u/Tbolt_65

After putting some serious time in at Euchre 3D. After years of casual rated. Playing very scarcely. With more casual than anything until this past rolling calendar year. I have some numbers for you to think about. Plus I have my own firm conclusion about this app now. That I am completely confident about.

Mind you when I say days. I dont mean culmative days played on the app. I mean days as in Monday through Sunday. Type days. As in consecutive days played. Or total days played. If there was a break and there was.

Ok down to business.

I've played at all sorts of websites and apps over the years. I've attained the highest rung and or rating at all of them. I can now say 3d rated. Is hands down the worst with its quirks. Every site has them. If you play long and often enough you'll see it. I've said this on numerous occasions.

People like to talk about variance in the game and I understand that. There is variance. However to get the type of variance I've experienced. Something has to be very wrong. I've never seen it so wrong at one place.

Starting from my peak on Feb. 26th at 2965 to March 7th 2593. Nine days of play. I dropped. -372points. 9days!!!

Then I had my accident on that day and I had a life re-adjustment. I didnt play for a long time. Thanks to Lefty. I started to play last week again. From August 4th to today. I've continued to drop another -129 pts. Although Im starting to make some progress from my bottom. The day isn't over yet. It's not as bad as the first 9 days, but these last at are still brutal.

In these brief days of play, it's barely half a month of play. I've seen my 56% win percentage go down to 53.1% plus my call percentage from 30% to 28.1%. I have about 4k total lifetime played on the app, only 3k and change on this phone. I've been losing a ton of games. Sure, everyone loses. No matter who you are but at the rate, I'm losing games to adversely affect my numbers like they have. I've never seen it before since I've become a consistently steady player. You will have ups and downs, but the type of downs Im experiencing is something crazy. Well, maybe I'm not as good as I think I am? Maybe I have too many flaws in my game? So that's why this is happening? I think not. Do I have flaws? Yes. Everyone does. However, my flaws are not so bad to cause such a high Variance. So what is it then? Good question. With what I've seen in card distribution, loners, and hand structuring. Plus, you factor in all the subpar play by partners. Which is part of the game and creates its built in variance coupled by how good one plays themselves. That will contribute to it. I believe algorithmically there is an issue that might be tied to rating of the players on the tables and perhaps the time of day as well. There certainly is definitely a pattern inbthe algorithm. That if you are in it. Unless you are on the favorable side. There is nothing you can do. There are too many first hand loners. Too many loners for the overall part. Plus too many hand configurations that give you an automatic calls regardless of skill. There are times that you'll have games more even and skill does rule the day. I find that is later at night and with higher rated. Mid day is completely different play it seems. Anyways I'm going on for a bit. These are my thoughts.

These thoughts, perspectives, observations and ramblings is not from someone new to the game. Nor new to the up and down nature that Euchre can be. Take it for what its worth.

VarianceMyButt

Edward

"...Twice in one week, for someone that don't play cards(post). You spend a lot of time in card rooms." -Rounders

I don't use one, program one or know much about them a part from the discussions over the years. So correct me if some of my assumptions are in correct.

My feelings in Simulators is they dont or cant pick up on nuances of the game. I highly doubt anyone is programming all the intricate scenarios that comes about during play. Its possible that for a singular situational play perhaps. I don't believe there is a hand to hand play out in response to the mitigating factors that are numerous in euchre. The Simulator speaks more to generalities. Which is fine but with out the complexity of hand for hand play and all that it entails. With the many nuances of the game and just plain euchre intuition. These things can have a vast impact on the game that raw data or numbers can't give you. Plus, the fact. That are the hands even being played correctly throughout the simulation scenarios? If there is even a slight variation. The numbers can be completely skewed. Perhaps with A.i. this might be a little better? I'm not sure. There is something to be said to know when to take chances for maximum point efficiency be that minimal point loss or maximum point gain. That may buck against the percentages. Anyways, just my thoughts. I may be missing another point or factors. I'll write about it or add if some thing else pops up.

Edward

Preface: Hello everyone. I know I don't contribute as much as I used to. Mainly because I have had a life incident that gave me a new perspective in life. That gave me new focus. Plus having an expense that you didn't have the funds for in the first place will keep you busy as well. Anyways. I want to give you all something to think about in the game of Euchre. I still love it. It will always be a part of me. Here are some of my thoughts. No doubt there will be disagreements or nit picking some of the ideology presented below but if anything. I want to give you all something deeper to think about when you think about refining and making your game better. If it does that. Makes you think just a little more than it's served its purposed. If you wish to employ what I've said below thats great. If you don't that's great too. It's up to you. I'm just sharing you my perspective. I hope it can have an impact and even if it doesn't I appreciate you taking the time to read. Enjoy and I hope this can help.

Bleeding Points

Bleeding points is kind of similar to bleeding trump. When you do it(Bleeding trump) you are missing out on points be it a march, euchre or even making a point by leading trump unnecessarily and clearing your partner out when you could have see-sawed it/or go back and forth with your partner in taking tricks with your remaining trumps in both hands. With bleeding points. It is similar in nature in the part of losing point opportunities but in this case. With Bleeding Points, you are giving up too much points by ordering too much. Which leads to your team being Euchred/Set. Which in a lot of games can and will be the difference maker. I've always talked about the little things adding up. This is one of those things and it's a big one. Now if you are playing with players that are timid and not calling as much. Then sure you really have to be more aggressive. How ever with competant partners you can and should be passing hands and allowing them to pick up. Hands like K-10d, K-Qc, 9s in S2R1 with a 9 diamond showing. You should be passing. At most scores with the exception of close out scores. Like 9-1, 8-4, 9-3. In hands where a euchre doesn't hurt you but getting two points or one point will win the game. The only other time you really should be ordering that hand is when your partner shows they can not pick up a bower/Jack. Then you must call that hand up if the Jack of diamonds is up to a weak partner in S4/Dealer. Now when passing, you still have a calling hand in clubs when it gets back to you. Its not like your will be double passing those types of hand combinations. If you are then you are too passive. Too passive and too agressive are both things you DO NOT want to be. Granted being too agressive will be better in the long run than too passive. You can get away with being too agressive and bleeding points vs. Teams or players that are much weaker in over all game play and whom passes too much. It will still hurt bleeding points but the weaker teams are going to give more chances to make that back up with the errors they routinely have and you can pick up points here and there. Against the stronger opponents up through to the higher end of play of players. Where these types of players are watching everything and have much better interplay game than the weaker players. They will eventually take advantage of this with better play of the hands and sitting back more(aka bagging) vs players who are prone to bleeding points. It is here where bleeding points hurts the most because every little detail can and will be the defining part of a game where if you only passed just a little more. You wouldn't be giving up points as much and you might even turn it around and make positive points when it gets back to you by calling in S2R2 or only giving up 1 point instead of 2 points. Which still is positive thing.

So that's just one example of over playing your hand and bleeding points. That's not the only scenario. If you are constantly losing games where euchre's are the difference maker or even over donating(Playing Defense) for that matter. Or any type of play that you are constantly losing points/giving up points. You must then re-evaluate what you could have done better. Realize that you may be leaking points/Bleeding Points. Bleeding points is a real thing. Always pay attention to every detail because it's in these little details that can change the out come of the game. Be it forgetfulness in what was boss card to being too agressive when it's not warranted.

I just want people to be aware of things like this so they can keep this in mind when playing. Sometimes we are not aware of things because we are not looking for them. Or we have never considered this line of play or thinking. To me for ideal and optimal play is something I would call an Adapative-Agressive Euchre style. Knowing your partner, your opponents, your cards and the score will always define the line of play because each line of play has those multiple variables in flux constantly. It is in being this Adapative-Agressive type of Euchre player and honing in on these factors and asking questions of yourself. That which will dictate how you will proceed in any given moment in the course of the game.

Edward

aka Tbolt65