u/Relative-Relief-8816

I've been thinking about something that probably applies to a lot of women in swinging, especially women who need a lot of clitoral stimulation and don't get much pleasure from penetration.

We tend to talk about this as though it's mostly a technique problem.

>"Tell him what you like."

>"Use your hands."

>"Add a toy."

>"Communicate better."

All true.

We also see a lot of people asking: "why are all the women bi?"

But I think there's another piece that gets overlooked: the sexual incentives of MF and FF encounters are fundamentally different.

For most men, penetration isn't merely something they're doing for you. It's one of the primary things they personally want from sex. Penetration directly stimulates them.

That creates a very natural overlap when the woman also loves penetration. He wants to penetrate her. She wants to be penetrated. Everybody wins.

If you're a woman who mostly gets pleasure from clitoral stimulation, though, that overlap gets smaller.

Maybe penetration is pleasant but doesn't do much for you. Maybe you tolerate it because your partner enjoys it. Maybe you'd genuinely rather spend most of the encounter kissing, grinding, receiving oral, giving oral, using hands, playing with toys, etc.

There's nothing wrong with that.

But it means an MF swap can contain a built-in mismatch.

The guy can absolutely love eating you out and making you orgasm with his hands. Plenty of men do. But at some point, he's also probably going to want the activity that directly stimulates him: penetration.

Now compare that with FF play.

Another woman can spend an enormous amount of time doing the things that actually work for you without sacrificing the primary way her own genitals get stimulated. There isn't a penis in the equation creating a competing desire to transition toward penetration.

Yes, women can enjoy fingering someone or using a strap-on. But that's not physiologically equivalent to a man penetrating someone with his penis.

A man can literally remove the partner from the equation, replace her with a Fleshlight, and still enjoy penetration because the act itself directly stimulates him.

A woman isn't generally putting on a strap-on alone in her bedroom and thrusting into a Fleshlight because penetrating the Fleshlight is physically stimulating her nonexistent penis.

When a woman enjoys penetrating another woman, much of the reward is usually elsewhere: her partner's reaction, giving pleasure, dominance, intimacy, visual arousal, the psychological experience of being the active partner, etc.

That's an obvious, but not commonly talked-about asymmetry.

And I think it explains something I've noticed in swinging.

Some bisexual women who aren't especially penetration-driven seem to naturally gravitate much harder toward FF play. That doesn't necessarily mean they're secretly lesbians, that their husbands suck in bed, or that they're "doing swinging wrong."

FF sex may simply line up better with the things their bodies actually reward.

Meanwhile, women who genuinely love penetration probably have a huge structural advantage in conventional full-swap swinging. A relatively inexperienced male partner can provide something they intrinsically enjoy without needing to perfectly reproduce a highly specific stimulation pattern.

Obviously there are massive individual differences here. Some women love penetration but still need clitoral stimulation to orgasm. Some don't care whether they orgasm with every new partner. Some women are phenomenal at communicating exactly what they need. Some men are extremely patient and attentive. Some women aren't interested in women at all.

I'm not trying to sort every woman into a neat box.

I'm saying that if you're a bisexual woman in the lifestyle thinking:

"Why does swapping with men seem kind of mediocre, while playing with women feels effortless?"

or:

"Why do I need so much more specific attention than everyone else seems to?"

you might not be bad at swinging.

Your sexual reward system may simply have less overlap with what a typical male swap partner is there to do, and substantially more overlap with FF sex.

That seems like useful information to know about yourself instead of repeatedly trying to force yourself into the version of swinging everyone else appears to be doing.

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Edit:

I think people are reading the FF comparison as an endorsement of bisexuality or as me saying women should prefer sex with women. It isn’t.

The point is not “women don’t like penetration.” The point is that men are much more likely to treat penetration as a central requirement of sex, while women vary much more in how important penetration is to them. That difference matters before anyone gets naked.

A woman might love penetration and consider a good hard fucking a major part of what she wants from a swap. Another woman might enjoy it but not care much about it. Another might actively prefer sex centered around slow, gentle clitoral stimulation and barely care about penetration at all.

Those are very different sexual partners. And men need to be just as honest. If what you really want is penetration, and you don’t particularly enjoy spending a long time doing extremely soft, precise clitoral stimulation, say that. Don’t claim you’re “into anything” and then discover halfway through sex that the kind of sex she wants is work you don’t enjoy.

The reverse matters too. Imagine a woman who specifically wants Dick-with-a-capital-D penetration finding out only once the swap starts that her partner has a one-inch penis. Could they still have enjoyable sex? Sure. He has fingers, a mouth, toys, and plenty of other options. But if substantial penetrative sex was an important part of what she wanted, she would probably wish she had known that before agreeing to the swap. That isn’t about shaming his body. It is about disclosing a sexual variable that could materially affect compatibility.

The same principle applies when a woman doesn’t particularly want penetration, needs unusually gentle stimulation, dislikes oral, loves oral, needs toys, wants rough sex, hates rough sex, or anything else that significantly changes what sex with her looks like.

“Communicate” is not enough.

Know what you want. Know what you actually enjoy giving. Tell people the important parts before sex. Keep communicating during sex. Talk afterward if you want to do it again.

The goal isn’t to make everyone compatible. It’s to find out who already has enough overlap that neither person has to discover a major mismatch halfway through the encounter.

TL;DR

The broader point is just: stop treating major sexual preferences like information people are supposed to discover during sex. Talk about them before committing to a swap and stop setting yourself up to be with incompatible partners.

This stuff doesn't get talked about. Hell. A lot of people aren't even aware these sexual pleasure differences exist across the female population.

I think a lot of promising swinger connections die for a very boring reason: people mistake silence for rejection. And then they sabotage themselves.

^(There is a TLDR at the bottom.)

This applies with new connections, or couples you have already met.

A few days go by. Then a couple of weeks. Nobody has said anything.

Eventually somebody gets uncomfortable and sends the low-key worst thing you can say:

> “Are you guys still interested?”

It sounds harmless. It even sounds considerate. But I think it’s one of the least useful questions you can ask. And it is the most common question I see that results in instantly killing a connection.

Not because there is anything wrong with wanting reassurance, but because it turns a perfectly normal lull into a decision point. Now the other couple has to evaluate how they feel about you, right now, and give you a yes-or-no answer. That's very high pressure, and you didn't even realize it.

And sometimes the truthful answer is simply:

> “Not right now.”

That doesn’t mean they don’t like you, aren’t attracted to you, or wouldn’t happily see you again three weeks from now. It may just mean work is insane, the kids are sick, somebody is traveling, the house is falling apart, or swinging hasn’t crossed their mind lately.

Life has a way of filling every available space.

So instead of asking for reassurance, give people an opportunity.

> “We’re free the 14th and 21st. Want to do something?”

> “We’re getting a hotel next month and thought of you guys.”

> “Hey strangers. It’s been forever. Want to grab dinner?”

Those messages carry almost no pressure. They don’t ask, “Do you still like us?” They say, “We still like you. Here’s an opportunity if you’re interested too.”

That is a much easier message to receive.

And if they’re busy? Nothing has been damaged. Try again later.

Three months can pass. Six months can pass. A year can pass.

So what?

If you’re suddenly planning a night out and you remember a couple you had a fantastic time with, send them a message. There is no expiration date on a good connection just because nobody maintained a continuous text conversation.

In fact, I think this becomes easier to understand once you appreciate how long actual friendship takes to develop.

Jeffrey Hall’s research on friendship formation estimated roughly 40–60 hours together before people tend to reach casual-friend territory, around 80–100 hours to become friends, and more than 200 hours for close friendship.

Now translate that into swinger time.

You meet another couple for drinks for three hours. A month later you spend six hours together. You laugh, have great chemistry, maybe have fantastic sex, and leave excited to do it again.

That feels significant. But in terms of actual shared history, you’ve known each other for nine hours.

You’re not lifelong friends yet.

You’re a very promising connection. Maybe even a really promising booty call.

And there is nothing wrong with that.

The mistake is expecting a nine-hour relationship to behave like a friendship that has accumulated hundreds or thousands of hours together. You don’t need to artificially maintain that relationship through constant texting while waiting for the real bond to develop.

You need more real experiences together.

That’s also why I think texting is most useful when it has a purpose. Build some anticipation before a date. Tell people you had a great time afterward. Share something genuinely funny or interesting. Talk about a hobby you actually have in common. Make plans. Send dates. Send invitations.

But you don’t have to keep producing conversation simply because the conversation stopped.

Silence is allowed.

You can exchange “good morning” and “how was work?” messages every day for three months and still barely know somebody. Or you can disappear into your respective lives for two months, spend six genuinely memorable hours together, and leave much closer than you were before.

Actual shared experiences are what give later communication weight.

That’s why a sexy picture from somebody you genuinely know hits differently than the same picture from a stranger. The picture didn’t change. The relationship behind it did.

History, trust, affection, inside jokes, shared experiences. Those things accumulate slowly.

You can’t manufacture them by texting harder.

So if the goal is a long-term connection, I think it helps to redefine what “long-term” means.

Long-term doesn’t necessarily mean continuous communication. It can mean continuity despite gaps in communication.

Maybe you see each other six times this year. Maybe twice. Maybe life gets ridiculous and an entire year disappears.

Then one day somebody sends:

> “Hey strangers. Hotel on the 17th?”

And the response is:

> “Absolutely. We’ve missed you guys.”

That isn’t a failed connection. That may actually be a very healthy one.

Nobody kept score. Nobody interpreted silence as rejection. Nobody needed periodic confirmation that everybody still liked everybody. The connection was allowed to sit there until somebody had the time and desire to pick it back up.

If you really need to check the temperature after a long absence, even:

> “Are you guys still swinging?”

is better than:

> “Are you still interested in us?”

The first asks about their life. The second asks them to evaluate you.

But most of the time, you don’t need either question.

Just send the invitation.

Give people something concrete to respond to.

And then, if everybody keeps saying yes over the years, something interesting happens. Those six-hour nights start accumulating. Nine hours becomes 30. Thirty becomes 80.

Eventually you stop being the hot couple somebody knows from an app.

You become friends who also happen to have some very unusual hobbies together.

That part just takes time.

TL;DR

Even if you don't want to form long term connections, this is just a simple tip to stop sabotaging your new ones too.

1. Remove the phrase "Are you still interested" from your vocabulary.

2. Embrace the lulls and in-between time. Don't wonder if people still like you. Unless they told you otherwise, they probably still do.