r/zen

▲ 0 r/zen

How Zen's authentic self is different from Buddhism and Zazen

​

Authentic self... According to who?

Buddhists believe that you don't have a self. As a religion they get to make up whatever they want and part of convincing you to be a part of the Buddhist religion is promising you that you don't really have a self.

Zazen is an indigenous Japanese religion that promises people freedom that only exists within the religious practice. Dogen, the messiah of Zazen, tells his followers that you can't be yourself when you're confused by life. Now granted he wrote that when he was in his early 20s and he gave it up after less than a decade but that's the Doctrine of the Shikantaza Church

What about Zen?

Zen masters teach that you're always yourself, whether you know it or not.

Zen is the only tradition that follows Buddha's sudden permanent enlightenment, an enlightenment is only possible if the preconditions for it are ever present.

Zen's self is directly experienced. It's not known so there can't be a doctrine about it because every doctrine and every teaching is about knowing.

As knowing is subtracted and experience is emphasized, we get farther and farther away from things that sound true and closer and closer to "If you haven't been in love, you're just not going to understand it."

Yunju Zhi's no seer

Clearly seeing like this is then called seeing the nature. Nature is Buddha; Buddha is nature. Therefore it is said: seeing the nature, becoming Buddha.”

[The monk] said: “Since the nature is pure and does not belong to being or nonbeing, because of what is there seeing?”

The master said: “Seeing, with nothing that is seen.”

[The monk] said: “Since there is nothing seen, why further is there seeing?”

The master said: “The place of seeing also is not.”

[The monk] said: “At the time of seeing like this, whose seeing is it?”

The master said: “There is no one able to see.”

[The monk] said: “Ultimately, how is this principle?”

The master said: “Do you know? Falsely reckoning it as being, then there is subject and object; only then does it get the name ‘confusion.’

Now a warning?

Not being able to explain love to somebody who has never been in love doesn't mean that love doesn't exist.

The problem is that people try to apply this same logic to stuff that actually doesn't exist, like God and the supernatural and higher states of consciousness and telepathy and meditative or lsd insight.

The key difference is there are real people who have been enlightened but there are no real people that have had any of that other stuff. If you can encounter it in real life and bring it out, show it to everybody, then the fact that it exists like love but cannot be explained is plausible.

No doctrine required.

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u/ewk — 2 days ago
▲ 9 r/zen

Dogen paraphrasing Bodhidharma?

"Conveying oneself towards all things to carry out practice-enlightenment is delusion. All things coming and carrying out practice-enlightenment through the self is realization."
Dogen, Genjokoan, tr. Okumura

"When one does not understand, the person pursues dharmas;
when one understands, dharmas pursue the person."
Bodhidharma, Record I of the Long Scroll, tr. Broughton

Dogen catches a lot of flack around here, but man, he had a deep knowledge of Chan history and often incorporated it into his own writings.

I spend a significant amount of time studying early Chan and recently stumbled upon this seeming connection while reading The Bodhidharma Anthology.

What do you noble sons and daughters think?

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u/xiqiansdream — 2 days ago
▲ 9 r/zen

Traveling by night

Treasury of the Eye of True Teaching
[452]
A monk asked Muzhou, “Can the entire canon be recited in one breath?”
Muzhou said, “What pastries do you have? Set them right out!”

Dahui said, “When you get up early in the morning, there are also people who’ve been traveling by night.”

The Lankavatara Sutra-trans. Red Pine

“The Buddha told Mahamati, “I do not teach that there are no causes, nor do I confuse causes and conditions, rather ‘because this exists, that exists,’ the nonexistence of what grasps and what is grasped, and the awareness that these are nothing but perceptions of one’s own mind. Mahamati, as long as people cling to what grasps or what is grasped and are unaware that these are nothing but perceptions of their own mind, it is they who mistake the existence or nonexistence of external objects, not my teaching of dependent origination. I have always taught that things arise due to the conjunction of causes and conditions not that they arise without a cause.”

- - -

So, typically when someone post Zen texts, people expect some sort of explanation or exposition or something. Maybe that’s reasonable. But mostly I think Muzhou is giving a perfectly reasonable answer to the question.

In this case the answer is as much a demonstration of dependent origination as you could ask for. Question > Answer. Baker > Pastries. Monday morning > Donuts.

- - -

The Diamond Sutra

“Furthermore, Subhuti, undifferentiated is this dharma in which nothing is differentiated. Thus is it called ‘unexcelled, perfect enlightenment.’ Without a self, without a being, without a life, without a soul, undifferentiated is this unexcelled, perfect enlightenment by means of which all auspicious dharmas are realized. And how so? Auspicious dharmas, Subhuti, ‘auspicious dharmas’ are spoken of by the Tathagata as ‘no dharmas.’ Thus are they called ‘auspicious dharmas.’”

- - -

Auspicious donuts are spoken of as no donuts. Thus are they called auspicious donuts.

How do you read this case?
Do you prefer croissants?

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u/ProbablyProvisional — 3 days ago
▲ 0 r/zen

Zen and Sex Workers vs New Agers: Shockimg overlap!

​

Why are all these prostitutes in Europe?

On one of my first trips to Europe, I was stunned by both the prevalence of and tolerance for prostitution. How could Europe be all sophisticated and still have what seemed like slavery?

Well, if you know me, you know exactly what I did next: read some books.  Of the reading I did, a couple of things really stunned me. In a book called *Live Sex Acts: Women Performing Erotic Labor*, a sex worker described the frustration she felt when trying to get her customers to frankly express what they wanted. 

That's right. Customers were having trouble placing their order. It wasn't paying for intimacy that was the challenge. It was admitting what they were paying for.

What do you want (to be true)?

This is the exact problem we have with interviewing New Agers or reading books written by New Agers...

New-agers can't say what they believe.

They talk in vague Alan Watts platitudes. They insist that a meditative, stuporous trance can change your life. They express belief in an ephemeral divinity of goodness that has no mind of its own. 

Why?

Because these people really don't believe any thing, they believe in believing. 

So when they get to Zen, with its endless darkness of Emptiness without Goodness, obviously they are not going to get along with Zen. 

Foyan

“I respectfully urge you brothers: first, for the time being, get rid of the [objects of attention.]

All day, every day you think of clothing, think of food; all sorts of miscellaneous concerns are like the flame of a lamp—there is not one period in which they stop and rest.

Just remove the objects of your attention, [the causes of your knowing]; whatever subtle things [there truely are] will naturally become completely cleared away.”

I have no Zen for people to investigate, nor any Dharma to discuss with you. I only want each of you to accord with the message of Zen for yourselves.”

Teach that!

Foyan having nothing to teach people to make them Good - this is a tough job, made tougher by a modern society that is afraid to say a true-to-them word. 

Asking them to AMA is literally asking them for something they don't have. 

Asking new agers and Zazen people and mysticism believers to AMA is literally asking them for something they don't have. 

For most people social media is entirely performative. They aren't sharing what they know or what they are convinced of. They're sharing their belief in believing.

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u/ewk — 3 days ago
▲ 0 r/zen

No real, present-day experiences are Zen

Foyan Instructs

I tell you: as soon as you get involved with the slightest indication, it has already become fragmented. As soon as you try to reveal it by illuminating it with knowledge, it has already become darkened.

Now simply do not seize upon my words. Each of you, on your own, do your work.

Looking into the incidents of the ancients will do. Sitting quietly will do. Observing in every place will do. All are places where you do your work. Every place is a place where you realize and enter.

Just specialize single-mindedly in one place; as the days come and the months pass, you will necessarily be broken through / dealt with by it.

Performative rabbi voodoo shamanism

New Age communities hate on this forum every day, including downvote brigading and smack talking in other forums about how rZen is gatekeeping close-minded legit real life other perspectives.

These complainers are performative rabbi voodoo shamans and understanding how we know that is as simple as they cannot name a single book about Zen they've ever read.

If they had never read a single book about being a rabbi and they claimed they were a rabbi, they'd get shut down immediately. If they never read a single book about Cherokee shamanism nobody would tolerate their claims of being a Cherokee shaman. If they were trying to promote themselves as living the voodoo lifestyle and they weren't part of a voodoo community, nobody would take them seriously.

And all of these claims would be viewed as racist, bigoted, and white privilege without hesitarion.

not a specialist because you say so

I'm not suggesting that one time reading one book is gonna get you the credibility to rant about your personal experiences.

I'm saying that reading one book one time will help you understand the difference between your personal experiences and your understanding of Zen culture

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u/ewk — 4 days ago
▲ 0 r/zen

1950s raunchy sex scenes and Zen masters' public images

To catch a horn dog?

I was watching one of my favorite movies, To Catch a Thief, and there's a scene in it where Grace Kelly and Cary Grant are having a romantic moment. She's trying to get him to admit his erotic fascination with jewelry but he will only admit to an erotic fascination with Grace Kelly.

The end of the scene is shots of the fireworks that they were watching. I didn't really think about it. It's passionate kissing, fireworks, whatever, but in a following scene this time I noticed that she gets into an argument with her mother over some stolen jewelry. The mother says to her, "It's my jewelry so why are you upset? What did he steal from you?"

That seems to me to indicate that we were shown a raunchy sex scene with fireworks. But then I realized that 1950s audiences probably would have understood that intuitively. I didn't get this because I'm not from the there-then.

Zen master pervs

Naturally I began to think then about what Zen looked like from the outside to people who met Zen masters. I had a long conversation with ChatGPT about existing records and who created them and how we could find a record that was outside the Zen tradition but nevertheless about Zen masters.

What's it like for people to meet a Zen master when they don't live in the black robe community or the white robe community? What's it like to be outside of Zen looking in?

What are the things that I don't see on the texts because I'm not there - then?

Zhou Rudeng's recollection of first meeting Zibo Zhenke

相見慈容滿面……如故。

“When we met, his face was filled with compassion, and he received me as though we were already old acquaintances.”

余具覩如此。奇耶易耶。

“I personally saw him to be as I have described. Was he strange? Was he ordinary?”

予以目擊徐公一節可推。

“What I witnessed with my own eyes in the episode concerning Lord Xu is enough to infer [the truth].”

So this Zen Master had a reputation of being a little bit of a weirdo and the guy is saying, "I met him, he wasn't that weird?"

Apparently the list of weird things includes:

  • a disregard for personal hygiene

  • Dressing like a poor person

  • getting super angry at monks who ate meat and drank alcohol

  • not receiving guests, which later turned out to be really something his community imposed not something that he imposed

This doesn't really get me to where I wanna go

It just makes it look like spending a lot of time in the texts is a lot like being there.

That's surprising but it shouldn't be too surprising given the fact that that's what the texts were created for. It's why we have Jow Joe in the outhouse. That's why we have Kneeling Like a Foreigner. They're trying to tell you in the texts what it was personally like to see these people.

Most of the time ordinary. Some of the time not so much.

Cue the monk turning over the table with fireworks in the background.

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u/ewk — 6 days ago
▲ 7 r/zen

久住

I've now heard many koans that end like this.

A quick exchange between the questioner and answerer, then followed by this phrase:"He stood there for quite a while."

Why?

Is he thinking about what he just said?

Is he waiting for the next question?

Does he have nowhere else to go but to hang around?

If I had a sword I'd cut him down where he stood, for blocking my way. I guess that's why I don't have a sword. It would be cool asf I'm just saying.

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u/dpsrush — 7 days ago
▲ 0 r/zen

Let's Translate: Wumen's Warnings

I got a DM chiding me for not promoting these more including making sure they're in the sidebar.

I haven't done a comparative translation but I thought I would offer the first few steps that I go through when doing a comparative translation:

# chatgpt - find the Chinese, take the first pass.

> The text usually translated as “Wumen’s Warnings” or “Wumen’s Admonitions” is titled 禪箴 (Chán zhēn), literally “Chan Admonitions,” “Chan Cautions,” or “Needles of Chan.” It appears after the forty-eight cases of the Wumenguan.

* ewk- have to explain why the word needles is here.

> A reliable electronic source is CBETA, T2005, Chanzong Wumenguan. You can also see the photographic Taishō canon text in this NTU scan, page 20.

* ewk - need to run a comparison across the existing copies and maybe date when those copies became available.

# Chinese of Wumen

禪箴

循規守矩,無繩自縛。

縱橫無礙,外道魔軍。

存心澄寂,默照邪禪。

恣意忘緣,墮落深坑。

惺惺不昧,帶鎖擔枷。

思善思惡,地獄天堂。

佛見法見,二鐵圍山。

念起即覺,弄精魂漢。

兀然習定,鬼家活計。

進則迷理,退則乖宗。

不進不退,有氣死人。

且道如何履踐?

努力今生須了卻,

莫教永劫受餘殃。

# Problems with translation

禪箴

“Admonitions of Chan.”

循規守矩,無繩自縛。

“To follow the compass and keep to the square: binding yourself when there is no rope.”

* ewk - Goliath has it without rope. This language seems stronger * When there is no such thing as rope *?

規 and 矩 are literally the compass and carpenter’s square, hence prescribed rules and standards.

The warning is against becoming imprisoned by correct forms—not necessarily against discipline itself.

縱橫無礙,外道魔軍。

“To range vertically and horizontally without obstruction: the demonic army of the outside ways.”

縱橫 suggests moving freely in every direction.

A claim of complete spontaneity and unrestricted freedom can itself become a heterodox or demonic attachment.

* ewk - need to focus here because the language others have used does not really convey a refusal to accept restrictions

存心澄寂,默照邪禪。

“To preserve the mind in limpid stillness: the deviant Zen of silent illumination.”

* ewk - I need a footnote on silent illumination: etymology of the term. Who it applies to, controversy.

存心 means deliberately maintaining or holding the mind in a particular condition.

澄寂 is “clear and still,” like water allowed to settle.

默照, “silent illumination,” was also the name associated with a contemplative approach. Here Wumen attacks deliberately maintaining quiet inner clarity as a fixed state.

恣意忘緣,墮落深坑。

“To indulge the mind and forget conditions: falling into a deep pit.”

恣意 means letting the mind do as it pleases.

忘緣 means forgetting, abandoning, or becoming oblivious to conditioned relations and circumstances.

惺惺不昧,帶鎖擔枷。

“To remain alert and never obscured: wearing a lock and carrying a cangue.”

惺惺 is bright, awake, and keenly attentive.

* ewk - I have a footnote somewhere about the use of the term "bright". It should be repeated here

枷 is the wooden penal collar or cangue.

Even continuous spiritual vigilance becomes an instrument of confinement when deliberately maintained.

思善思惡,地獄天堂。

“To think good and think evil: hell and heaven.”

The syntax is extremely compressed. Literally, discriminating good and evil establishes the dual realm of “hell and heaven.” This recalls Huineng’s question: “Without thinking good and without thinking evil, at just this moment, what is your original face?”

佛見法見,二鐵圍山。

“Views of Buddha and views of Dharma: two Iron-Encircling Mountains.”

見 means a view, conception, or fixed way of seeing.

鐵圍山 is the vast iron mountain encircling a Indian cosmos.

* ewk - this needs a footnote and I think ChatGPT made a mistake regarding the mountains. I think it's a reference to an impassable terrain.

Conceptions of “Buddha” and “Dharma” become two enormous enclosing walls.

念起即覺,弄精魂漢。

“When a thought arises, immediately to notice it: a fellow playing with the spirit-soul.”

覺 can mean awaken to, notice, recognize, or become aware of.

弄精魂漢 is deliberately contemptuous: “a fellow fooling around with his psychic spirit,” meaning someone making a performance or contrivance out of monitoring consciousness.

* ewk - Spirit Soul is going to need a massive footnote

兀然習定,鬼家活計。

“To sit blankly cultivating concentration: the livelihood of a household of ghosts.”

兀然 suggests rigid, motionless, blank, or inert stillness.

活計 literally means one’s livelihood, trade, or customary business.

“Ghost-family business” suggests a lifeless practice belonging among the dead.

* ewk - this has come up and been argued before. I don't think Ghosts works in English. I think it's a reference to the living dead... Zombie mentality.

進則迷理,退則乖宗。

“If you advance, you lose the principle; if you retreat, you turn away from the source.”

宗 can mean the essential teaching, fundamental principle, ancestral tradition, or source.

Both pressing forward and withdrawing miss it.

不進不退,有氣死人。

“Neither advancing nor retreating: a dead person who still has breath.”

有氣死人 is literally “a dead person possessing breath”: biologically alive, but spiritually inert.

且道如何履踐?

“Now say: how will you tread it and put it into practice?”

履踐 literally means to tread, walk, carry out, or practice personally.

努力今生須了卻,

“Exert yourself—in this present life you must finish it completely.”

了卻 means to settle, complete, finish, or be done with the matter.

莫教永劫受餘殃。

“Do not let yourself, through endless kalpas, suffer the calamity left over.”

* ewk - this is a criticism of reincarnation so we need to make sure we include that

More naturally: “Do not allow the consequences of failing to settle it to afflict you for endless ages.”

The structure is intentionally merciless: rule-following is bondage, freedom is demonic, quietude is false Chan, spontaneity is a pit, awareness is a cangue, thought-monitoring is playing with consciousness, and stillness is ghost-work. Advance, retreat, and standing still are all rejected. Wumen is not offering a better mental posture; he is blocking every posture the practitioner might convert into a secure method or identity.

* ewk - I have to re-assess ChatGPT's argument because it hadn't occurred to me before that this constitutes a list of rejections of everything that can be thought of as useful or good

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u/ewk — 8 days ago
▲ 3 r/zen

What was the point of Zhaozhou’s investigating the old woman?

This is the 9th case of Wansong’s Book of Serenity,

>On the road to Taishan there lived a certain woman. Wherever a monk asked her, "Which way does the road to Taishan go?" the woman would say, "Right straight on." As soon as the monk would go, the woman would say, "A fine priest--he goes that way too." A monk told Zhaozhou about this; Zhaozhou said, "Wait till I check out that woman for you." Zhaozhou also asked the woman the same question. The next day he went up in the hall and said, "I have checked out the woman for you."

Zen’s pretty big on checking it out for yourself. So what’s your job when reading these cases? What do you check out for yourself?

I think that’s going to look different for everybody, but it’s only going to look different after we do the work of understanding what the hell is going on in the case. Does the translation make sense? Do we need to know anything important about its context in order to understand the meaning of the conversation? What does Wansong and Tiantong (or other Zen Masters say about this case)?

"Now I want to ask you: What was the point of Zhaozhou’s investigating the old woman?"

Here's Tiantong with some work for you,

>Old in years, attaining the essence, no mistake in transmission— > >The Ancient Buddha Zhaozhou succeeded to Nanquan.  > >The dead tortoise loses its life due to designs drawn on it; > >Even the steeds 'Chariot' and 'Wind-chaser' are encumbered by halter and bridle. > >Having checked out the woman's Chan, > >Told to people, it's not worth a cent.

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u/astroemi — 7 days ago
▲ 0 r/zen

Let's translate together! Using ewk theory of translation on Wumen's Poem about Baizhang's Fox

ewk theory of translation

The ewk theory breaks down translation into five sections. Why? Because if you try to footnote your way through a translation without these sections:

  • the text can become unreadable, with the eye constantly trying to sort through footnoting.
  • not all audiences want all sections; by sectioning we allow audience selection. If they just want Translation Questions or Restatement they can skip.
  • not every section is going to be the same length for any given text. Sometimes translation is super simple but context takes an hour. Sometimes the opposite.

Literal

  • using words and phrases which for the most part mean something in English.
  • No "four modes" what is that? It turns out that this means "four body postures"^1, 1. sitting, standing, lying, reclining.

###Context

  • Who the mentioned people are, how they know each other, what references they are making,
  • This is contextual material that Zen audiences had for 1,000 years. It's a "I told you that story so I can tell you this one" section.

Restatement

  • Relate the Case in your own words. This provides HUGE value, often accidentally.
  • 1900's translators often tried to cram the restatement into the literal translation, causing mistakes like words in translations that aren't in the text anywhere.

Translation Questions

  • Explain why this translation is different from other translations of the same material and/or same terms.
  • Explain why other translations are different from each other. Explain mistakes being made.
  • Mysticism and faith thrive on vagueness. Vagueness erases the challenging philosophical questions Zen Masters thrive on.

Discussion

  • Explain why for 1,000 years people thought this Case was meaningful in their everyday lives, and how today's audience can understand the same meaningfulness.
    * Identify the universal philosophical questions under dispute: Nanquan killed a cat. Is cat killing bad? Can anyone kill a cat? Can Masters do what they want? * Identify the particular philosophical questions under dispute: Nanquan was a vegetarian pacifist Zen hippy his whole life. Why jump off the bandwagon over this non-edible can? Why didn't his congregation desert him? Why did he risk his community by killing this cat?

Testing

Here's Wumen's poem on Baizhang's Fox:

不落不昧 兩采一賽 不昧不落 千錯萬錯

It's only four sentences! Of four characters! How hard could that be to make sense of?

I'll save you a little headache and point out that 4x4 is a traditional structure, which means it's unlikely that this poem will feature Wumen shenaniganary, like when he lifts lines from other poems.\

There are some huge problems with this poem. Huge. Here's my translation which we can use as one of the disputed versions in the "translation questions" section.

ewk translation:

> Neither falling [into being subject to causation] nor ignorant of it, > > both these two matched in one contest. > > Neither oblivious [to causation] nor falling [into being subject to it] > > a thousand mistakes, ten thousand mistakes."

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u/ewk — 10 days ago
▲ 0 r/zen

Zen Principles: surprisingly unique compared to religions including Zazen, Taoism

Zen is about the Four Statements

https://www.reddit.com/r/zen/wiki/fourstatements/

  1. Transmission is not recorded in Texts

  2. Transmission is not gained through explanations.

  3. Transmission depends upon direct experience of the core of the self.

  4. Recognition of the core of the self is is called attainment of Buddhahood.

Buddhism's core principles are Commandments

Buddhism has the eight-fold path, a list of rules to follow so that you can accumulate merit.

> Aggappasāda Sutta: the noble eightfold path—right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration—is considered supreme... Those who have confidence in the dhamma of the noble path have confidence in what is supreme; and for those with confidence in the supreme, supreme is the result... having given gifts to the supreme,

one develops supreme merit…”

Zen's four statements don't give you any benefit at all and only describe enlightenment really to people who've already experienced it.

Zen is about direct real-life experience

A transmission not contained in teachings or texts

  • this is especially controversial in the world of religious thought because every religion and philosophy depends upon having an explanation that can be given to you.

Taoism, the religion, which is primarily alchemy and its pantheon of gods, has this Tao-Way that is identical to the ontological argument for a Christian God... What can be spoken or conceived of is not the divine.

Zen is antithetical to Daoism because Zen says direct experience can't be spoken. It's not an ontological argument. It's a common sense view... If you haven't been there or had that kind of food or fallen in love, you can't know it.

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u/ewk — 11 days ago
▲ 0 r/zen

Bodhidharma's "no Buddhism"

The Buddha named Bodhidharma

Emperor Wu of Liang asked Great Master Bodhidharma, “What is the first principle of the holy truth?”

Bodhidharma said, “Unobstructed with nothing holy.”

The emperor said, “Who is the one facing me?”

Bodhidharma said, “I don't recognize [him].”

What is Buddhism?

At the time the Indian Buddhism that had come to China taught very specific things:

  • Accumulate merit through good deeds, like building temples and copying sacred texts

  • Accumulated merit improved your rebirth status in the next life.

  • From repeated rebirth improvements. One could become a Buddha.

Since the Zen did not teach these things when Zen came to China, the Chinese said, "Well this is a different thing than we have been told about. We're gonna call this thing Zen."

Why people lie about Zen all the time on social media

  1. They believe in something holy.

  2. Facts don't matter when you believe in a holy thing.

You can always figure out whether facts matter to these people by saying, "What book did you read about Buddhism in?"

What book did you read about Zen in?

Religious people who are opposed to facts won't be willing to answer these questions.

They won't want to look fairly have their own conduct and be responsible for what they are doing in the world.

In this sense there's really no difference between Buddhism and corporate capitalism (neo-liberalism)... It is all entirely irresponsible, desire-driven impulsivity with no regard for fact.

Edit

One of the interesting things about this current social media climate (comparing this post vs the previous same post) so against Zen is that the very people that we need to advance the academic study of Zen (that is, people interested in Eastern philosophy) have been turned off by Shikantaza fraud and the sex predator scandals and the obvious stank of makebelieve fairies and elves mysticism that pervades Western Shinto-Buddhism.

But the people who hate on authentic Zen on social media, they want it that way. They want less academic work to go into Zen history. That's the real reason for the vote brigading and the harassment that we see online.

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u/ewk — 12 days ago
▲ 9 r/zen

Bodhidharma’s “No Merit”

From The Blue Cliff Record

Case 1 — Bodhidharma’s “No Merit”

Emperor Wu of Liang asked the great teacher Bodhidharma, “What is the highest meaning of the holy truths?”
Bodhidharma said, “Empty, without holiness.”
The Emperor said, “Who is facing me?”
Bodhidharma replied, “I don’t know.”
The Emperor did not understand.
After this Bodhidharma crossed the Yangtze River and came to the kingdom of Wei.
Later the Emperor brought this up to Master Zhigong and asked him about it.
Zhigong said, “Does Your Majesty know who this man is?”
The Emperor said, “I don’t know.”
Zhigong said, “He is the Mahasattva Avalokitesvara, transmitting the Buddha Mind Seal.”
The Emperor felt regretful, so he wanted to send an emissary to invite Bodhidharma to return.
Zhigong told him, “Your Majesty should not say that you will send someone to fetch him back. Even if everyone in the whole country were to go after him, he would not return.”

Xuedou’s Verse

The holy truths are empty;
(The point is long gone. Ha!)
How to discern the point?
(Slipped past. What is hard to discern?)
“Who is answering me?”
(A second try isn’t worth half a cent. You too go on like this?)
Again he said, “Don’t know.”
(A third one, a fourth one, hits the mark. Tsk!)
Henceforth he secretly crossed the river;
(Unable to lead another by the nose, now it’s he who is being led by the nose. Heavens! He sure isn’t a great man.)
How could he avoid the growth of brambles?
(The brambles are already several yards deep right here.)
Though everyone in the land pursues him, he won’t return;
(A double case. Why pursue him? Where is he? Where is the spirit of a great person?)
Forever and aye, vain remembrance.
(Wringing the hands, beating the breast, making a plea to the sky.)
Stop remembering!
(What are you saying? This is living in a ghost cave.)
What limit is there to the pure wind circling the earth?
(After all, even the great Xuedou tumbles into the weeds.)
Then Master Xuedou looked around to the right and left and said, “Is there any patriarch here?”
(So you want to retract your statement? You still act like this?) He answered himself, “There is.”
(He puts himself to so much trouble.)
“Call him to wash this old monk’s feet.”
(Give him another beating and drive him out—it would be no more than he deserves. Acting like this, still he’s gotten somewhere.)

Celery

Emperor Wu studied the Path, served the Buddha, built temples, ordained monks, and was known as the Buddha Heart Emperor. No merit whatsoever. Sand castles built during low tide.

This subreddit has a real responsibility to the world. People who want to learn about the Path come here as their first stop and I’m not convinced it does an adequate job. We have members who are obsessed with sexual abuse and others who pray to words. The wordless transmission has been bastardized and made cheap, as though Zen could be intellectually mastered. The blind leading the dumb in a near literal sense.

I’ve been accused of attempting to teach. I am no more than an OSHA inspector sanctioning a job site for dangerous conditions. Understand the seriousness of the situation - you don’t just deal with one lifetime, you deal with infinite life cycles.

Why did Bodhidharma come from the west? The “answer” is he came to shift Chinese Buddhism away from heavy reliance on formal rituals, text study, and building temples and towards direct inner enlightenment. And now what does this sub seek to achieve? 2 steps forward, 3 million steps back.

Leave your logic at the door. You are bringing a knife to a gun fight. Zen transcends it. I do not advocate anti-intellectualism. I advocate Zen. If you believe that the koans are something to be studied and mastered, you are a fool. If you believe that there is no need to study the direct transmissions, you are a fool. The first step is to let go of your preconceived notions, to understand that there is no understanding.

The first transmission wasn’t a lengthy book report, nor was it a fantastic speech.

🌸

reddit.com
u/CeleryCareful7065 — 13 days ago
▲ 0 r/zen

Joshu 6 - Green

>At Nan-ch’uan’s (Nansen’s) temple one day, the monks of both the east and west halls were arguing about a cat.

>Nan-ch’uan came into the room, held up the cat, and said, “If you can say something, I won’t kill it. If you can’t say anything, I'll kill it.”

>No one in the assembly could understand Nan-ch’uan’s mind, so he killed the cat.

>The next evening, the master returned from somewhere and, while they were exchanging greetings, Nan-ch’uan told him what happened and said, “What would you have done to save the cat?”

>The master took off one of his sandals, put it on his head, and left.

>Nan-ch’uan said, “If you had been there, the cat would have been saved.”

Famous case!

Two sides of the temple were arguing over a cat. They don't tell you what they're arguing about.

Nansen snagged the cat and said, if you can show me your mind, I won't kill it. If you waffle, I'll kill the cat.

Nansen "killed the cat."

Nansen tells Joshu his B.S. story and asks Joshu what he would have done.

Joshu makes the usual, unusual by putting his sandals on his head. He flips the script, so to speak. Josh would have flipped Nansen if he were there.

Nansen says he would have saved the cat.

u/WheresNorthFromHere7 — 13 days ago