Do Marxists and capitalists have more in common on industrialisation than either does with degrowth?

Something I've found a bit odd about parts of the modern left is how much hostility there seems to be towards industrialisation, economic growth and increasing consumption.

Obviously Marx was highly critical of capitalism, but he also saw it as an enormous advance over feudalism. He praised the productive forces capitalism had unleashed, and socialism was supposed to build on those achievements rather than reject them.

And I'd have thought this is something Marxists and pro-capitalist liberals should broadly agree on. The industrial revolution and subsequent increases in productivity have been hugely beneficial to humanity, even if we disagree about ownership and distribution.

So I find it strange seeing leftists talk about industrialisation itself as some great mistake, or treating reductions in production and consumption as desirable goals.

I'm aware not all ecosocialists are degrowth advocates, and obviously environmental damage is a real problem. But surely the goal should be making production cleaner and more efficient while continuing to improve material living standards?

Curious whether Marxists here see degrowth and anti-industrial environmentalism as compatible with their understanding of socialism, and whether capitalists think there's some common ground here

reddit.com
u/Sama5aurus — 4 days ago

What do people here make of the left-wing arguments over new permitting bill?

For anyone who hasn't been following it, BAAJA is the new bipartisan Senate permitting deal. Broadly, it speeds up environmental review and legal challenges, makes permits harder to revoke, and includes major transmission/grid reforms.

Seems very relevant to the abundance argument: making it easier to build transmission and clean energy also means making it easier to build pipelines, mines and other stuff the left may not want.

I imagine support here will probably be pretty one-sided, but I'm interested in the arguments against it too. Curious whether people see BAAJA as a good example of the “groups” problem, or a case where that critique is too simplistic.

Also didn’t fully understand this part, but it seems like the bill is almost trying to use government power to force utilities to modernise when their profit incentives push them toward the status quo

.https://punchbowl.news/article/energy/utilities-lose-power-permitting-bill/?\_gl=1\*a5h9qe\*\_up\*MQ..\*\_ga\*MTQ5MzI4NjkyMy4xNzkxMTcwNTQ4\*\_ga\_PZYDHRSVTB\*czE3OTExNzA1NDgkbzEkZzEkdDE3OTExNzA1ODMkajI1JGwwJGg0NDk0OTg2MCRkMjUyUlYyMElnRnFmeXdCQ00wbTlkNkdpUnRHbzd5RExpZw..

u/Sama5aurus — 10 days ago