u/Solomon_Kane_1928

Image 1 — The Truth About Vaikuntha Dress
Image 2 — The Truth About Vaikuntha Dress
Image 3 — The Truth About Vaikuntha Dress
Image 4 — The Truth About Vaikuntha Dress
Image 5 — The Truth About Vaikuntha Dress

The Truth About Vaikuntha Dress

In the above images we see classical depictions of Vishnu, Krishna and Rama. All Indian gods are more or less depicted wearing the same kinds of clothing and jewelry. Kshatriyas from the Vedic Period, such as the Pandavas, are shown wearing the same dress.

This style is the standard in BBT art. It is also found in Indian paintings, devotional prints, and in Bollywood films.

It is what Vishnu eternally wears in Vaikuntha and what Krishna wears in Dwaraka and Mathura.

Vishnu's Dress

Vishnu wears a towering golden crown with a sun disc in the back. There are elaborate golden arm bands on his biceps and jewelry hanging across his neck and chest. An udarabandha, a thin golden bracelet, is stretched across the stomach. A yajnopavita thread is hung over his left shoulder and under his right arm. The rest of his body is naked except for the dhoti and chadar. A flower garland rests prominently atop the regalia. When visible, the ankles are draped in bracelets.

This is how devotees are advised to meditate on Vishnu in manasa seva. The bhakta will imagine Vishnu standing on a lotus flower within his heart, dressed the same way.

This clothing is considered to reflect the Vedic period (1500 BCE - 500 BCE), when the events of the Mahabharata and Puranas were said to take place, when the gods and avataras walked the earth. Beyond that, we are told, this is the style of the spiritual world, an expression of Aishvarya Bhava.

Gupta Period Fashion

In truth, none of this stuff comes from the Vedic Period. It began to develop in the Early Classical Period (200 BCE) and found full expression in the Gupta Period (200 CE - 600 CE).

Vedic kings did not wear crowns, they wore turbans, often with jewels intricately attached (see fourth image). The golden crowns one sees Krishna wearing in BBT art are from roughly 1400 years after Krishna would have lived.

Armbands (khadi) were worn in the Vedic period as amulets, but they were much simpler than depicted in later art. The elaborate arm bracelets we see in BBT art are also from the Gupta Period.

Vedic kings did not wear large necklaces and gold plates that dripped down their chests. There wore smaller necklaces made of threaded gold coins and only during festivals and rituals. Generally they wore bead necklaces, some hanging low and some tight around the neck like a kunthi mala.

Indian kings did not wear complex golden jewelry until the Gupta Period, when trade with Rome brought all sorts of gems, beads and precious metals previously unavailable.

The belly necklace (udarabandha) was also not worn until much later, and was not popularized until the Gupta Period. It was meant to correct posture and emphasize a strong abdomen for aesthetics.

There were no yajnopavita threads. These are the three intertwined strands of cotton that ISKCON wrongly calls "Brahman threads". This also evolved much later during the Early Classical Period.

Kings in the Vedic Period did not wear ankle bracelets. It was considered effeminate. Only much later did men start wearing a large solid clasps around their lower legs. A Vedic king would not be caught dead wearing soft dainty chains around his ankles.

The only thing Vedic kings did wear were the upper and lower cloth, and the flower garland.

Why Gupta Dress?

As we can see, Gupta Period dress became spiritualized, frozen in time, as the very image of transcendent culture. How did this happen?

Well the answer is simple. It was during the Gupta Empire that the Puranas were written and the gods were created as we understand them.

Their dress reflects the time period their iconography was designed. It is also the first time India became wealthy and royalty could dress in such finery.

The Guptas also made carvings of gods in their own dress, and this cemented the image into the Indian psyche. Simply put, they are the gods of the Guptas.

u/Solomon_Kane_1928 — 2 days ago

The True Origins of the Panca Tattva

Hinduism is not a religion in the Western sense. It is a culture one is born into. There is no central text and no singular authority. Subsequently there is no system in place to grant legitimacy. Hinduism is a patchwork of personality cults. Each new cult must grant itself legitimacy by tying itself to an accepted authority from the past.

The Fight for Legitimacy
Indian religion can be thought of as a boiling pot of water. Cults rise to the surface and then disappear in a never ending process. They may pop like a bubble or simply sink beneath the surface to be forgotten. Orthodoxy grants staying power.

Cults are desperate to survive. As soon as a guru gains followers and influence, he begins the fight to be included within orthodoxy. Competition is fierce and gurus resort to desperate measures.

This is why Prabhupada was constantly attacking other cult leaders, even his own godbrothers. It is the "crabs in a bucket" mentality. The cult leader must declare himself to be the only true representative of orthodoxy, he is teaching the truth "as it is". All other cults must be kicked down into the boiling water.

My Guru is God!
The fastest way to claim orthodoxy and gain followers is to directly identify oneself with the Supreme Brahman. This is a risky strategy, but if you can pull it off, the rewards are huge. On the flip side, any flaw in the guru's behavior can be catastrophic for his reputation.

A safer route is to declare oneself to be a god, the partial ray of a god, a guru or godman from the past, a figure from mythology, or an incarnation of a servant from the spiritual world. This gains legitimacy while minimizing the risk.

Chaitanya's Cult
Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was a charismatic figure. His presence alone was enough to grant legitimacy, at least in the eyes of millions in eastern India. Still, he too came to be seen as a combination of Radha and Krishna.

Following his death in 1534, his cult split into competing factions. The most charismatic among his followers established their own personality cults called sampradayas or parivars, and began fighting over the power and influence Chaitanya had amassed.

Chaitanya left no centralized text or system of authority to grant legitimacy. Prabhupada would try to resolve this same issue by creating the GBC.

The Parivars
Nityananda's cult was based in Northeastern Bengal. After his death his wife Jahnavi Devi assumed control. It was focused on converting everyone of all castes and backgrounds, including Tantric Buddhists. It was highly egalitarian, liberal and unorthodox. Nityananda was known for preaching to those considered fallen.

Advaita's cult was based in Shantipur. In contrast to Nityananda's cult, it was closer to orthodox Brahminism. Similar to the later Bhadralok Gaudiya Vaishnavas of the British Raj, which included Bhaktivinode Thakur, it attracted the educated elite.

Gadadhara's cult was based in Puri and focused on raganuga bhakti. It emphasized the cultivation of ecstatic devotion and internal meditation, much like Chaitanya in his final years.

Srivasa's cult was based in Navadwip and was centered on the performance of kirtana and the cultivation of householders. Think nama hatta programs.

Inventing The Pancha Tatva
These cults began to compete for followers, to criticize each other, to push each other down like crabs in a bucket as they each fought for legitimacy. To stop the Chaitanya movement from splitting apart, Svarupa Damodara and Krishnadas Kaviraja, the first theologians of the movement, invented the Pancha Tattva.

These competing cults were declared to be co-equals, all carrying the legitimacy of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. They are different limbs of Chaitanya himself, descended to fulfill his mission. The Pancha Tattva is a theological and political construct meant to unite a movement.

Each member of the Pancha Tattva is made into an avatara:

Mahaprabhu is the incarnation of Krishna, in the mood of Radha, acting as his own devotees.
Nityananda is the incarnation of Balarama.
Advaita is the incarnation Maha Vishnu and Shiva.
Gadadhara is the incarnation of Radha.
Srivasa is the incarnation of Narada, the pure devotee.

Thus all the cults are united and granted legitimacy.

The Pancha Tattva Mantra
For this purpose, the Pancha Tattva mantra was also created and instituted by Svarupa Damordara and Krishnadasa Kaviraja.

Before the chanting of the Maha Mantra, all Gaudiya cults must reaffirm they are united and legitimate. The mantra declares "we are all one Gauda Bhakta Vrnda", one large cult.

This worked. It sealed the rift, ensuring Gaudiya Vaishnavism would survive and prosper.

Gaura Gadadhara and Gaura Nitai
The different parivars still maintained their individual emphasis. This was expressed by uniting their specific cult leader to Chaitanya directly on their altars, as an assertion of identity.

Thus the Gadadhara parivars worship Gaura Gadadhara in the mood of romantic love. The Nityananda parivars worship Gaura Nitai in the mood of fraternal love.

Why Does ISKCON Worship Gaura Nitai?
The Nityananda lineage had come to dominate Gaudiya Vaishnavism, but it was based on bloodline, the Jati Gosais descended from Nityananda's son Virabhadra. Prabhupada's own lineage, coming from Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati, was practically at war with the Nityananda parivar. So it is strange that ISKCON worships Gaura Nitai.

Prabhupada chose to institute the worship of Gaura Nitai because of Nityananda's unorthodox nature. Nityananda was known for preaching to the outcastes, yavanas, mlecchas, Buddhists. In the eyes of Prabhupada, that is who we are.

This is why in ISKCON we were trained to worship the strange figure of Nityananda. He was a follower of Chaitanya who started his own cult. Due to the political needs of the time he was deified. We were made to worship him because our cult leader, Prabhupada, felt that we were fallen outcasts, born outside Vedic Brahminical culture, and needed his mercy.

u/Solomon_Kane_1928 — 3 days ago

Everyone is an Avatara!

(pictured: Sai Baba as Kalki)

As a devotee I secretly found it difficult to accept that everyone in Chaitanya Lila is an avatara of someone else. It seemed so sentimental and irrational.

Incarnations Everywhere!

There are full incarnations, partial incarnations, mixed incarnations. Advaita Acharya is declared to be half Maha Vishnu and half Sada Shiva. Ramananda Roy is a mixture of Arjuna, Arjuna Gopa, and Visakha Gopi.

Anyone mentioned in the Chaityanya Caritamrta must be from Goloka, or at least from the Puranas or Mahabharata. They could be Vyasadeva, Brihaspati or Brahma.

I found Nityananda particularly hard to accept. Here is this guy who shows up out of nowhere, behaves strangely, then kind of goes off and does his own thing. He is accepted as Balarama and as important as Chaitanya. It just seemed weird. It always struck me as forced.

Any guru in the parampara worth their weight turns out to be a Manjari from Vrndavana.

This tendency is not something safely frozen in the past. It continues into our present time. Prabhupada is thought to be an incarnation of Subala Sakha. He is the "Senapati Bhakta" predicted in scripture to conquer the world for Krishna.

The entirety of 16th century Bengal has become an avatara. It descended whole cloth from the spiritual world. Chaitanya Lila is eternal and goes on in Shvetadwipa, the outer mandala of Goloka.

A Broader Problem

This is not something that only exists in Gaudiya Vaishnavism. It causes problems everywhere in Hinduism, where every two bit guru declares himself (or herself) to be an incarnation.

Sai Baba declared himself to be Krishna, Shiva, and Durga. Whatever you worship, it turns out it is him.

Guru Maharaj Ji, aka Balyogi, declared himself to be Krishna and his mother to be Durga. When he married a Western flight attendant she became Radha. Durga did not approve of Radha. Krishna had become corrupted by the sinful Westerners. She fired Krishna and his brother became the new incarnation.

The contemporary guru Nithyananda has declared himself to be the 1008th incarnation of Parama Shiva. This is the highest possible form of Shiva, tantamount to the Western concept of God.

ISKCON distances itself from these "charlatans" but it is really no different. Nor are the Vaishnava lineages in the past.

An Ancient Tradition

Ramanuja was Ananta Sesa, Lakshmana and Balarama. The Alvars are thought to be Vishnu's weapons, instruments and attendants. Madhva is Vayu, Bhima and Hanuman. Shankaracharya is Shiva (I mean it's in the name).

At some point we have to admit how ridiculous this all is. Why is there this need to look at one's guru and imagine they are something utterly transcendent and inconceivable, or a beloved figure from mythology?

It seems to me to be fanaticism. It is a psychological tool to induce self surrender through suspending reason. It is seductive tendency for those looking to deepen their "bhava".

When communities do it together, reinforcing such beliefs among each other, often with the approval of the guru, it becomes the basis of a personality cult.

u/Solomon_Kane_1928 — 4 days ago

The Mysterious Origins of Jagannath

The deities of Jagannath Baladeva and Subhadra are part of ISKCON's global identity. Jagannath's face is central to ISKCON's branding, appearing on everything from bumper stickers to umbrellas to sweatshirts. The Ratha Yatra festivals occurring in major cities throughout the world are ISKCON's largest events.

Lord of the Mlecchas

Prabhupada insisted the Jagannath trimurti be installed in all of his temples. This is because Bhaktisiddhanta, born in Puri to the administrator of the temple, wanted Jagannath worship to be established worldwide. Jagannath is considered merciful to the fallen, and non-Indians are fallen.

As devotees we were taught Jagannath is not strict. Anyone can worship him. He is not easily offended. Shyamasundara, the first devotee to carve Jagannath (or any deity) in ISKCON, was smoking cigarettes while he was carving him.

Children in ISKCON are often given Jagannath deities as toys. Prabhupada himself was given toys of Jagannath and would perform ratha yatras with them. Thus for the ignorant Yavanas and Mlecchas, Jagannath is the best deity. We are like tribal peoples.

The Sabar Peoples

To this day Jagannath's worship is not entirely Vedic or Brahminical.

It is widely believed he began as the Adivasi tribal deity of the Sabar peoples. For millennia, the members of that tribe have had special privileges in his worship. Their descendants, the Daitapatis, are not Brahmanas, and chant no Vedic mantras, but they handle the body of Jagannath directly. They perform the most intimate aspects of his worship and are considered to be his own family members.

Even Jagannath's prasad is prepared in the tribal fashion. No non-Indian vegetables are allowed, including potatoes, tomatoes, chilies. Rough grains are boiled in clay pots.

The Adivasi peoples of Odisha worshiped wooden poles as deities and still do today. Their god Kitung is believed to reside within these poles, as well as their ancestors. In much the way Jagannath is fashioned, a special tree is chosen by a shaman and given its shape. Large saucer like eyes are carved at the top of the pole, because these are protector deities that watch over the village.

The Sabara tribe worshiped one deity: Kitung. The neighboring Kondh tribe worshiped three deities, representing earth spirits: Murvi Penu, Tana Penu, and Jakeri Penu. Murvi Penu merged with Kitung to create Jagannath. Tana Penu (the earth goddess) became Subhadra. Jakeri Penu became Balarama.

Buddhism and Jainism (300 BCE)

Following the conversion of Ashoka, Buddhism spread into Kalinga (Odisha). Buddhists and Jains reinterpreted these tribal deities in their own way.

The three murtis were (and still are) seen to represent the Triratna, or three jewels of Buddhism: the Buddha, the Dharma, and the Sangha. It is believed the Ratha Yatra began as a Buddhist procession. Unlike Hindu deities, which remained in temples, Buddhists brought their deities into the streets and drew them in carts.

There is also a tradition stating the Buddhas tooth, a sacred relic, was kept in Puri, then known as Dantapura (City of the Tooth). Buddhists believe this tooth is still inside the current deity of Jagannath.

Later, when the Buddha was adopted as an avatara of Vishnu, Jagannath would directly be seen as a deity form of the Buddha. The tradition in Odisha of all castes sharing mahaprasada equally is also thought to derive from Buddhist egalitarianism.

Jains similarly interpret the three deities as representing their three jewels: right faith, right knowledge, and right conduct.

Jains interpreted the black Jagannath as the unmanifest Sunya. Subhadra was seen as Shakti or the power of creation. Baladeva was understood to represent the manifest universe.

Brahmanism (400 CE)

As Brahmanism spread through Odisha, these deities were given brick and stone temples. Vedic worship was instituted. This would culminate in the massive temple which stands today, completed in 1161 CE by the Eastern Ganga Dynasty, with Jagannath being made the state deity.

During this period Shaktas, Vaishnavas, Shaivites and Sauras (Sun worshipers) successively developed their own interpretations of these three deities.

Shaktism (600 CE - 800 CE)

The first Hindus to claim Jagannath as their own were Shaktas. During the rule of the Bhauma-Kara Dynasty, Odisha was a center for both Tantric Buddhism and Kapalika Shaktism.

Rather than Jagannath being the main deity, it was Subhadra. She was seen as Adyashakti Durga or Bhuvaneshwari, the Shakti of the cosmos. She was flanked by her two consorts, both forms of Shiva.

Jagannath was seen as Mahakala Bhairava, Shiva as the Destroyer. Rather than the protective glance of the village deity, or Krishna's eyes filled with love for his devotees, Jagannath's large saucer eyes emanated death and destruction, a visage of divine rage.

Baladeva in contrast was the pacified and calm form of the same deity, Aghora Shiva (not ghastly or fearful). He was seen as the white colored Sankarshana Rudra, a peaceful ascetic smeared with ash.

Shaivism (800 CE - 900 CE)

During this period the Tantric Shaivite Keshari Dynasty ruled. Jagannath was still identified with Mahakala Bhairava Shiva, but now he became the focus rather than Subhadra. Bimala Devi was installed as his consort, and identified with Bhairavi.

Bhaktisiddhanta was named Bimala Prasad in connection to this deity, as all Jagannath Prasad must be offered to her to this day before it can be eaten.

Subhadra was understood to be a fierce form of Shakti, known as Ekanamsha.

Baladeva was still Aghora Shiva, but instead of being peaceful, he became active and destructive.

Vaishnavism (1000 - 1100)

The Eastern Ganga Dynasty were Vaishnavas. The temple shifted from Shaivism to Vaishnavism. Concessions were made so as not to cause friction.

Jagannath was newly identified Maha Vishnu, or Purushottama Narayana. He started to be worshiped with Vaishnava mantras.

Subhadra became identified with Lakshmi. However to this day she is worshiped with Shaivite mantras appropriate to Bhuvaneshwari.

Baladeva at first retained his identification with Shiva. Over time, the Vaishnava shift increased and Baladeva, or Balabhadra, became identified with Sankarshana, the second of the Chatur Vyuha.

To this day, Baladeva is worshiped with Shaivite mantras which address him as Aghora Shiva. Baladeva's chariot is crowned with a Shiva Dhvaj flag and is guarded by Nandi.

The Eastern Ganga Dynasty were also Sauras and patrons of the Konark Sun Temple. It is believed the Sudarshana Chakra on the spire of the temple, aside from being Vishnu's chakra, is a reference to the Sun. The Sudarshana Chakra which stands as a pillar beside Jagannath is also thought to represent Surya.

Krishnaism (1500 CE)

At the time of Chaitanya another layer was added. Jagannath began to be worshiped as Krishna. Subhadra became his sister. Balabhadra became his brother Balarama.

Jagannath was connected to Radha Krishna lila. Ratha Yatra was now Krishna being pulled forcibly to Vrndavana. The festival became inextricably connected to the kirtana movement. He became a prominent deity within Gaudiya Vaishnavism and is second in popularity only to Goddess Kali in Bengal.

One God To Unite Them All

The origins of Jagannath Baladeva Subhadra and Sudarshana are shrouded in mystery and there are countless academic theories. What makes the most sense to me is they developed in layers over centuries.

As these layers were added, they both preserved and unified the culture. Each piece is added like dishes in a multi-generational potluck. This process is colorful and informal. Jagannath developed alongside the people of Eastern India and represents their history and culture. In a way, he is them.

The Jagannath temple is for everyone, of all Indian faiths. Everyone adds their gods to the communal altar and views them through their own theological eyes. This is allowed and encouraged. This is perhaps why the deities appear so unusual. Jagannath is a fusion deity.

Puri is not Vaishnava, Shaivite, Shakta, Buddhist, Jain or Sabara. It is all of these things at once and everyone is okay with it. This is how the rulers of Odisha have wanted it. No one should feel excluded.

He is the state deity of Odisha. All people are unified in his worship, from the royal family to the tribal peoples. From a political perspective, that is his purpose, and always has been. Whatever belief system becomes popular is added as another ingredient in the communal pot.

u/Solomon_Kane_1928 — 6 days ago

Exploiting The Exchange Rate

The Indian Rupee is currently trading at ₹96 per $1.

This is terrible for the people of India. The big ugly secret is, American and European Hare Krishnas secretly enjoy this.

"It is a great time to go to India prabhu!"

You can get a hotel room for $15 a night! Vegetarian meals are 50 cents! Cab rides for a $1. Get it while the getting is good!

Hare Krishna's want India to remain poor so it retains its "ancient unchanging culture" and the people remain hopelessly dependent on religious authority. But they also want India to remain poor because they can easily take 1 month long vacations on the cheap.

Even those that want poverty in India to improve, don't want it to improve TOO much.

I am not even exaggerating.

u/Solomon_Kane_1928 — 7 days ago

Meat Eating In The Vedas

Prabhupada taught that India has always been vegetarian. For millions of years Rishis and Rajarshis followed a strict sattvik diet, obeying the Vedic injunctions, carefully following the regulative principles: no meat, no fish, no eggs, no tea, no garlic, no onions, no mushrooms and no chocolate.

In contrast, your filthy barbarian ancestors, the Yavanas and Mlecchas, fell down from the Vedic principles, ravenously sinking their teeth into flesh like animals. Those hot dogs you ate as a kid? You took a sinful birth because you are a sinful undeveloped soul. In contrast, Prabhupada took birth in Vaishnava Hindu family because he is a pure soul, without sin. He has never eaten meat, not even chicken soup!

This is of course all a lie.

Animals Sacrifice Was Universal

The original followers of the Vedas ate meat. They sacrificed cattle and oxen in fire yajnas and then gathered afterwards to communally eat the meat prasad.

This was nearly universal throughout Eurasia. Meat eating was relatively rare because it was expensive. As part of religious sacrifice, meat was eaten as a special delicacy and a communion with the gods.

Taking the life of another living being was broadly prohibited as taboo. It needed purification through religious ritual. Consent was gained from the animals, as understood through omens. The animals had to meet certain purity requirements, such as being unblemished. The sacrificed animal was considered to be profoundly elevated to a higher ontological status.

The Greeks had elaborate rituals for animal sacrifice (Thysia). In emergencies, when divine intervention was needed, the entire animal would be burnt and offered to the gods of the underworld in what was known as a holocaust (Holokauston).

The Hebrews similarly sacrificed animals on a fire alter at their temple in Jerusalem. This was done twice daily. On Passover the general people would all bring animals to the temple for sacrifice. The Bible repeatedly states that God finds the aroma of the cooking meat to be pleasing.

Pashu Bali

Similarly, the Rg Veda describes animals sacrifice (Pashu Bali) including the killing of goats, sheep, oxen, bulls, and famously; horses.

Indra loved to eat oxen and bulls: RV 10.86.14: "They cook for me fifteen plus twenty oxen; they soothe me with the fat, and fill both my sides."

Agni loved oxen and bulls as well: RV 8.43.11: "Agni whose food is the ox and the barren cow."

During the yajna, the animal was taken to a nearby enclosure and strangled with a chord, so as not to spill blood. This was to stifle any crying or screaming, which would be interpreted as a bad omen and a lack of consent.

The animal was dismembered. The fat from around the organs was basted in ghee and placed directly into the fire yajna where it would melt instantly.

The meat from the animal would be roasted on a spit separately, or boiled in a pot. When sufficiently softened, it too would be placed on the fire yajna.

The meat would then be distributed to the Yajaman, the person paying for the yajna, and the priests. The Yajaman would then throw a feast for the greater community.

The Influence of Buddhism

Buddhism and Jainism taught non-violence (ahimsa). This began to influence Vedic culture about 300 BCE. There was already talk of non-violence in the Upanishads but change was slow. That changed when Emperor Ashoka converted to Buddhism. He dramatically made animal sacrifice illegal. To maintain power, the Brahmanas had to internalize the critique of animal sacrfice. They were forced to compromise and obey.

Through the centuries, Hindu texts would be increasingly open to ahimsa. Texts like the Manu Samhita and Mahabharata would extol its virtues. They would argue that animal sacrifice (and thus meat consumption) were the product of a bygone age when the people had lost their way. Being vegetarian is more conducive to good karma, then hundreds of horse sacrifices.

During the Puranic period (400 CE+), vegetarianism and ahimsa became synonymous with purity and thus Brahmanism. Once the Buddha was absorbed into the Vaishnava pantheon, it was proclaimed that Vishnu descended as Guatama Siddharta to end animal sacrifice. Those "karma kandis" had gone too far. This represents the full assimilation of Buddhist teachings. Hindus now claimed they had always been against animal sacrifice (and meat eating).

Prabhupada Says

This was the version of events taught by Prabhupada. Vishnu as Buddha would further provoke the need for a restoration of the lost and true teachings of the Vedas, i.e. Medieval Vaishnava Bhakti through the intermediate stage of Shankara's Advaita.

Prabhupada would not deny that animals were sacrificed in the Vedas. He would deny that the Vedic peoples ate the meat. Prabhupada even claimed the animals would be brought back to life, to demonstrate and test the power of Vedic mantras.

Prabhupada would claim such sacrifices only existed in tamasic yajnas to supposedly tamo guna deities like the Goddess Kali. Only the lowest class of people did this, those who could not give up eating meat. This ignores the fact that meat eating was part of highest Srauta sacrifices and partaken in by Brahmanas.

The meat eater supposedly whispers into the animals ear "I am killing you now, but you will kill me later". The Shaktas who actually sacrifice goats to Kali do not believe this. Nor do they whisper this into the goats ear.

Prabhupada would further claim that if Yavanas and Mlecchas wanted to eat meat, to remain outcastes, they should sacrifice a goat to Goddess Kali instead of running slaughterhouses. Cow slaughter is strictly forbidden.

u/Solomon_Kane_1928 — 8 days ago

ISKCON's Ties to Hindutva Extremism

Dr. Prakasarao Velagapudi came to the US in 1965, the same year as Prabhupada. Despite living among Americans for 60 years, he heads a radical right wing organization active in India. The Global Hindu Heritage Foundation is dedicated to "protecting Sanatana Dharma and Bharata Mata" by rooting out "concealed Christians".

Velagapudi openly calls for the destruction of Christian churches. Hindus must be inoculated against Christian teachings using the Bhagavad Gita. Suspected Christians must not be allowed into temples. Indian Christians and Muslims should be forcibly converted to "Sanatana Dharma" in a process called "Ghar Wapsi", or returning home.

Meanwhile, in the US, among Americans, those who welcomed him into their country, he desires the opposite. He hypocritically wants to see Americans converted to Hinduism and for Hindu temples to proliferate. He praises when Westerners convert to Hinduism, and like Prabhupada, uses zealous Western converts as examples of how Indians are lax in their practice.

For this reason he supports ISKCON. He appreciates the conversion of Western Christians to Hinduism, but more importantly, he sees ISKCON as a way for Indians in America to hold on to their heritage. Thus he encourages Indians to donate to building massive temples, like ISKCON "Gita Mandir" in Frisco Texas, which is currently in its fundraising stage. In the above video Dr. Prakasarao is seen standing at the ISKCON Gita Mandir building site calling for donations.

Frisco has become a hotbed on social media for the debate on Indian immigration in America, the abuse of the H1B visa system, and the growing influence of Hindutva politics.

Is this the future of ISKCON? Is it destined to be dominated by right wing politics driven by an increasingly powerful Indian diaspora with ties to Hindutva organizations?

Is ISKCON being refashioned into a bulwark of Hindu identity in the world, protecting Indians from becoming Westernized, while "conquering the Mleccha world for Hinduism and India"? Will it become a reactionary Hindu movement dedicated to persecuting non-Hindus in India while converting non-Hindus abroad? If so, that is not too far off from what Prabhupada wanted.

u/Solomon_Kane_1928 — 9 days ago

The Myth of Vedic Cooking

ISKCON considers Indian food to be superior to non-Indian food. It is higher class, culturally refined, sattvik and pure, and more appropriate to offer to the deities. The culture of India is the culture of the spiritual world. It is eternal. When Krishna eats, he prefers Indian food.

When Lakshmi cooks for Narayana, or Radha cooks for Krishna, they cook traditional dishes like the subji Aloo Gobhi, an ISKCON deity kitchen staple.

A pujari begins by making a chaunce, adding cumin and coriander seeds to hot ghee. Next, hing (asafoetida), black pepper, and paprika are added. Blended fresh ginger and green chillis are added and allowed to simmer. Now we are ready for the vegetables!

Chopped potatoes are added and allowed to cook. It is a good time to add salt. Cauliflower is added and allowed to soften. Tomatoes are added and allowed to stew. Finally, a dash of salt, a bit of coriander and cumin powder, mix it gently, and you are done!

This recipe is perfect for offering to Krishna. It is Vedic and pure! Don't forget the chapatis or puris! Puff them up nice and steamy like Prabhupada said!

But not so fast Swamiji!

Of all of these ingredients only two are native to India.

Ghee (India)

Cumin seeds and powder (Mediterranean)

Coriander seeds and powder (Mediterranean)

Asafoetida (Iran and Afghanistan)

Black Pepper (India)

Paprika (South America)

Ginger (Indonesia)

Green Chilli (Mexico)

Potatoes (Peru)

Cauliflower (Turkey)

Tomatoes (Peru)

Many of these ingredients would have been used during the Vedic period (1000 BCE) because they were imported by the Indus Valley Civilization from the Mediterranean, but they are not native to India. Many more were imported much later by the Portuguese (like the cheese we discussed before).

What about those delicious hot chapatis smothered in butter?

Wheat and barley have been in India since the first neolithic farmers arrived on the subcontinent, about 7000 BCE. But they too are a foreign import. These grains were first cultivated in the Fertile Crescent, as were the flat breads made from them.

That's right prabhus! Those eternal recipes are not eternal. They are not from Goloka. They are not even entirely Indian. In fact they are possible due to generations of hard work from Mleccha Yavana Outcaste farmers around the world.

u/Solomon_Kane_1928 — 10 days ago

"My Guru Has Mystic Powers!"

ISKCON godfamilies love to swap stories of their guru's supposed magical powers. Every single disciple group has at least a handful of these tales.

It could be mind reading. It could be a serendipitous arrangement, "I was praying to gurudeva and his email shot into my inbox!". "Gurudeva gave off an aura during class, did you see it". The most common miracle is "Gurudeva gave class and addressed all the questions I had in my mind!".

A godbrother once shared with me a story of how our guru asked him to get something from the luggage rack strapped to the top of a car. He was digging around for some time and could not find it. Then the guru walked up, stuck his hand into the pile of stuff, and pulled it out! It's a miracle Prabhu!

It could be gurudeva was the one who put that object there in the first place.

These stories are proof their guru is the real deal. Possibly the next acharya, that others have not recognized yet.

Prabhupada Disciples love these stories. They dominate the Prabhupada Memories tapes. "Prabhupada read my mind!". "Prabhupada was levitating"

These experiences serve to validate people's faith in ISKCON and that Krishna is behind the movement, empowering it's mission to conquer the world.

u/Solomon_Kane_1928 — 11 days ago

The Myth of "Vedic Sweets"

ISKCON claims Krishna prefers to be offered traditional Vedic sweets like rasagulla, sandesh, ras malai. Ancient Vedic recipes are superior. It may be that Krishna ate them himself, from the hands of Mother Yashoda.

In ISKCON these are offered to the deities early in the morning and are coveted throughout the day. There is a culture of stealing them, so they are locked away and often sold to the highest bidder, or traded for influence.

In reality these sweets are neither ancient nor Vedic. They are Bengali sweets made possible by culinary techniques learned from the Portuguese. That's right folks, the filthy Mlecchas.

In traditional Vedic or Aryan cooking it was considered taboo to curdle milk. To split the milk was inauspicious. Yogurt was made by adding a culture to milk and allowing it to ferment. Boiling milk then adding acid to separate fat and protein from whey was off limits.

The Persians introduced paneer into Northern India in the 1500's and it was a staple in Mughal cuisine. They used animal rennet to curdle the milk and then pressed it until it was hard. It was forbidden among the general Hindu populace to eat it.

Also in the 1500's, Portuguese sailors began establishing colonies along the Hooghly River in Bengal. During the time of Chaitanya, they were sailing up the rivers and trading at Saptagram, 40 miles south from Navadwip. They would establish forts along this route. Chittagong was a major Portuguese trading town, all with the permission of Mughal emperors such as Akbar.

They began showing the locals how to split milk using citric acids like lemon juice, thus opening the practice to vegetarian Hindus. They would make a soft curd, without pressing it.

Local Bengali sweet makers then took that soft cheese, called chhana, and used it to make soft wet sweets. Hence the rasagulas and sandesh.

This same technique then began being used by Hindus to make paneer of their own. ISKCON's obsession with "curd picking" comes from Portuguese and Persians bringing cheese making to India 500 years ago.

u/Solomon_Kane_1928 — 12 days ago

ISKCON and Codependency

Definition from Psychology Today:

>Codependency is a dysfunctional, one-sided relationship dynamic where one person (the "giver") sacrifices their own needs, well-being, and mental health to care for or enable another (the "taker"). It is a learned, addictive behavioral pattern—often rooted in childhood or addiction scenarios—marked by poor boundaries, low self-esteem, and an intense, unhealthy emotional reliance on the other person.

Drug Addiction and Codependency

One of my close family members is a lifelong drug addict. Their relationships are almost all codependent with themselves as the taker. Anyone who refuses to become a giver is ghosted or ignored. These relationships have provided them everything they need, including shelter, for decades.

I observed this same relationship between ISKCON and it's members.

Sometimes traumatized persons cannot support themselves. They come to depend upon family members and friends. In my experience, such persons should be given all the help they need, along with plenty of compassion and understanding, as long as they are making an effort to improve.

Without recognizing there is a problem, and without striving to improve, such relationships often descend into codependency.

The drug addict learns to survive by taking from others. It becomes their life strategy. They don't even notice they are doing it. It is automatic. They gradually become a virtual black hole (Like The Void from the movie Thunderbolts), moving through life draining what they can from those around them.

They form parasitical relationships and preserve themselves through emotional manipulation. Takers walk through life as angry spiteful victims. Everyone has wronged them. Whatever is given is never enough. Shame is used as a tool of coercion.

The host can sacrifice for years, giving everything they have; but the moment they withdraw, the moment boundaries are set, the codependent person treats them as an enemy who has never given anything.

ISKCON and Codependency

ISKCON behaves like the drug addict in this scenario. It takes and takes and takes. It demands everything while giving nothing. It uses shame to insure its members keep giving.

The shame is enormous. It is not simply a guilt tripping text or phone call. It is built into every aspect of life. Devotees are taught to never criticize the movement, its teachings, its members, and especially its founder.

The slightest withdrawal, the slightest lack of surrender, the moment one does not give, is felt as cosmic condemnation. The cult member is made to feel they are only worthy when they are contributing free labor or giving donations. There is a constant fear of rejection and expulsion.

ISKCON members are so wrapped up in a codependent relationship, they literally cannot survive without the movement. Their external lives, relationships, education, and career, are consciously obliterated so they they have no hope of independence.

Devotees are like abused housewives who cannot leave the home. They have no control of their own lives and must ask permission to do any action not previously granted.

The world outside the home is refashioned as hell on earth, a place filled with demons where devotees lose their souls. All refusal to give is rebranded as "Maya" or illusion.

Emotions are repressed out of fear they will offend others. There is Vaishnava aparadha, guru aparadha, seva aparadha, deity aparadha.

ISKCON members have no boundaries, they cannot say no. Many do not even have boundaries in personal space. At the whim of a temple president they can be uprooted from ashrams and apartments. Many live with no property, no rights, and no control of their own future.

When abused, devotees do not stop giving and serving. They consider it a test of their faith, a test of their love.

No matter how bad it gets the devotee will not leave. Even after recognizing the toxicity of the environment, they sacrifice themselves to "save the movement".

All of these things are symptomatic of extreme codependency.

Gurus and Codependency

I have noticed many gurus are extremely codependent with their disciples. They survive like drug addicts, taking from everyone around them. It becomes their personality so that subconsciously everything they do is meant to absorb from others; wealth, respect, approval, affecton.

They come to depend upon minuscule signals of surrender and dependence, even facial expressions and bodily postures. When a guru enters a room, he clocks the level of surrender. Indeed, that is his job. To detect resistance and root it out.

Spiritual health is seen as total surrender to himself, a willingness to sacrifice everything, like Arjuna on the battlefield. After all he is Krishna's representative. He is the taker, we are the givers. The more codependent we are, the more spiritually advanced we are.

The guru's codependency is ISKCON's codependency in human form. He is an avatara of cult codependency.

u/Solomon_Kane_1928 — 13 days ago

A Time Machine to Vedic India

The Mahabharata and Bhagavat Purana depict ancient India at the beginning of Kali Yuga in 3102 BCE, when Krishna and the Pandavas had their adventures. There is immense wealth and power, marble palaces, iron weapons and gold jewelry. Demigods walked the earth. Vimanas filled the sky. Indians ruled the entire planet from Delhi.

Reality is not so flattering.

1300 BCE

Vedic India did not exist until nearly 2000 years later. If we had a time machine, we would set the date to 1300 BCE and arrive in the Western Ganges Plain somewhere near Mathura.

The first thing we would notice upon arriving is that everyone is extremely poor. It would look destitute to our eyes. People wore rags, unstitched cotton cloth, with only a few pieces of jewelry.

There is nothing but wilderness. Refugees pulled dusty bullock carts through a desolate landscape of mud and sticks. Nomadic horsemen from the mountainous regions to the West, following the collapse of the Indus Valley Civilization, have begun settling into a more stable life as hard scrabble farmers.

The hymns of the Rg Veda, soon to be completed, are their most valuable possession. Songs carried in memory from their forgotten far away homeland along the Amu Darya river.

There are no cities, only scattered villages, some within ditches surrounded by moats, prickling with wooden stakes.

Iron tools were a new invention. Rather than fighting Rakshasas in the sky, they are used to clear forests to make way for planting barley.

The water buffalo farmers of the former Indus Valley have migrated into the jungles of the south, though some have remained to mix freely. The tribal adivasi peoples roam the ditches forests and fields, with bow and arrow to hunt game, as they have since prehistory.

1000 BCE

Let us step back into our time machine and move forward three centuries.

The villages are now towns, larger, but still simple and extremely poor by our standards.

Social classes have emerged, the beginnings of Varna. The Indus Valley farmers have been reduced to Shudras, providing hard labor and living as slaves. The Adivasi peoples live on the fringes of society, labelled outcastes. Considered thieves, they are only allowed to enter villages to retrieve and dispose of corpses.

This is the time of the Kuru-Panchala Kingdom, idolized in the Mahabharata, when Krishna would have lived.

There is archeological evidence from this period. There were no powerful Kshatriyas covered in gold, eating from gold plates. They used a form of terracotta pottery called Painted Grey Ware (as seen above).

This culture is centered on Mathura. If Krishna was real, he would have eaten out of grey clay bowls. Gold jewelry is sparse. By comparison, the Mughal Period was far more opulent. People lived in daub (clay, mud and grass) huts, similar to how many poor famers and herders live today.

The Upanishads were being composed. As were the complex Vedic rituals like the Ashvamedha. Famous kings like Parikshit and Janamejaya lived. All would later be mythologized.

600 BCE

Moving forward four centuries we find the Mahajanapadas.

The Ganges plain is now teeming with trade and wealth is growing. Powerful kingdoms compete for primacy. Far from the massive marble palaces, fountains and hanging gardens found in BBT Art, even the great urban centers were made of wood, brick and mud.

The Kuru-Panchala kingdoms have collapsed or become republics. They will be absorbed by new powers emerging in the east, such as Magadha, who carry strange non-Vedic ideas from new religions such as Buddhism and Jainism. These would later combine with Vedic culture to create Hinduism.

Mahabharata

Later texts such as the Mahabharata would combine all of these periods together, as if all of these cultures existed simultaneously, since time immemorial. The wealth and influence of these peoples would be wildly exaggerated. India begins looking backwards towards a lost golden past.

The kingdoms of the Mahajanapada period would be simplified and represented as eponymous kings, the founders of dynasties. Thus the Anga dynasty becomes King Anga, a singular man.

These men would then interact with gods and demons, fly in spaceships, visit heaven, leap from mountains, etc. The scraps of history available to later generations were combined theatrically into a grand narrative, like a ten part Marvel movie franchise.

For example, the Kuru dynasty found its end at the hands of the invading Salva tribe, a non-Vedic peoples from what is now Rajasthan. In the Mahabharata, the Salva tribe becomes one man "Salva".

Salva hates Krishna because he was a friend of Shishupala. He also lusted after Rukmini and was humiliated when Krishna kidnapped her. Salva does penance to Shiva who orders Maya Danava to build him a spaceship. That spaceship, or flying city, is then used to attack Dwaraka.

For thousands of years this strange blend of history and fantasy was accepted as real. It would form the religious and ethical backdrop to the Vedic rituals which were preserved, and to newer tantric rituals which arose. ISKCON accepts these stories as real history to this day.

u/Solomon_Kane_1928 — 14 days ago

I am watching TNG and I noticed earthlings are found attractive by nearly everyone.

Dr Crusher and Deanna Troi (half human) set alien pulses racing, and sometimes even use their looks to gain advantage with non-humans. Captain Kirk and Commander Riker have a bevy of alien beauties to choose from. All seem eager for the Terran touch.

Few humans find Klingons and Ferengi attractive, yet they find humans attractive. Klingon women love to flirt with human men and even make them uncomfortable. Ferengi in particular are sometimes sex pests.

There are of course other attractive races. Kriosian Empathic Metamorphs such as Kamala (played by Famke Jassen). Vulcans, Orions, Betazoids, Bajorans, Trills, but earthlings seem to be considered all around attractive by other humanoids.

reddit.com
u/Solomon_Kane_1928 — 25 days ago