r/exHareKrishna

Asking from the experienced ones

Disclaimer : I wasn't in ISKCON for too long to participate in their jumping dancing.

I see many reels about Sankirtan dancing where people are moving the obscure dance formations and they term it as "transcedental" and "ecstatic bliss". If you have been part of that, what does being "transcedental" even mean?

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u/Lonely_Chair_9682 — 11 hours ago

Something is fishy

If Prabhupada was an empowered acharya, how come he could only write translations and purports for 13 / 90 chapters of the most important 10th canto of his most important work Srimad Bhagwatam?

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u/Lonely_Chair_9682 — 22 hours ago

The Truth About Vaikuntha Dress

In the above images we see classical depictions of Vishnu, Krishna and Rama. All Indian gods are more or less depicted wearing the same kinds of clothing and jewelry. Kshatriyas from the Vedic Period, such as the Pandavas, are shown wearing the same dress.

This style is the standard in BBT art. It is also found in Indian paintings, devotional prints, and in Bollywood films.

It is what Vishnu eternally wears in Vaikuntha and what Krishna wears in Dwaraka and Mathura.

Vishnu's Dress

Vishnu wears a towering golden crown with a sun disc in the back. There are elaborate golden arm bands on his biceps and jewelry hanging across his neck and chest. An udarabandha, a thin golden bracelet, is stretched across the stomach. A yajnopavita thread is hung over his left shoulder and under his right arm. The rest of his body is naked except for the dhoti and chadar. A flower garland rests prominently atop the regalia. When visible, the ankles are draped in bracelets.

This is how devotees are advised to meditate on Vishnu in manasa seva. The bhakta will imagine Vishnu standing on a lotus flower within his heart, dressed the same way.

This clothing is considered to reflect the Vedic period (1500 BCE - 500 BCE), when the events of the Mahabharata and Puranas were said to take place, when the gods and avataras walked the earth. Beyond that, we are told, this is the style of the spiritual world, an expression of Aishvarya Bhava.

Gupta Period Fashion

In truth, none of this stuff comes from the Vedic Period. It began to develop in the Early Classical Period (200 BCE) and found full expression in the Gupta Period (200 CE - 600 CE).

Vedic kings did not wear crowns, they wore turbans, often with jewels intricately attached (see fourth image). The golden crowns one sees Krishna wearing in BBT art are from roughly 1400 years after Krishna would have lived.

Armbands (khadi) were worn in the Vedic period as amulets, but they were much simpler than depicted in later art. The elaborate arm bracelets we see in BBT art are also from the Gupta Period.

Vedic kings did not wear large necklaces and gold plates that dripped down their chests. There wore smaller necklaces made of threaded gold coins and only during festivals and rituals. Generally they wore bead necklaces, some hanging low and some tight around the neck like a kunthi mala.

Indian kings did not wear complex golden jewelry until the Gupta Period, when trade with Rome brought all sorts of gems, beads and precious metals previously unavailable.

The belly necklace (udarabandha) was also not worn until much later, and was not popularized until the Gupta Period. It was meant to correct posture and emphasize a strong abdomen for aesthetics.

There were no yajnopavita threads. These are the three intertwined strands of cotton that ISKCON wrongly calls "Brahman threads". This also evolved much later during the Early Classical Period.

Kings in the Vedic Period did not wear ankle bracelets. It was considered effeminate. Only much later did men start wearing a large solid clasps around their lower legs. A Vedic king would not be caught dead wearing soft dainty chains around his ankles.

The only thing Vedic kings did wear were the upper and lower cloth, and the flower garland.

Why Gupta Dress?

As we can see, Gupta Period dress became spiritualized, frozen in time, as the very image of transcendent culture. How did this happen?

Well the answer is simple. It was during the Gupta Empire that the Puranas were written and the gods were created as we understand them.

Their dress reflects the time period their iconography was designed. It is also the first time India became wealthy and royalty could dress in such finery.

The Guptas also made carvings of gods in their own dress, and this cemented the image into the Indian psyche. Simply put, they are the gods of the Guptas.

u/Solomon_Kane_1928 — 2 days ago

The True Origins of the Panca Tattva

Hinduism is not a religion in the Western sense. It is a culture one is born into. There is no central text and no singular authority. Subsequently there is no system in place to grant legitimacy. Hinduism is a patchwork of personality cults. Each new cult must grant itself legitimacy by tying itself to an accepted authority from the past.

The Fight for Legitimacy
Indian religion can be thought of as a boiling pot of water. Cults rise to the surface and then disappear in a never ending process. They may pop like a bubble or simply sink beneath the surface to be forgotten. Orthodoxy grants staying power.

Cults are desperate to survive. As soon as a guru gains followers and influence, he begins the fight to be included within orthodoxy. Competition is fierce and gurus resort to desperate measures.

This is why Prabhupada was constantly attacking other cult leaders, even his own godbrothers. It is the "crabs in a bucket" mentality. The cult leader must declare himself to be the only true representative of orthodoxy, he is teaching the truth "as it is". All other cults must be kicked down into the boiling water.

My Guru is God!
The fastest way to claim orthodoxy and gain followers is to directly identify oneself with the Supreme Brahman. This is a risky strategy, but if you can pull it off, the rewards are huge. On the flip side, any flaw in the guru's behavior can be catastrophic for his reputation.

A safer route is to declare oneself to be a god, the partial ray of a god, a guru or godman from the past, a figure from mythology, or an incarnation of a servant from the spiritual world. This gains legitimacy while minimizing the risk.

Chaitanya's Cult
Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was a charismatic figure. His presence alone was enough to grant legitimacy, at least in the eyes of millions in eastern India. Still, he too came to be seen as a combination of Radha and Krishna.

Following his death in 1534, his cult split into competing factions. The most charismatic among his followers established their own personality cults called sampradayas or parivars, and began fighting over the power and influence Chaitanya had amassed.

Chaitanya left no centralized text or system of authority to grant legitimacy. Prabhupada would try to resolve this same issue by creating the GBC.

The Parivars
Nityananda's cult was based in Northeastern Bengal. After his death his wife Jahnavi Devi assumed control. It was focused on converting everyone of all castes and backgrounds, including Tantric Buddhists. It was highly egalitarian, liberal and unorthodox. Nityananda was known for preaching to those considered fallen.

Advaita's cult was based in Shantipur. In contrast to Nityananda's cult, it was closer to orthodox Brahminism. Similar to the later Bhadralok Gaudiya Vaishnavas of the British Raj, which included Bhaktivinode Thakur, it attracted the educated elite.

Gadadhara's cult was based in Puri and focused on raganuga bhakti. It emphasized the cultivation of ecstatic devotion and internal meditation, much like Chaitanya in his final years.

Srivasa's cult was based in Navadwip and was centered on the performance of kirtana and the cultivation of householders. Think nama hatta programs.

Inventing The Pancha Tatva
These cults began to compete for followers, to criticize each other, to push each other down like crabs in a bucket as they each fought for legitimacy. To stop the Chaitanya movement from splitting apart, Svarupa Damodara and Krishnadas Kaviraja, the first theologians of the movement, invented the Pancha Tattva.

These competing cults were declared to be co-equals, all carrying the legitimacy of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. They are different limbs of Chaitanya himself, descended to fulfill his mission. The Pancha Tattva is a theological and political construct meant to unite a movement.

Each member of the Pancha Tattva is made into an avatara:

Mahaprabhu is the incarnation of Krishna, in the mood of Radha, acting as his own devotees.
Nityananda is the incarnation of Balarama.
Advaita is the incarnation Maha Vishnu and Shiva.
Gadadhara is the incarnation of Radha.
Srivasa is the incarnation of Narada, the pure devotee.

Thus all the cults are united and granted legitimacy.

The Pancha Tattva Mantra
For this purpose, the Pancha Tattva mantra was also created and instituted by Svarupa Damordara and Krishnadasa Kaviraja.

Before the chanting of the Maha Mantra, all Gaudiya cults must reaffirm they are united and legitimate. The mantra declares "we are all one Gauda Bhakta Vrnda", one large cult.

This worked. It sealed the rift, ensuring Gaudiya Vaishnavism would survive and prosper.

Gaura Gadadhara and Gaura Nitai
The different parivars still maintained their individual emphasis. This was expressed by uniting their specific cult leader to Chaitanya directly on their altars, as an assertion of identity.

Thus the Gadadhara parivars worship Gaura Gadadhara in the mood of romantic love. The Nityananda parivars worship Gaura Nitai in the mood of fraternal love.

Why Does ISKCON Worship Gaura Nitai?
The Nityananda lineage had come to dominate Gaudiya Vaishnavism, but it was based on bloodline, the Jati Gosais descended from Nityananda's son Virabhadra. Prabhupada's own lineage, coming from Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati, was practically at war with the Nityananda parivar. So it is strange that ISKCON worships Gaura Nitai.

Prabhupada chose to institute the worship of Gaura Nitai because of Nityananda's unorthodox nature. Nityananda was known for preaching to the outcastes, yavanas, mlecchas, Buddhists. In the eyes of Prabhupada, that is who we are.

This is why in ISKCON we were trained to worship the strange figure of Nityananda. He was a follower of Chaitanya who started his own cult. Due to the political needs of the time he was deified. We were made to worship him because our cult leader, Prabhupada, felt that we were fallen outcasts, born outside Vedic Brahminical culture, and needed his mercy.

u/Solomon_Kane_1928 — 3 days ago

Everyone is an Avatara!

(pictured: Sai Baba as Kalki)

As a devotee I secretly found it difficult to accept that everyone in Chaitanya Lila is an avatara of someone else. It seemed so sentimental and irrational.

Incarnations Everywhere!

There are full incarnations, partial incarnations, mixed incarnations. Advaita Acharya is declared to be half Maha Vishnu and half Sada Shiva. Ramananda Roy is a mixture of Arjuna, Arjuna Gopa, and Visakha Gopi.

Anyone mentioned in the Chaityanya Caritamrta must be from Goloka, or at least from the Puranas or Mahabharata. They could be Vyasadeva, Brihaspati or Brahma.

I found Nityananda particularly hard to accept. Here is this guy who shows up out of nowhere, behaves strangely, then kind of goes off and does his own thing. He is accepted as Balarama and as important as Chaitanya. It just seemed weird. It always struck me as forced.

Any guru in the parampara worth their weight turns out to be a Manjari from Vrndavana.

This tendency is not something safely frozen in the past. It continues into our present time. Prabhupada is thought to be an incarnation of Subala Sakha. He is the "Senapati Bhakta" predicted in scripture to conquer the world for Krishna.

The entirety of 16th century Bengal has become an avatara. It descended whole cloth from the spiritual world. Chaitanya Lila is eternal and goes on in Shvetadwipa, the outer mandala of Goloka.

A Broader Problem

This is not something that only exists in Gaudiya Vaishnavism. It causes problems everywhere in Hinduism, where every two bit guru declares himself (or herself) to be an incarnation.

Sai Baba declared himself to be Krishna, Shiva, and Durga. Whatever you worship, it turns out it is him.

Guru Maharaj Ji, aka Balyogi, declared himself to be Krishna and his mother to be Durga. When he married a Western flight attendant she became Radha. Durga did not approve of Radha. Krishna had become corrupted by the sinful Westerners. She fired Krishna and his brother became the new incarnation.

The contemporary guru Nithyananda has declared himself to be the 1008th incarnation of Parama Shiva. This is the highest possible form of Shiva, tantamount to the Western concept of God.

ISKCON distances itself from these "charlatans" but it is really no different. Nor are the Vaishnava lineages in the past.

An Ancient Tradition

Ramanuja was Ananta Sesa, Lakshmana and Balarama. The Alvars are thought to be Vishnu's weapons, instruments and attendants. Madhva is Vayu, Bhima and Hanuman. Shankaracharya is Shiva (I mean it's in the name).

At some point we have to admit how ridiculous this all is. Why is there this need to look at one's guru and imagine they are something utterly transcendent and inconceivable, or a beloved figure from mythology?

It seems to me to be fanaticism. It is a psychological tool to induce self surrender through suspending reason. It is seductive tendency for those looking to deepen their "bhava".

When communities do it together, reinforcing such beliefs among each other, often with the approval of the guru, it becomes the basis of a personality cult.

u/Solomon_Kane_1928 — 4 days ago

The Buddha and ISKCON/Gaudiya Vaishnavism

Most likely an example of Vaishnavite cultural assimilation/absorption, trying to capitalize on the Buddha's (Siddhartha Gautama's) legacy maybe. My parents took me to a class in regards to this once at my local ISKCON temple. And the entire time, I was so mentally defeated by all the stuff being spouted. What are your guy's thoughts on this topic?

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u/Striking_Cake6252 — 4 days ago

Please Advise Me and Guide Me

"I was born into a traditional Gaudiya Vaishnava family. Later, a local temple president manipulated my parents into joining ISKCON. They became dedicated disciples of Jayapataka Swami.

I recently made some posts about my situation, but I never introduced myself or revealed my identity.

Now, my parents force me to go to the temple. The temple president is very rude and arrogant. He treats people like his personal servants. When I was younger, they tried to send me to a boarding school (gurukul) in Mayapur. It did not happen, but I remember my mom crying when they rejected me. Looking back, I am glad I did not go.

Recently, I researched ISKCON's history. I read about the controversies involving Prabhupada, Keith Ham (New Vrindaban), Lokanath Swami, and Bhakti Vidya Purna Swami.

When I told my parents, they got very angry. They argued and said that God would never allow those things to happen. Now, they are threatening to call the police if I keep talking about it. I feel trapped and I need help."

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u/Fun-Following-7054 — 4 days ago

Masturbation is not an addiction — It’s normal human biology

One thing I keep seeing in this forum is people still repeating the old brahmacharya talking points about masturbation being some kind of addiction that drains your “energy,” damages your mind, or destroys your spiritual life. This is leftover cult programming.

In the Hare Krishna world we were taught that sexual energy was something mystical and dangerous. Masturbation was taught ti be a moral failure, a loss of “vital force,” or evidence that we were controlled by the lower "gunas". The idea was that semen contained spiritual power or helped intelligence and that losing it weakened your body and consciousness. None of this has any scientific basis.

Modern medical and psychological research is very clear that masturbation is a normal part of human sexual development and behavior. It occurs across cultures, age groups, genders, and in the wider animal kingdom. It’s associated with stress relief, sexual self-awareness, improved sleep, and general well-being. It’s also extremely common. Studies consistently show that the majority of adults masturbate at least occasionally.

It does not “sap energy.” It does not damage the brain. It does not create spiritual decline.

Those ideas come from pre-scientific religious beliefs about bodily fluids, purity, gods and sages "spilling their seed" blah blah blah. Similar ideas existed in victorian Europe and in various religious traditions long before modern biology existed.

Another thing worth clearing up is the word "addiction". Addiction is a clinical term used for substances or behaviors that produce dependency, tolerance, withdrawal symptoms, and serious life impairment. Masturbation does not produce physical withdrawal, and most people can stop or change the behavior without medical intervention. Anything you see state otherwise in 2026 is baseless outdated science BS or Christian and other religious crap.

Can someone develop a habit around sexual behavior? Of course. Humans can develop habits around anything: social media, junk food, gaming, exercise, work, religion. If something starts interfering with your life, relationships, or responsibilities, you adjust it. But that’s very different from claiming the act itself is inherently addictive or harmful.

What many former devotees are actually dealing with is religious guilt, not addiction. When you spend years hearing that normal sexual behavior is sinful, degrading, or spiritually contaminating, your brain starts attaching shame to something that is otherwise completely ordinary.

Leaving the cult means unlearning that conditioning. Not endless bizarre mystical explanations about semen retention, gunas, karma, and “lost spiritual potency.” Those ideas come straight out of the same belief system many of us are trying to untangle ourselves from. Human sexuality is part of being human.

If masturbation is something you do occasionally and it doesn’t interfere with your life, there’s nothing wrong with it. If it’s something you’d rather not do, you can stop or reduce it just like any other behavior. If you are in the cult and find it "impossible" to stop or balance it, then it is likely directly tied to the cult repressive ideology that is making you think about and want sex all the time. Or you're between the age of 12 and 17 and its NORMAL.

But framing it as a spiritual catastrophe or an addiction is simply repeating the same cult logic we grew up with. And many of us left precisely because we wanted our lives guided by reality rather than guilt and shame based mythology and mindless ideological garbage.

Trust me. Sexual desire and peak enjoyment from sex lasts a few good years of your life. After age 30 it slows way down and you have to reframe your relationship to it anyway. Nature has a way and reason for the flame to die down. But as highly evolved animals, we can enjoy a great sex life for lot longer than our poor ancestors did.

Fapananda ki jai!

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u/Happy_Captain2801 — 5 days ago

Gaudiya / ISKCON obsession with feet?

I know this is a general idea in Hinduism, but it’s stressed so much more in ISKCON / Gaudiya circles as someone who’s had experiences with both regular Hindu Indians and Hare Krishna cultists.

The obsession with Krishna’s “lotus feet”, and especially Radha’s lotus feet. It’s honestly really weird when you realize that some old ass sadhus are meditating about Radha’s feet when they also say she’s eternally 14. Always kinda weirded me out.

Anybody know how this developed or just has further info on it? Or opinions

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u/spiralbasil1 — 4 days ago

I don't mean to seem naive, but it always bothered me that ISKCON always seeks to manage their child abuse cases internally.

I believe to ultimately be a means of protecting perpetrators and a weaponization of their distrust of anything outside of them. despite their manipulation of media and legal connections would things be more effective if they simply handed the cases over to the police instead of trying to do everything internal which is likely another mechanism of the in which it tries to incompetently function as it's own government.

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u/MoonRiver_069 — 4 days ago

I feel so angry with myself for getting duped into this bs

Been in the iskcon world since my 20s, I married a man who temple management said was an “amazing” devotee. Said temple management encourages the wife serves the man hand and foot concept but then when I do that and had to give up my temple services because my husband wanted me at home serving him hand and foot, the management who had previously showered me with love and affection completely stonewalled me and acted like I didn’t exist anymore, I was devastated, I thought these people really cared about me. My husband just constantly demanded that I do this and that for him, my life wasn’t my own anymore, it was all about him and what he wants, he took over any money I had and started telling me what I can and can’t do with it. And the temple management and gurus had basically put this kind of ideology in his head, that the wife is there to serve him and I was groomed to be a servile and brainless wife who does anything the husband wants. I feel angry that I was taken in by these people that don’t actually give two fucks about me. It’s taken years to see this for the cult it is. God, I feel so angry with myself for wasting so much time and allowing myself for being treated so poorly.

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u/green_fairy8 — 5 days ago

The Mysterious Origins of Jagannath

The deities of Jagannath Baladeva and Subhadra are part of ISKCON's global identity. Jagannath's face is central to ISKCON's branding, appearing on everything from bumper stickers to umbrellas to sweatshirts. The Ratha Yatra festivals occurring in major cities throughout the world are ISKCON's largest events.

Lord of the Mlecchas

Prabhupada insisted the Jagannath trimurti be installed in all of his temples. This is because Bhaktisiddhanta, born in Puri to the administrator of the temple, wanted Jagannath worship to be established worldwide. Jagannath is considered merciful to the fallen, and non-Indians are fallen.

As devotees we were taught Jagannath is not strict. Anyone can worship him. He is not easily offended. Shyamasundara, the first devotee to carve Jagannath (or any deity) in ISKCON, was smoking cigarettes while he was carving him.

Children in ISKCON are often given Jagannath deities as toys. Prabhupada himself was given toys of Jagannath and would perform ratha yatras with them. Thus for the ignorant Yavanas and Mlecchas, Jagannath is the best deity. We are like tribal peoples.

The Sabar Peoples

To this day Jagannath's worship is not entirely Vedic or Brahminical.

It is widely believed he began as the Adivasi tribal deity of the Sabar peoples. For millennia, the members of that tribe have had special privileges in his worship. Their descendants, the Daitapatis, are not Brahmanas, and chant no Vedic mantras, but they handle the body of Jagannath directly. They perform the most intimate aspects of his worship and are considered to be his own family members.

Even Jagannath's prasad is prepared in the tribal fashion. No non-Indian vegetables are allowed, including potatoes, tomatoes, chilies. Rough grains are boiled in clay pots.

The Adivasi peoples of Odisha worshiped wooden poles as deities and still do today. Their god Kitung is believed to reside within these poles, as well as their ancestors. In much the way Jagannath is fashioned, a special tree is chosen by a shaman and given its shape. Large saucer like eyes are carved at the top of the pole, because these are protector deities that watch over the village.

The Sabara tribe worshiped one deity: Kitung. The neighboring Kondh tribe worshiped three deities, representing earth spirits: Murvi Penu, Tana Penu, and Jakeri Penu. Murvi Penu merged with Kitung to create Jagannath. Tana Penu (the earth goddess) became Subhadra. Jakeri Penu became Balarama.

Buddhism and Jainism (300 BCE)

Following the conversion of Ashoka, Buddhism spread into Kalinga (Odisha). Buddhists and Jains reinterpreted these tribal deities in their own way.

The three murtis were (and still are) seen to represent the Triratna, or three jewels of Buddhism: the Buddha, the Dharma, and the Sangha. It is believed the Ratha Yatra began as a Buddhist procession. Unlike Hindu deities, which remained in temples, Buddhists brought their deities into the streets and drew them in carts.

There is also a tradition stating the Buddhas tooth, a sacred relic, was kept in Puri, then known as Dantapura (City of the Tooth). Buddhists believe this tooth is still inside the current deity of Jagannath.

Later, when the Buddha was adopted as an avatara of Vishnu, Jagannath would directly be seen as a deity form of the Buddha. The tradition in Odisha of all castes sharing mahaprasada equally is also thought to derive from Buddhist egalitarianism.

Jains similarly interpret the three deities as representing their three jewels: right faith, right knowledge, and right conduct.

Jains interpreted the black Jagannath as the unmanifest Sunya. Subhadra was seen as Shakti or the power of creation. Baladeva was understood to represent the manifest universe.

Brahmanism (400 CE)

As Brahmanism spread through Odisha, these deities were given brick and stone temples. Vedic worship was instituted. This would culminate in the massive temple which stands today, completed in 1161 CE by the Eastern Ganga Dynasty, with Jagannath being made the state deity.

During this period Shaktas, Vaishnavas, Shaivites and Sauras (Sun worshipers) successively developed their own interpretations of these three deities.

Shaktism (600 CE - 800 CE)

The first Hindus to claim Jagannath as their own were Shaktas. During the rule of the Bhauma-Kara Dynasty, Odisha was a center for both Tantric Buddhism and Kapalika Shaktism.

Rather than Jagannath being the main deity, it was Subhadra. She was seen as Adyashakti Durga or Bhuvaneshwari, the Shakti of the cosmos. She was flanked by her two consorts, both forms of Shiva.

Jagannath was seen as Mahakala Bhairava, Shiva as the Destroyer. Rather than the protective glance of the village deity, or Krishna's eyes filled with love for his devotees, Jagannath's large saucer eyes emanated death and destruction, a visage of divine rage.

Baladeva in contrast was the pacified and calm form of the same deity, Aghora Shiva (not ghastly or fearful). He was seen as the white colored Sankarshana Rudra, a peaceful ascetic smeared with ash.

Shaivism (800 CE - 900 CE)

During this period the Tantric Shaivite Keshari Dynasty ruled. Jagannath was still identified with Mahakala Bhairava Shiva, but now he became the focus rather than Subhadra. Bimala Devi was installed as his consort, and identified with Bhairavi.

Bhaktisiddhanta was named Bimala Prasad in connection to this deity, as all Jagannath Prasad must be offered to her to this day before it can be eaten.

Subhadra was understood to be a fierce form of Shakti, known as Ekanamsha.

Baladeva was still Aghora Shiva, but instead of being peaceful, he became active and destructive.

Vaishnavism (1000 - 1100)

The Eastern Ganga Dynasty were Vaishnavas. The temple shifted from Shaivism to Vaishnavism. Concessions were made so as not to cause friction.

Jagannath was newly identified Maha Vishnu, or Purushottama Narayana. He started to be worshiped with Vaishnava mantras.

Subhadra became identified with Lakshmi. However to this day she is worshiped with Shaivite mantras appropriate to Bhuvaneshwari.

Baladeva at first retained his identification with Shiva. Over time, the Vaishnava shift increased and Baladeva, or Balabhadra, became identified with Sankarshana, the second of the Chatur Vyuha.

To this day, Baladeva is worshiped with Shaivite mantras which address him as Aghora Shiva. Baladeva's chariot is crowned with a Shiva Dhvaj flag and is guarded by Nandi.

The Eastern Ganga Dynasty were also Sauras and patrons of the Konark Sun Temple. It is believed the Sudarshana Chakra on the spire of the temple, aside from being Vishnu's chakra, is a reference to the Sun. The Sudarshana Chakra which stands as a pillar beside Jagannath is also thought to represent Surya.

Krishnaism (1500 CE)

At the time of Chaitanya another layer was added. Jagannath began to be worshiped as Krishna. Subhadra became his sister. Balabhadra became his brother Balarama.

Jagannath was connected to Radha Krishna lila. Ratha Yatra was now Krishna being pulled forcibly to Vrndavana. The festival became inextricably connected to the kirtana movement. He became a prominent deity within Gaudiya Vaishnavism and is second in popularity only to Goddess Kali in Bengal.

One God To Unite Them All

The origins of Jagannath Baladeva Subhadra and Sudarshana are shrouded in mystery and there are countless academic theories. What makes the most sense to me is they developed in layers over centuries.

As these layers were added, they both preserved and unified the culture. Each piece is added like dishes in a multi-generational potluck. This process is colorful and informal. Jagannath developed alongside the people of Eastern India and represents their history and culture. In a way, he is them.

The Jagannath temple is for everyone, of all Indian faiths. Everyone adds their gods to the communal altar and views them through their own theological eyes. This is allowed and encouraged. This is perhaps why the deities appear so unusual. Jagannath is a fusion deity.

Puri is not Vaishnava, Shaivite, Shakta, Buddhist, Jain or Sabara. It is all of these things at once and everyone is okay with it. This is how the rulers of Odisha have wanted it. No one should feel excluded.

He is the state deity of Odisha. All people are unified in his worship, from the royal family to the tribal peoples. From a political perspective, that is his purpose, and always has been. Whatever belief system becomes popular is added as another ingredient in the communal pot.

u/Solomon_Kane_1928 — 6 days ago

Matchless Gift Magazine No.33

Saw this and thought of our posts and comments about Jesus in India (allegedly).

Will Jesus become a Kashmiri Shaivite next?

This is from a series of magazines called Matchless Gift , a UK online store. Their "young Prabhupada" merch (pic 2) is also peculiar.

I get putting swami version Prabhupada on merch, as people recognize him. Why would they put regular Abhay Charan De on their hoodies though?

u/psumaxx — 6 days ago

Chanting before sunrise - experiences, effects, sleep deprivation?

I'd love to know what it was like for you to be obliged to chant / attend the morning program very early in the morning.

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u/Akronitai — 6 days ago

Thoughts on Karmic Reincarnation

What are y'alls thoughts on karmic reincarnation, more specifically in the way that it is presented in Gaudiya Vaishnavism and/or ISKCON? Positives? Negatives? Please share!

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u/Striking_Cake6252 — 7 days ago

My boyfriend is a devotee

My boyfriend of three years is a devotee and he trusts this cult a lot ...he was somewhere around 10-12 years old when someone from this cult inspired him a lot and then he joined it and left non-vegetarian food completely for at least 5-6 years and also forced his parents and his younger brother to do the same. As far as I know his parents were not ready for this major lifestyle change but somehow he convinced them. Now after 5-6 years he again started eating chicken and egg but he remains to be a devotee with his parents and his brother. Now that he is 26 years old he wants to get married and again live this full devotee life (he again started eating non veg because he had shifted from his parents house to a city so that he can study in a good school and college). Now whenever I have decided to tell him about the stories of this sub and this affected people he always shuts me down. Now I must admit that my knowledge of this topic is anyway quite less and I would like to know what I should read and make him read as well to gain knowledge about the atrocities done by this cult.

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u/Agile_Bed_3864 — 7 days ago

ISKCON's Ties to Hindutva Extremism

Dr. Prakasarao Velagapudi came to the US in 1965, the same year as Prabhupada. Despite living among Americans for 60 years, he heads a radical right wing organization active in India. The Global Hindu Heritage Foundation is dedicated to "protecting Sanatana Dharma and Bharata Mata" by rooting out "concealed Christians".

Velagapudi openly calls for the destruction of Christian churches. Hindus must be inoculated against Christian teachings using the Bhagavad Gita. Suspected Christians must not be allowed into temples. Indian Christians and Muslims should be forcibly converted to "Sanatana Dharma" in a process called "Ghar Wapsi", or returning home.

Meanwhile, in the US, among Americans, those who welcomed him into their country, he desires the opposite. He hypocritically wants to see Americans converted to Hinduism and for Hindu temples to proliferate. He praises when Westerners convert to Hinduism, and like Prabhupada, uses zealous Western converts as examples of how Indians are lax in their practice.

For this reason he supports ISKCON. He appreciates the conversion of Western Christians to Hinduism, but more importantly, he sees ISKCON as a way for Indians in America to hold on to their heritage. Thus he encourages Indians to donate to building massive temples, like ISKCON "Gita Mandir" in Frisco Texas, which is currently in its fundraising stage. In the above video Dr. Prakasarao is seen standing at the ISKCON Gita Mandir building site calling for donations.

Frisco has become a hotbed on social media for the debate on Indian immigration in America, the abuse of the H1B visa system, and the growing influence of Hindutva politics.

Is this the future of ISKCON? Is it destined to be dominated by right wing politics driven by an increasingly powerful Indian diaspora with ties to Hindutva organizations?

Is ISKCON being refashioned into a bulwark of Hindu identity in the world, protecting Indians from becoming Westernized, while "conquering the Mleccha world for Hinduism and India"? Will it become a reactionary Hindu movement dedicated to persecuting non-Hindus in India while converting non-Hindus abroad? If so, that is not too far off from what Prabhupada wanted.

u/Solomon_Kane_1928 — 9 days ago

How is it possible that there hasn’t been a documentary fully exposing ISKCON yet?

I understand that ISKCON is rich and and that they have a strong PR/‘shush critics’ department but surely so do other cults that have recently been exposed on Netflix documentaries. Like the Twin Flame cult, the one on Osho, most recently that guy from the LDS church that started his own cult.

There’s so much horror and literal crime that’s gone down, surely good journalists/producers/film makers would have a full plate putting together a documentary to expose these charlatans.

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u/Character-Signal5587 — 8 days ago