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u/Smooth_Earth_2948

▲ 9 r/researchchemicals

Update] Huge win for the community: Price drop on NB-DMT and a call to armchair chemists for 5F-MET Freebase!

Hey everyone,

Crazy story from this weekend. I sent a long, detailed email to one of the biggest European RC shops. I wanted to bring up two major issues we often discuss here: the overpriced NB-DMT blends relative to their actual efficiency, and the bioavailability issue with 5F-MET sold as a fumarate salt (which is a pain to vape).

To my absolute surprise... The owner replied to me personally, and their lab literally spent the weekend working on our feedback! Here are the updates, and we need your input for the next steps. 👍

I explained to them that NB-DMT is much less "efficient" per milligram than classic N,N-DMT due to the protecting group (Boc), and that their current pricing just didn't make sense. The owner totally agreed with the criticism. Result: he talked with the lab, and they just dropped the price by 12% across the site while waiting to produce a larger batch that will be even cheaper ! Boom.

For the 5F-MET, we need your ideas! Following my email about 5F-MET fumarate (not suitable for vaping), the lab spent the weekend synthesizing a batch of 5F-MET in Freebase form. The good news: the purity is excellent. The bad news: the molecule in its freebase form doesn't crystallize well. It is stable, but it turns into an extremely viscous liquid (like a thick oil or paste), which makes it a nightmare to handle for us in standard baggies.

The shop owner literally asked me: "How would the community prefer us to produce/package this so it's as user-friendly as possible?"

They are thinking about making disposable/pre-filled vapes, or selling it in a diluted form. But I figured I'd ask you guys to gather the best ideas from the sub and send them back 😏

How would you prefer to buy and handle a highly viscous freebase tryptamine?

In a dropper bottle, pre-dissolved in PG ready for DIY e-liquid?

As "Enhanced Leaf" (infused onto neutral herbs, ready to be smoked or vaped in a dry herb vaporizer) ?

In small silicone/glass jars like BHO/Dab wax, to be used with a dab rig?

Any other brilliant ideas?

Drop your best suggestions in the comments, I'll make a summary for the shop in a few days !

(PS: Please don't ask me for the name of the shop in PMs, let's respect the sub's strict no-sourcing rules so this post doesn't get taken down). ✌️

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u/Smooth_Earth_2948 — 3 days ago
▲ 28 r/researchchemicals

ODPV Early Reports / Experiences Thread: Is it actually inactive? (+ A rant about the tragic state of 2026 stimbros)

Hey everyone,

I wanted to create this thread with the idea of gathering all the first early reports and experiences for ODPV as people start receiving and trying it out.

So far, the only feedback I've seen is one guy claiming he tried 250mg and it was completely inactive. I’m really hoping his dopamine receptors are just permanently fried or he got a bunk pre-release batch. Because if this molecule actually turns out to be a total dud...

Man, it’s honestly tragic being a stimbro right now with this probably inactive ODPV bullshit... Dudes are racking up 250mg lines of literal bioisosteric flour. I swear, everyone was so hyped, hoping we could finally stop playing guinea pigs for exhumed Cold War patents. But nope, back to the pharmacological graveyard we go.

Like, without ODPV, the menus on these shops just look like a sketchy Eastern Bloc garage sale.

First off, you’ve got Thozalinone and its new cousin, 3FTL. Bro, Thozalinone is a patent from 1965! The shit is so unbelievably boring the Stasi wouldn't even use it to torture prisoners. 🤣

You drop it, get absolutely zero euphoria, and just end up with the jittery, robotic energy of an East German accountant filing paperwork in alphabetical order. And now they’re pushing 3FTL like it’s some revolutionary upgrade... Spoiler alert: it’s the exact same depressing desk-job energy, they just slapped a fluorine atom on it so you can pretend it’s futuristic.

Then you’ve got the absolute pinnacle of garbage: the Dimethocaine family and its endless derivatives—DMC, DMP, DM-DED, dpDMC, you name it. Vendors are literally out here pushing failed local anesthetics as "legal snow". And what happens? A stimbro rails a massive 200mg slug, his heart instantly sprints to 180 BPM in pure demonic tachycardia, his blood pressure goes through the roof, but his brain? Completely, desperately sober. The only thing you actually feel is your face getting so numb you’re drooling all over your shirt, stuttering, fully convinced you’re having a stroke. The "rush" isn’t dopamine, it’s literally just the sheer panic of impending doom. Congrats, you just paid 40 bucks to freeze your gums like a trip to the dentist.

And don't even get me started on Meprylcaine miraculously reappearing on catalogs right now. Like, seriously?! It’s a dental anesthetic from 1956! I swear these clandestine chemists literally dumpster-dived behind some abandoned Soviet-era dentist's office and thought, "Yeah, let's put this in a holographic ziploc bag, some desperate stimbro on Reddit is definitely gonna try to vape this off a piece of tin foil." We are reaching levels of pharmacological necromancy that shouldn't even be possible. 😂

So what does the hopeless, dopamine-starved stimbro do? He resorts to bottom-of-the-barrel basement alchemy: the legendary PPAP + NMC combo.

First, you take PPAP, some chemical cooked up by József Knoll, a Hungarian pharmacologist back when Eastern Europe was trying to fuel their researchers on nothing but goulash. Dude, "PPAP" sounds like a spare part for a broken Lada tractor. It doesn’t even release dopamine! It just "amplifies existing nerve impulses". So if you're a depressed dude crashing hard on your couch, it’s just gonna amplify your desire to stare at the ceiling by 200%.

Then, they mix this Hungarian tractor part with NMC (N-Methyl-Cyclazodone), a 60s stimulant mostly famous for dissolving your liver faster than industrial drain cleaner. They just combine the two, praying to spark a single, pathetic crumb of dopamine, hoping to god their liver doesn't file for bankruptcy before midnight.

RIP the golden age of caths and amph, man... Welcome to the era of chewing on expired Cold War patents.

Let me know if any of you guys have actually tried ODPV yet. Is it really dead on arrival?

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u/Smooth_Earth_2948 — 8 days ago
▲ 103 r/researchchemicals

Big Pharma’s new trick: How 4-Fluoro substitutions (4F-DMT & 4F-5-MeO-DMT) are being used to strip the hallucinations out of psychedelics for medical use.

​

Hey guys it's me again !

We talk a lot about classic tryptamines here, but there is a massive shift happening right now in clinical research. Big Pharma and top universities have figured out a chemical "hack" to take classic psychedelics and completely kill the visual/hallucinogenic trip, while keeping the therapeutic and social benefits.

The secret? Slapping a Fluorine (F) atom at the 4-position.

Here is a quick breakdown of how this works and why compounds like 4F-DMT and 4F-5-MeO-DMT are changing the game.

The Science: Why Fluorine kills the trip

In classic tryptamines (like 4-HO-DMT / psilocin), the "HO" (hydroxy) group acts like a perfect key. It forms a hydrogen bond with your 5-HT2A receptors, which is what triggers intense visuals and the classic psychedelic headspace.

However, Fluorine is physically incapable of forming that same hydrogen bond. So, by replacing the "HO" with an "F" at the 4-position, the molecule basically misses the 5-HT2A receptor. It neuters the visual magic. But instead of doing nothing, the molecule shifts its focus to other, very specific receptors.

  1. 4F-DMT : Mild empathogen

When you put a Fluorine on classic DMT, it loses its ability to blast you into hyperspace. Instead, it heavily targets the 5-HT2C receptors.

The Effects: It completely shifts from a visual psychedelic into a short-acting, mild empathogen/entactogen.

Users describe it as a "social enhancer". You get practically zero headspace and no geometric patterns, just pure chatty energy, empathy, and good vibes. It’s essentially a mild "diet MDMA" perfect for hanging out with friends, without the nasty comedown or jaw clenching.

  1. 4F-5-MeO-DMT : Antidepressant on steroids

This is where the medical world is putting its money. In May 2024, researchers at Mount Sinai published a massive breakthrough on this exact compound. They took 5-MeO-DMT and added that same Fluorine at the 4-position.

What it does: Just like with 4F-DMT, the Fluorine crushes the 5-HT2A hallucinogenic affinity (a 3-fold decrease).

But the real magic is that it creates a 14-fold increase in binding to the 5-HT1A receptor.

Why it matters: 5-HT1A is the golden receptor for deep, therapeutic antidepressant and anti-anxiety effects.

By creating 4F-5-MeO-DMT, scientists engineered a “non-hallucinogenic psychedelic”. You get all the massive, brain-healing, depression-curing benefits of toad venom, but without actually tripping or losing your mind. All the medicine, zero trip.

Conclusion

We are entering an era where psychedelics are being surgically engineered for specific real-world applications. Whether it's the clinical fast-track of 5F-MET, the social lubrication of 4F-DMT, or the trip-free healing of 4F-5-MeO-DMT, chemistry is wild.

TL;DR: Putting a Fluorine at the 4-position of a tryptamine stops it from binding to the receptor that causes visuals (5-HT2A). This turns 4F-DMT into a mild social empathogen ("diet MDMA"), and turns 4F-5-MeO-DMT into a trip-free, super-potent antidepressant that Big Pharma is heavily researching.

Sources and further reading :

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2024-05-scientists-unravel-psychedelic-drugs-interact.html

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16061378/

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11152992/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0960894X05008735

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsptsci.0c00176

u/Smooth_Earth_2948 — 9 days ago
▲ 39 r/researchchemicals

The truth about 5F-MET: Why your oral/nasal doses feel weak, and why Big Pharma is actually betting billions on it.

Hey guys,

I’ve been seeing a lot of disappointed trip reports about the new 5F-MET hitting the RC scene lately, especially from people trying to take it orally or via nasal drops. I did some deep digging into recent pharmacological studies, and it turns out there’s a massive reason why it feels "weak" to us.

That "lab" testing it with robust IV results isn't some underground operation. 5F-MET is actually a billion-dollar pharmaceutical drug.

Its official scientific name is Bretisilocin (code name GM-2505). It was developed by Gilgamesh Pharmaceuticals—which recently got scooped up by the pharmaceutical giant AbbVie—specifically to treat Major Depressive Disorder. They are literally running Phase 2 clinical trials with it right now.

Here is exactly why the RC community is getting it wrong:

  1. It was explicitly designed for IV only. Big Pharma knows exactly how tryptamines work. They chose intravenous (IV) infusion for their clinical trials because 5F-MET has absolutely garbage oral and nasal bioavailability. Just like base MET or DMT, if you swallow it or drip it down your nose, your stomach/liver enzymes (MAO) will destroy the molecule before it ever reaches your brain. If you're eating this stuff, you are quite literally flushing your stash down the toilet.

  2. The reason behind the 5-Fluoro substitution. They didn't put a Fluorine at the 5-position to give us crazy, colorful visuals. They engineered it that way to tightly control the duration. By making it highly lipophilic (crossing the blood-brain barrier fast) but short-acting, they created a psychedelic that peaks and drops off quickly. The clinical goal is for a depressed patient to walk into a clinic, get an IV, trip balls for therapy, and go home 1 or 2 hours later, without tying up a hospital bed for 6+ hours like they would with psilocybin.

  3. What this means for us. This isn't a bunk or weak chem; it's just a highly specialized clinical tool. Because of the first-pass metabolism, eating it or snorting liquid drops won't work. Unless you plan to IV (which obviously brings huge risks outside a hospital), your only real options to get those "robust" effects are probably boofing it, or vaping it if you can get it in freebase form.

TL;DR: 5F-MET is a legit Big Pharma drug called Bretisilocin made for quick, intense IV therapy sessions. Your stomach enzymes will destroy it if you eat it or do nasal drops. Don't waste your money eating it—boof it or vape it (if freebase) if you actually want to feel it.

https://news.abbvie.com/2025-08-25-AbbVie-to-Acquire-Gilgamesh-Pharmaceuticals-Bretisilocin,-a-Novel,-Investigational-Therapy-for-Major-Depressive-Disorder,-Expanding-Psychiatry-Pipeline

https://www.hra.nhs.uk/planning-and-improving-research/application-summaries/research-summaries/a-phase-2a-study-of-two-repeated-doses-of-gm-2505-at-a-2-week-interval-in-patients-with-mdd/

https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/news/gilgamesh-psychedelic-high-remission-depression/

u/Smooth_Earth_2948 — 9 days ago
▲ 1 r/researchchemicals

Accute toxicity of Pemoline and Cyclazodone analogs

I don't understand why no one warns about their toxicity and I see everyone advising to try N-methyl-cyclazodone at anyone asking for a stimulant.

Did anyone have issues or severe side effects ?

This is what you can find with just a little research :

"These three substances belong to the same chemical family, the oxazolidinones, which are notorious for their toxicity. Here is how they compare:

-Pemoline: This is the reference substance. Once prescribed for ADHD, it was permanently withdrawn from the global market (notably by the FDA in 2005) because it caused acute liver failure, often requiring liver transplants or resulting in death.

-NMC (N-Methyl-Cyclazodone): This modern derivative of cyclazodone is extremely toxic. Recent clinical reports (notably published in 2022 in the American Journal of Gastroenterology) have directly linked the use of NMC bought online to sudden and severe cases of acute liver failure.

-Cyclazodone: When it was patented in the 1960s, studies conducted on mice claimed it offered a better safety margin and was less hepatotoxic than pemoline. However, because it shares the exact same fundamental chemical structure as pemoline and NMC, the medical community today considers it to pose a major theoretical and practical risk of liver destruction in humans. It has never been approved as a medication.

In summary: Do not rely on old rodent studies from the 1960s. Since cyclazodone shares the same core structure as pemoline and NMC, it must be considered potentially just as dangerous.

 The liver toxicity caused by this family of molecules is known as "idiosyncratic." This means it does not always depend on the dose and is completely unpredictable. A person might use one of these substances without any symptoms for months, and then suffer a sudden liver failure within a few days, with absolutely no warning signs."

What does one think about this ?

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u/Smooth_Earth_2948 — 14 days ago
▲ 41 r/researchchemicals

New stimulant which they announce as MDPV analogue

Hello guys, the lab that synthesizes all the new Dimethocaine analogues just announced a new stimulant.

Read this :

"Our latest invention ODPV is a legal MDPV analog with similar effects. It was inspired by the paper 'Bioisosteric analogs of MDMA'. We needed half a year to master the synthesis as 15 routes failed.

The ring structure is completely new in the research chemical market, though it was previously tested in the unrelated pharmaceutical product CX717 during clinical trials, where it was well tolerated.

We tested up to 20mg nasally, which gave a rush similar to MDPHP. Unfortunately, it cannot be vaped.

We need your feedback to plan bulk synthesis. You can ask us for a free sample if you will report your feedback back to us."

Other names: BOD-PVP

The IUPAC of ODPV is  '1-(benzo[c[1,2,5]oxadiazol-5-yl)-2-(pyrrolidin-1-yl)pentan-1-one',

(I have a screenshot of the chemical structure but I don't know how to share it)

Is anyone familiar with SwissTargetPrediction and can interpret the results?

Here is the SMLES :

O=C(c1ccc2nonc2c1)C(CCC)N3CCCC3

Those who have a good pharmacology level, what do you think?

I don't understand how it doesn't fit into the classified substances

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u/Smooth_Earth_2948 — 15 days ago