u/SolidAlloy

The Purpose of Walking Mausoleums and Headless Demigods at the Finger Ruins

The Purpose of Walking Mausoleums and Headless Demigods at the Finger Ruins

Architecture and Time Period

The Walking Mausoleums are giant structures adorned with Nox and early Erdtree Empire motifs, guarded by headless knights associated with Deathbirds. Let's explore some environmental evidence and possible reasons for their existence.

It is widely accepted that the Walking Mausoleums bear a striking resemblance to the architecture of the Nox Eternal Cities. This similarity isn't just about their outward appearance but also the chests found inside.

https://preview.redd.it/1dyf9lh5bfbh1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=0bd243046963d210019c9416a1e4cfd5d13eda27

Nox architecture heavily influenced Marika's early empire and was utilized in her early churches, which we can observe in the Land of Shadow. It is also present in the early empire columns that adorn the roads leading to Leyndell:

https://preview.redd.it/ni3239s7bfbh1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=b3331746df60ed57724caad658267e8ade1cb923

Additionally, the Mausoleums carry statues of the Saint Warrior—a figure that decorates Divine Bridges, Stormveil Castle, cathedrals, and (in its scholar form) some Carian architecture. Two can even be found in Nokstella.

Credit to u/GoriceXI/ for the screenshots

While some argue these statues may predate the Erdtree Empire, they are more likely a symbol of the early Erdtree era. The Divine Bridges were built by an Erdtree-Caria alliance. We can see Erdtree depictions on the bridge towers, along with two versions of the Saint statue. The scholar variant is most common in Liurnia, while the warrior variant is found in Leyndell and Stormveil. In Stormveil, it stands as part of a single ensemble alongside the Erdtree legionnaire statue and lions.

This motif also adorns the rampart between the walls of Leyndell. There was a colony of the Nameless Eternal City nearby, as well as the Fortified Manor where Serosh resided. The colony was too small to warrant such massive walls, and the Fortified Manor was itself meant for defense. It wouldn't make sense for Serosh to build a fortified structure in the middle of a city with walls kilometers away from it. Thus, we can safely conclude that the outer walls are part of a complex of statues depicting the Erdtree sprout, Tree Sentinels, and the Saint Warrior.

https://preview.redd.it/7mi9po8bbfbh1.png?width=2499&format=png&auto=webp&s=b53722c3d251c8e932ef111f0ca6375382ebd8c6

It's unclear whether this statue was incorporated into any newer Radagon-era constructions, but it notably wasn't removed, unlike what likely happened to Godfrey's statues. Concept art of the Grand Lifts shows that a statue of Godfrey was originally planned for them. Most likely, it was cut from the final game because Radagon systematically cleared out most of Godfrey's statues, leaving the only prominent one in Stormveil Castle—a stronghold of his last descendants. However, the Saint Warrior statue was evidently just a broad symbol of the empire, much like the Tree Sentinels, rather than being heavily associated with Godfrey personally, which is why it was spared.

https://preview.redd.it/e4jslufcbfbh1.png?width=1640&format=png&auto=webp&s=89a2d89f22ab6d812ff70597cb3ac772c0fc2baf

These architectural clues might place the creation of the mausoleums in the Godfrey era. But what purpose could they have served back then? One idea I had was that they might have been sacrifices to the Two Fingers. There are exactly seven mausoleums in the game, and there are seven known Two Fingers: five atop the Divine Towers, one in the Roundtable Hold, and one hiding from Ranni. This could have been part of the deal Marika made with the Two Fingers when they pronounced her an Empyrean. However, this is where the theory hits a dead end, as it fails to cleanly connect to the eclipses, the ghosts attached to the mausoleums' legs, the bells, or the fact that they are constantly walking.

Instead, I propose that the Mausoleums are actually from a much later era, despite their architectural style. First, although we see Nox influences in Erdtree architecture, it is always derived from the above-ground colonies like Lower Leyndell and Sellia, and never from the underground Nox cities themselves. Yet, the mausoleum architecture clearly most resembles Nokstella, not Lower Leyndell. Second, we never see Walking Mausoleums in the Land of Shadow. I think this strongly suggests they were created after the crusade against the Hornsent, which happened closer to the end of Godfrey's era.

Remembrance Duplication

When we slay demigods and other powerful entities, we receive their Remembrances. It is said that these are "hewn into the Erdtree." This feels like a direct reference to real-world Norse mythology, where the three Norns sat at the foot of Yggdrasil and carved the fates of every living being into its bark or roots—dictating their birth, how they would live, and the manner of their death. These were the inescapable runes of fate, binding even the gods.

https://preview.redd.it/3qk2af1ebfbh1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=928509d47ba38471873e8514a051cb38ab4adb17

Indeed, in Elden Ring, the Erdtree now controls the fates of men, usurping the stars:

>"During the age of the Erdtree, Carian astrology withered on the vine. The fate once writ in the night skies had been fettered by the Golden Order."

The Erdtree seems to automatically record the defeat of a demigod by our hand, as well as the great deeds they accomplished in life. The headless demigods inside the mausoleums, however, lack an identity. A person's face is the most distinct part of their body—it is what anchors their identity. Without a head, the demigod lying in the mausoleum isn't just headless; they are nameless. It's not just us, the players, who don't know which specific person lies in a given mausoleum. I believe the purpose of this ritual is to fool the Erdtree so that it cannot record the fate of this specific person—it doesn't know if they died or in what manner. This is what allows us to duplicate Remembrances: we trick the Erdtree into believing the nameless demigod in the mausoleum is actually Godrick, Morgott, or whoever else, allowing us to get their Remembrance hewn into the Erdtree's bark a second time.

Eclipse

Of course, Remembrance duplication wasn't the original intended use of these headless demigods. It was a deliberate ritual to confuse the Erdtree—a way to kill a demigod without the Erdtree officially recording their death. But why? We get very few clues about these specific demigods, but one comes from a wandering spirit:

>"The mausoleum prowls. Cradling the soulless demigod. O Marika, Queen Eternal. He is your unwanted child."

As the Eclipse Crest Heater Shield tells us, these demigods are soulless, and the eclipsed sun is their symbol. Destined Death is highly dangerous to them, and the symbol of the eclipsed sun is meant to aid the headless mausoleum knights by keeping Destined Death at bay.

https://preview.redd.it/zpilb37hbfbh1.png?width=1921&format=png&auto=webp&s=aafa128e7e462d5d2845a0dea022d9d140549af7

Furthermore, the soulless demigods are expected to eventually be revived, as indicated by the description of Lhutel the Headless, and the ghost in Castle Sol:

>"Ohh great sun! Frigid sun of Sol! Surrender yourself to the eclipse! Grant life to the soulless bones!"

https://preview.redd.it/x6frquwfbfbh1.png?width=2510&format=png&auto=webp&s=d6cfae50848596383821449a2ff8419793a29db7

While Destined Death is considered a grave threat to these demigods, the Mausoleum Knights explicitly ornament themselves with wings harking back to the Deathbirds. They willingly beheaded themselves, and there is an ancient axe used for sacrifices to the Outer God of Death, which, judging by its form, likely involved beheading. Thus, the Mausoleum Knights seemingly revered the Deathbirds (and, by extension, the Outer God of Death), but deeply feared Destined Death itself.

https://preview.redd.it/9897r6pibfbh1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=a79d137b68f8bfdef72a889c7b720d0712cc512e

Thanks to u/RagnaBreaker for putting together most of the evidence.

The True Purpose of the Ritual

Marika threatened her children with becoming sacrifices if they failed to make something of themselves:

>"Hear me, Demigods. My children beloved. Make of thyselves that which ye desire. Be it a Lord. Be it a God. But should ye fail to become aught at all, ye will be forsaken. Amounting only to sacrifices..."

Considering the soulless demigods are described as her "unwanted children," it makes sense that they are the very same demigods who failed this ultimatum. But when exactly did this happen? In the original Japanese text of Marika's echo, she uses the word もう (), which translates to "already" or "now": "Demigods, my beloved children. You can now become anything."

This highlights a distinct shift in attitude and circumstances. Before this point, her children didn't have to fight for survival. They obviously couldn't become true Gods, as Marika held that monopoly. But something changed, and now they not only can, but must strive for it. I believe this speech was given shortly after the Night of the Black Knives. Marika was driven to the brink and eventually shattered the Elden Ring, but we don't know exactly how much time passed between the assassination and the Shattering. Judging by the ancient tablets and scrolls chaotically hoarded in her bedchamber, we can clearly see her frantically searching for ways to revive Godwyn and fix the Golden Order.

https://preview.redd.it/eragz4ikbfbh1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=1ee72655993804a080557accb034ac51a42c4a23

I theorize that the Walking Mausoleums were one of her desperate attempts to revive Godwyn. To avoid becoming the sacrifices required for this ritual, her other children had to fight to prove their worth. This is likely the period when Miquella departed to grow the Haligtree, having been permitted by his mother to explore such heretical alternatives.

The core point of this ritual was for the sacrificed demigods to cross into the spirit realm and search for Godwyn's soul. They were promised that they would be revived and returned alongside Godwyn when an eclipse finally occurred. For whatever reason, that eclipse never came to pass. The eclipse appears to be a cosmic event where the boundary between the material and spirit realms thins, allowing spirits to cross over more easily.

To cheat the Erdtree and bypass standard death, the chosen demigods needed to be beheaded, stripping them of their identities. The same logic applies to their guards, the Mausoleum Knights, who beheaded themselves so they could walk the physical realm as spirits without fully passing on.

To organize a thorough search for Godwyn's soul, these mausoleums were scattered all across the Lands Between.

In Elden Ring, sound is a powerful concept capable of crossing the boundary between realms. We summon Torrent using a whistle. Red Albinaurics and Tibia Mariners summon giant skeletons by blowing into horns and producing deep sounds.

https://preview.redd.it/nmwb73zlbfbh1.png?width=2636&format=png&auto=webp&s=fa8d416bd4a654cf8ab0217cf4dfa819f0c4dd04

The mausoleums constantly ring their giant bells because they are acting as beacons, calling out to the souls of the headless demigods. Once those souls located Godwyn in the spirit realm, they were supposed to follow the sound of the bells back to their physical bodies, slipping through the open boundary on the day of the eclipse. The bells are massive enough to be heard from miles away, and the mausoleums endlessly walk their routes to ensure the demigods could hear the tolling no matter where they were in the spirit realm.

However, this relentless ringing has a side effect: it attracts other wandering souls, who follow the sound and cling to the mausoleums' legs. As for why breaking these skulls stops the mausoleums from walking, I believe the answer is purely mechanical and lies in the realm of game design.

Nox's Part of the Deal

The Noxian influence seems to extend beyond just architecture. In Nightreign, Mausoleum Knights and other headless creatures inhabit Noklateo, another Eternal City. I wouldn't consider this hard lore evidence—searching for the literal reasons they are in Noklateo—but rather a strong thematic connection that the level designers maintained after reading FromSoftware's internal lore bible.

https://preview.redd.it/afsoglqnbfbh1.png?width=3840&format=png&auto=webp&s=ec342227bdf840b46fbac34f0378edfa1f761178

It seems highly likely that the concept for such a gruesome ritual originally came from the Nox. We don't see overt signs of Deathbird veneration in the Eternal Cities, but such practices were long forgotten and actively persecuted by the Erdtree Empire. It makes more sense that the ancient culture of the Nox, rather than orthodox Erdtree priests, dug up this archaic ritual and suggested it to Marika. One subtle clue supporting this connection might be found in the game's internal files, where the Tibia Mariners are named "Nightlord's Kin".

But why would Nox architecture be prominently featured on the mausoleums if the scions of the Eternal City were the ones who orchestrated the Night of the Black Knives? Let's remember that the Nox cities were not razed to the ground or invaded immediately following Godwyn's assassination. We've seen Marika's brutal capacity to wage crusades against factions that fall out of her favor, so why did she spare the Eternal Cities? While Nokron was hidden, contact with Nokstella was clearly established, given the Saint statue located there. I theorize that the Black Knife Assassins acted completely on their own, and the official leaders of the Eternal Cities hastily renounced them. Offering this mausoleum ritual to help Marika retrieve Godwyn's soul could have been their way of apologizing and proving their opposition to the assassins.

But Aren't the Headless Demigods the Victims of the Night of the Black Knives?

It is a popular community theory that the headless demigods inside the mausoleums are the other victims of the Night of the Black Knives. However, one major clue suggests this might not be the case: they are explicitly called Marika's "unwanted children." Why would Marika organize a massive, elaborate ritual for their return if they were unwanted? Were her threats about sacrificing the children who "amounted to naught" completely empty?

Furthermore, Godwyn was buried at the roots of the Erdtree, while the headless demigods are contained within wandering stone structures. If they all perished in the same event, what explains this discrepancy in their burial methods? If these deaths happened at different points in the timeline, and there was a specific purpose behind being beheaded, it explains the environmental storytelling much better, in my opinion.

Headless Sacrifices at the Finger Ruins

This brings us to the headless figures we find at two of the Finger Ruins in the Land of Shadow. These are evidently much earlier victims of a similar ritual, likely serving as the dark inspiration for the Walking Mausoleums. However, there is one large distinction: not only are their heads missing, but their fingers have been cut off as well.

https://preview.redd.it/4ayy8xfpbfbh1.png?width=1985&format=png&auto=webp&s=680ad4384d624f3b01586146cef615698c9d4a29

If beheading is a way to dispose of a person's identity and hide their death from the Erdtree, what does severing their fingers represent?

>"You, please, I can read them. Your fingers, please, your fingers..."

https://preview.redd.it/l5ire4uqbfbh1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=acb42b2c568561631fceca9c07939251566c4249

While reading palms is a common fortune-telling trope in the real world, the world of Elden Ring has an entire caste of Finger Readers who divine your future and your fate by reading your fingers. If you sever the fingers, you dispose of the fate.

The soulless demigods in the Walking Mausoleums lost their identities, but they still had a duty to fulfill. They had a future—to return with Godwyn's soul and be revived. But the sacrifices at the Finger Ruins lost their fates entirely. Not only were their deaths and identities erased from the world, but their entire existence was wiped out. They never died; they were never born; they simply ceased to be. Everything about them is erased. They don't need Walking Mausoleums, knightly guards, or bells because they are not meant to be revived.

There is strong inspiration from Japanese mythology and pop-culture at play here. In Japanese folklore, people can turn into lingering spirits after death if they have an unfulfilled duty or wish. They are trapped in the material world and can only pass into the spirit realm after fulfilling their goal, which is tragic in its own right. However, they also possess energy cores that they can transfer to a living person—for example, to revive them. If they do this, they vanish completely from the world, and all memory of their earthly existence disappears with them. We see this trope in a lot of anime and manga (I'll just mention DanDaDan as a recent example without spoiling it). This concept was pretty rare in actual ancient texts, but was popularized in modern ghost stories. Miyazaki is not shy of modern pop culture inspirations, and not just real myths, as I explored in the usage of the word Saint in Elden Ring.

https://preview.redd.it/1b0r51asbfbh1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=54bd93414048a1ab2519b808a868cc12a9e50d95

As a quick aside: Kitsune (Japanese fox spirits) possess jewels that act as these energy cores. They are most often called 宝珠の玉 (hoju no tama, wish-fulfilling jewel); however, in Miyagi prefecture, they are called 星の玉 (hoshi no tama, star jewel). This could serve as the inspiration for Glintstone Cores in the game. That might be reaching a bit too far, but it's a fascinating connection.

https://preview.redd.it/thz1vymtbfbh1.png?width=1196&format=png&auto=webp&s=38018686c0ed6a302febec63586599d08e4e66ad

So, what was the actual point of this cruel sacrifice at the Finger Ruins? It is likely directly connected to Metyr and the Elden Beast. There are three Finger Ruins in total, named Rhia (referencing Rhea, mother of Greek gods and Dactyls), Dheo (from the Latin Deo - god), and Miyr (likely from the Irish méar, meaning finger). The Rhia and Dheo ruins have blue and golden sparks hovering over them on the map, respectively, as well as in actual locations (credit to u/Crypticnewt for spotting it).

https://preview.redd.it/17xvbsxubfbh1.png?width=1001&format=png&auto=webp&s=34b381ec118438e06cbbd4f16de603735b85ebe4

These colors are distinctly associated with Metyr and the Elden Beast. It is a glaring mystery why there are three Finger Ruins but only two known major cosmic vassal entities. If the etymology holds up, the central Miyr ruins could be where the Two Fingers themselves initially landed. Currently, Metyr resides beneath Miyr, but she may have originally landed in the Rhia ruins and relocated later. The grievous wound she bears might be the reason she needed to hide. The community heavily associates the Fingerslayer Blade with Metyr's wound and her subsequent hiding. While we can't find hard evidence of Nox involvement at the ruins, the sacrifices were clearly made before Metyr relocated, and the Nox later partially reenacted this exact ritual with the Walking Mausoleums. Could the Nox have been involved in the original Finger Ruin sacrifices as well?

https://preview.redd.it/boibdbfwbfbh1.png?width=2557&format=png&auto=webp&s=684d13897267f7cf3d214a29280bb42a9132448c

Metyr seems to reside in a spirit/parallel realm, as we must blow into the giant hanging bells at the ruins to reach her. As discussed earlier, sound is the key to calling across realms. We don't fight her in the physical space of the Miyr ruins, but in a localized pocket dimension. Torrent's whistle is made out of human finger bones, and we blow into a giant, finger-shaped bell to connect with Metyr.

https://preview.redd.it/ax3cuzwxbfbh1.png?width=1976&format=png&auto=webp&s=8f645102c146341023aaf98931dc846b9bd29417

I believe these headless, fingerless sacrifices were made to pull Metyr and the Elden Beast closer to the physical realm, if not completely into it. This could have been done to inflict the wound on Metyr, or to harness the Elden Beast to forge the Elden Ring. Given the gravity of the ritual, the victims must have been powerful figures—likely at the level of demigods themselves.

At this point, I don't have enough hard evidence to make further assumptions, but I hope this opens up the discussion surrounding the headless sacrifices found in the Finger Ruins!

TL;DR:

The Walking Mausoleums were part of a ritual—suggested by the Nox to Marika following the Night of the Black Knives—designed to retrieve Godwyn's soul from the spirit realm. It involved beheading "unwanted" demigods so the Erdtree wouldn't formally record their deaths, sending them into the spirit realm to search for Godwyn, and calling them back via giant bells on the day of an eclipse. The Nox were inspired by an even more ancient sacrifice made at the Finger Ruins to connect with cosmic entities (Metyr and the Elden Beast). Those original victims had their heads and fingers severed, sacrificing not just their identities, but their very fates, leaving no memory of them in the world.

P.S. Thank you for reading through all of this! I've posted a lot of theories in this sub, but nothing with this volume of new lore connections that I haven't seen discussed elsewhere. I'll probably post smaller tidbits here and there in the future, but I doubt I'll tackle anything of this scale again. To be honest, I was a bit intimidated by the amount of evidence I had to organize for this one, which is why I was engaging in some productive procrastination by posting my other theories in the meantime!

u/SolidAlloy — 19 hours ago

Shaping Runes and the Laws of the World: "Smithing Considered Divine" is a Hint at Something Bigger

Rauh and the Age of Gods

The game tells us time and time again that smithing was considered divine in ancient times. This is stated in relation to the Fire Giants, just as it is stated in the DLC regarding the Ruined Forges. However, an important connection flew completely over my head until I read a cut description of Marika's Hammer:

>"Forged in the age of gods, it harbors colossal magic power."

The current version in the game only mentions that it comes from "outside the Lands Between." We know very little about the age of gods, but there is an important connection to be made here: the Ancient Meteoric Ore Greatsword was crafted by the Old Gods, who were likely the titans whose massive skeletons are encased in stone on the Mountaintops of the Giants and in Caelid. The greatsword was once an arrowhead used by these very titans. In one of my previous posts, I explained that Rauh and the titans were probably the first two societies to appear in the Lands Between. Could Rauh also be considered a civilization from the age of gods?

https://preview.redd.it/mt5dcuwlctah1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=3e0cfab910e2e8e92186fcb26b66ca689e80ef09

The thematic connection between Shamans and Miranda flowers has been made by multiple people in the community (I particularly liked Mirko's analysis on this matter). Miranda flowers evidently originate from Rauh. If Shamans evolved from Miranda flowers, it would explain their possession of a hammer from that ancient era. The phrasing "outside the Lands Between" in the hammer and Numen descriptions still bothers me slightly. Mirko explains that this could be read from the perspective of someone living in the current era, where the Land of Shadow is now physically separated from the Lands Between, but this reading is still a bit problematic.

https://preview.redd.it/qkjges1nctah1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=b3bafa638be22d3e209d2abee7cb26015cb58442

The Advent of Fundamentalism

Marika's Hammer was used not only to shatter the Elden Ring—and who knows if it is the only tool capable of doing so—but also in Radagon's attempt to repair it. Add to that the fact that the piece on which the Elden Ring is shattered is a stake anvil, historically known as a kanadoko, which is traditionally used in Japan by ring makers.

https://preview.redd.it/rcqmcejoctah1.png?width=1913&format=png&auto=webp&s=783aa2ea07b24fbf321db1367ac223c00d2a9fdc

The act of "working" the Elden Ring is closely associated with Radagon. There is even a distinct cross pattern carved directly into the anvil.

https://preview.redd.it/44xe79dqctah1.png?width=627&format=png&auto=webp&s=bd730a37d78feba35134a72c93be5edacbdc5d1b

We know that Marika struggled against the Gloam-Eyed Queen. It wasn't an easy win, as the GEQ's nobles managed to kill multiple demigods. It was only after plucking the Rune of Death that Marika finally managed to defeat the GEQ. This period is also heavily associated with a shift in Marika's attitude: she called herself "Eternal" and declared herself the one true god. The sealing of the Rune of Death marks the founding of Fundamentalism. Let's examine Marika's spoken echoes from this period:

>"I declare mine intent, to search the depths of the Golden Order. Through understanding of the proper way, our faith, our grace, is increased. Those blissful early days of blind belief are long past. My comrades; why must ye falter?"

https://preview.redd.it/fa3t6sasctah1.png?width=669&format=png&auto=webp&s=94aaadd2d24281d0eda09e568a834a8b3f62a1c6

Marika's empire wasn't always culturally uniform, nor did it strictly enforce Erdtree burial across all its territories from the start. The catacombs were built during the Erdtree empire's reign:

>"The roots of the Greattree were once linked to those of the Erdtree, or so they say, and it is for this reason catacombs are built around Greattree roots."

And yet, we can find coffins and urns holding ashes inside these catacombs—clear evidence that not all cultures immediately adopted Erdtree burial.

https://preview.redd.it/7sgx8j3uctah1.png?width=2489&format=png&auto=webp&s=0e0561da32b9545809789dceb30f7bfa41847a01

Early on, Marika did not enforce strict rules on Liurnia or the Hornsent, who were her vassals. As Rogier tells us regarding Raya Lucaria:

>"In the past, they obeyed laws which contravened the Golden Order, or so I'm told. Fascinating, isn't it? That the Golden Order was pliable enough to absorb practices that contradicted itself in the past."

Indeed, Raya Lucaria practiced glintstone transplantation—an extremely heretical practice in the eyes of the Erdtree Empire. And yet, the Liurnian Wars didn't start until much later. Why would Marika need to wage war against an entity she had already incorporated into the Erdtree Empire as a vassal state?

https://preview.redd.it/ypgppzhvctah1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=e3ddc26b90c30e5d88ddc09b95617c6ab6e7a386

The same logic applies to the Hornsent. As I explore in another post, the Hornsent were Marika's vassals. There is no Gold Road traversing their territory, which shows it wasn't part of the empire proper. Yet, the Hornsent built churches containing statues that depict an older design of Marika. Marika tolerated their heretical experiments in Enir-Ilim up until the exact moment she felt the need to call a crusade on them. How come?

https://preview.redd.it/u6wmppxwctah1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=43486b77068ed1af2b7a1b6c3a829839de1e37d1

I believe both of these events are connected to the fact that the grueling war with the GEQ fundamentally changed Marika's worldview. Notice that in the aforementioned echo, she talks to her comrades about "searching the depths of the Golden Order." She is sending them into battle—likely against Liurnia. This is reinforced by the words she speaks at a farther point on the march toward Raya Lucaria, at the Grand Lift of Dectus:

>"The Erdtree governs all. The choice is thine. Become one with the Order. Or divest thyself of it. To wallow at the fringes; a powerless upstart."

This is a direct threat to the Liurnians and all vassals of the empire who hadn't fully adopted her laws: We tolerated your heresies before, but no longer.

https://preview.redd.it/ydjar4kyctah1.png?width=1138&format=png&auto=webp&s=76aefe44d3eb26a0030cc6d51770c3b12f8294e7

If it was so easy to change the runes within the Elden Ring, why did Marika struggle against the GEQ for so long? Why does she refer to her early rule as "days of blind belief"? It is because she didn't actually know how to shape the Elden Ring. She was merely a blind vessel for it. The difficult encounter with the GEQ taught Marika that allowing divergent beliefs was dangerous, and she realized she needed to actively shape the laws of the world to retain control over her empire and her vassals. But since she didn't know how to do that—how to physically work the Elden Ring—she needed to research it.

Radagon the Smith

People constantly speculate about who Radagon was before becoming Elden Lord. Some say he was a giant. Others say he was a Misbegotten. Either way, he was deeply tied to the art of smithing. Whereas the Fire Giants operated the Giant's Forge, the Misbegotten were involved in operating the Ruined Forges (perhaps as slaves). This connection to smithing is reinforced by Hewg, a Misbegotten whom Marika valued so highly that she specifically instructed him to forge a weapon capable of killing a god.

https://preview.redd.it/6gx5dcq0dtah1.png?width=2330&format=png&auto=webp&s=e8210d7a338dbc3ec0db2377befe4fb21d3e6151

I previously theorized that Radagon could have used the Amber Egg to be reborn into Marika. But the Egg must have already been in Marika's possession, so why would she allow that? I believe she needed Radagon to physically work the Elden Ring and pluck the Rune of Death from it. This wasn't Radagon's only modification, either, as he later integrated his own cross-pattern rune into the Elden Ring. Smithing was an art considered divine in ancient times, and there were very few people left who possessed the knowledge required to forge a divine element like the Elden Ring—especially after the demise of almost all the Fire Giants.

https://preview.redd.it/m5w6m1z1dtah1.png?width=1815&format=png&auto=webp&s=79d6faab7289f25691df2c13cfeeddfff65a0add

Working Runes and Rings

This leads to a massive revelation: the reason smithing was considered divine wasn't just because the Fell God gifted it to the Fire Giants, and it wasn't just because you could perceive patterns in molten iron to make weapons fly. It was considered divine because there was an ancient faction that could physically work Runes.

In Marika's era, working the runes of the Elden Ring allowed her to change the laws of nature. If an ancient faction could work runes and shape the world, they would naturally be considered gods, hence the "age of gods." Whether this faction was definitively from Rauh doesn't strictly matter, but the Shamans and Numen are apparently the descendants of this prehistoric culture. The hammer was passed down from generation to generation of Shaman mothers until it was finally given to Marika.

I don't think it was just a physical item being passed down; ancient tales and prophecies were transferred along with the hammer—tales of how, in ancient times, people could work runes, become gods, and shape the laws of nature. Perhaps to Marika's mother, these were just stories to tell her child. But Marika took them to heart. When she discovered the experiments being done by the Hornsent, she set out to actualize what was previously considered just a beautiful myth.

https://preview.redd.it/1fb8c7n3dtah1.png?width=1400&format=png&auto=webp&s=9cdae9ad2b901ed4ca35e68005c187a8b1adbf01

This is heavily supported by the theory that Placidusax's fled god, depicted on the statue in Farum Azula, was from Rauh. The crown worn by the queen in Farum Azula is similar to the octagonal crown of the Queen of Rauh. I know it is technically a reused asset from Bloodborne, but the crown's shape was specifically altered for its depiction in Farum Azula, making it a deliberate design choice. The first goddess to create the Elden Ring hailed from a culture that knew how to work runes.

https://preview.redd.it/39l32ys4dtah1.png?width=1762&format=png&auto=webp&s=a67d4bb34312c1eab78e02045729fc95b03a8676

TL;DR

Smithing was considered divine because an ancient faction (likely from Rauh) possessed the ability to work and shape Runes. This era was known as the "age of gods," and the very first Elden Ring was created by an individual from this culture. Marika's Hammer originates from this age and was passed down through generations of Shamans, even as the actual art of rune-smithing was forgotten and reduced to myth. Raised on these tales, Marika eventually materialized them. However, after the defeat of the Fire Giants, there was barely anyone left with the knowledge of such high-level, divine smithing. She needed to alter the Elden Ring to defeat the GEQ but didn't know how, so she sought out Radagon, who was either a Giant or a Misbegotten with divine smithing knowledge. The cost of this alliance was Radagon using the Amber Egg to be reborn into Marika.

u/SolidAlloy — 4 days ago

The Mystery of the Owner of Radagon's Scarseal on the Weeping Peninsula

On the western side of the Weeping Peninsula stands an evergaol with an Ancient Hero of Zamor locked inside—so far away from her homeland. Upon defeating her, we receive Radagon's Scarseal, one of only four such eye-seals found in the game. What was she doing there, and can this tell us anything new about Radagon?

https://preview.redd.it/kkupxx9fylah1.png?width=740&format=png&auto=webp&s=22a54b9060459e9de916b6729a0be7e71852efc3

This post is partially in response to u/amansaidthis's recent post about the significance of the eye seals. I think I have enough interesting information on this topic to warrant a separate discussion.

u/amansaidthis theorizes that the fact that an Ancient Hero of Zamor possessed such a talisman proves Radagon was active before the Liurnian Wars. I am going to provide some pushback on using this specific detail as proof. While Radagon existing before the Liurnian Wars is certainly possible, I don't believe this is the evidence for it. More importantly, this post will focus on what the Hero of Zamor was doing on the Weeping Peninsula and why she was imprisoned in the first place.

What Are the Eye Seals?

https://preview.redd.it/ui0rrfkcylah1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=a65aa6ed43126c9d7e16c090196928d2a03e5327

Let's first clarify what these seals actually are.

>An eye engraved with an Elden Rune.
Scarseal: These seals represent the lifelong duty of those chosen by the gods.
Soreseal: Solemn duty weighs upon the one beholden; not unlike a gnawing curse from which there is no deliverance.

Based on the first sentence and their visual appearance, I don't think these are artificial objects like the Irises of Grace and Occultation. Instead, they are actual organic eyes. My understanding of the description is that these are not Marika's or Radagon's own eyes—if they were, Marika and Radagon's shared body would need to have had four eyeballs in total.

Instead, they are the actual eyes of high-ranking servants, with symbols physically engraved onto them by Marika and Radagon. They improve the stats of a servant sent on a vital mission, but the only way to rid yourself of the engraving is by gouging out your own eye, essentially making it a life sentence. If the engraving is carved too deeply, your stats are increased even more, but your eye becomes sore and infected. I believe this shows that such engravings were given to people assigned particularly brutal tasks. They weren't expected to live long, nor were they expected to return.

As to why these are talismans and not just plain eyes in our inventory, that seems to be a gameplay decision. The developers leave it to our imagination that the Tarnished fashions a talisman out of the gouged-out eye of the fallen foe we just defeated.

Radagon's Timeline

So, Radagon engraved his rune onto the eye of an Ancient Hero of Zamor and sent her to the Weeping Peninsula. The only other person practicing something like this was Marika herself. Not even Godfrey would do anything like that. To me, this reveals two things:

  • Radagon was already at a status almost equal to Marika when he engraved his rune onto these eyeballs. He clearly saw himself as a god, which makes sense considering he shared a body with Marika, though Marika eventually had to put him in his place, pointing out that he had "yet to become a god".
  • Radagon already had his own Great Rune, the creation of which he attributed to himself. He even incorporated this rune into the Elden Ring, as its cross-hatch pattern wasn't there before he became the Second Elden Lord.

This strongly suggests to me that Radagon carved this rune when he was already the Elden Lord, not before.

https://preview.redd.it/wsmsi9eiylah1.png?width=656&format=png&auto=webp&s=bd757a783ce3526bd7c6d3ba78ffe64daa66cb8b

The Ancient Heroes of Zamor seem to have been sidelined in history once the War against the Giants ended. In the game, they even have chains attached to their wrists, as if they had been held prisoner and later escaped. Couldn't Marika have put them in chains after they served their purpose, just as she did with the trolls who now pull the Great Coffin carriages across the land?

https://preview.redd.it/ik9gzv5sylah1.png?width=2228&format=png&auto=webp&s=18a2db30df0a31056251a92d3a0e23ce59d357e9

However, the presence of the Ancient Hero of Zamor guarding the Sainted Hero's Grave disproves this notion. The ashes this particular hero guards on the Altus Plateau belong to Ancient Dragon Knight Kristoff. Kristoff not only worshipped the dragons after their assault on Leyndell (which happened after the War against the Giants) but also participated in the First Defense of Leyndell during the Shattering. The fact that an Ancient Hero of Zamor was placed as an honorary guard at this grave highlights her relatively high position in Erdtree society, long after the war with the giants ended.

https://preview.redd.it/gvze6t2oylah1.png?width=3000&format=png&auto=webp&s=aa4d3797365f9cd704c896b818db8b92841456cf

The Imprisoned Hero

Returning to the Ancient Hero of Zamor sent to the Weeping Peninsula, let's examine the surrounding points of interest. The prominent landmarks around the Weeping Evergaol include the Witchbane Ruins, Tombsward Cave, and Tombsward Ruins.

  • Witchbane Ruins: Riddled with Marionette Soldiers and a School of Graven Mages, this is where we later find Sellen hiding. The name and enemies tell us it's an old hideout for heretics, unlikely to be a place originally settled by Carians. It's exactly because it's so far from other Carian settlements that the Graven Mages found refuge here. Could Radagon have cared about this prohibited sorcery and wanted to hunt down Sellen? It's unlikely he sent the Hero there while he was Rennala's husband, but he could have still taken an interest in Liurnian matters later on, considering Raya Lucaria was absorbed into the empire after the union of the Erdtree and Caria.

https://preview.redd.it/fqi2hnb1zlah1.png?width=720&format=png&auto=webp&s=53d18d7ab24e9e6d4e823fb3e483582389f48864

  • Tombsward Cave & Ruins: The "-ward" suffix was historically added to guarded districts. Evidently, the town located there was responsible for guarding a tomb or multiple tombs. The adjacent cave is infested with poison flowers and worshippers, which fits the region's poison theme. The most notable item there is the Viridian Amber Medallion, which references the jewels of the age of Godfrey. Godfrey reached this peninsula long ago and was likely joined by Perfumers who studied the Miranda flowers in this cave. The presence of Noble Pages at the Tombsward Ruins confirms this was a regular Erdtree Empire town, frequently visited by Perfumers and their escorts.

https://preview.redd.it/2yamtey3zlah1.png?width=596&format=png&auto=webp&s=e93557e30b3312e9e628e1528993e5ca487af570

  • Tombsward Catacombs: Although slightly further away, this is where the ashes of Lhutel the Headless—a knight who leads the mausoleum soldiers—are stored. This clarifies the naming of the region: it doesn't just refer to regular catacombs, but to the Walking Mausoleum serving as the tomb of a soulless demigod.

https://preview.redd.it/iv2ok7w6zlah1.png?width=1931&format=png&auto=webp&s=741284692cb71014b35f23586c92ebeef7f18d92

I don't see why Radagon would be personally interested in the Walking Mausoleum. For the story to make sense, the task he sent the Hero on must have been incredibly dangerous, and the Hero must have been imprisoned by a specific faction.

The first to come to mind are Godrick's soldiers, who currently occupy Castle Morne. But even if there was conflict there, what specific task would the Hero have regarding Godrick? Spying on him? And why would Godrick's men spare a Zamor Hero and go through the trouble of sealing her in an evergaol instead of just killing her?

Finally, we come to the Tarnished. Just to the south lies the Tower of Return, containing a trap chest that transports the arriving Tarnished directly to the Fortified Manor. To the north of the Weeping Evergaol is the Church of Pilgrimage, where Marika directly addressed the Tarnished:

>"Then, after thy death, I will give back what I once claimed. Return to the Lands Between, wage war, and brandish the Elden Ring."

https://preview.redd.it/awh9lvs8zlah1.png?width=1772&format=png&auto=webp&s=50acd05195235b32f126083e3726214d4357f1ca

More importantly, a scarab found directly between the Tombsward Ruins and the Weeping Evergaol drops the Divine Fortification incantation:

>Incantation of the Two Fingers' faithful. Increases holy damage negation. Follow the path that has been set for you, and you will make enemies of all others: the monks, the sorcerers, the ancient dragon knights, and the scions of gold. Heed me — the Lands Between offers no welcome to the Tarnished.

https://preview.redd.it/8gzkq0eczlah1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=79829d1806cea397964a119481a9e2137e984432

This is an incantation of the Confessors—clerics of the Two Fingers who practiced outside the Lands Between and were guided back by the Fingers as Tarnished. They are faithful, yet they need a spell to defend against the holy incantations of the Erdtree because they are not welcome here. They practice almost the exact same religion, wishing for the continuation of the Erdtree. If an agent of the Elden Lord was sent to exterminate them upon their arrival, the Confessors would have enough religious overlap and compassion to imprison her in an evergaol rather than outright executing her.

https://preview.redd.it/n00inzrfzlah1.png?width=285&format=png&auto=webp&s=73f1ace0085eb16c022089196191cc63becc3004

It seems the developers' intent was to show that the return of the Tarnished bothered Radagon deeply, although barely any clues were left in the final game text. However, in the version 1.00 text for the Limgrave, East map piece, it is Radagon who issues a warning regarding the coming of the Tarnished, even before the Shattering:

>"The demesne of Tenebrae, far south of the capital, stands vigil before the vast Sea of Fog. Radagon's warning is yet told and retold. That one day, the Tarnished led into war will cross the Sea of Fog and return. For the Elden Ring."

https://preview.redd.it/8c7ctb0izlah1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=8b657edc5263087e3b3aac597cef09643d21584d

This text was likely cut along with the existence of Tenebrae. This faction was probably an early branch of Erdtree worship that was later replaced by Fundamentalism. Because Fundamentalism focused on a broader scope of issues, the concept of Tenebrae likely became redundant. However, I don't think Radagon's core motives changed in the developers' eyes. Those motives are still shown to us through the careful environmental storytelling surrounding the Weeping Evergaol and a single scarab nearby.

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u/SolidAlloy — 5 days ago

Character Parallels (Microcosms) Considered Harmful: The Pretty Tale of Hoarah Loux vs. Sobering Reality

After the release of the DLC, the community noticed similarities between the questlines of minor NPCs and major characters like Marika. Hungry for more lore, many players tried to force these NPC questlines to mirror the main characters to uncover hidden backstory details.

I think this trend started when people realized Jarburg and the Shaman Village are visually identical. Jar Bairn is the only one left in Jarburg, just like Marika was supposedly the only one left in the Shaman Village. The conclusion drawn was that Marika must have been a small, innocent girl who survived a raid on her home, right?

https://preview.redd.it/8xrbz60l48ah1.png?width=250&format=png&auto=webp&s=e874940a542e0639988c2bd175473d2f5d208d7e

While this Jarburg parallel was somewhat believable, people started aggressively searching for 1:1 reflections in other characters. When I read theories like "Godwyn researched Deathblight before his death because Rogier is his microcosm," it didn't sit right with me. The community has gone too far with these "microcosm" theories.

https://preview.redd.it/dfvwd5rl48ah1.png?width=827&format=png&auto=webp&s=ed58b72b33b1c64be57f09a80593efc572173196

To break the notion that FromSoftware designed NPC questlines as mirrors to tell us about major characters, I will construct a "microcosm tale" paralleling Hoarah Loux and Nepheli Loux—and then shatter those assumptions using the game's actual textual and environmental evidence. After all, what better test subject for a microcosm theory than the Loux lineage? Nepheli acquires a Storm Hawk King spirit and becomes a lord despite her barbaric origins, exactly like Hoarah Loux.

The Nepheli Loux Microcosm Tale

1. The Conquest of Stormveil
We first meet Nepheli at Stormveil Castle, where she helps us defeat Godrick, the lord of the castle. This seemingly parallels Godfrey defeating the Storm Lord at Stormveil.

https://preview.redd.it/3jg37acn48ah1.png?width=1600&format=png&auto=webp&s=08ad6cb2afcd7921040146677a7c4aba7ba7603f

2. Disgust at Flesh Rituals
When we speak to her, she expresses disgust at the grafting practices taking place. Under the microcosm theory, this reflects Godfrey's opinion on the Hornsent's jarring practices during the era before the Erdtree. Furthermore, by defeating Godrick, Nepheli unknowingly saves Roderika from the gruesome fate her companions suffered. Roderika is thematically linked to Marika: Hewg says Roderika reminds him of a "certain person," and he is personally acquainted with Marika.

https://preview.redd.it/qbfnrl8p48ah1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=50c51144f2c7c55b93d37a17d5491e728df07015

3. Defying a Father Figure
At the Village of the Albinaurics, Nepheli prioritizes her moral compass over the orders of her adoptive father, killing the Omenkiller, even though there is barely anyone left to save. This parallels Godfrey stopping the massacre of the Shaman Village, saving a young hiding girl. In the process, Godfrey would have defied the orders of a father figure—likely a Hornsent commander he served under, since we know bear-hunting Highlanders lived in Hornsent territory. This would also neatly explain how the Crucible Knights came under Godfrey's command: they served alongside him in the Hornsent army and deserted with him.

https://preview.redd.it/l2jf49fq48ah1.png?width=686&format=png&auto=webp&s=89a44eafd1fd7f8402f54d1ebb95b41b3c31533f

4. Exile and the Beast Spirit
Gideon denounces Nepheli, throwing her into a deep depression. This is only resolved when she is given the ashes of the Storm Hawk King. This parallels the Hornsent commander denouncing Godfrey and banishing him from the army. Godfrey resolves this by conquering the Fortified Manor and taking Serosh onto his back.

https://preview.redd.it/8gs4nbxr48ah1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=b1169df1b8efd5f00a636d9abb3e8a66b1c76021

5. Crowned as Lord
Despite her barbarian origins, Nepheli is appointed by Kenneth Haight as the new ruler of Stormveil—the very stronghold she fought against. Kenneth chooses her because he respects her sense of justice. This mirrors Godfrey being appointed as Elden Lord and explains Marika's decision to choose him as repayment for saving her during the Shaman Village raid.

https://preview.redd.it/yzm6kunu48ah1.png?width=1853&format=png&auto=webp&s=4e051681989ed6d975d84695d8a505d583e8eb02

Parallelism is a Lie

This makes for a fantastic story. However, it falls apart the moment we cross-reference it with the game's established timeline and environmental clues.

1. The Timeline of Conquest is Backwards

We know Godfrey conquered the Fortified Manor first; the siege of Stormveil came much later, well after the conquest of Liurnia.

Engvall and Oleg were Banished Knights known as the "Wings of the Storm", or the two wings of the Storm Lord in the Japanese text. Based on the architectural evidence of the Fortified Manor, the Banished Knights originally served under Serosh on the Altus Plateau. After Serosh was defeated and tamed by Godfrey, these knights traveled to Stormveil to serve as the highest commanders under the Storm Lord—who had not yet been defeated by Godfrey.

https://preview.redd.it/iu4517sv68ah1.png?width=1025&format=png&auto=webp&s=280788f8751367c1eca0b19a26c7ef042146de48

We are explicitly told that Godfrey led Marika's conquests starting from Leyndell and moving progressively south until he reached Caelid, where he faced his last worthy opponent and lost his Grace. It makes no geographical or chronological sense for Godfrey to conquer Stormveil, teleport to the Shaman Village, and then take the Fortified Manor without ever passing through Liurnia.

The Elden Lord Crown explicitly outlines the sequence of his campaigns. The War against the Giants happened first, and the conquest of Stormveil happened later:

>"He led the War against the Giants. Faced the Storm Lord, alone. And then, there came a moment. When his last worthy enemy fell."

2. Marika Was Not a Helpless Victim When Ascending

Marika wasn't just a poor, innocent girl saved from a raid. The evidence strongly suggests she utilized Shamans herself and was originally allied with the Hornsent.

If you look closely at the Gate of Divinity, you can find both horned and unhorned individuals among the petrified sacrifices. In the story trailer, these bodies form continuous, flesh-melded structures that hold together even when hanging from sheer vertical walls. They must have been merged using Shaman flesh, as that melding property was the core requirement for the Hornsent's divine rituals. This means Marika's ascension to godhood involved utilizing the flesh of her own fellow Shamans.

https://preview.redd.it/7aao18zw48ah1.png?width=1081&format=png&auto=webp&s=5fa248592a83b96fa93f50bb5994024c88420297

Later, Marika returned to her village and left the Minor Erdtree incantation as either a prayer or a confession. Players often overlook the "confession" part of that item description, but it's highly likely she was confessing to her mother about sacrificing her own people to achieve godhood.

Marika sealed the entrance to the Shaman Village, but crucially, she did not stop the Hornsent from jarring Shamans. It was only much later, when Messmer's army crusaded through the realm, that his soldiers brought the jars into the Shadow Keep's basement hospital and tried to save the people inside, though their medical efforts ultimately failed.

https://preview.redd.it/cfijtomy48ah1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=ac56079b66474079070d88b1e3a7b3cb2f062d5a

3. The Hornsent Were Marika's Vassals

For a vast period of time, the Hornsent were actually vassals of Marika's empire. In the base game, the Gold Road stretches all the way through her empire down to Caelid, and her churches share a specific floor tile design depicting the Elden Ring.

https://preview.redd.it/2cz9zr3058ah1.png?width=2772&format=png&auto=webp&s=1a352bf67d13b002ea5ec2bd523452105d0d9cf0

In the Realm of Shadow, a segment of this same Gold Road exists on the path between the Shadow Keep and the Church of the Crusade.

https://preview.redd.it/9n2sdxh158ah1.png?width=1650&format=png&auto=webp&s=f163e13dcff0c373dde8ba776d37288cef1a935a

Furthermore, there are multiple Churches of Marika built directly in Hornsent territory. These weren't built by Messmer's crusaders. The statues of Marika in these specific churches do not feature the short, cut braid that we see in the newer base-game churches and the statues depicting her holding baby Messmer.

https://preview.redd.it/u3unjv6c78ah1.png?width=3455&format=png&auto=webp&s=9e575e70e516b6a4a9c0e5ed0311a5751051e84a

Additionally, these early churches in Hornsent territory feature the Nox-style architecture that Marika heavily utilized at the onset of her empire, such as the column designs shared between the young Erdtree era and Sellia.

https://preview.redd.it/hqbkbsh458ah1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=83fcac986ba711f474cdce8e120c72ee5485eefd

https://preview.redd.it/0gs582z458ah1.png?width=1151&format=png&auto=webp&s=65600ef1e1a4c0097f99548e621bca9f55935be4

The Hornsent worshipped Marika. This would never have been the case if Marika had violently betrayed them the moment she ascended at the Gate of Divinity. Instead, the true betrayal came much later when she sent Messmer to devastate their lands. They were her vassals, they built churches to her, and yet she still declared a holy purge against them. The Hornsent truly believed they were on Marika's side.

The segment of the Gold Road near the Shadow Keep shows the extent of Marika's empire around the time she returned to the Shaman Village. Messmer wasn't even born yet. Godfrey could have easily marched south from the Keep and violently freed the remaining Shamans. Why didn't he? Because the Hornsent were their allies. A massive amount of time passed between her ascension and the Crusade—enough time for Messmer and Radahn to be born and grow into adulthood. Throughout this entire era, the Hornsent remained Marika's vassals, and she permitted the jarring of her own people to continue.

Jarburg and the Danger of Microcosms

If Marika wasn't a lone survivor of a village raid who immediately struck back against her oppressors, then the Jarburg narrative is not a parallel of Marika's backstory. At this point, I highly doubt any NPC questline was designed with the secret intent of being a microcosm for main character lore. We need to rely on concrete text and environmental design, rather than misinterpreting the developers' narrative intentions by forcing minor questlines to solve major lore mysteries.

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u/SolidAlloy — 7 days ago

The Rune of the Unborn: Whose child was it? Development vs. Final Versions

The Rune of the Unborn references an unborn demigod. Although the English translation says "unborn demigods", the original Japanese text doesn't specify the exact number.

https://preview.redd.it/lfpl8epc71ah1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=34dc79bc04be894ed13dd11c4d646ac459a6fecf

Rennala: The Development Version

Rennala is famously known to have gone mad, offering rebirth to anyone willing. The game states that this happened after Radagon left her, and that his departure is what broke her mind. However, the idea that Radagon leaving is the sole reason for her madness doesn't make much thematic sense. When we first speak to Rennala after her boss fight, she doesn't ask if we know where Radagon is, how he is doing, or if he will ever visit her again. Instead, she is entirely fixated on the rebirth process.

https://preview.redd.it/5ytr2drf71ah1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=b1703a9a2a73d9ca8bcb0a80f5b7f8afae63852d

What if the amber egg was supposed to be her and Radagon's final child? When he left, he left her with this egg—a constant reminder that they would never have another child together. It makes perfect sense that this would cause her to fixate on the concept of rebirth, desperately trying to compensate for the failed birth she had experienced.

Some might argue that the rune must have originally been part of the Elden Ring before being plucked out, meaning Marika had to be the one who did it. Let's look at the only rune we know for an absolute fact was removed from the Elden Ring: the Rune of Destined Death. When it was part of the Order, death was a universal law, and anyone could utilize its effects. In fact, Marika's rival, the Gloam-Eyed Queen, only wielded the power of the Black Flame because the Rune of Death was in place. The only way for Marika to strip her of that power was to pluck it from the Elden Ring. If the Rune of the Unborn had been part of the Elden Ring, then the power of rebirth would have been universal, which I don't believe was the case.

So, how could a Great Rune exist without ever being part of the Elden Ring? We actually know these exist: they are called Mending Runes. Mending Runes are born from the profound desires of people who are pushed to the brink and wish to change the world. They are only called "Mending" runes because the Elden Ring is currently shattered, and they are intended to mend it. However, I don't think the creation of new runes is a post-Shattering exclusive phenomenon; runes created outside the Elden Ring simply weren't called "Mending Runes" back then. It's entirely possible that the Rune of the Unborn manifested directly from the unborn child's desire to enter the world, or from the sheer desperation of a mother wishing for her child to be born.

https://preview.redd.it/2ak2qmjh71ah1.png?width=449&format=png&auto=webp&s=7f3bf019fcf176919d2dff2de4863db207ec97da

I've also seen a theory suggesting that the unborn child inside the amber egg simply received a Great Rune during the Shattering because they were technically a demigod. I don't think this is the case, as not all of Marika's children actually received runes.

In Marika's own words:

>"Demigods, my beloved children. You can be whatever you want to be. A Lord. A God. But, when you cannot become anything, you will be abandoned. And become sacrifices..."

In fact, it's highly likely that the nameless demigods locked in the Walking Mausoleums are Marika's children who failed to make anything significant of themselves, and thus became sacrifices. Why would a Great Rune be bestowed upon an unborn child when some of Marika's living, breathing offspring didn't receive one?

https://preview.redd.it/m99uk5k681ah1.png?width=3840&format=png&auto=webp&s=b6c9001faae516a2dc6cda8431bae4317946f2fd

Ultimately, it seems the idea that the unborn child belonged to Rennala and Radagon might have been a draft of the story during development, which was later reconceptualized.

Marika: The Final Version

The strongest piece of evidence that the child is Marika's is the simple fact that it is explicitly called a "demigod." Ranni and Rennala's other children are step-demigods, officially gaining that title only after Marika and Radagon's marriage. It wouldn't make any sense for Marika to formally "adopt" an unborn egg.

Additional evidence comes from the visual depictions of the Great Runes themselves. Mohg's and Morgott's runes feature a vertical line directly in the center. Radahn's and Rykard's runes have the line positioned on the left. Meanwhile, Malenia's rune and the Rune of the Unborn both feature the line on the right. Although Miquella's broken rune doesn't show the line, it's highly likely that Miquella's Crosses depict his original rune, which also has the line on the right. The visual symmetry strongly implies that the unborn child belongs to the lineage of Marika and Radagon.

https://preview.redd.it/j1qvo6rl71ah1.png?width=3016&format=png&auto=webp&s=f26dc8cdb887ca536f18ddedb09fcdd21ccd3451

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u/SolidAlloy — 8 days ago

How to cheat the Erdtree: The hidden rules behind the rebirth through the Rune of the Unborn

I didn't originally intend to post this, as the theory is still unfinished. However, seeing the recent interest in the Rune of the Unborn, I figured this was a great opportunity to ask a question that's been nagging me for a long time. Perhaps we can piece the rest of this theory together as a community.

The Rune of the Unborn is the rune of an unborn demigod that possesses the power to grant rebirth. To understand the logic behind this rebirth process, we first need to understand how life and fate operate under the current Order.

https://preview.redd.it/j7fxd6fkms9h1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=cd026068474fa4ebc727edb05b536465df943d19

Because the Rune of Death was sealed, the cycle of life and death is now handled by the Erdtree, with souls returning to it after people die. This is directly connected to fate. Destined Death once guaranteed that everyone's ultimate fate was inevitable death. Now, when we defeat demigods, their remembrances are hewn into the Erdtree. Since the Erdtree controls life and fate, it naturally records the fact of a demigod's death. I suspect it similarly controls and records who is born. I believe we can duplicate remembrances at the Nameless Mausoleums because the deaths of the soulless demigods inside weren't hewn into the Erdtree, allowing us to "cheat" the Erdtree into thinking it was Morgott, Godrick, or whoever else who died.

https://preview.redd.it/xyieo65mms9h1.png?width=3840&format=png&auto=webp&s=6689d5191f88122bd2ab54c31c60967976156e46

There was a child who was supposed to be born. Their fate, hewn into the Erdtree, stated that his or her life should have started. However, for some unknown reason, it never did. Therefore, similar to the nameless demigods, another person can cheat the Erdtree by being reborn in place of this unborn demigod.

https://preview.redd.it/9z41kbhnms9h1.png?width=1600&format=png&auto=webp&s=d8ce7978e9142e6a48d383f0b4d2d23c22c70378

The description of the Rune of the Unborn states that it allows one to "perfect" rebirth. However, more often than not, we see imperfect beings after they go through this process. The effects an imperfect rebirth has on people are very similar to the "illness" afflicting the Albinaurics: a reduced lifespan and the loss of their legs.

https://preview.redd.it/sz99d0uoms9h1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=6ed11ba69d963815eca2176766fc1861334266cf

Yet, we, the Tarnished, can be reborn without any negative consequences. How is that possible? At first, I thought the key was the Larval Tear. Rennala rebirths her juvenile scholars over and over again, and I highly doubt she has a bottomless supply of Larval Tears. This theory would hold up perfectly if it weren't for Boc. We do give him a Larval Tear, yet he still dies shortly after, which means the true difference lies elsewhere. Perhaps a shortened lifespan isn't the consequence of lacking a Larval Tear, but the loss of one's legs is.

The Larval Tear

A Larval Tear is a kernel of life that straddles the line between the living and the inanimate. This fact is stated time and again across all variations of the item in Elden Ring and Nightreign, meaning it must play a central role in how it grants perfect rebirth.

https://preview.redd.it/cm5yzc9qms9h1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=cac4aa68d2a3ef0fae506089b56babedbf85e252

A Larval Tear is the core of a Silver Tear; however, Albinaurics are created through a very similar process. While we don't know the exact process behind the creation of Albinaurics, we know that celestial dew—collected on night-tinged leaves that absorbed the fate of the stars—is involved. Their blood is white, and their very name means "silver," so silver certainly played a part in their creation. The origin of their disability likely lies in the fact that they themselves straddle the living and the inanimate; they shouldn't exist, yet they do.

https://preview.redd.it/ziz6yplrms9h1.png?width=1856&format=png&auto=webp&s=97cd70d197f2155aedbbbb2d7507b4d260c913cd

Evidently, the way to cure this illness is by replacing their silver blood with ordinary red blood. When you travel to Mohgwyn Palace, you find Albinaurics summoning giant skeletons. They do this by blowing into their clubs like horns. But wait, don't Albinaurics lack voices? I would argue that they gained their voices the moment they absorbed the cursed red blood. You might think the Albinaurics were simply misled by Mohg, but there is a highly practical reason for them to follow him instead of Miquella: Mohg offers them a way to replace their white blood. This white blood is the exact reason they are persecuted by other societies in the Lands Between and considered impure—even by the Knights of the Cuckoo, whose own practices are considered heretical by the Golden Order.

https://preview.redd.it/g4hdg37xms9h1.png?width=2158&format=png&auto=webp&s=7a1483fdc50ae773ab250fe9c9743b27b96787a9

>"The Knights of the Cuckoos do declare. Behold, thy defiled blood. Unlike any humor that flows in our grand realm."

But if the Larval Tear is the reason for the Albinaurics' imperfection, how can it allow for our perfect rebirth? Beings reborn without one must end up straddling the living and the inanimate themselves. However, if it isn't red blood that they lack, they must lack something else fundamental to living beings.

One element of the Larval Tear is the celestial dew, which contains the fate of the stars. This fate must be what makes the tears not just inanimate pieces of silver, but partially living organisms. Thus, in the world of Elden Ring, the components required to be considered a true living being are not just a body and a soul, but also fate. Larval Tears offer a way to create new living beings who, although imperfect, were created outside the soul-recycling system managed by the Erdtree. Because of this, the Erdtree doesn't "know" about these fates.

The next explanation is not ideal, but I cannot think of a better way to explain how Larval Tears are mechanically used. If you have a better idea that uses the concept of straddling the living and inanimate to perfect rebirth, let me know!

I believe that before you can be reborn, the fate of your previous identity must be hewn into the Erdtree, and your soul must be recycled. People who are reborn without a Larval Tear lose their original fates/souls while retaining their living physical bodies and red blood, forcing them to live imperfect lives similar to the Albinaurics. When you use a Larval Tear, you sacrifice it, offering it to the Erdtree in place of your own fate. Because the Tear was created outside of the Erdtree's Order, it acts as a dummy fate, allowing you to successfully cheat the system. We actually see this concept with the Sacrificial Twig, which acts as a substitute offering so you don't lose your runes upon death.

https://preview.redd.it/ysn97n40ns9h1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=08601c1d00f7f30b45e3b79e7e349a83f370ab31

However, beings reborn with a Larval Tear can clearly still be short-lived. The key difference between them and us might lie in the Grace of the Erdtree. Grace is what makes the Tarnished immortal, reviving us over and over again. You might be able to cheat the Erdtree for a short while using a Tear, but if you don't possess Grace, it seems the lie is quickly uncovered, and the Erdtree reclaims what belongs to it: your soul.

Radagon

Long ago, Marika was in conflict with the Gloam-Eyed Queen. Marika wasn't satisfied with a mere thousand-year voyage—she needed to be eternal. So, once the GEQ was defeated, Marika established a new Order: one where she was not only the Eternal God, but the one true god.

As the husband of Rennala of Caria, the red-haired Radagon studied sorcery; later, as the husband of Queen Marika, he studied incantations. Thus did the hero aspire to be complete. Radagon spent his life striving for perfection. He struggled with a severe inferiority complex, hating his own red hair. So, if he was suddenly given a chance to be reborn, what would he want to be reborn into?

What happens if you stand before the Rune of the Unborn and say, "I want to be a god," but the rules of the world dictate there can only be one god? We haven't seen characters in the base game be reborn into entirely different entities. Usually, they just change their physical appearance or age. However, Nightreign established that you can be reborn into another person, as Wylder was reborn into Heolstor. It wasn't just a visual metamorphosis of Wylder's body; he wished to become the Nightlord, and so he became him. At the end of his questline, Wylder is Heolstor, just like Radagon is Marika.

https://preview.redd.it/izzgasm3ns9h1.png?width=2142&format=png&auto=webp&s=68d9918deadf77dab55f0192bc017c02982cd9cb

The Illness of Miquella and Malenia

The term 宿痾 (shukua) is used in only a few places in the Japanese text of the game, and its primary meaning is "chronic illness." It is used to describe the condition of the Albinaurics, as well as the two children of Marika and Radagon. Notably, it is also used as a synonym for the Dung Eater's Seedbed Curse, describing it as a "chronic illness" of a corpse. But how can a corpse have a chronic illness? This makes sense if we translate shukua as a genetic condition. When the Dung Eater plants the curse into a corpse, he wants that person to be reborn outside the Erdtree system. When this reborn person eventually has children, those children will inherit the curse, spreading it further. What is this if not a genetic condition? It is the exact same for the Albinaurics, who possess their disability from birth, dictated by their origins. This logic applies to Miquella and Malenia, whose frailty is also described with shukua in the Japanese text.

https://preview.redd.it/xjatuox4ns9h1.png?width=1327&format=png&auto=webp&s=a642ae6ceaa98a696eb79de5a586207d77a074cb

It is heavily suspected that Miquella's legs are non-functional. He is shown riding side-saddle on Torrent in the promo art. He is sitting and praying in the Radahn cutscene, and hangs onto Radahn's shoulders during the fight. He is similarly shown sitting while watering the Haligtree in an unused cutscene, and is seated in all of his statue depictions. However, his legs are not fading or withering away, which hints that his condition is not quite as severe as that of the Albinaurics.

https://preview.redd.it/06yk0ie6ns9h1.png?width=1296&format=png&auto=webp&s=865235d4b22feba422f4f29f56af6b25cc590117

Radagon may have been reborn imperfectly. But, because he then had children with a healthy Marika, this imperfection was diluted, and its strength was reduced in their offspring.

The Big Question

Ultimately, what role do you think the Larval Tear actually plays in the rebirth process? And why does Boc still meet a tragic end shortly after using one, while our Tarnished comes out perfectly fine? I'd love to hear your thoughts and alternative theories!

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u/SolidAlloy — 9 days ago

Struggling to understand the rules of spirits and physical bodies in Elden Ring and Nightreign

Both games hint at astral bodies or spirits existing outside of their physical bodies, but then use those spirits in a very physical context. Let me explain, starting with a few Nightreign examples. This post contains Nightreign spoilers!

In Nightreign, Nightfarers are spirits, minds brought to the Roundtable Hold while their physical bodies remain in the outside world. Aside from contextual clues, the Iron Menial literally travels to the outside world to attend to a mortally injured Wylder.

However, at the end of his questline, Wylder uses a Silver Tear to be reborn. In the main game, Silver Tears are used on complete, physical bodies for rebirth. Even if we assume a Silver Tear can be used on a spirit body, Wylder doesn't become transparent like the Nightfarers do in the ending cutscene. Instead, he falls to the ground as if it were his actual physical body.

https://preview.redd.it/wz5oo8spj09h1.png?width=2338&format=png&auto=webp&s=f8bf556bbb38d39fd8a69a4096926f2eb8d3b6e0

If that point doesn't sound solid, let's look at Scholar. He is trapped in a crystal, and Undertaker takes his glintstone core. The act of being physically trapped in a crystal is not typically something spirits experience; it happens to physical bodies. Even if we assume these specific crystals can trap spirits, a glintstone core is a physical object placed into a body to house a person's soul. If what is trapped in the Roundtable Hold is already just a soul, why on earth would that soul have a physical glintstone core inside it that contains another soul? It doesn't make any sense.

https://preview.redd.it/twd5qwfrj09h1.png?width=1308&format=png&auto=webp&s=2853386efbe2b0fb7eb8cc2fa30a4d6b3b59f1d2

Moving on to Elden Ring, the Land of Shadow is a physical location we can travel to. Miquella's physical body is withered and contained within a cocoon. We can assume that separating his mind/soul from his physical body is how he managed to reach the sealed Realm of Shadow. However, we later find out he left physical parts of his body at different crosses throughout the realm. These are actual body parts, not just fragments of his soul. There is literal blood at the crosses, and we see his undivided astral body during the Radahn fight. Did he create a whole new physical body while inside the cocoon?

https://preview.redd.it/5s50fwosj09h1.png?width=4663&format=png&auto=webp&s=b3fea3eafe6d0dd84094a6a4a3b235b1aeb977e8

Is this just reckless storytelling? Is it similar to how time was convoluted in Dark Souls, where we couldn't draw logical conclusions because literally anything could happen in any order across a multiverse? Or is there some hidden logic here, and I'm just being too quick to criticize Miyazaki for prioritizing vibes over logic?

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u/SolidAlloy — 13 days ago

What is this rock formation on the sides of the columns at the Erdtree entrance?

I noticed these formations on the sides of the columns in the arena just before the Erdtree entrance.

https://preview.redd.it/a7k8to2svt8h1.png?width=1720&format=png&auto=webp&s=b39d6f04a41664750795ea37480d6c689e07d88d

At first, I thought this was the exposed internal rock of the columns—some kind of stalagmite that was encased in bricks, since we see stalagmites with a similar structure in the game's caves:

https://preview.redd.it/4sahsunvvt8h1.png?width=439&format=png&auto=webp&s=e80db50a25935280db43cdc348d12e03f559c4ff

However, it actually looks like this material is sitting on top of the bricks.

https://preview.redd.it/oo8nqmoxvt8h1.png?width=831&format=png&auto=webp&s=b0295827ff10c757ffbe5406d4bd82f2bef42542

https://preview.redd.it/6nwy6uczvt8h1.png?width=535&format=png&auto=webp&s=a23984c22805c99fd3de0325efa5f96366ad2f0e

It looks like wax that melted down the sides of the columns due to extreme heat, possibly after the first burning of the Erdtree. However, its color isn't yellow like the wax used to seal the windows of the buildings in Leyndell. Instead, it looks more like rock or clay.

It might also be related to the material used to seal the entrance to the Erdtree:

https://preview.redd.it/a6as82d1wt8h1.png?width=1986&format=png&auto=webp&s=bd33614fe88f8f973a861c28501a0e94a811fcfe

You can see that the columns at the entrance were built first. They have the same decorations as the columns in the arena itself. However, at some point, the entrance was sealed, featuring a relief of the Elden Ring. The cross pattern in the bottom left corner might hint that the seal was crafted during Radagon's era. The seal appears to be made of rock, judging by the stone chipping on the sides. The detailed relief suggests that the seal was made from the outside during a time of peace—it wasn't done hastily. Since Marika and Radagon used to make public appearances, specifically to pose for paintings and statues, I think this seal was created just before the Shattering.

The Erdtree thorns grow behind the seal, never over it. This hints at two possibilities:

  • Radagon created the thorns after the stone seal was broken open by someone.
  • Radagon created the thorns while the seal was still intact.

This might tell the story of why there is a spear in Marika's abdomen. But can the molten rock on the sides of the columns tell us anything more about this event?

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u/SolidAlloy — 14 days ago

Documenting all cases of special purposes for left/right eyes

I'm trying to collect all the cases where a left or right eye looks a certain way or has a special function. Let me know if I forgot anything.

This post contains Nightreign spoilers!

Left Eye

Melina's sealed eye is connected to Destined Death and the GEQ (Gloam-Eyed Queen).

https://preview.redd.it/lirbfmufcf8h1.png?width=1536&format=png&auto=webp&s=658bd008d2ef77e68a2f336f184e7db6432d6ccd

Giant skeletons connected to Deathrite Birds shoot ghostflame beams out of their left eyes:

https://preview.redd.it/gz75ab3icf8h1.png?width=721&format=png&auto=webp&s=d65a97cbcd2228e34f04cf62ad5672491ef8b5aa

Blaidd's left eye is semi-closed.

https://preview.redd.it/xzj5hitjcf8h1.png?width=2400&format=png&auto=webp&s=c1a800b2a10d60e1de8ac226abb80ede9fd969d2

Mohg's left eye is gouged out by his horn. This piercing may have been the moment he saw the Formless Mother.

https://preview.redd.it/cho6po5mcf8h1.png?width=1600&format=png&auto=webp&s=1a370ded87675a13ca56158900877779d6efcae7

Godrick's left eye is semi-closed.

https://preview.redd.it/ie4j2klncf8h1.png?width=335&format=png&auto=webp&s=b7937eab057a8f11b1062089e4ff87a61d590a58

The Mother's corpse in the Shaman Village has its left eye semi-closed or completely closed.

https://preview.redd.it/8khpuxyocf8h1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=ab2226fcd74838bc86ab108daf5e27ee76c79d35

Vyke doesn't actually have the Flame of Frenzy glowing in his eyes on his character model, but if this is a mistake on the developers' end, the burn marks indicate it would be in his left eye:

https://preview.redd.it/fi8iqjjqcf8h1.png?width=3840&format=png&auto=webp&s=8dce06d11c75ebacebc1d623bd456fd8dcf2bc36

Midra's left eye is injured/closed:

https://preview.redd.it/mvq6hf5tcf8h1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=95bca2545783a1a1ffe15310383aba50cab66c16

Credit to u/poopcult for the following ones:

Troll: Left eye is semi-closed.

https://preview.redd.it/mj6loekxcf8h1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=b211626dea9050d8c4e70bc4a2d1e2b4c68430b3

Fell God depiction:

https://preview.redd.it/39r5gi3zcf8h1.png?width=578&format=png&auto=webp&s=7193d5b886a774562390a3a35a10394630d3612d

Erdtree sprout statue:

https://preview.redd.it/aiakt5f0df8h1.png?width=558&format=png&auto=webp&s=64abb433de3ea8278fd3a82639c433d5645f36bb

Right Eye

The Black Blade Kindred's right eye glows red, which, along with its red attacks, hints at traces of the Rune of Death imbued within.

https://preview.redd.it/st6un0a5df8h1.png?width=3840&format=png&auto=webp&s=ed9fdd7e86db34690ad2e5770c3f269c1b2fc147

At the end of Ironeye's questline, his right eye starts glowing with Night.

https://preview.redd.it/q3070oj6df8h1.png?width=636&format=png&auto=webp&s=618eefe6d3be9db3f3d5d09ff43dc8fd03b877b1

The Grafted Scion covers his right eye when he screams. This seems to be an involuntary action, as if he suddenly feels a pain so strong that he forgets he's in the middle of a fight. His scream is also otherworldly. He actually has voice lines, and his normal voice is that of a young boy. Do the souls of the victims grafted onto him cause him this pain?

https://preview.redd.it/fswp2ki8df8h1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=fb15b73973e68813dcc117b10d77fcff5a64bc13

The Ancient Dynast has an injury in his right eye.

https://preview.redd.it/r3j55axbdf8h1.png?width=155&format=png&auto=webp&s=b1baabb3c3c28b1a1f678025f247e8753882cff9

Morgott's right eye is closed due to a nodule growth.

https://preview.redd.it/orveb93fdf8h1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=f1fcff243efa7aeeab2a7716d811274e192744dc

The Curseblade's right eye is non-functional. This might be the reason for their failure to become tutelary deities.

https://preview.redd.it/n2bjho7jdf8h1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=2b1447035f206911ae47e6b04c9e499d6c1a44d5

Mixed

The right eye of Ranni's doll is sealed and connected to her spirit, while her spirit form is connected to the doll through its left eye.

https://preview.redd.it/kf1rephndf8h1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=c294152631f74d2e83fd6ef965718532fa937fe0

Messmer's left eye is closed, while his right eye is replaced with an Iris of Grace. The same holds true for the Base Serpent he turns into.

https://preview.redd.it/nlurl5ncef8h1.png?width=2022&format=png&auto=webp&s=6676cd683a42d828bd621a5f5a54ef9b1a108b63

For the two-faced gargoyle, the right eye of the main face is purple, while the left eye is missing entirely, replaced by the grafting of the second face. This may be related to the glowing red right eye of the Black Gargoyle, indicating the source of their power. The image for this is at the top, as it didn't fit in the main body of the post.

Miscellaneous

Within the Shaman lineage, a semi-closed left eye seems to be a genetic trait. However, it doesn't show up in all descendants, nor is it the trait responsible for identifying Empyreans. It also appears frequently outside of the Shaman lineage.

  • Characters of Shaman lineage who certainly have it: The Shaman Mother, Godrick, and Messmer. (Blaidd also has it—although he is not of the Shaman lineage, he is Ranni's half-brother).
  • Characters who supposedly have/had it: Ranni, Melina, Mohg, and Miquella (based on the fact that he only disposed of one eye, and we see him with both eyes closed during Radahn's fight).
  • Characters who do not have it: Gostoc (supposed son of Godrick), the Grafted Scions (Godrick's lineage), Morgott, Godwyn, and Marika/Radagon (based on their statues).
u/SolidAlloy — 16 days ago

The Story of Heolstor and the Coming of Night: Mysterious Connections to Miquella and the Full Timeline

In this post, I'll first share some discoveries I haven't seen anyone else point out, and then suggest a full timeline—starting with Heolstor obtaining the Rune of Night and ending with the end cutscene.

Heolstor and Miquella

There is an item in the game that only has a name and an image, with no explicit story attached: the Giant's Cradle Grail.

https://preview.redd.it/tzmg5jt8iu7h1.png?width=508&format=png&auto=webp&s=a0d5b772a206763e75cf647d5404d10a43b073cd

I've seen people theorize about a connection between this tree depiction and the Fire Giants. However, there is a much more obvious connection, and we don't have to reach into the base game's lore to find it. The tree depicted features the colors of Night—an aesthetic never associated with the Fire Giants in the base game. We do, however, know of a Night-themed giant in Nightreign: the Night Giant seen in the ending cutscene:

https://preview.redd.it/9avubm6diu7h1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=0550bee12c2ac976e15eda91d34bc69b56b011f2

Since the giant is made of wood, it makes perfect sense that a tree would be its cradle. Although we don't see a Night Tree in-game, we have evidence that it existed in the past and served this purpose. I believe it was destroyed or discarded after the giant fully grew, and the tree was no longer needed.

SmoughTown suggested the giant was created by the Cutting-Gifted tribe as a way to delay the Night and cheat the gods. However, I don't think this is the case. The Cutting-Gifted tribe is already associated with a different tree: the Spirit Shelter. This wooden giant, grown from the Night Tree, is clearly the creation of Heolstor.

What was its purpose? The ending cutscene might give us the answer: we see golden particles traveling through the Roundtable Hold and dispersing from it.

https://preview.redd.it/zbcjpo0iiu7h1.png?width=2258&format=png&auto=webp&s=d48667325a72a878c2871298079ba14b7f99986e

These particles are most likely the souls of the Nightfarers bound to the Hold. We actually see our character turning into a spirit, and then into these particles, at the start of the cutscene.

https://preview.redd.it/ybsfc3ljiu7h1.png?width=1027&format=png&auto=webp&s=6d72349d74550172980ef348180b81899fda5af1

Although it looks like one character dissolves into multiple particles, I think that's just a visual effect, and each particle represents one soul. They wander the halls of the Roundtable Hold, saying goodbye to the place they spent so much time in, before returning to their bodies.

However, there is one specific golden particle that travels toward the wooden giant and is absorbed by it. Only then does the giant come alive and walk away. I believe this golden particle is Heolstor's soul. Heolstor's original body is gone, but he prepared a wooden homunculus to use as a vessel to come back to life—much like how Sellen transferred her soul to a new body using glintstone.

Heolstor's boss fight consists of two phases. In the first, we fight a shape covered in bandages bearing golden script. This is clearly inspired by the Japanese practice of ofuda (or fūin), where paper talismans with inscriptions are attached to an object to seal a curse or evil spirit.

https://preview.redd.it/4r0c52lyiu7h1.png?width=850&format=png&auto=webp&s=5f621f377ac9610b0c87f0cf9ab6f8ebae1bc498

https://preview.redd.it/lbyvs6xliu7h1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=4944ff81373a6a7500a27238a0eecf6666257b2e

These bandages are meant to hold the power of Night within. When we defeat the Shape of Night, we see the Night breaking out of the bandages and spreading. I don't think Heolstor covered himself in these bindings, as his explicit goal is to spread the Night, not contain it. Instead, it was the Cutting-Gifted tribe who placed these magic seals on Heolstor in a desperate attempt to hold back the Night. In fact, the inscriptions on the bandages are written in the Language of Light—the secret script of the Two Fingers.

But how was the Cutting-Gifted tribe able to get close enough to Heolstor to cover him in bandages? He must have been sleeping or otherwise immobilized. This is where the wooden giant and the connections to Miquella come into play. We all remember this location from the base game:

https://preview.redd.it/vev72grgju7h1.png?width=1158&format=png&auto=webp&s=79e3a9e5d4b29b6e09f622252642616840412ee1

Miquella tried to metamorphose his body while watering the Haligtree with his blood. During this process, a hollow wooden shape of Miquella formed at the base of the tree. If Heolstor underwent a similar process, it explains everything: why he was immobilized when the tribe sealed him, how the wooden giant was created, and why the tree is called the Giant's Cradle.

Heolstor didn't turn into Night essence overnight, nor did he spread the Night the moment he became the Nightlord. Instead, he cultivated it, slowly dissolving his body into pure Night. The Cutting-Gifted tribe didn't anticipate the Night because they received an oracle about Heolstor. Rather, once Heolstor actually began his metamorphosis, the tribe realized the repercussions of him completing it and started preparing. This also explains why the wooden giant is a visual copy of Heolstor—it was born through the same botanical process as Miquella's wooden husk.

Is it a coincidence that the only original body part Heolstor has left is his hand? It invokes the imagery of Miquella's arm sticking out of his cocoon. Though Miquella's physical body remained inside the cocoon, and his sticking-out hand was his right, while Heolstor's remaining hand is his left. This could just be a visual callback, but it might also hint that Heolstor's metamorphosis was interrupted—just as Mohg interrupted Miquella's by cutting the cocoon open. Perhaps this interruption is the only reason the Night hasn't already absorbed the entire Lands Between.

https://preview.redd.it/xtexk8gjju7h1.png?width=1928&format=png&auto=webp&s=262dabf15815b73707b9c3fff39de707c8fc1491

The Cutting-Gifted Tribe and the Spirit Shelter

Let's move on to the Cutting-Gifted tribe. Besides holding back the Night with magic bandages, they also created the Spirit Shelter. Its name speaks for itself: its purpose is to house the spirits of warriors capable of fighting the Nightlords.

Because our main hub is the Roundtable Hold, we can deduce how it exists in Nightreign using information from the base game. In Elden Ring, the Roundtable Hold is a remembrance hewn into the Erdtree, much like the fates of the demigods. When the Erdtree burns, the Hold burns with it, causing Hewg to lose his memories. The Roundtable Hold is a conceptual space tied to and powered by the Erdtree. As for who originally created it, we get a surprising hint from one of Miyazaki's interviews:

>The Roundtable Hold is, in a way, a place far removed from the world, though it's modeled after the Fortified Manor in Leyndell, with its state and power originating from the Erdtree. This is why when the Erdtree burns, the Roundtable Hold burns as well. As for the reason behind the Roundtable Hold's existence, while there is lore that answers this question, it's something we decided not to touch upon in this game, so I won't be revealing it here either. However, it's safe to say that the Two Fingers plays a key role.

Miyazaki doesn't explicitly state that the Two Fingers created the Hold, but they are clearly an anchor and a key functional element of it. Since the Erdtree no longer exists in Nightreign, the only tree capable of housing the Hold is the Spirit Shelter. But we don't see the Two Fingers there. Why is that?

This brings us to the Divine Tower. In the base game, these structures are not associated with trees. They were originally connected to the worship of meteors, and only later housed the Two Fingers on their summits. While some theorize there has always been a secret connection between the Towers and trees, I disagree. Instead, I think this specific Divine Tower is unique in its connection to a tree—not because of ancient meteor worship, but because of the Two Fingers.

When the Cutting-Gifted tribe started searching for a way to shelter spirits to fight the Night, they came up with the idea to recreate the Roundtable Hold. Although we don't know the exact ritual, we know it requires a Two Fingers. So, they allied with the Two Fingers sitting atop the local Divine Tower, and thus, the Spirit Shelter was born. We know the tribe was allied with the Two Fingers because they used the Language of Light on the magic seals covering Heolstor. Another visual clue connecting the Two Fingers to the Spirit Shelter are the two hand-like shapes visible if we remove the other branches of the tree:

https://preview.redd.it/s7g1s5cmju7h1.png?width=1785&format=png&auto=webp&s=bd6f7d265963b814e7b50a2319850a7da038786c

As to why there is no physical Two Fingers inside Nightreign's version of the Hold, I can only theorize that they either sacrificed themselves or are hidden away. However, we do know what the new anchor is. Their role has been taken over by the Roundtable Hold priestess, who is bound to the space in the same way the Two Fingers were in the base game.

In the original game, even as the Hold burned, most inhabitants, like us, could freely leave, while others, like Roderika, chose to stay. The Two Fingers, on the other hand, physically couldn't leave. Using this evidence, I have two theories regarding the identity of the Formless Master:

  • The Two Fingers: they are hiding somewhere, or perhaps still sitting on top of the physical tower rather than manifesting inside the Hold itself.
  • The Greater Will: the priestess has become a direct replacement for the Two Fingers as its mouthpiece.

Notice how the priestess's voice drops and sounds male when conveying the words of the Formless Master, exactly like how Enia's tone shifted when translating for the Two Fingers.

The Timeline of Events

Based on all this information, here is a summary of the timeline:

  1. Heolstor becomes the Nightlord. His plan is to grow a new tree, sleep at its roots, and cultivate two things: the Night within himself and the Night Giant.
  2. The Cutting-Gifted tribe understands Heolstor's goal and seals the Night within him, keeping it contained. However, this only delays the coming of the Night and doesn't stop it. So, their next plan is to grow the Spirit Shelter using Erdtree grafts.
  3. They speak to the Two Fingers atop the tower and receive instructions on how they can create another world tree and cheat a god. The Two Fingers become the foundation of the Roundtable Hold, to which the spirits of the Nightfarers are guided.
  4. However, for some reason, the Two Fingers cannot be the anchor themselves. Perhaps they are sacrificed in the process, or they perish from old age. A priestess is needed to become the new anchor of the Roundtable Hold and receive instructions from the Greater Will.
  5. When the Night is defeated, Heolstor's soul is absorbed by the wooden giant, and he walks away.
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u/SolidAlloy — 19 days ago

[Nightreign] The Meaning of Adel's "Baron" Title

Adel, Baron of Night, has the unusual title of Baron, which grabbed the attention of a lot of players because it doesn't match the creature's image. It is a mindless dragon whose only desire is to devour everything it encounters. Furthermore, there doesn't seem to be any noble hierarchy within the Nightlord ranks. This prompted some to speculate that the name could be a pun—for example, noting the similarity between "Baron" and "barren."

While this might be the case, let's look at the Japanese word used for Adel's title. It is 爵 (shaku), whose primary meaning is peerage. It is a kanji that rarely stands by itself, and is usually joined by other characters to denote specific titles like 公爵 (Duke), 子爵 (Viscount), or 男爵 (Baron). However, there is another, archaic meaning of 爵: the jue, an ancient three-legged Chinese wine pitcher.

https://preview.redd.it/9krac2aoif7h1.png?width=259&format=png&auto=webp&s=7af3eec4a8573e16cf598492bb2651fe8074032a

https://preview.redd.it/k94agl2pif7h1.png?width=206&format=png&auto=webp&s=208a3e153713c43ba9da06af4ce76d0dd7ec740e

This brings me to this render of Adel, showcasing one of its most common poses with its jaws pointed upwards.

https://preview.redd.it/jvdemrjwif7h1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=1a7097d9ed28a559a7a1705348cbac6edcfa3e0b

So, its title in Japanese might be a visual pun, and the design might have been inspired by a funny-looking pitcher, which also served as a cool-sounding noble title for a Nightlord.

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u/SolidAlloy — 21 days ago

What are the square platforms along the Gold Road?

We can find these square platforms along the Altus Plateau section of the Gold Road. What was the inspiration for them, and what function did they serve? They seem too low to have been outposts.

https://preview.redd.it/t5x5c5gjym6h1.png?width=2455&format=png&auto=webp&s=1654f91411d11feb05cac7f094636803072215a8

For those unaware, the Gold Road is the highway spanning almost the entirety of the Lands Between. It is named for its paving tiles, which depict the Erdtree symbol. The road seems heavily inspired by real-world Roman roads, many of which have survived for thousands of years and remain functional today.

https://preview.redd.it/1qby3kslym6h1.png?width=1027&format=png&auto=webp&s=5e3e9fb5d828c47757f3ddddaed586e39a284878

However, the Altus Plateau section is unique because it features a massive complex of columns and statues depicting Erdtree knights, female warriors, and the Erdtree sapling.

https://preview.redd.it/p9cm31kqym6h1.png?width=1334&format=png&auto=webp&s=477ae17a2c4a54e05ac7e892c72174dad89ee6c3

Taking all these details into account, this specific section of the road appears to be inspired by the Via Appia—the main highway of ancient Rome.

https://preview.redd.it/7hhxp6rrym6h1.png?width=2842&format=png&auto=webp&s=3187b9f04c81a069d0687aa7b6172c745e42f4e7

This brings me to my first point: these square platforms might be the remnants of ancient mausoleums that once lined the road. Because Roman law forbade burial within the city limits, the Via Appia became a road of remembrance where elite families built grand mausoleums to honor their dead.

https://preview.redd.it/if0fh7wsym6h1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=99d4a96b6ccb6af86abcf53a8e7288b0e120fca8

Here is what some of those real-world ruins look like today:

https://preview.redd.it/49jdqwhuym6h1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=df3e80b38ca5f7c8a302c6c261557ddfa2bf1e40

https://preview.redd.it/tew15ybvym6h1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=f722c1f9a92adde9ae2563c0f8af16b4bd653eed

While none of the real ruins are perfectly square with all their walls entirely erased, they may have served as a functional inspiration.

That said, there are real-world structures that look much closer to what we see in the game: temple podiums. These are the foundations of Roman temples, where the walls and columns have completely broken down over time. However, unlike the mausoleums, temple podiums don't have a specific historical connection to the Via Appia or Roman roads in general.

https://preview.redd.it/y8q5metwym6h1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=ef3b586cc0d95dab7ef190b59da258ed1d55babb

Many players have also noticed a visual similarity between these square platforms near Leyndell and the fallen ruins of Farum Azula:

https://preview.redd.it/rfzhcgmxym6h1.png?width=2103&format=png&auto=webp&s=e2781adee4b660711e625193a92d8a51a89847e4

However, this similarity seems to be purely visual. While the Altus Plateau platforms were deliberately built alongside the highway, the Farum Azula platforms are simply structural pieces of a ruined city. We don't know their original placement or context; they could have been foundations for standard buildings. Yet, if we remember that Farum Azula is effectively a massive mausoleum city, a functional connection becomes much more likely, reinforcing the theory that the Altus platforms were also once mausoleums.

Bonus: What are the miniature buildings on the Sellia columns?

The columns lining the road to Sellia are identical to the ones standing near Leyndell that feature Erdtree warriors. There is a theory that the Sellia columns actually predate the ones in Altus, as the Nox heavily influenced the architecture of the early Erdtree empire.

https://preview.redd.it/zg9wuu0zym6h1.png?width=337&format=png&auto=webp&s=158521031332b53ff2a18a9bc4e77c98eaa6298d

The real-world inspiration for the miniature buildings on top of these columns is likely the aedicula—a small Roman shrine. In antiquity, these shrines were built to house household gods and deities meant to protect the home.

https://preview.redd.it/hvv3iw10zm6h1.png?width=500&format=png&auto=webp&s=9ace2d834c4ec5455707c4a05ef878ad530797d7

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u/SolidAlloy — 25 days ago

Let's discuss the depiction on the Tree Sentinel shield

I took a close look at the Tree Sentinel shield because its imagery could hold lore significance. You can faintly make out two figures on it even in-game, but who exactly are they? Here is a close-up screenshot of the shield:

https://preview.redd.it/vduax4x1tg6h1.png?width=1182&format=png&auto=webp&s=6f531044f0efb3e8992a08696390e0c40c9a5814

First, what might look like a spear at a glance is actually just a scratch. Instead, the engraving depicts a knight leaning on a sword with one hand while picking a fruit from a tree with the other. He is picking this fruit for the lady sitting opposite him. There are two immediate possibilities for their identities:

  • The Tree Sentinel and the female warrior depicted on the columns with a spear
  • Godfrey and Marika

The clothing worn by the figures doesn't match the Age of Plenty era, which draws heavy inspiration from Roman aesthetics:

https://preview.redd.it/kb3xg4qxsg6h1.png?width=1334&format=png&auto=webp&s=94ad244d98afb617c3ac21380d68d686c0bbb7b0

Instead, the garments align closer to the High Medieval or early Renaissance periods. This matches the overall design of the Erdtree Sentinel armor, even though lore suggests these sentinels originate from the Age of Plenty.

The knight on the shield is without a helmet. From what I can discern, he has a beard, long hair, and a crown. This points to him being Godfrey, even if his crown and clothing don't match his in-game model. If this is Godfrey, the lady is almost certainly Marika. This aligns with the lore, given the Erdtree Sentinels' absolute devotion to her. However, we never see Marika wearing garments like these elsewhere.

Could this just be a stock asset since the clothing doesn't match established character designs? Unlikely. The image is present in the official concept art, though with slight differences. For example, the knight holds the sword in the opposite hand. This suggests an artist originally drew the scene, iterated on it, and a 3D modeler meticulously transferred the final version to the in-game asset. My assumption is that the Erdtree Sentinel concept art was completed before Godfrey's final design was locked in, and this engraving reflects an early vision of him.

https://preview.redd.it/cvv0n34vsg6h1.png?width=358&format=png&auto=webp&s=1eca3e4c09b49f4c261b563a55e3fbeadaa68059

What are your thoughts on this?

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u/SolidAlloy — 26 days ago

I made a spreadsheet ranking field bosses based on the time it takes to defeat them

I liked the Runes-to-HP ratio introduced by Mound Maker on YouTube to determine whether it is worth your time to kill certain bosses. It is a solid metric, but it doesn't account for how much some bosses jump around, or those with special kill mechanics like the Flame Chariots. That is why, while practicing against bosses using Boss Arena, I recorded the time it takes to defeat them and calculated the average Runes per Second for each. I also calculated several other metrics, like how much weapon upgrades help and how much time you save by fighting bosses at a higher level.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18fWk4g-FO1GXkZi-cbnmcdI-IWr9OsbLaP4BPF2wRZI/edit?usp=sharing

Here is a short list for reference. The time in this example is measured at level 8 with a blue weapon. You can adjust the character level and weapon tier in the sheet to see the different times and Runes per Second.

https://preview.redd.it/sbor2xh9o86h1.png?width=672&format=png&auto=webp&s=a4b7a65faeff856202507fbd3d1a1ab28c476bef

As you can see, the Runes-to-HP ratio tracks Runes per Second fairly well, with notable outliers like the Flame Chariots. The quirk with the Flame Chariots is that they drop lower in the rankings as your level and weapon improve, simply because the time it takes to kill them via their mechanic is fixed.

Here are the notable conclusions I drew from this data:

  • If you were wondering how efficient it is to kill Flame Chariots, they are on par with minor field bosses during Day 1 if your weapon is blue or lower. Once you acquire a purple weapon or transition into Day 2, it is more efficient to fight a nearby minor boss.
  • The minimum level I would recommend for fighting minor field bosses like the Elder Lion or Hero of Zamor is 2 to 4, depending on the Nightfarer.
  • The minimum level for lesser Formidables, like the Erdtree Avatar and Magma Wyrm, is around 4 to 6.
  • Elite Formidables have the widest spread for minimum recommended levels. For example, I would fight a Tree Sentinel at level 8, a Death Rite Bird at 10 to 12, and a Draconic Tree Sentinel at 10 to 15, depending on the Nightfarer. I calculated these minimum levels without any relics or passives equipped, so as you collect more passives during Day 1, the level threshold will drop.
  • The Grafted Scion and Royal Revenant are the least efficient minor bosses, even worse than highly mobile bosses like the Red Wolf and Night's Cavalry. This isn't a surprise, as some players have already suggested these should be classified as Formidables. You are often better off clearing a few camps instead of fighting them.
  • Unsurprisingly, castle bosses rank higher than their field counterparts. However, they deal more damage, so you should add about 2 levels to the minimum level you would normally use for the field version.
  • Weapon upgrades increase damage by 30%, then 20%, then 20%. This translates almost directly to faster kill times (averaging around a 25% speed increase per upgrade). Fighting a minor boss at level 2 with a blue weapon is just as efficient as fighting it at level 8 with a white weapon.
  • I also did a rough estimation to see if it is worth killing standard trash mobs. It is generally worth doing if they are on your way to the next point of interest during Day 1, but most fall off in value by Day 2. There are a few notable outliers to keep in mind. Golden sheep, crabs, wolves, and wandering nobles are good targets. Glintstone diggers, sorcerers, and skeletal enemies are not worth the time.
  • The Executor's Cursed Blade performs on par with a blue weapon, but once you acquire a purple katana or higher, your main weapon becomes more efficient (unless you are running a guard-counter build). Because of this, the Executor ranks higher than other Nightfarers when everyone is using white or blue weapons, but he falls off if you keep using the Cursed Blade while better weapons are available.

How this data changed my strategy:

  • I head to the closest minor boss right after the starting camp at level 2.
  • After the first minor boss, it is fine to tackle the Erdtree Avatar or Magma Wyrm, but I save the Tree Sentinel, Death Rite Bird, and similar bosses for Day 2.
  • If you want to clear the castle, starting at level 5 is fine, but it is safer to be level 6 or higher for the basement boss. Whether the rooftop boss is worth the time depends entirely on the boss itself. For example, I avoid the Draconic Tree Sentinel on the rooftop if I am playing solo Wylder.
  • Weapon upgrades provide such a massive benefit that if I have runes and a merchant nearby after the starting camp, I will upgrade my default weapon to blue instead of leveling my character from 2 to 3.

I probably won't add any more bosses to the list. I practiced against the ones I wanted to test, extracted the general trends from the data, and verified a few assumptions. There is also a lot of additional information in the spreadsheet that I haven't mentioned here, including character-specific tips for each boss. I recommend Chris Chrass's "Useful Tips" video, though not every piece of advice worked for my playstyle, and I found a few alternative strategies that work better for specific Nightfarers.

I was surprised to see Wylder rank so low on the Nightfarer tier list. It is possible his starting sword is just weak, or his ultimate is strong enough that the developers felt the need to balance it by lowering his base damage. My data here might also be slightly skewed. I learned most of the boss movesets using Wylder before switching to other characters. I gained a lot of general experience along the way, so my recorded timings for Wylder are likely a bit slower than they would be if I re-tested him now.

On the flip side, I was surprised by how strong and consistent the Raider is, especially compared to the Executor and Ironeye, who tend to have more highs and lows. I plan to run him more often now.

Notably, I haven't recorded timings for the Recluse, Undertaker, or Scholar yet, as I haven't practiced with them. I suspect the Recluse's efficiency depends heavily on which seals you find early on. The Undertaker likely sits somewhere between the Raider and Wylder in efficiency, so she is a fine pick if you enjoy her playstyle. I have no idea how the Scholar will perform yet.

P.S. Before anyone mentions how fast they can melt a boss with Rivers of Blood, I know that specific relic setups and weapons change the math completely. That is exactly why I used averages in the spreadsheet. I wrote these tips for the average player looking to make consistent progress. I haven't learned advanced tricks like backflip cancellation tech or rapid weapon-swapping on the Executor. I respect the players who put in the time to master those mechanics, but this data and these tips are not balanced around that level of play.

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u/SolidAlloy — 27 days ago

A Geological Perspective on the Underground Areas of the Lands Between

The Lands Between features extensive underground cavities that serve as the graves of multiple ancient civilizations. How could they have formed, and what real-world geological processes might have inspired George R. R. Martin and Hidetaka Miyazaki? Before you say, "Oh, it's a fantasy world, it's just magic," let me stop you. Fantasy worlds are usually inspired by real phenomena that get exaggerated and transformed to leave us in awe, just like what probably happened to all of you the first time you took the elevator down the Siofra River Well. There is always a real-world anchor, as is the case with every phenomenon in the world of Elden Ring. Now, I must preface this by saying I am not a geologist. I simply went and researched different geological processes that result in underground cavities, so if anyone with expertise has anything to add, I would highly appreciate it.

https://preview.redd.it/um3mftgemn5h1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=356c304d3bd56ddd07d237af1c245e34516e1558

My initial thought was: could a massive flood have caused this somehow? Ainsel and Siofra are clearly inspired by ancient Mesopotamia—a region defined by its two major rivers, which were notorious for regularly flooding nearby cities. In fact, this flooding is the reason we still don't know the location of Akkad, the capital of the Akkadian Empire. However, real-world floods cause massive amounts of mud and clay to deposit and pack tightly together. There is no water-based geological process that would cause giant subterranean cavities to form.

Flood deposits from Mesopotamia from about 3000 B.C.

That being said, the "ire of the Greater Will" invoked by the Nox could have manifested as a flood, considering the corpses we see half-buried in sediment around the Chair-Crypts. The ancient Mesopotamians directly attributed devastating floods to the wrath of their gods, so this historical mythos could serve as the inspiration for this event.

https://preview.redd.it/x8wdk6grmn5h1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=11023dad4a1b1be9b69e6a8d31114d861e7007dc

The next obvious culprit would be a lava-related cataclysm. After all, there are so many things visibly encased in solid rock on the surface: the titan skeletons, the Divine Towers, and the Rauh arches. Could the rivers have slowly carved their way through the hardened lava over time to create these cavities? Unfortunately, no. Basalt, the rock formed from cooled lava, is incredibly hard, and rivers are much more likely to carve a new path around it than break directly through it.

https://preview.redd.it/d2x424cvmn5h1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=058855e0bb1d1090eea344e887db559ce918a941

However, water doesn't necessarily have to break stone for cavities to form within lava. There are natural formations called lava tubes, which occur when lava flows in channels and its outer layers cool down and harden faster than the interior. These tubes can be quite large even on Earth, and you've probably heard of the giant lava tubes on the Moon where humanity is currently planning to build its first lunar colonies.

https://preview.redd.it/m0agtki2nn5h1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=e8f7ac8fc2db3915be3c202b0a5f12f1d6618477

https://preview.redd.it/h4xu8r03nn5h1.png?width=1942&format=png&auto=webp&s=325eb7f166e32f2e49a719b4e341f70620038623

That being said, there are no recorded cases of water spontaneously starting to flow inside these lava tubes, because, again, basalt is too dense to allow springs to seep inside. Furthermore, we know that the Siofra and Ainsel rivers flowed through these same geographical paths before the cataclysm. So, is there a way for a river to reclaim its original path after a massive volcanic eruption? Yes, it is actually possible. When lava flows over an active river, the top forms hard basalt, but underneath remains the old riverbed, which is essentially just a layer of loose river stones and sand. The river's current can erode this loose material away, effectively forming a sub-basalt underground river. Notice how these massive underground cavities only exist along the direct paths of the two rivers, and there are no subterranean areas in places where the Siofra and Ainsel don't flow (barring the Abyssal Woods, which sit at a very low elevation but are not technically underground).

Geologically speaking, there is no way for the surrounding buildings and trees to stay intact during this process. Realistically, they would be completely incinerated or encased in rock. This is where the fantasy aspect comes into play. What if the massive volume of river water instantly evaporated, forming giant, pressurized vapor chambers underneath the lava with no way for the steam to escape? This actually happens in the real world, and the cavities left behind by this trapped vapor are called vesicles. When this happens, there are three possible geological outcomes: First, if there isn't enough pressure for the vapor to break through the lava ceiling, it just forms a large enclosed cavity called a vesicle. Second, if there is moderate pressure, the steam punches narrow vents through the rock, forming spiracles (steam pipes). Finally, if there is a massive amount of water and extreme pressure, a violent steam explosion occurs, leaving behind a pseudo-crater known as a rootless cone.

https://preview.redd.it/3fi5vmgonn5h1.png?width=2048&format=png&auto=webp&s=9f0ff5d5d43b4535d3a457b648a20c5640e4cc4a

Rootless Cone

Of course, in the real world, even "mega-vesicles" are only about 20 cm in size. But in a fantasy setting, we can imagine that these impossibly giant vapor chambers shielded the Uhl architecture and the petrified trees, allowing them to remain intact in a subterranean bubble while the lava flowed continuously overhead. The steam pipes could have been repurposed later into the magical deep wells we use as elevators. As for the Abyssal Woods, it might actually be a giant rootless cone (although visually, it looks more like the surface simply caved in later, rather than resulting from a blowout explosion).

In summary, the mechanical inspiration for the underground cavities in the Lands Between was likely real-life sub-basalt rivers, and the Nox cities themselves might have been conceptually inspired by proposed lunar colonies built inside giant lava tubes. This is a fitting inspiration considering the heavy emphasis on cosmic themes and literal aliens in Elden Ring's lore.

Implications for the Nox and Uhl

I have long suspected that the "ire of the Greater Will" wasn't the literal act of pushing the Nox cities underground and manifesting a ceiling of rock over their heads. The item description mentioning their banishment can alternatively be translated from Japanese as: "The people of Nox, crowned with a false night sky, invoked the ire of the Greater Will in ancient times, and were destroyed deep underground." The Nox practiced the worship of the Night long before any banishment. The false night sky and the Moon of Nokstella are foundational characteristics of their culture. It makes perfect narrative sense if the entire genesis of their culture and religion began with them choosing to settle underground. We also have visual evidence of a massive cataclysm that hit the Nox after they had already built the Chair-Crypts—and it appears to have been a flood. Could that flood have been the true revenge of the Greater Will?

https://preview.redd.it/l9woy46don5h1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=89a13ee1112130739ace45ad4a4e7d26e3e388a0

Unlike the Nox, we know that the Uhl civilization actively grew trees. The petrified trees we see are likely contemporary to their society, meaning the Uhl must have originally lived above ground. At the same time, we see stone arks marking the genesis of their culture. These arks are depicted at the very top of their ancient steles, telling the story of their civilization's beginning. This rules out the notion that these structures were merely stone coffins. But wait, weren't the arks used to survive the lava flood? We see them encased in bedrock on the Cerulean Coast, exactly like the Rauh arches and the titan skeletons. It's possible the arks were used before the lava flood, perhaps marking the nautical arrival of a new race to the Lands Between, who eventually became the Uhl. They left their arks on the shoreline, and those arks later sank into the magma when the Great Flood happened. As for the logistical argument that stone cannot float on water, we should remember the magical stone coffins navigating the Ainsel and Siofra rivers that safely transport the player. In all likelihood, those magical river coffins originally belonged to the Uhl.

https://preview.redd.it/perukenpon5h1.png?width=1000&format=png&auto=webp&s=4cb6cbdfce6f400fb097981c7c201e0e4726e8fb

https://preview.redd.it/eqq72pcqon5h1.png?width=2560&format=png&auto=webp&s=67ee09a6eca3430725f043c4ec37d2ca79349c73

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u/SolidAlloy — 30 days ago

In Defense of the Great Flood and the Great Tree: A Story of the Serpent God and the First Civilizations

Before the release of the DLC, the Tarnished Archaeologist proposed an interesting hypothesis: an ancient builder civilization of titans, whose giant skulls we can observe in Caelid and the Mountaintops of the Giants, built the massive stone arches we see half-buried across the map. According to this theory, a period of heavy meteor bombardment then liquefied the earth, encasing both the titans and their stone structures in lava. While some of the Tarnished Archaeologist's ideas missed the mark, and this specific theory has faced valid criticism (for example, why would titans build arches so tiny compared to their massive size?), the DLC provided clarity. We learned that these structures were actually built by the Rauh civilization, whose inhabitants were much closer in scale to the architecture (ranging from human to small giant size). However, I argue that the core concept of a lava flood still stands. In this post, I will expand upon this idea and correct the flawed aspects of the original theory using new information from the DLC.

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Rauh and the Titans

Before the DLC, we knew of the titans and the Divine Towers, which are closely linked by the architectural similarities between the Forge of the Giants, the towers themselves, and the stone arches. The DLC added a couple more ancient civilizations to the mix: the Rauh and the builders of the Ruined Forges. There are clear links connecting all of them through architecture, golems, and smithing. So, which came first? We can categorize them based on their knowledge of metallurgy. While the Fire Giants of the Mountaintops and the builders of the Ruined Forges possessed advanced smithing technology, Rauh and the titans appear to have been Stone Age societies. However, there are a few hints that Rauh eventually utilized metals:

The Verdigris Discus is made of corroded copper or bronze. This serves as evidence of Rauh's knowledge of rot and their ability to live in balance with it—a topic I will touch upon later.

The Sword of Light and the Sword of Darkness feature more modern designs that bear no resemblance to stone tools, though there is no explicit evidence detailing what materials the blades are made of, and the hilt is surely made of stone.

https://preview.redd.it/t4dwql48p95h1.png?width=1228&format=png&auto=webp&s=17a30f7738518a792faace36c41a98f5aa2d997c

Aside from these exceptions, everything else points to Rauh existing in the Stone Age. The golems they created feature a Jōmon-era rope pottery aesthetic, where rope was pressed into wet clay before it was fired.

https://preview.redd.it/hax0abb9p95h1.png?width=1758&format=png&auto=webp&s=93056f999bacf84d143a1cefb9be697da6c76ec7

Historically, Jōmon pottery was created by a Stone Age society that had no knowledge of metallurgy, not even copper.

Looking at the titans, there is one item specifically attributed to them: the Meteoric Ore Greatsword. Although it functions as a colossal sword for the player, its shape heavily implies it was originally used as an arrowhead by the titans (also known as the Old Gods). Its form perfectly mimics that of Stone Age arrowheads.

https://preview.redd.it/ejjs9cxcp95h1.png?width=1678&format=png&auto=webp&s=4f7f4e267cc41c47d0a23bc6ee20dfa462b0d22c

More importantly, this arrowhead was excavated by the people who built the Ruined Forges; to them, it was already a relic of a bygone era.

Rauh is depicted as a balanced civilization that lived in harmony with nature. They understood the natural role of rot and didn't try to extinguish it with fire. They also understood the dual importance of light and darkness, as evidenced by the aforementioned swords. This parallels Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind, where humanity lost the ancient knowledge of how to live in balance with toxic rot. In Elden Ring, we find very few weapons that exhibit pure white light. Two of them are the Meteoric Ore Greatsword and the Sword of Light. Weapons from all subsequent civilizations emit colored light: golden holy light, or red and yellow lightning. The only other weapon in the game that emits pure white light is the Serpent-Hunter. Incidentally, the Serpent-Hunter features the same octagonal design motif present in Rauh architecture.

https://preview.redd.it/mlklbigep95h1.png?width=1256&format=png&auto=webp&s=9cec06d287c3cc292a42ef372b92fcfa6699ff15

There is also a vital connection between the Forge of the Giants, Rauh, and the titans. The forge stands on Rauh-style octagonal columns, and its massive chains suggest it was once suspended over a giant bonfire. The sheer scale of the forge, combined with the chains implying it was meant to be portable, suggests that only the titans were large enough to build and use it. Following their extinction, the forge became a stationary object, as the Fire Giants of the subsequent era were too small to move it.

Several other elements are pointing to connections between these civilizations, as previously outlined by the user silly-er. Notably, silly-er theorized that Rauh lacked a writing system. However, in Nightreign, we can obtain a golem stake acting as a magical lock, and it clearly has a runic script carved into it.

https://preview.redd.it/6378oydgp95h1.png?width=1636&format=png&auto=webp&s=902198c7d55283e0677ca69685e16fd76d0ad558

In summary, Rauh and the titans (the Old Gods) were likely contemporaries. Both started as Stone Age societies and eventually discovered metallurgy. The Old Gods began with Stone Age arrowheads made of meteoric ore and later built the giant forge, while Rauh began with stone structures and clay golems before eventually discovering verdigris. The descendants of Rauh, who later built the Ruined Forges, appear to have lost their original runic writing system and independently developed a new one: Smithscript. However, they retained older architectural designs, such as the distinct braziers. To them, the excavated titan weapons belonged to a forgotten age, and the titans themselves had passed into myth as gods.

Dragons

Both Rauh’s golems and the titans utilized giant bows. What were they shooting at with such massive arrows? There is a heavy implication that they hunted dragons. Notably, there are absolutely no bird motifs in Rauh or Divine Tower architecture. Dispelling the popular belief that Divine Birds were associated with Rauh, the lore indicates that bird veneration only began with the early Hornsent after they discovered the Rauh ruins. The Divine Bird Warriors were the very first divine warriors of the Hornsent civilization, and their armor is forged from gold—a material Rauh never utilized. The Hornsent developed their divine beast religion shortly after settling the ruins, inspired by the horned animals they found roaming there. Furthermore, the Golem Greatarrows cleverly feature butterfly wings for fletching rather than the bird feathers one would normally expect.

The first creatures to settle the Mountaintops of the Giants, even before the Fire Giants arrived after the Great Flood, were the Ice Dragons. The Fire Giants actually had to conquer the mountaintops from them. Interestingly, Ice Dragons are kin to Bayle, possessing only two hind legs and wings, much like lesser Drakes. This shows that in the immediate aftermath of the cataclysm, Bayle and his brood were already a dominant force. Needless to say, the Ancient Dragons already possessed a long, established history and society by this point in the timeline.

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Serpent

In Elden Ring, the Serpent is a deity whose ultimate goal is to devour the entire world.

Scepter in the shape of a serpent devouring the world.

The Serpent is famously branded as a "traitor to the Erdtree." This implies it was once allied with the Erdtree before committing a grave betrayal. Most likely, this alliance stemmed from the deep cultural connections between the Serpent and the shaman villages. We know shamans lived as far afield as Mount Gelmir, specifically in the Hermit Village.

The shamans practiced a gruesome flaying festival. The act of flaying closely mirrors a snake shedding its skin, a connection heavily hinted at by the massive shed snakeskin found in Bonny Village.

The Serpent would later become closely associated with the Gloam-Eyed Queen. This is evidenced by the Godskins' practice of flaying demigods, the distinct serpentine features of the Godskin Apostles, and the fact that a Godskin Noble actively resides in the Temple of Eiglay on Mount Gelmir. Additionally, the Godskin Swaddling Cloth restores HP on successive attacks—a gameplay mechanic exclusively shared with items associated with the Serpent. Evidently, the Serpent's great "treachery" was supporting the Gloam-Eyed Queen in her bid for godhood.

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Even before the shamans (or perhaps contemporary to them), the ancient serpent religion formed a syncretism with the hawk veneration practiced by the Banished Knights of the Altus Plateau. This cultural blending explains the presence of snake-hawk statues scattered throughout Volcano Manor.

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The Serpent itself is intrinsically tied to lava. Rykard is surrounded by a massive magma pool, as the great snake literally liquefies the stone around its body. However, its geothermal influence spreads far beyond the immediate boss room. The entire town built on Mount Gelmir is actively sinking into the lava, and magma geysers are sprouting far beyond the caldera. The volcano was not this active before the Serpent's awakening. The Burnt Minor Erdtree on Mount Gelmir serves as a grim warning of what would happen to the Erdtree itself should the lava ever reach it. This is exactly why Marika feared the Serpent so deeply.

https://preview.redd.it/ud1qsohpp95h1.png?width=1120&format=png&auto=webp&s=82aef452f6c4617a166c9cf1f0687cc91925c4db

The inspiration for Elden Ring's Serpent God is heavily rooted in Norse mythology, specifically merging two distinct legendary serpents. The first is Jörmungandr, the colossal World Serpent that encircles Midgard. According to myth, the serpent grew to such an unfathomable size in the depths of the sea that it completely wrapped around the earth. When Ragnarök begins, Jörmungandr releases its tail and thrashes its way onto land, its violent movements causing cataclysmic tidal waves and global flooding.

The second is Níðhöggr, a dragon/serpent who lives deep underground and perpetually gnaws on one of the three great roots of the World Tree, Yggdrasil. Níðhöggr's goal is to destroy the tree and bring the universe to ruin. Besides gnawing on roots, Níðhöggr is known as the "corpse-eater," said to chew on the bodies of the worst criminals in Norse society. In the mythology, Níðhöggr's emergence on the surface signals the climax of Ragnarök and the immediate aftermath of the World Tree's destruction.

The Serpent in Elden Ring possesses an insatiable hunger; it is sly, striking alliances with different factions, but is never shy about breaking them to achieve its ultimate goal—to devour the world and the Erdtree along with it. However, we know it was defeated once before in ancient times using the Serpent-Hunter—one of only three weapons in the game that emits the pure white light characteristic of the Rauh and titan civilizations.

Serpents clearly existed during the era of Rauh and the titans, as evidenced by the snake reliefs carved into the Forge of the Giants and the Divine Towers.

Serpent iconography is also heavily prominent on the stone coffins found in the DLC. While it might initially seem ambiguous whether the people of the stone arks venerated or feared serpents, there is a specific carving of a bird with a snake reaching for its neck. In art history, the depiction of an eagle fighting a snake is a classic symbol of Good triumphing over Evil, strongly suggesting the Serpent was viewed as a malevolent force.

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The Lava Flood

One of the strongest pieces of evidence for a global lava flood is the melted rock formations clinging to the sides of the Divine Towers. The rock forms organically up the sides of the towers, exactly as if a massive wave of lava splashed against them and flash-solidified. You might assume these were waves from a meteor impact or a nearby volcano, but the hardened waves on the various Divine Towers face different directions. This implies the entire earth was churning with liquid lava at the same time. The other ancient entities found sunken into this solidified bedrock are the Forge of the Giants, the Rauh arches scattered across the Lands Between, and the petrified corpses of the titans themselves.

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Finally, in the DLC, we are introduced to stone coffins (or arks) found half-sunken into solid rock. Seeing these coffins clustered on the Cerulean Coast might evoke the idea that they washed ashore from the ocean. But stone coffins cannot float in water. Rather, their current placement is likely a consequence of a receding shoreline that similarly uncovered the half-buried Rauh structures across the base game's map.

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These are likely stone arks built to survive a flood—but a flood of magma, not water. There is an obvious point of contention here: aren't these coffins simply meant for transporting corpses to the center of the Lands Between, much like how the player travels in stone coffins down the Siofra and Ainsel rivers? The answer lies in the steles found in the Ancient Dynasty ruins. Stone arks are depicted at the very top of these steles, narrating the genesis of their society. The arks represent the beginning of their story. It would be bizarre for a civilization's foundational myth to start with, "This is how we bury our dead." Instead, the arks we see stranded in the DLC belong to the unfortunate souls who did not survive the cataclysm.

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So, what caused the flood? This is where my theory diverges most from the Tarnished Archaeologist: the flood was created by the giant Serpent, not by meteor bombardment. A meteor bombardment heavy enough to liquefy the entire earth's crust would have completely obliterated the Divine Towers and the Rauh ruins. Furthermore, if the earth was turned to slag from space, we wouldn't see all the intact petrified trees perfectly preserved underground. Rather, the evidence points to the Serpent God almost fulfilling its dream of devouring the world.

Who was the Serpent allied with at that time? What did it eat to grow to such a monstrous size? We cannot know for sure, but I suggest it was allied with the titans. The Forge of the Giants required an unfathomable source of heat—what better source than the magma generated by the World Serpent? The more you feed the Serpent, the more lava it generates for your giant forge. The Ruined Forges required lava as well. The whole world seemed to be experiencing a metallurgical revolution at the time, with multiple cultures treating smithing as a sacred act. After all, they had just exited the Stone Age. Was the Serpent fed ancient dragons? Or did the giants feed it their own titan kin, allowing it to grow to world-ending proportions? We may never know.

Either way, when the inhabitants of the Lands Between finally realized the existential threat the Serpent posed, they crafted the Serpent-Hunter. It was a metal weapon born of their new era of smithing, but it was also the very last weapon to carry the ancient white light—a light we never see again in post-flood civilizations. They managed to defeat the Serpent, but at the cost of their civilization's collapse.

The Great Tree

The Root Resin description reads in Japanese:

>主に、地下の大樹根から採取できる天然樹脂
地上の木の側などで見つかることもある
その根は、かつて黄金樹に連なっていたといい
故に地下墓地は、大樹根の地を選んで作られる

Translated as literally as possible:

>"Natural resin that can mainly be gathered from the underground great tree roots. There are also times when it is found by the side of trees above ground and such. It is said that those roots were once connected to the Erdtree. Therefore, the catacombs are built by choosing the lands of the great tree roots."

In the word 大樹根 (Daijukon), the 樹根 (jukon) part means "tree roots," and the 大 (dai) means "great" or "big," emphasizing their massive size. From this description alone, we can't definitively say whether these roots belong to multiple large trees or one singular Great Tree. To clarify this, let's consult the description for the Map (Deeproot Depths):

>黄金樹の、遥か深き根の底はシーフラとエインセル、両大河の源流であり狭間の地下に広がる、大樹根のはじまりでもある
"The very bottom of the Erdtree's profoundly deep roots is the source of both great rivers, Siofra and Ainsel, and is also the beginning of the great tree roots that spread beneath the Lands Between."

https://preview.redd.it/ex9v5irrq95h1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=b61271ec1c30605dc632212171929005eaf39740

This description leaves no room for doubt: the Erdtree's roots end deep underground, precisely where the "great tree roots" begin. There was a Great Tree in this location long ago, and its base was rooted in the subterranean level where the Ainsel and Siofra rivers flow today.

Crucially, this underground area was the surface before the Great Flood happened. Subterranean regions like the Ancient Dynasty ruins are filled with huge, petrified trees. These petrified trees can also be found in the one overworld area that was untouched by the lava flood: the Consecrated Snowfield. Furthermore, in the Land of Shadow, a section of the earth's crust completely caved in, exposing these petrified trees to the sun once again—this area is the Abyssal Woods.

https://preview.redd.it/y8zeyo8tq95h1.png?width=1201&format=png&auto=webp&s=f3ea119bea1554a9bd04e5288c2a7397183ff2e3

Without a doubt, the earth was covered in massive trees prior to the flood. They are strikingly similar in size to the Minor Erdtrees. They are so similar, in fact, that the Ancestral Followers in eastern Liurnia seemingly confused a petrified tree for a Minor Erdtree and began worshipping it. Or perhaps there is no confusion at all, and the Minor Erdtrees and the ancient petrified trees are, in fact, the exact same species.

https://preview.redd.it/2d31d3iuq95h1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=20b5b0a4e50b30ab2ae90d33e4424b465043dc0c

The Golem Greatarrow features an etching of a peculiar tree, evident from the root designs near the arrowhead. Could this be an extreme stylization of some kind of ancient pine?

https://preview.redd.it/3iqo30gvq95h1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=c573255a7d1f692f8640017b7f6d678113062099

Whether there was one singular, previous World Tree, or the intertwined roots of all the ancient petrified trees collectively constitute the "Great Tree Roots," they were all extinguished by the Serpent. For the Serpent, devouring a World Tree is merely a stepping stone to devouring the world itself. It is no surprise, then, that after surviving the apocalyptic Great Flood, the Ancient Dynasty immediately began planning the cultivation of a new World Tree.

https://preview.redd.it/fxa5ofvwq95h1.png?width=2048&format=png&auto=webp&s=e38cbcaee2f43cea80cbefa3bac611b145514925

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u/SolidAlloy — 1 month ago