u/Romantics10

All of this fear mongering that human civilization is about to go extinct is useless.

We only have to endure for two more generations and let the population pyramid correct itself. Once that happens, utopia is coming. There will be less people and too many resources for them.

People won't even have to work. Robots will do farming and food will be extremely cheap or even be distributed for free. And minimum basic income will be given to buy basic necessities.

Most of the labour intensive jobs will go extinct. Only innovative and creative jobs will exist.
Developing new tech, building more automation, providing entertainment, etc. People will passionately do these jobs as there won't be any a need to do anything just for survival.

So let's embrace this short term pain for the next 100 years or so. And then there will be utopia but for a much smaller population than now. No global warming, no pollution, no threat of climate change, no poverty. Just massive abundance and eternal bliss.

The government can only do so much to promote natalism. In the end, they will have to please the vote banks and make policies in their favour to stay in power no matter what.

As the population keeps aging, the vote bank will keep on shifting towards older retirees who will vote for their pensions and healthcare at the cost of taxing the working population heavily. This will result in the suffering of natalists and then their children too will suffer in the future.

Many people here are defending the welfare state when it's better if it gets abolished and people take care of their medical and retirement needs privately.

Another thing which can be implemented is that once a person goes beyond a certain age, say 80 years, the weightage that his/her vote carries should be reduced to half.
We can't give equal voting rights to people who will be dying in like 10 years and the people who are likely to live for 70 more years from now on. The former will always be short-sighted and selfish. So we need to do amendments in the constitution.

Now, this is against democracy, but a compromise needs to be made somewhere. Just like we don't allow people below 18 to vote, we should not allow someone above a certain age to vote as well or at least reduce the weightage that their vote carries.

Whatever reasons the people on this sub give for being a Natalist seems very less appealing.

1.) If humans were an endangered species, it would have made perfect sense to have children in order to save the human civilization as a whole. But we're not endangered. Today, we have the highest number of human beings that we have ever had on the planet.

But the white race is endangered ? (European context)
This would have been a concern if there was no evolution. But the fact that even black and brown people can evolve into white if they constantly live in cold whether for many generations makes this argument very less appealing to have children.

I will rather be more worried about global warming and climate change being a white European myself. As the temperature of the entire earth rises, people will naturally evolve to have a darker skin colour generation after generation and it will lead to the extinction of the white race. (If we even call it a separate race which it scientifically is not)

2.) Who will speak my language ?

Languages were invented to communicate with each other. I won't mind if the entire world only speaks English. I will rather be happy that there is no communication barrier between the people of the entire world as they all speak one language only.

So this argument seems even less appealing than the previous.

3.) How will my values propagate ?

Monks are able to propagate their values without having their own children. People naturally follow good values by themselves. If you need your children to propagate your value then your values are not worth propagating in the first place. And there is no guarantee that you children will follow them either.

4.) Many people here go as far as to suggest abolishing the rights of woman and banning birth control in order to get the births rates up.

If a civilization doesn't value the freedom and liberty of it's people then is it even worth saving from a collapse ?

5.) Who will support social security and take care of the old ?

This might be the only appealing argument but this too won't make much of a difference. Most young people are hardly able to make the ends meet today. So thinking about what will happen when they are old is a luxury in itself.

And lastly, an honourable mention of the few people who were giving the suggestion of importing young fertile women to their country to prevent a population collapse, as if any country will allow it. You are free to yourself travel to another country and find a woman to marry you and then bring her to your native country (and hope that she wouldn't bring her family with her and then divorce you). Why do want the government to do that for you ? And what's the guarantee that the imported women won't want to be childfree after integrating into western culture ? This suggestion is degrading women to merely baby incubators and even is demeaning to the native women.
This sub can't go any lower.