u/SaitamaBarber

It’s not what you want, it’s who miles is as a person (character)

It’s not what you want, it’s who miles is as a person (character)

I’ve seen a lot of opinions about how Miles will react to Gwen. Some people think their relationship should remain fractured. There can still be forgiveness, but the story has to acknowledge the choice Gwen made and the consequences of it.
Others think Miles won’t talk to Gwen at all, or that he’ll give her the cold shoulder for most of the movie.
But I think some people are forgetting who Miles is as a person — not just who he is as Spider-Man.
With almost any other protagonist, I could see the “cold shoulder until Gwen earns his trust back” approach being great mature writing.

But Miles has repeatedly shown that when someone he loves hurts him, his first instinct isn’t necessarily to condemn them. It’s often to understand them — and sometimes even blame himself.

Look at Aaron.

Before Gwen, Aaron was one of the people Miles felt most comfortable around. He could be his authentic self with his uncle without worrying about expectations, responsibilities, or having to become somebody else.

And then Miles discovered that Aaron was the Prowler.

Remember what Miles actually witnessed. He saw the Prowler fighting Spider-Man and being prepared to kill him. Then the Prowler was stopped by Kingpin, turned around, and tried to kill Miles himself.
Later, we learn that Aaron knew the person he was hunting was a kid and was still willing to kill him because Kingpin wanted it.
Whatever other things Aaron may have done as the Prowler, that should have been enough to make him an unforgivable monster from Miles’ perspective.
But what does Miles do when Aaron is dying?
He doesn’t ask, “Why did you do this?”
He says:
“This is my fault.”
Miles is more consumed by his own perceived failure than by condemning Aaron for what he did.
You could argue that’s simply the trauma of the moment, but Across the Spider-Verse gives us more evidence that this wasn’t just temporary. Miles still misses his uncle. He acknowledges that Aaron was the Prowler, but he doesn’t reduce him to the things he did.
And by the end of Across, when Miles meets Earth-42 Aaron, he tells him that he knew his uncle wanted to be good — he just thought he didn’t have a choice. (Kinda like Gwen right?)

That’s an incredibly important detail about Miles.
Miles naturally looks for the person underneath the mistake. That’s also why Peter B. Parker could recognize almost immediately that Miles was different. Peter didn’t want Miles to become Spider-Man because he understood what being Spider-Man costs. He wasn’t trying to belittle Miles. He was essentially trying to save him:
“Go back to being a regular kid.”

Miles’ first instinct isn’t revenge.
He doesn’t even respond to Uncle Aaron’s death by deciding he needs to kill Kingpin. He wants to stop him and bring him to justice.
And considering everything Miles goes through, I wouldn’t be surprised if some part of him still wondered whether he could have reached Aaron sooner, or whether he could have done something differently.

So when people say, “There’s no way Miles could possibly forgive Gwen,” I think they’re underestimating how radically empathetic this kid actually is.
That doesn’t mean Miles should instantly forgive her.
It doesn’t mean Gwen shouldn’t have to confront what she did.
And it definitely doesn’t mean Miles shouldn’t be angry, hurt, or disappointed.
He should be.
But there’s a difference between “Miles is deeply hurt by Gwen” and “Miles becomes emotionally incapable of listening to Gwen.”
The latter doesn’t really fit the character we’ve spent two movies watching.
Miles has repeatedly shown that when someone he loves does something terrible, he doesn’t immediately ask whether they’re worthy of forgiveness.
He asks why.
Why did Aaron become the Prowler?
Why did Gwen keep this from him?
Why did Miguel believe Miles had to lose his father?
Why does everyone keep telling him that he has no choice?
That’s one of the defining characteristics of Miles: he sees the person before he sees the label.
So I think the most Miles-like resolution isn’t him immediately saying, “It’s okay, Gwen.”
It’s Miles listening.
Let Gwen explain herself.
Let him be angry.
Let him tell her exactly how badly she hurt him.
Let Gwen take responsibility without making excuses.
And then let Miles make his own decision about what their relationship becomes.
Because that’s actually consistent with the larger theme of his character.
Everyone keeps telling Miles what he has to do.
Miguel tells him he has to accept canon.
The Spider Society tells him he has to let his father die.
The Spot becomes obsessed with a future he believes has to happen.
Miles’ entire journey is about refusing to let inevitability make his choices for him.
So I don’t think Miles forgiving Gwen would undermine his character.
If anything, choosing whether to forgive her for himself — rather than because the story says he has to — would be one of the most Miles Morales things he could possibly do.
Forgiveness doesn’t erase consequences.
Understanding someone doesn’t excuse what they did.
And loving someone doesn’t mean pretending they didn’t hurt you.
Miles can hold all three truths at once.
That’s what makes him Miles.

u/SaitamaBarber — 1 day ago

I know Miles and Gwen is discussed every other week in this sub, but it’s really an interesting phenomenon that I want to give my thoughts on.

Note: This is gonna be long please read everything before sharing your opinion in the comments.

I wanna list all reasons ive interpreted that people disliked this couple and what I think some are valid and just unfair.

I have seen some valid reasons but most is just:
Interracial discomfort especially underlying biases against a black man and white woman as a popular fictional dynamic, interestingly this is mainly from black audiences as well. I’ve seen a lot of them masked their bigotry with media literacy terms like “it’s bad writing” because they can’t just say they dislike seeing this racial dynamic, it hurts them even more so considering how popular the dynamic has and will become, I see people even referencing miles and Gwen whenever they see a blonde girl and black guy couple on social media.

Traditionalist Gatekeeping ("Comic Accuracy")
I don’t know is my perspective matters here as I’m not the biggest Spider-Man super fan, but some people thinks that miles should have his own lover interest, because Gwen is Peter Parker love interest and it feels wrong or forced. But I think they fail to realize that spider Gwen is a completely different character than love interest counterpart to Peter.

Fandom "Shipping" Culture
Fandoms are notoriously aggressive regarding "ships" (romantic pairings). The most famous besides this being miles and Margo.

Overreaction to Plot Conflict
In Across the Spider-Verse, Gwen keeps secrets from Miles as she was battling with multiple internal struggles.
A segment of the audience viewed this complex, tragic choice as a personal betrayal, labeling Gwen as "toxic" or "a bad friend". They lack the nuance to see that her flaws and mistakes are what make the narrative arc compelling and realistic.

Other than these main ones, other say they:

Just don’t like miles chasing after Gwen and visa versa. Whether they think it makes miles a weaker character, or it takes away from both of their individuality and complexity.

Some say not every female and male character that has a connection means it has to be romantic.

I saw a person say they have the opportunity to write a mature dynamic about forgiveness without making them get back together.

Now out of all of these, i can understand fearing for their individuality and complexity being jeopardize and to some extent some fans not liking miles chasing after Gwen as it weakens his character ( i understand how from their perspective they see this) even though i would say you don’t under miles character.

I will list my reasons on why i love this dynamic now, i don’t intent to change anyone opinion on this pairing, I know that when people have a biased they reject strong narrative logic because of deep-seated prejudices that trigger confirmation bias and identity protective cognition.

We already know the entire writer room is dead set on miles and Gwen, I mean if you don’t believe look at the video of stranger things star Caleb in Sony pictures animation studios, they have miles and Gwen in their wall.

Anyways here is my interpretation on miles and Gwen dynamic:

I think Miles and Gwen ending up together makes sense for reasons that go way beyond “they’re the canon ship.”

1. Their relationship is central to both characters’ arcs. Gwen’s entire story revolves around learning that connection is not the same thing as vulnerability leading to loss. Miles is the person who repeatedly forces her to confront that fear.

2. Miles and Gwen are thematic opposites who complete the same argument. Miles fears being excluded; Gwen fears becoming attached. He learns that he belongs without having to conform, while she learns that she can belong without hiding. Their relationship is the intersection of those two arcs.

3. Gwen’s mistakes are actually part of why their relationship matters. Her secrecy, distance, and attempts to “protect” Miles are repetitions of her trauma. If the story simply has Miles forgive her but permanently reject her romantically, Gwen’s arc risks becoming “I learned my lesson, but I still don’t get to reconnect.” A stronger resolution is showing that she can finally build the kind of relationship she previously couldn’t sustain with her Peter.

4. Gwen doesn’t need to lose her individuality to love Miles. Her ending with Miles doesn’t have to mean becoming “Miles’ girlfriend.” She has her own identity, trauma, relationships, ambitions and Spider-personhood. In fact, the healthiest version of their relationship would require both of them to remain fully themselves.

5. Their romance is ultimately part of Spider-Verse’s larger argument about choice. Canon, Miguel and the Spot all represent different attempts to make the future inevitable. Miles and Gwen represent something different: two people choosing each other despite everything that told them connection would end in pain.

So I understand why some people don’t want Gwen with Miles after ATSV, and I don’t think forgiveness automatically means romance. But narratively, there is a huge difference between “Miles forgives Gwen” and “Miles and Gwen rebuild their relationship on completely different terms.”
The latter is much more consistent with what the trilogy has been building toward.

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u/SaitamaBarber — 3 days ago

I’m glad Gen Z and Gen Alpha are changing this dumb viewpoint on animation, thanks to anime and the rise of adult animations.

Gen Z and Gen Alpha are leading a massive cultural shift by viewing animation as a legitimate cinematic medium for all ages, rather than just a genre for children like pass generation, millennials for example. We have to thank mainly anime for that and also social media.

I was rewatching these films the other day and I had a thought, the entire identity of these films is “animation” it lives and breathes authentically its medium. It’s almost like the animation is part of its storytelling in a way.

Look at Gwen’s world, the water color is like her inner world expressing itself visually when she can’t do it verbally.

Miguel world looks cold and sterile like a machine build for efficiency and control.

Miles world look like a world that’s still becoming, like a sketch that’s still deciding what it wants to be which matches Miles identity as someone that doesn’t want his future to be fixed.

Even Miguel's design features faint, persistent construction lines on his face. This visual choice reveals a psyche frozen in a state of perpetual drafting. He is a man who views his own identity and reality as an unfinished sketch requiring constant structural maintenance to stave off total collapse.

You can’t do this in line action.

It’s not that these films can’t be done in live action, even if someone pulled it off, it will lose its soul. Because the filmmakers adapted the visual storytelling, characters and story to the medium it exists in.

This is one of those film where “I wish it was live action” idea becomes illogical because it just wouldn’t work identically.

Some people just lack the ability to connect to animated characters and others believe that live action is more limited and demands more creative skill than animation to make a great film, so they conclude that if it’s not a real film unless it’s live action.

But here is a thought, these movies wouldn’t exist if we only focus on and embrace live action as the only medium for true filmmaking, because their entire identity is tied to a living breathing comic book.

It’s kinda ironic too because in a way people that hate the films cause it’s animated is kinda like Miguel hating miles because he doesn’t fit in the archetype of Spider-Man perfectly. So he will never be truly accepted. But he accepts himself.

u/SaitamaBarber — 4 days ago

I’m curious to see the internet reaction to mikes casting after the silly controversy with the new black panther.

Overall most people like the new casting choice for black panther, but I’m seen a few people say he’s too feminine and short which is very disrespectful but aye that’s the internet, but then I remember Miles isn’t even casted yet and I remember a few months ago when people was making ai images of Caleb from stranger things their was a lot of black lash but very different from the black panther casting, we had Latino community vs the black community going at it for who should play miles, with some saying miles is black and should be played by a black person and the Latino community said their shouldn’t neglect his Latino side. Me personally I think the whole thing is silly and is more worried about who’s the writer and director and what state of the MCU is miles gonna miles is gonna make his debut. I also think miles need to have his own origin and not come from another universe or all that nonsense, miles works as a successor better not an alternate version of Spider-Man.

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u/SaitamaBarber — 22 days ago

I think Peter is gonna show us why he’s the most experienced and skilled Spider-Man out of the gang and even the society tbh, he will make Miguel eat his words “I have the right amount you” cause Peter is old man spider-man, he was nerfed in the first film due to glitching and literally just not caring what happens to him, because he was just tired, depressed and broken down due to enduring years and years of grief, lost and doing the same thing every day.

When Peter was trying we see him easily handle prowler and kingpin, protecting miles and he even showcased his experience by anticipating miles route and webbing him when he was being chased in Miguel dimension, Peter could’ve catch miles but that wasn’t his goal, he just wanted to talk.

I saw a post about some executives recently screened five minutes of the film and was already blow away by the level of animation, emotions and they belief that they might nail the perfect ending to the trilogy, obviously it’s just 5 minutes of footage but that getting them excited is awesome to hear.

u/SaitamaBarber — 4 months ago