of a great man. She was not obstructed by wealth and rank, nor entangled by worldly appearances. She wore Vimalakīrti’s robe and sat in Subhūti’s room. Abiding peacefully in right absorption, whether active or still, she kept herself alert and lifted up.

Who caused her to be this way?

She said that the Sayings of the Ancient Worthies, compiled by Yi, had been printed in Fujian, but that the printing blocks had already become blurred and worn. In the monasteries of Liangzhe, obtaining the text was very difficult. So she courageously donated her own funds to have new blocks carved and the text circulated. She ordered Chan monks to collate it carefully and recopy it in standard script, and she did not disdain to ask me for a preface.

Ah! This too is remarkable.

In the past, the Maiden Candrottarā challenged Śāriputra and clarified great nirvāṇa. Amṛtā answered Mañjuśrī on the meaning of “the unborn born” and “the undying dead.” After Bodhidharma came to China, among good women and their peers there were many great elders who, with spontaneous functioning, clarified the matter beyond.

In recent times, Lady Ji of Qin-guo and also the Daoist of the Empty Room both came from households of bells and tripods, yet became members of the family of prajñā. Now Juexin brings forth and illuminates the encounter-words of the ancient worthies in order to leave them to the seed of Buddha — because there is no duality, no division into two; no separation, no cutting off.

Juexin is of the Wei clan, a descendant of the Shaoxing-era Chancellor Wenjie, and the wife of Yu Wenchang.

When the ancestral grave-site Lin’an hermitage was vacant, she invited Cilin Xie Wuyan to take charge of it. Xie urged her to invite a resident hermitage-master. Juexin made this saying:

“The hermitage-master is right there in the hermitage. Why is he not seen? Say he exists, and yet he does not. Say he does not exist, and yet he does. He is neither near nor far. Raise your head — a hawk has flown past Silla. If you can investigate and get it, eat a bowl of noodles.”

There are many other verses and sayings of hers. They were all attained without calculation or contrivance. Thus, in daily use, there was nothing that was not the joy of Chan and the delight of Dharma. These are included here as well.

Written on Qingming day in the spring of dingmao, in the Xianchun era of the sacred Song, by the śramaṇa Wuchu Daguan, abbot of Guangli Chan Monastery on Mount Ayuwang, Mingzhou Prefecture, Jiangzhe and other circuits.

The eminent masters of the Tang and Song transmitted the mind-school of the Buddha. Their Way was great and their virtue complete. Their instructions and examinations within the room, and the students’ citations, takings-up, substitutions, and distinctions, all had encounter-words that circulated throughout the world for a long time.

Only the single work Transmission of the Lamp was once granted entry into the canon. But the sayings of the various masters could not be fully included in the Transmission of the Lamp. So the head monk Zegong separately collected more than twenty houses, including Nanquan, Zhaozhou, Huangbo, Linji, Yunmen, Zhenjing, Foyan, and Dongshan, totaling a number of fascicles. He titled it Sayings of the Ancient Worthies. It truly supplements the Chan school.

reddit.com
u/ProbablyProvisional — 3 days ago
▲ 8 r/zen

Off to see a man about a dog

A lot of discussion and thought, and attempted "no" thought goes into the Case of Zhaozhou's Dog. I will attempt to add a couple of hats to this stack of hats anyway. Because...maybe I'm just a big stupid dumb dumb, you tell me. Just please, bare with me.

>A monk once asked Zhaozhou, “Has a dog the Buddha-Nature?Zhaozhou answered: No!

...Is not this a blessed condition? Wouldn’t you like to pass this barrier? Then concentrate your whole body, with its three hundred and sixty bones and joints, and eighty four thousand hair-holes, into this Question; day and night, without ceasing, hold it before you. But do not take it as nothingness, nor as the relative “not”, of “is” and “is not.” It must be like a red-hot iron ball which you have gulped down and which you try to vomit, but cannot...Every ounce of energy you have must be expended on it; and if you do not give up on the way, another torch of the Law will be lighted...

No, it's a fine word as far as I am concerned. But then why is a monk asking about a dog having or not having buddha nature? Did this dog talk just come from nowhere? What difference does "buddha nature" make? And why is this "no gate" guy talking about barriers and blessed conditions? Just how much bullshit are we supposed to swallow here?

So, Zhaozhou had a teacher, Nanquan, who was a pretty interesting fellow. He chopped a kitten up one time and he thought he was a water buffalo or something.

Record of the Ancient Worthies, Scroll Thirteen, Record of Chan Master Zhaozhou Zhenji

師問南泉:異即不問,如何是類? 泉以兩手托地, 師便踏倒,却歸涅槃堂內呌:悔!悔! 泉聞,乃令人去問:悔箇 什麼? 師云:悔不剩與兩踏。

>The master asked Nanquan, “Difference, I do not ask about. What is the same kind?
Nanquan put both hands on the ground. [Dog man? Buffalo man?]
The master immediately kicked him over, then went back into the Nirvana Hall and cried out, “Regret! Regret!”
When Nanquan heard this, he sent someone to ask, “What do you regret?”
The master said, “I regret I didn’t give him two more kicks.”

So Zhaozhou is kicking his other-kin teacher when he is down. I guess that the kitten chopper had it coming but still, what the hell? This is clearly serious Zen business going on.

And then there is this lecture by Zhaozhou. He talks about both dogs and buddha nature, separately. For some reason.

Record of the Ancient Worthies, Scroll Fourteen, Supplementary Sayings of Chan Master Zhaozhou Zhenji

師上堂,示眾云:金佛不度爐,木佛不度火,泥佛不度水,真佛內 裏坐。菩提涅槃.真如佛性,盡是貼體衣服,亦名煩惱。不問即無 煩惱,實際理地什麼處著?一心不生,萬法無咎。但究理而坐二三 十年,若不會,截取老僧頭去。夢幻空花,徒勞把捉。心若不異, 萬法亦如。既不從外得,更拘什麼?如羊相似,更亂拾物安口中作 麼?老僧見藥山和尚道:有人問著,但教合取狗口。老僧亦道:合 取狗口,取我是垢,不取我是淨。一似獵狗相似,專欲得物喫。佛 法向什麼處著?一千人萬人盡是覓佛漢子,覓一箇道人無?若與空 王為弟子,莫教心病最難醫。未有世界,早有此性。世界壞時,此 性不壞。從一見老僧後,更不是別人,只是箇主人公。者箇更向外 覓作麼?與麼時,莫轉頭換面,即失却也。

>The master ascended the hall and instructed the assembly, saying:
A golden Buddha does not pass through the furnace.
A wooden Buddha does not pass through fire.
A clay Buddha does not pass through water.
The true Buddha sits within.

Bodhi, nirvana, true suchness, Buddha-nature: all of these are clothes pasted onto the body. They are also called afflictions. If you do not ask about them, there are no afflictions. On the ground of actual reality, where could anything be placed?

When the one mind does not arise, the ten thousand dharmas have no fault. Just investigate the principle and sit for twenty or thirty years. If you do not understand, cut off this old monk’s head and take it away.

Dreams, illusions, empty flowers: it is useless labor to grasp at them. If the mind is not different, the ten thousand dharmas are also such. Since it is not obtained from outside, what else are you binding yourself with?

You are like sheep, picking up things at random and putting them in your mouths. What are you doing?

This old monk once saw Master Yaoshan say, ‘If someone asks about it, just teach him to shut his dog-mouth.’

This old monk also says: 'Shut your dog-mouth.' To take hold of me is defilement. Not to take hold of me is purity. You are just like hunting dogs, intent only on getting something to eat. Where can the Buddhadharma be placed?

A thousand people, ten thousand people: all are people seeking Buddha. Is there even one person of the Way to be found?

If you are to be a disciple of the King of Emptiness, do not let the mind become diseased. That is the hardest thing to cure. Before there was a world, this nature already existed. When the world is destroyed, this nature is not destroyed.

From the moment you see this old monk, you are no longer someone else. You are just the host, the master of the house. Why go looking for this outside? At such a time, do not turn your head and change your face. If you do, you lose it.”

That's pretty straight forward right? (What are you doing?) Sure, but it gets weirder. So, Nanquan had more than one heir, and well, let's just say that he gets up to some dog related 'shenanigans.'

Recorded Sayings of Chan Master Shenli of Mount Zihu in Quzhou, first generation, fourth generation under Nanyue and heir to Nanquan

師於門前下牓云:子湖一隻狗,上取人 頭,中取人心,下取人足,往來好看。 臨濟下有二僧聞得,遂遠 求尋訪,纔到,果見其牓,遂入門,以手揭簾,欲起未起,被師喝 云:看脚下犬。 僧近前禮拜,便問:承師有言:子湖有一隻狗, 上取人頭,中取人心,下取人足。如何是子湖狗? 師云:嘷! 嘷!僧無語,師便歸方丈。 後章州羅漢展和尚聞舉,云:者箇是 喫屎狗。 僧便問:如何是子湖狗? 展云:擘喋却。僧擬議,  展云:早被我咬殺了也。 明招和尚在羅山聞舉,遂云:洎賺數緉 草鞋,我本欲遊章南,如今不用去也。休!休! 僧便問:如何是 子湖狗? 招以手按膝,放身近前,云:噓!噓!

>The master posted a notice in front of the gate, saying:
“At Zihu there is one dog.
Above, it takes people’s heads.
In the middle, it takes people’s hearts.
Below, it takes people’s feet.
Those coming and going had better watch carefully.”

Two monks from Linji’s community heard about it and came from far away to seek him out. As soon as they arrived, they indeed saw the notice. They entered the gate. One monk lifted the curtain with his hand and was about to rise, but had not yet risen, when the master shouted, “Watch the dog under your feet!”
The monk came forward, bowed, and asked, “I have heard that you, Master, said: ‘At Zihu there is one dog. Above, it takes people’s heads; in the middle, it takes people’s hearts; below, it takes people’s feet.’ What is the dog of Zihu?”
The master said, “Woof! Woof!”
The monk had no words, and the master then returned to the abbot’s quarters.

Later, when Master Zhan of Luohan in Zhangzhou heard this story brought up, he said, “This one is a shit-eating dog.”
A monk then asked, “What is the dog of Zihu?”
Zhan said, “It has ripped you open and swallowed you.”
The monk began to hesitate and think it over.
Zhan said, “You were bitten to death by me long ago.”

When Master Mingzhao was at Luoshan and heard this story brought up, he said, “It nearly cheated me out of several pairs of straw sandals. I had originally intended to travel south to Zhangzhou, but now there is no need to go. Enough! Enough!”
A monk then asked, “What is the dog of Zihu?”
Mingzhao pressed his hands on his knees, leaned his body forward, and said, “Shoo! Shoo!”

So, Yes! That clarifies everything, right?

>What else are you binding yourself with?

Soundtrack

u/ProbablyProvisional — 8 days ago
▲ 5 r/zen

What will do or do what will?

Treasury of the Eye of True Teaching
[152]
Master Wuzu Yan said,
Yaoshan asked Shitou, “I have a rough knowledge of the twelve-part teachings of the three vehicles. I hear that in the South you point directly to people’s minds to show them their nature so they become enlightened. I do not understand this; please be so kind and compassionate as to instruct me.”
Shitou said, “This way will not do, not this way will not do; this way and not this way will not do at all.”
When I was a student, I heard brothers discussing this, saying, “Even ‘mind itself is Buddha’ will not do; denial of ‘mind itself is buddha’ won’t do either.” If you talk like this, how dare you call yourselves Channists? Why? You still don’t realize that old Shitou was equipped both culturally and martially; he was perfectly able both to hide and to plan.
As for my perception, I want everyone to know in common. If you only see the swelling of the waves, you do not see the dragon palaces in the ocean.

Will nothing do? Or is it more of a “nothing doing” situation? Why do people tend to think they have to do something or rather, have something to do?

Or am I still miles off stumbling in the dark muttering in my sleep? 💤

u/ProbablyProvisional — 15 days ago