u/Technical_Valuable2

tyrannosaurus and triceratops is the most famous predator prey matchup in history, we all remember when we were kids smashing our t rex and triceratops toys against each other and making them fight. but this matchup raises an interesting question. how did they start out? how did the relationship between tyrannosauroids and ceratopsians progress and change overtime? thats the purpose of this post. this is an abridged history of the relationship of predator and prey between tyrannosauroids and ceratopsians.

ive taken examplars of those 2 families from across their evolutionary history and display how they have changed throughout the milennia.

the journey begins in china some 160 million years ago in the shishugou formation. its the beginning of the late jurassic and the beginning of these lineages. Guanlong is small tyrannosauroid,notable for the crests on its head. Yinlong is among the most basal of ceratopsians and is a 1m long herbivore.

next we are still in china, 125 million years ago in yixian formation. ceratopsians are still small herbivores,as exemplified by the 2 m long psitaccosaurus. its named for its parrot like beak. But the tyrannosauroids have changed,yutyrannus is an 8m apex predator.

next we are in wyoming 110 million years ago. in north america, tyrannosauroids are still small predators. aquilops is a 1m long small herbivore.

fast forward 92 million years ago. in uzbekistan turanoceratops is still relatively small,only around 2 m in length. but it now has the horns and frill the family is famous for. timurlengia was a midsized predator around 4m or more in length. but in the bissekty formation,carcharodontosaurs and dromaeosaurs are the apex predators. in new mexico,zuniceratops was a small animal but had the horns and frill. suskityrannus was likely the largest predator in its ecosystem.

fast forward to the late campanian, and tyrannosaurids and ceratopsids as we know them finally evolved. in china 75 million years ago,the massive zhuchengtyrannus lived alongside sinoceratops. In north america,places like alberta canada and utah in the USA had a great variety of tyrannosaurids and ceratopsids.

now at 66 million years ago in north america,triceratops and tyrannosaurus themselves have evolved.

Art by cesar diaz and robinson krunz

When it comes to giant awe inspiring megatheropods,it is always the cretaceous period that people think of. Tyrannosaurus rex obviously comes to mind. More and more recently the megatheropods of mid cretaceous gondwana have been gaining ever more recognition. But the Jurassic seems to be oft underestimated and forgotten in this regard.

But that of course isn't the case. The Jurassic is when life on land started to get bigger than anything the world had seen before. 100 ft megasauropods,30 ft armored dinosaurs,etc all had their start of gigantism in the Jurassic and megatheropods are no exception. 

First things first the bench for the megatheropod will be set at 10m in length. For them to count as the Jurassic's largest they will have to be at least 10 m in length. Normally the benchmark is 5 tonnes but because jurassic theropods weren't quite as bulky as cretaceous theropods so I've made the benchmark more accessible. 

________________

Allosaurus anax 

Usa, oklahoma

Size: 10-13 m 4-7 tonnes

Formerly known as Saurophaganax,this is a giant species of allosaurus known from the upper Morrison in Oklahoma.

It's of course a highly fragmentary taxon,but the fragments available are indicative of a giant animal. The holotype scales up to 10.5 m in length according to Allosaurus anax description paper. Randomdinos have scaled the largest fragments up to 12 m in length and 6 tonnes in weight. According to one of the paper coauthors,some of the giant 13 m remains mentioned still belong to a theropod and not a misidentified sauropod.

So it possibly is the Jurassic record holder. Unfortunately it's so fragmentary.

Link 

 Link

__________________________________________________________

**“**Epanterias”

USA colorado

Epanterias is another giant fragmentary allosaurid from the upper Morrison formation. There's a lot less to say about this one because it's even more fragmentary and less studied than allosaurus anax. But most estimates have scaled it to around 12 m long.

Link

__________________________________

Torvosaurus (including ‘edmarka’ and the vega megalosaurid) 

PORTUGAL,USA,GERMANY,SPAIN?,ENGLAND?

Size: 10 meters long and 4 tonnes at least,biggest 11 to 12 meters in length and 5-6 tonnes in weight

Torvosaurus is a megalosaurid,possibly among the most widespread large theropod genus ever,both geographically and temporally. It is known from many specimens although most are fragmentary to be honest. A still not fully described specimen named elvis is about 55% complete however.

What is certain however is that it is big,probably the biggest megalosaurid. Specimens on both europe and north america come from clearly massive individuals.

In Portugal I've counted at least 4 individuals at least 10 meters in length (SHN 400/ML1100, ML632, ML 430, and SHN.388/8    ).

In the states several torvosaurus specimens are around 10 m in length. The pubis out of price Utah is from an individual of around 10 m long. The undescribed specimen ‘’elvis’’ is at least 10 meters in length according to mickey mortimer. The price pubis and the largest dry mesa specimens scale to at 10 m in length.

Some remains might belong to very large individuals. The largest crowns from portugal are 15 cm in crown height. This is bigger than almost any other theropod teeth,except for tyrannosaurus. Additionally its bigger than the crowns of the torvosaurus gurneyi holotype and elvis the torvosaurus,both whos largest crowns are 10-12 cm in height are individuals at least 10 m in length. Based on the data from christophe hendrickx,the maxilla crowns of torvosaurus had a ratio compared to the skull length of greater than 9. This means the large teeth came from a torvosaurus skull greater than 135 cm in length. Although teeth scaling is highly uncertain so let us all keep this in mind.

The Portuguese torvosaurus also has a giant footprint that was referred to the genus,simply put no other theropod in the formation was big enough to leave it,. A 79 cm footprint from the lourinha formation came from a trackmaker with a hip height greater than 3 meters. It's among the absolute largest theropod footprints known from the Jurassic. Papers studying Jurassic theropod footprints of similar size opined that tracks of this size indicate the largest Jurassic theropods were already on a par with the largest late cretaceus theropods in body size. Theres also another giant theropod footprint from the zambujal quarry (77cm length x 60 cm width)

Of course its a footprint,so it comes with caveats and a lot of uncertainty.

There's also the giant edmarka specimens. The ribs of the nail quarry torvosaurus are 1.28 m in length. The size can be estimated based on the close relative,wiehenvenator which was similarly robust to torvosaurus and similarly proportioned. Since wiehenvenators largest ribs are 1.05 m in length and it itself is estimated at 9-9.5 m in length,the ribs from edmarka can be scaled as coming from an individual 11-11.5 m in length. Randomdinos has also scaled the cps collection to 11.4 m in length. OOf course this rib could be one of the smaller ribs in the body,further indicating a larger size.

There's the giant vertebrae from Spain MUJA-1913 and the footprints from the same group. These come from the Ribadesella Group which is broadly dated to the kimmeridgian to tithonian of the late jurassic and are in asturias spain. The vertebrae is described as “25 percent larger than the anterior caudals of torvosaurus” and since those anteriors of torvosaurus come from a 9 meter animal,MUJA-1913 came from an ~11 meter long~ animal,which supported by comparing the centrum height,length and width to torvosaurus caudals. The giant footprints from asturias are up to 82 cm in length and regarded as “coming from an animal similar in size to tyrannosaurus” which likely means its 12 meters in length. Torvosaurus is known from germany to portugal in the late jurassic and asturias was part of the same island as portugal. Given this temporal and geographic overlap,combined with the vertebraes stated similarity to torvosaurus,the remains are here treated as belonging to torvosaurus.

The largest torvosaurus are estimated at 12 meters in maximum size. Multiple studies and the mentioned material likely supports this size,although of course the remains are fragmentary. The multitude of individuals that are at least 10 m in length supports the idea that the largest individuals were much bigger,based on the size distribution of other large theropods.

Link
 
Link 
 Link
 Link 
Link
Link 
Lin 
Link
link 
link 
Link 

____________________________

Veterupristisaurus 

Tanazania 

10-11 meters 3-4 tonnes

Veterupristisaurus is a carcharodontosaur from Tanzania. It comes from the tendaguru formation,the Jurassic forgotten Eden of Gondwana. It was one of the earliest known carcharodontosaurs.

Its size has been underestimated for a long time. Someone on wikipedia put its size at 8 m in length and as a result people have assumed it was large but not particularly big. But in reality the source they used was molina perez and larramendi,both of whom are disparaged as unreliable.

In reality, veterupristisaurus is estimated at being 10 m in length with some sources going as big as 11 m in length. Its only known from a few vertebrae but they are large nonetheless.

Link

________________________
Tendaguru thing 

Tanzania 

The tendaguru thing is an indeterminate megalosaur known from the tendaguru formation. Unfortunately it is fragmentary as hell and only known from a few bones and teeth.

Scaling the astragalus and fibula from the wiehenvenator, the tendaguru thing probably measured around 10 m in length. 

Link

_____________________

Yangchuanosaurus 
Middle or late jurassic 

China 

Yangchuanosaurus is a large metriacanthosaurid theropod from China. It's from the shaximiao formation, a rock series of uncertain age.  Unlike the other contenders it is actually known from decent remains,with a complete type specimen and partial but a decent referred specimen. The referred specimen alone is big,estimated at 10.5-11m in length and 3-4 tonnes in weight.

There is camp theropod, a massive femur chunk described almost a 100 years ago. If it belongs to yanghchuanosaurus,it would be massive,perhaps at least 12 m in length. But unfortunately there are so many unknowns about this specimen.

Link

Link

_________________

Vaches noires megalosaur

Middle jurassic
France

10 m or more in length

This is an unnamed megalosaur from the marnes d’ives formation from france. There's not a lot to say about it because it's known from fragmentary material. But the fragmentary material is clearly from a large animal. The estimated femur length of 1 m places it in the 10 m echelon of megalosaurs.

Link

_______________________

 

   

 

 

.  

Mods, I made a post like this months ago on my other account. But I wanted a remake. The first post was unsourced,not rigorous and no credit was given to the artists. I want to fix it.

Art by cesar diaz and robinson krunz

When it comes to giant awe inspiring megatheropods,it is always the cretaceous period that people think of. Tyrannosaurus rex obviously comes to mind. More and more recently the megatheropods of mid cretaceous gondwana have been gaining ever more recognition. But the Jurassic seems to be oft underestimated and forgotten in this regard.

But that of course isn't the case. The Jurassic is when life on land started to get bigger than anything the world had seen before. 100 ft megasauropods,30 ft armored dinosaurs,etc all had their start of gigantism in the Jurassic and megatheropods are no exception. 

First things first the bench for the megatheropod will be set at 10m in length. For them to count as the Jurassic's largest they will have to be at least 10 m in length. Normally the benchmark is 5 tonnes but because jurassic theropods weren't quite as bulky as cretaceous theropods so I've made the benchmark more accessible. 

________________

Allosaurus anax 

Usa, oklahoma

Size: 10-13 m 4-7 tonnes

Formerly known as Saurophaganax,this is a giant species of allosaurus known from the upper Morrison in Oklahoma.

It's of course a highly fragmentary taxon,but the fragments available are indicative of a giant animal. The holotype scales up to 10.5 m in length according to Allosaurus anax description paper. Randomdinos have scaled the largest fragments up to 12 m in length and 6 tonnes in weight. According to one of the paper coauthors,some of the giant 13 m remains mentioned still belong to a theropod and not a misidentified sauropod.

So it possibly is the Jurassic record holder. Unfortunately it's so fragmentary.

Link 

 Link

__________________________________________________________

**“**Epanterias”

USA colorado

Epanterias is another giant fragmentary allosaurid from the upper Morrison formation. There's a lot less to say about this one because it's even more fragmentary and less studied than allosaurus anax. But most estimates have scaled it to around 12 m long.

Link

__________________________________

Torvosaurus (including ‘edmarka’ and the vega megalosaurid) 

PORTUGAL,USA,GERMANY,SPAIN?,ENGLAND?

Size: 10 meters long and 4 tonnes at least,biggest 11 to 12 meters in length and 5-6 tonnes in weight

Torvosaurus is a megalosaurid,possibly among the most widespread large theropod genus ever,both geographically and temporally. It is known from many specimens although most are fragmentary to be honest. A still not fully described specimen named elvis is about 55% complete however.

What is certain however is that it is big,probably the biggest megalosaurid. Specimens on both europe and north america come from clearly massive individuals.

In Portugal I've counted at least 4 individuals at least 10 meters in length (SHN 400/ML1100, ML632, ML 430, and SHN.388/8    ).

In the states several torvosaurus specimens are around 10 m in length. The pubis out of price Utah is from an individual of around 10 m long. The undescribed specimen ‘’elvis’’ is at least 10 meters in length according to mickey mortimer. The price pubis and the largest dry mesa specimens scale to at 10 m in length.

Some remains might belong to very large individuals. The largest crowns from portugal are 15 cm in crown height. This is bigger than almost any other theropod teeth,except for tyrannosaurus. Additionally its bigger than the crowns of the torvosaurus gurneyi holotype and elvis the torvosaurus,both whos largest crowns are 10-12 cm in height are individuals at least 10 m in length. Based on the data from christophe hendrickx,the maxilla crowns of torvosaurus had a ratio compared to the skull length of greater than 9. This means the large teeth came from a torvosaurus skull greater than 135 cm in length. Although teeth scaling is highly uncertain so let us all keep this in mind.

The Portuguese torvosaurus also has a giant footprint that was referred to the genus,simply put no other theropod in the formation was big enough to leave it,. The footprint came from a trackmaker as big as 12 m. A 79 cm footprint from the lourinha formation came from a trackmaker with a hip height 3.5 meters. It's among the absolute largest theropod footprints known from the Jurassic. Papers studying Jurassic theropod footprints of similar size opined that tracks of this size indicate the largest Jurassic theropods were already on a par with the largest late cretaceus theropods in body size. Theres also another giant theropod footprint from the zambujal quarry (77cm length x 60 cm width)

Of course its a footprint,so it comes with caveats and a lot of uncertainty.

There's also the giant edmarka specimens. The ribs of the nail quarry torvosaurus are 1.28 m in length. The size can be estimated based on the close relative,wiehenvenator which was similarly robust to torvosaurus and similarly proportioned. Since wiehenvenators largest ribs are 1.05 m in length and it itself is estimated at 9-9.5 m in length,the ribs from edmarka can be scaled as coming from an individual 11-11.5 m in length. Randomdinos has also scaled the cps collection to 11.4 m in length. OOf course this rib could be one of the smaller ribs in the body,further indicating a larger size.

There's the giant vertebrae from Spain MUJA-1913 and the footprints from the same group. These come from the Ribadesella Group which is broadly dated to the kimmeridgian to tithonian of the late jurassic and are in asturias spain. The vertebrae is described as “25 percent larger than the anterior caudals of torvosaurus” and since those anteriors of torvosaurus come from a 9 meter animal,MUJA-1913 came from an ~11 meter long~ animal,which supported by comparing the centrum height,length and width to torvosaurus caudals. The giant footprints from asturias are up to 82 cm in length and regarded as “coming from an animal similar in size to tyrannosaurus” which likely means its 12 meters in length. Torvosaurus is known from germany to portugal in the late jurassic and asturias was part of the same island as portugal. Given this temporal and geographic overlap,combined with the vertebraes stated similarity to torvosaurus,the remains are here treated as belonging to torvosaurus.

The largest torvosaurus are estimated at 12 meters in maximum size. Multiple studies and the mentioned material likely supports this size,although of course the remains are fragmentary. The multitude of individuals that are at least 10 m in length supports the idea that the largest individuals were much bigger,based on the size distribution of other large theropods.

Link
 
Link 
 Link
 Link 
Link
Link 
Lin 
Link
link 
link 
Link 

____________________________

Veterupristisaurus 

Tanazania 

10-11 meters 3-4 tonnes

Veterupristisaurus is a carcharodontosaur from Tanzania. It comes from the tendaguru formation,the Jurassic forgotten Eden of Gondwana. It was one of the earliest known carcharodontosaurs.

Its size has been underestimated for a long time. Someone on wikipedia put its size at 8 m in length and as a result people have assumed it was large but not particularly big. But in reality the source they used was molina perez and larramendi,both of whom are disparaged as unreliable.

In reality, veterupristisaurus is estimated at being 10 m in length with some sources going as big as 11 m in length. Its only known from a few vertebrae but they are large nonetheless.

Link

________________________
Tendaguru thing 

Tanzania 

The tendaguru thing is an indeterminate megalosaur known from the tendaguru formation. Unfortunately it is fragmentary as hell and only known from a few bones and teeth.

Scaling the astragalus and fibula from the wiehenvenator, the tendaguru thing probably measured around 10 m in length. 

Link

_____________________

Yangchuanosaurus 
Middle or late jurassic 

China 

Yangchuanosaurus is a large metriacanthosaurid theropod from China. It's from the shaximiao formation, a rock series of uncertain age.  Unlike the other contenders it is actually known from decent remains,with a complete type specimen and partial but a decent referred specimen. The referred specimen alone is big,estimated at 10.5-11m in length and 3-4 tonnes in weight.

There is camp theropod, a massive femur chunk described almost a 100 years ago. If it belongs to yanghchuanosaurus,it would be massive,perhaps at least 12 m in length. But unfortunately there are so many unknowns about this specimen.

Link

Link

_________________

Vaches noires megalosaur

Middle jurassic
France

10 m or more in length

This is an unnamed megalosaur from the marnes d’ives formation from france. There's not a lot to say about it because it's known from fragmentary material. But the fragmentary material is clearly from a large animal. The estimated femur length of 1 m places it in the 10 m echelon of megalosaurs.

Link

_______________________

 

   

 

 

.  

When it comes to giant awe inspiring megatheropods,it is always the cretaceous period that people think of. Tyrannosaurus rex obviously comes to mind. More and more recently the megatheropods of mid cretaceous gondwana have been gaining ever more recognition. But the Jurassic seems to be oft underestimated and forgotten in this regard.

But that of course isn't the case. The Jurassic is when life on land started to get bigger than anything the world had seen before. 100 ft megasauropods,30 ft armored dinosaurs,etc all had their start of gigantism in the Jurassic and megatheropods are no exception. 

First things first the bench for the megatheropod will be set at 10m in length. For them to count as the Jurassic's largest they will have to be at least 10 m in length. Normally the benchmark is 5 tonnes but because jurassic theropods weren't quite as bulky as cretaceous theropods so I've made the benchmark more accessible. 

________________

Allosaurus anax 

Usa, oklahoma

Size: 10-13 m 4-7 tonnes

Formerly known as Saurophaganax,this is a giant species of allosaurus known from the upper Morrison in Oklahoma.

It's of course a highly fragmentary taxon,but the fragments available are indicative of a giant animal. The holotype scales up to 10.5 m in length according to Allosaurus anax description paper. Randomdinos have scaled the largest fragments up to 12 m in length and 6 tonnes in weight. According to one of the paper coauthors,some of the giant 13 m remains mentioned still belong to a theropod and not a misidentified sauropod.

So it possibly is the Jurassic record holder. Unfortunately it's so fragmentary.

Link 

 Link

__________________________________________________________

**“**Epanterias”

USA colorado

Epanterias is another giant fragmentary allosaurid from the upper Morrison formation. There's a lot less to say about this one because it's even more fragmentary and less studied than allosaurus anax. But most estimates have scaled it to around 12 m long.

Link

__________________________________

Torvosaurus (including ‘edmarka’ and the vega megalosaurid) 

PORTUGAL,USA,GERMANY,SPAIN?,ENGLAND?

Size: 10 meters long and 4 tonnes at least,biggest 11 to 12 meters in length and 5-6 tonnes in weight

Torvosaurus is a megalosaurid,possibly among the most widespread large theropod genus ever,both geographically and temporally. It is known from many specimens although most are fragmentary to be honest. A still not fully described specimen named elvis is about 55% complete however.

What is certain however is that it is big,probably the biggest megalosaurid. Specimens on both europe and north america come from clearly massive individuals.

In Portugal I've counted at least 4 individuals at least 10 meters in length (SHN 400/ML1100, ML632, ML 430, and SHN.388/8    ).

In the states several torvosaurus specimens are around 10 m in length. The pubis out of price Utah is from an individual of around 10 m long. The undescribed specimen ‘’elvis’’ is at least 10 meters in length according to mickey mortimer. The price pubis and the largest dry mesa specimens scale to at 10 m in length.

Some remains might belong to very large individuals. The largest crowns from portugal are 15 cm in crown height. This is bigger than almost any other theropod teeth,except for tyrannosaurus. Additionally its bigger than the crowns of the torvosaurus gurneyi holotype and elvis the torvosaurus,both whos largest crowns are 10-12 cm in height are individuals at least 10 m in length. Based on the data from christophe hendrickx,the maxilla crowns of torvosaurus had a ratio compared to the skull length of greater than 9. This means the large teeth came from a torvosaurus skull greater than 135 cm in length. Although teeth scaling is highly uncertain so let us all keep this in mind.

The Portuguese torvosaurus also has a giant footprint that was referred to the genus,simply put no other theropod in the formation was big enough to leave it,. A 79 cm footprint from the lourinha formation came from a trackmaker with a hip height greater than 3 meters. It's among the absolute largest theropod footprints known from the Jurassic. Papers studying Jurassic theropod footprints of similar size opined that tracks of this size indicate the largest Jurassic theropods were already on a par with the largest late cretaceus theropods in body size. Theres also another giant theropod footprint from the zambujal quarry (77cm length x 60 cm width)

Of course its a footprint,so it comes with caveats and a lot of uncertainty.

There's also the giant edmarka specimens. The ribs of the nail quarry torvosaurus are 1.28 m in length. The size can be estimated based on the close relative,wiehenvenator which was similarly robust to torvosaurus and similarly proportioned. Since wiehenvenators largest ribs are 1.05 m in length and it itself is estimated at 9-9.5 m in length,the ribs from edmarka can be scaled as coming from an individual 11-11.5 m in length. Randomdinos has also scaled the cps collection to 11.4 m in length. Of course this rib could be one of the smaller ribs in the body,further indicating a larger size.

The largest torvosaurus are estimated at 12 meters in maximum size. Multiple studies and The mentioned material likely supports this size,although of course the remains are fragmentary. The multitude of individuals that are at least 10 m in length supports the idea that the largest individuals were much bigger,based on the size distribution of other large theropods.

Link
 
Link 
 Link
 Link 
Link
Link 
Lin 
Link
link 
link 
Link 

____________________________

Veterupristisaurus 

Tanazania 

10-11 meters 3-4 tonnes

Veterupristisaurus is a carcharodontosaur from Tanzania. It comes from the tendaguru formation,the Jurassic forgotten Eden of Gondwana. It was one of the earliest known carcharodontosaurs.

Its size has been underestimated for a long time. Someone on wikipedia put its size at 8 m in length and as a result people have assumed it was large but not particularly big. But in reality the source they used was molina perez and larramendi,both of whom are disparaged as unreliable.

In reality, veterupristisaurus is estimated at being 10 m in length with some sources going as big as 11 m in length. Its only known from a few vertebrae but they are large nonetheless.

Link

________________________
Tendaguru thing 

Tanzania 

The tendaguru thing is an indeterminate megalosaur known from the tendaguru formation. Unfortunately it is fragmentary as hell and only known from a few bones and teeth.

Scaling the astragalus and fibula from the wiehenvenator, the tendaguru thing probably measured around 10 m in length. 

Link

_____________________

Yangchuanosaurus 
Middle or late jurassic 

China 

Yangchuanosaurus is a large metriacanthosaurid theropod from China. It's from the shaximiao formation, a rock series of uncertain age.  Unlike the other contenders it is actually known from decent remains,with a complete type specimen and partial but a decent referred specimen. The referred specimen alone is big,estimated at 10.5-11m in length and 3-4 tonnes in weight.

There is camp theropod, a massive femur chunk described almost a 100 years ago. If it belongs to yanghchuanosaurus,it would be massive,perhaps at least 12 m in length. But unfortunately there are so many unknowns about this specimen.

Link

Link

_________________

Vaches noires megalosaur

Middle jurassic
France

10 m or more in length

This is an unnamed megalosaur from the marnes d’ives formation from france. There's not a lot to say about it because it's known from fragmentary material. But the fragmentary material is clearly from a large animal. The estimated femur length of 1 m places it in the 10 m echelon of megalosaurs.

Link

_______________________

 

   

 

 

.  

When people think of giant prehistoric animals,people always jump to dinosaurs and other creatures. People always jump to the giant dinosaurs of the western usa or the giants of patagonia.  People think nothing of Europe,in fact in terms of prehistoric giants people consider it effectively unassuming. But this is unfair to Europe. Europe has had its fair share of prehistoric giants and this post's point is to highlight them. Specifically I will be going over the giants of the Jurassic period. It will not be restricted to dinosaurs.

Europe was an archipelago of islands during the Jurassic and as a result people think it is absent of giant animals,which isn't true.

______________________

Torvosaurus 

Time: middle to late jurassic

Size: 10 to 12 meters long and 4-6 tonnes

Distribution in Europe: Germany,Portugal,Spain?England?

Torvosaurus is a cult favorite theropod, not famous like t rex but beloved by paleo enthusiasts. It was one of the Jurassic's largest theropods. Its European distribution is primarily concentrated in the  lourinha formation from the late jurassic lourinha formation of Portugal. Referrable bones have been found in Germany and possible remains are known from England and Spain.

The bones from Portugal indicate a very massive animal. The fossils( SHN 400,ML1100,ALTSHN116, and ML632) already come from individuals at least 10 meters in length and 4 tonnes in weight. But evidence suggests it grew even bigger!

A massive theropod footprint (79 cm in length minus a concretion in the back) found in the lourinha formation was referred to the genus torvosaurus,simply put no theropod in Portugal was big enough to make that footprint,torvosaurus outsizes all of them. The individual that made this footprint was estimated to be 12 meters in length and 3.5 m tall at the hip. But why? Why is that length indicative of 12 m and not 10 or something else? For one the footprints condition,its a natural cast hyporelief on a carbonate bed,meaning its close in length to the real life foot. Its size is massive in context. It's one of the largest in the Jurassic and one of the largest known of any theropod. A 2018 paper stated that footprints of this size were indicative that the largest theropods of the Jurassic already reached sizes comparable to the largest theropods of the late Cretaceous. Another paper from renowned megalosaur expert Oliver rauhut,opined that similar sized theropod footprints in Spain likely came from an animal similar in length to tyrannosaurus. Torvosaurus also had feet proportionately short. Jim Madsen noted the toe bones of torvosaurus were unusually short and wide,which is reflected by the toe bones of the Cincinnati mount,the revered complete specimen nicknamed elvis. A giant footprint from t rex is 86 cm in length. Given how torvo had proportionately shorter toes and feet and its footprint is only slightly smaller,it further supports the footprint as coming from a giant.  To further back this up there are multiple giant theropod footprints from the late Jurassic of Portugal. The zambujal quarry footprint is 77 cm long and 60 cm. The Praia da Covalo footprint is 67 cm long x 56 cm wide. Cabo mondego is 60 cm long x 50 cm wide. There were also multiple giant footprints from Lapparent 1957 that were between 60-70 cm long.

The teeth of Portuguese torvo are also aberrantly gigantic. Torvosaurus has a very distinct dentition so the referral is of little doubt. The teeth from Portugal are massive, the crown height is 15 cm. To put this size into perspective,the crown height of the Portuguese teeth are larger than any other theropod crowns,except for tyrannosaurus itself. Tarbosaurus has crowns 12 cm in length,acrocanthosaurus has 12 cm crowns, and carcharodontosaurus has crowns 13 cm. Although teeth don't scale to body size perfectly, the sheer size of these teeth certainly are a tacit indication of a giant theropod. Although torvosaurus has elongated teeth,this doesn't mean they were proportionately longer saber tooth style. That metric of elongation is obtained by comparing the side to side width of the tooth by the total tooth's length, and equally is likely that torvosaurus just had teeth less wide than other large theropods like T rex. Many casts and mounts also exaggerate the tooth lengths for the sake of spectacle. Additionally the skull length of the teeths contributor can be estimated. Dr Christophe Hendrickx has looked at multiple torvosaurus specimens,glomming onto the variable size of the teeth. He came to the conclusion that given the variability in size, the maxillary crowns of torvosaurus will have a maxilla crown to skull length ratio of greater than 9. Multiplying the crown height times 9,it can be estimated that the torvosaurus that contributed the giant teeth had a skull over 135 cm in length.

There are also bones from the US that might support such big sizes. The edmarka specimens have gigantic bones,such as 1 meter plus shoulder blade and 1.3 m long ribs similar in size to those of large t rex specimens. Numerous specimens of torvosaurus already reached at least 10 m in length and it's not unlikely the largest were up to 12m,these scraps are probably evidence of those occasional giants. 

With this,torvosaurus stands as one of the Jurassic's largest theropods and probably europes largest theropod.

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Turiasaurus

Time: late jurassic

Distribution in Europe: Spain 

Size: 20-25 m 40-50 tonnes

Turiasaurus is a giant sauropod from Spain. It was found in the villar del arzobispo formation of Spain, a late Jurassic formation thought to be at least partially time equivalent to the lourinha formation. 

Turiasaurus was originally thought to be as big as 30-40 m in length. But this was before the morphology of its family was well understood. More recent estimates based on better understanding of its anatomy put its size at 20-25 m in length and 40 - 50 tonnes,certainly still a giant animal.

For example its humerus,the funny bone,was as long as a man is tall.

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Losillasaurus

Time: late jurassic

Distribution in europe: portugal and spain

Size: at least 20 m in length,possibly up to 47 tonnes

Losillasaurus is a turiasaurian sauropod,a close relative of turiasaurus itself. It is found in the lourinha formation of Portugal and the villar del arzobispo formation, being one of the few dinosaurs known from both formations.

The holotype specimen was already estimated at 15-18m in length with a 1.43 m humerus,but it was only a subadult. A new specimen found years later was of big size. It was at least 20 m in length,the femur was 1.92 m in length,tibia 1.25 m and the humerus 1.8m in length. There's also a femur in the SHN at torres vedra that possibly belongs to it that is 1.98 m in length.

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Lusotitan

Time:late jurassic

Distribution in europe: portugal

Size: 25 m long,15 m tall and 40-50 tonnes

Lusotitan is a brachiosaur from the lourinha formation of Portugal. Closely related to brachiosaurus itself,it was already a big animal with the type specimen being 20 m and 30 tonnes in weight. But more recently discovered specimens have now pushed its size up to 25 m and 40 to 50 tonnes. This possibly makes it the largest european dinosaur,rivaling turiasaurus and nomen nudum “francoposeidon”.

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Blue beach giant

Distribution in Europe: Portugal 

Time: late jurassic

Size: ~30 meters~ 20-25 m

Diplodocids are the swans of the sauropod,long and giant,but graceful and gracile. The lourinha formation of Portugal has been the best location of these. Dinheirosaurus was already 20-25 m in length and the unnamed diplodocine,SHN (JJS) 177-178, an animal similar in size to dippy the diplodocus,a 26 m long animal. But they pale in comparison to a larger specimen. This larger specimen is not fully described but nonetheless the institution was gracious enough to share much information. According to them, it is confidently a diplodocid. It was found in the praia azul locality and its nickname is the blue beach giant. 

This giant diplodocid is confirmed by the experts at the SHN of Torres vedras to be around 30 m in length. According to them one of the ribs is 2.2m in length. This rib size supports the estimate. If we assume this rib is the largest in the chest,it would scale to a 33 m long animal based on diplodocus. Granted there's a lot of unknowns when using just a rib and it's uncertain whether the rib is the largest in the chest. Nonetheless the giant rib is clearly indicative of a huge animal. There's also a giant sauropod footprint,with a morphology inconsistent with brachiosaurids,that supports such a giant size.

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Dacentrurus 

Time: late jurassic

Distribution in europe:portugal,spain,england

Size: 8-9 meters long and 6-7 tonnes

Dacentrurus is a giant stegosaur. It is an armored stegosaurian,closely related to stegosaurus itself. It was found across the European archipelago.

What's not talked about is its size,it was probably the largest stegosaur and by extension one of the largest dinosaurs ever. Its size is estimated to have been 9 meters and 7 tonnes.

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Stegosaurus 

Distribution in europe: portugal

Size:8-9 meters in length and 5 to 6 tonnes

Stegosaurus is one of the most iconic dinosaurs of all time. In Europe it was found in the lourinha formation.

The specimen is assigned to the species stegosaurus ungulatus,the largest species. This was reaffirmed in a 2022 paper. The size of the Portuguese specimen was 5-7 m in length according to a renowned Portuguese paleontologist. However the specimen showed signs of adolescence and so likely was bigger when fully grown.

Stegosaurus ungulatus was at least 8 m in length and new material like isolated leg bones and apex likely mean it grew as big as 9 m in length. Interestingly it coexisted with dacentrurus in portugal.

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“Fradesian giant”
Time: late jurassic

Distribution in europe:portugal

Size: 6-9m long,2-3 m tall, 1-3 tonnes

The fradesian giant isnt a formally named dinosaur,it's only a nickname of my own creation. Its an igaunodontian ornithopod dinosaur,an early relative of the duckbilled dinosaurs and iguanodon. It would have looked similar to a camptosaurus and had thumb spikes.

Its known from isolated bones and a giant print. The disparity in size between the remains is stark. The bones,such as a shoulder blade indicate a 6 m long animal. But the footprint is colossal,its 70 cm long and wide. Its the largest ornithopod remains known from the jurassic and is indicative of an animal as big as 8-9 m long and almost 3m tall. 

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Machimosaurus hugii

Time: late jurassic
Size: at least 7 m in length,possibly greater
Distribution in europe:spain,portugal,france,germany

Machimosaurus is a giant crocodyliform, a relative of modern crocodiles but being very distant to their family. It was a large animal,at least 7m in length but it may have been greater in length. Isolated remains and a trackway in Spain might indicate a larger size.

It had a 1.5 m long skull and it lived primarily along the coast. However it was known to move into freshwater and it has evidence as having eaten dinosaurs.

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Plesiosuchus 

Time: late jurassic

Distribution in europe:england,spain,france

Size: 6 to 7 m in length

Plesiosuchus was a giant metriorhychid. This family was related to modern crocs but only distantly. These animals lived entirely within the ocean,having flippers and a fish like tail.

Plesiosuchus was the largest of its kind,having a body 7 m in length and with a skull 1.3 m in length.

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Pliosaurus (multiple species)

Time:late jurassic

Distribution: england,norway,russia

Pliosaurus is a giant marine reptile found across europe in the late jurassic. Numerous specimens of it grew to massive sizes. Pliosaurus funkei,kevani and rossicus all were at least 10 meters in length. An as of yet unnamed pliosaurus species from england is estimated at 12 m in length.

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Leedsicthys 

Age: middle jurassic

Distribution in europe: france,england

Size: 16.5 m and 45 tonnes

Leedsichtys is a giant filter feeding fish. Its been estimated at over 16 m in length.

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Temnodontosaurus

Distribution in europe:germany,england,france

Size: 10 m long

Temnodontosaurus is a giant ichthyosaur, a marine reptile. It was up to 10 m in length and it had massive serrated knife-like teeth.

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Art by randomdinos and deform on deviant art

Over the years,there has been hype of 12 meter long megalosaurs. “The trex before t rex!” “the king of kings of the Jurassic.’’ I've heard these thrown around for years now. Like most spectacular claims,these need to be analyzed with some scrutiny. I decided to apply that scrutiny and well I'm now skeptical of the claims of such giants.

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THE GIANT MEGALOSAUR OF SPAIN

In 2018 oliver rauhut and colleagues described some sparse material from the jurassic coast of spain and assigned them to indeterminate megalosaurs.  There were giant footprints that were found but the specimen that gained the most attention was MUJA 1913, a large anterior caudal vertebrae(will refer to this body part as ACV from now on). It was big and it was hyped out as much bigger than the ACV fragment from torvosaurus gurneyi,which was previously hyped out as europes biggest theropod. According to the designers, muja 1913 had a centrum width 15% larger than gurneyi. Since gurneyi was 10 m long, this naturally led to length estimates of 11.5 meters for muja.

This is pretty contentionable. Look at the text from the paper that I highlighted. It states that the centrum width of muja 1913 is reconstructed….The actual centrum width is not certain since the rim is eroded. As you can see from the picture the rim of the ACV of torvosaurus gurneyi is also incomplete and broken in several places. So therefore the size difference might not be the case at all, since the size difference is based on centrum width and neither vertebrae has a complete rim leaving the true centrum width uncertain and less reliable.

But the bottom and top parts of the centrums are much better preserved and so the heights could be ascertained better. As you can see the  centrum heights aren't all that different. ML1100  specimen of t gurneyi has a maximum centrum height of 14.5 cm while muja 1913 is 15 cm. This is only a small size difference. This is supported by the fact the giant theropod footprint from the same rocks as muja 1913 is 82 cm in length,while a footprint from the lourinha formation where t gurneyi comes from is 79 cm and was referred to torvosaurus. This suggests that the spanish megalosaur and torvosaurus were around the same size,if not maybe the spanish megalosaur was slightly larger. 

On the subject of torvosaurus,the ‘’edmarka specimens” i have heard are similar in size to the correspondent elements in the complete elvis specimen of torvosaurus. Edmarka had long been purported as 12 meters in length but elvis from what ive heard is only 10 m in length,if not slightly larger. This would collapse the notion of a 12 m american torvosaurus. But elvis isnt published fully yet so this remains to be seen.

In any aspects, the maximum reliable size of the spanish giant and both torvosaurus species is 10 meters in length.

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TENDAGURU GIANT

The tendaguru giant is referring to various megalosaur specimens from the tanzanian tendaguru formation. Teeth and legbone fragments appear to be the predominant specimens available. Ive seen some skeletals and reconstructions put this thing at 12 meters in length.

Really this is probably overestimating. In the 2011 paper by rauhut it stated the provided tibia measurement was “only somewhat larger than that of torvosaurus tanneri”. This implies its only slightly larger than the byu torvosaurus instead of greatly bigger. The byu torvosaurus collection comes mostly from 8-9 meter long animals so it does not appear to reflect a 12 meter estimate for the tendaguru giant.

The tooth of ‘’megalosaurus ingens” is 12 cm in crown height and again this was suggested to belong to a truly gigantic animal. However the largest teeth of the Portuguese torvosaurus ( again a 10 meter animal) are up to 15 cm in crown height. Not that teeth reliably scale but it just demonstrates the overestimations.

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In conclusion the largest megalosaurs from the Jurassic are still big animals. But based off the available evidence,the 12 meter estimates are probably over estimates. Granted im having to work off such scant and incomplete material,its frustrating.

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Art by randomdinos and deform on deviant art

Over the years,there has been hype of 12 meter long megalosaurs. “The trex before t rex!” “the king of kings of the Jurassic.’’ I've heard these thrown around for years now. Like most spectacular claims,these need to be analyzed with some scrutiny. I decided to apply that scrutiny and well I'm now skeptical of the claims of such giants.

________________

THE GIANT MEGALOSAUR OF SPAIN

In 2018 oliver rauhut and colleagues described some sparse material from the jurassic coast of spain and assigned them to indeterminate megalosaurs.  There were giant footprints that were found but the specimen that gained the most attention was MUJA 1913, a large anterior caudal vertebrae(will refer to this body part as ACV from now on). It was big and it was hyped out as much bigger than the ACV fragment from torvosaurus gurneyi,which was previously hyped out as europes biggest theropod. According to the designers, muja 1913 had a centrum width 15% larger than gurneyi. Since gurneyi was 10 m long, this naturally led to length estimates of 11.5 meters for muja.

This is pretty contentionable. Look at the text from the paper that I highlighted. It states that the centrum width of muja 1913 is reconstructed….The actual centrum width is not certain since the rim is eroded. As you can see from the picture the rim of the ACV of torvosaurus gurneyi is also incomplete and broken in several places. So therefore the size difference might not be the case at all, since the size difference is based on centrum width and neither vertebrae has a complete rim leaving the true centrum width uncertain and less reliable.

But the bottom and top parts of the centrums are much better preserved and so the heights could be ascertained better. As you can see the  centrum heights aren't all that different. ML1100  specimen of t gurneyi has a maximum centrum height of 14.5 cm while muja 1913 is 15 cm. This is only a small size difference. This is supported by the fact the giant theropod footprint from the same rocks as muja 1913 is 82 cm in length,while a footprint from the lourinha formation where t gurneyi comes from is 79 cm and was referred to torvosaurus. This suggests that the spanish megalosaur and torvosaurus were around the same size,if not maybe the spanish megalosaur was slightly larger. 

On the subject of torvosaurus,the ‘’edmarka specimens” i have heard are similar in size to the correspondent elements in the complete elvis specimen of torvosaurus. Edmarka had long been purported as 12 meters in length but elvis from what ive heard is only 10 m in length,if not slightly larger. This would collapse the notion of a 12 m american torvosaurus. But elvis isnt published fully yet so this remains to be seen.

In any aspects, the maximum reliable size of the spanish giant and both torvosaurus species is 10 meters in length.

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TENDAGURU GIANT

The tendaguru giant is referring to various megalosaur specimens from the tanzanian tendaguru formation. Teeth and legbone fragments appear to be the predominant specimens available. Ive seen some skeletals and reconstructions put this thing at 12 meters in length.

Really this is probably overestimating. In the 2011 paper by rauhut it stated the provided tibia measurement was “only somewhat larger than that of torvosaurus tanneri”. This implies its only slightly larger than the byu torvosaurus instead of greatly bigger. The byu torvosaurus collection comes mostly from 8-9 meter long animals so it does not appear to reflect a 12 meter estimate for the tendaguru giant.

The tooth of ‘’megalosaurus ingens” is 12 cm in crown height and again this was suggested to belong to a truly gigantic animal. However the largest teeth of the Portuguese torvosaurus ( again a 10 meter animal) are up to 15 cm in crown height. Not that teeth reliably scale but it just demonstrates the overestimations.

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In conclusion the largest megalosaurs from the Jurassic are still big animals. But based off the available evidence,the 12 meter estimates are probably over estimates. Granted im having to work off such scant and incomplete material,its frustrating.

https://xabierotxoaimaginethepast.wordpress.com/

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so the title of largest carch was originally giganotosaurus. However it was based off a single jawbone and 3 d scanning proved it wasnt much bigger than the holotype. The holotype itself is 12 m or so in length and so it brings down the rest of the animal to that length.

this creates a tie between it and mapusaurus and carcharodontosaurus. These 2 are both usually estimated between 12-12.5 m in length. the issue is these 2 are estimated based off fragmentary remains. so which one is truly bigger is uncertain.

giganotosaurus's size has the greatest confidence since the holotype is 70 percent complete. but the other 2 have fragmentary but giant remains that cant be ignored.

this is luciobarbus esocinus,also known as the pike barbel or mangar. it is found in the euphrates river and tigris river. its a giant freshwater fish,7.5 ft long and 300 lbs. its a giant carnivore and the apex predator of its ecosystem. its actually one of the largest freshwater fish in the world.

skeletal by randomdinos,dan folkes and alphasr38

Torvosaurus gurneyi from the late jurassic of Portugal is already estimated at being 10 meters long and 4 tonnes in weight. Yet I have a nagging suspicion that this giant's already large size has been underestimated. Let's get into it

Firstly, the skull length is possibly underestimated. The skull length of the holotype maxilla ML 1100 was estimated at being 115 cm in length. The method used to obtain this length is questionable because they used the maxilla to skull length ratios of scuriumimus and monolophosaurus. For one their relationship to megalosauroidea and by extension relations to torvosaurus are highly contentious. Not only that but the holotype of sciuriumimus was not even remotely fully grown and as other theropods have shown,the snout proportions of dinosaurs change drastically as they grow up. Monolophosaurus’s type specimen is considered to possibly be a subadult and even with how disarticulate torvosaurus is its always been recognized to have a proportionately large skull,certaintly more so than mono. So they are completely unreliable proxies. 

Additionally it's now likely the maxilla was bigger in real life. The maxilla as preserved is 63 cm in length and was originally thought to have been complete. In 2012 a quarry in Colorado preserved a complete and articulated specimen of torvosaurus,nicknamed elvis and critically that specimen had a complete maxilla. The specimen has not been described fully but enough information about the maxilla has. In a 2023 abstract they described key details about the maxilla anatomy, they stated that the maxilla had an elongated extension at the end,which increases the overall length of Torvo's snout. This aspect was confirmed by dr brian kurtice as well as the cincinnati mount of torvosaurus,which is based on elvis and shows the maxillary extension. This elongated extension is not preserved in ML 1100 and thus means the overall maxilla would have been longer and thus this automatically renders the skull size as an underestimate because it does not account for the extra length of the maxillary extension.

Based on the citations in the paper, mateus and colleagues use a 2007 paper to base their entire size estimation of 10 meters on the 115 cm skull. As I've stated previously the 115 cm skull estimation is unlikely. According to the 2006 paper by mateus,the maxilla of ML 1100 is 8 cm of the ventroposterial bit which is where the maxilla meets the jugal. Combine that missing 8 cm with the 63 preserved length of the maxilla,in addition to the maxillary extension that's unaccounted for,and the Length of the Maxilla of ML 1100 is easily 70 cm in length.

In the paper describing t gurneyi they talk about ML 632, a femur that is incomplete but would have been 1.1 m in length when complete. They claimed a length of 10 m for the specimen of ML 632 but in the brief section of the paper where they gave the estimate,they didn't justify how they got their estimate. They didn't provide regressions,they didn't extrapolate and the 2 citations they provided only talk about estimating skull length and mass from femurs, the citations say nothing about extrapolating body length from femurs. In fact using other relatively complete proxies indicates that the femur belongs to an even bigger animal. Using the 76 cm femur length of an 8m afrovenator and the 50 cm femur length of a 5 m eustreptospondylus gets a body length estimate of 11-11.5 m of the torvosaurus that contributed ML 632.

There is also fragmentary evidence of giant size specimens of t gurneyi. In 2010 mateus et al described a giant footprint of a theropod  lourinha from the lourinha formation that was 79 cm long by 60 cm wide, one of the biggest from the entire Jurassic and estimated the trackmaker as 3.5 m tall at the hips. Mateus referred the footprint to torvosaurus. There are also tooth crowns of torvosaurus from Portugal 15 cm in height,similar in size to t rex and the biggest of carcharodontosaurs,although teeth do not provide a good extrapolative material to estimate body size. Bear in mind these remains are highly fragmentary and while indicative of giant animals,how giant cannot possibly be ascertained for certain. 

So with all this in mind it leaves me thinking the 10 meter estimate might not be completely right. At the very least the methods used to obtain were shaky and advancements in science mean updated estimates are necessary.

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credit to bagel of nuts on reddit

what ecosystem do you think would actually be the most dangerous to humans? what ecosystems animals do you think pose the biggest threat to humanity.

art by danny cicchetti

Diplodocids are some of the most iconic sauropods of the Jurassic. Brontosaurus, diplodocus and apatosaurus all belong to this family of giants. Renowned for their long necks,graceful swan-like build and whiptails,they are icons of the Jurassic.

They are most famous from the morrison formation,but this post however is not about the morrison formation diplodocids. I will be going over the known diplodocids from the Lusitanian basin of Portugal.

Lets get into it.

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Dinheirosaurus (supersaurus) lourinhanensis

specimen(s): ML 414

Provenance: Porto Novo member of the Lourinhã formation

It was named in 1999. Its holotype specimen consists of dorsal vertebrae and cervical vertebrae. It is closely related to North America's supersaurus,to the point some consider it to be synonymous. It was of moderately large size for diplodocids,at 25 meters in length.

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Portuguese sister to Diplodocus 

Specimen(s):SHN(jjs)177,178

Provenance: Porto Novo Member of the lourinha formation,freixial formation

This is an unnamed taxon from several of the formations in the lusitanian basin. It's been recovered in preliminary analyses as being closely related to diplodocus proper. Its been mentioned in 2 abstracts and 1 peer reviewed paper.

It was of similar size to dinheirosaurus, the ischia of 177 and femur length of 178 were similar in size to corresponding elements from dippy the diplodocus,specimen CM84.

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Blue Beach Giant

Specimen(s): Unknown catalog number, In possession of the SHN of torres vedra

Provenance: Praia azul member of the Lourinha formation

The blue beach giant is yet another unnamed taxon. In this case the information comes from Personal communications with The SHN and news reports. Information from SHN was reproduced with their permission.

According to them the remains were unambiguously from a diplodocoid. It was a giant animal,30 meters long by their reckoning. The ribs were at least 2.2 meters in length. The name blue beach giant refers to the praia azul locality,which in portuguese translates to blue beach.

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Miscellaneous specimens

Specimen(s):ML 418,MG 4819, 4821, 4826, 25197.1-6,SHN 521,589,588,Quinta da aguiera femur,Porto dinheiro footprint not catalogued

Provenance: Porto novo member of the lourinha formation,bombarall formation

These are specimens that didnt appear to belong to any distinct taxon. ML 418 was declared as being distinct from dinheirosaurus but being a singular vertebrae it cant be excluded as having come from any of the other taxon. The quinta da aguiera femur is a large femur chunk, interpreted as having come from an animal bigger than dippy the diplodocus according to the post by paleontology student pedro andrade. The uncatalogued footprint from porto dinheiro is a huge 105 cm footprint of a sauropod. Only a brachiosaurid or diplodocid was big enough to leave it. Brachiosaurids on the other hand however have broad,circular and teardrop shaped footprints and the footprints morphology is inconsistent with that. Therefore it better fits the more elongated feet of diplodocids.

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Art by literally miguel,connor ashbridge,gabriel ugueto,dibgd and dinosaur a day

the vaca muerta is a formation in argentina dated to 150-140 million years ago and it is noted for a diverse marine fauna.

the largest predator is a pliosaur referred to as Liopleurodon sp. It was big, a 2026 paper estimated it as 11 m long with a 2.1 m skull.

pliosaurus lived here but the patagonian species was notably smaller.

dakosaurus was a 5m croc relative with steak knife like teeth and one of the top predators of the formation.

cricosaurus was a smaller croc relative at only 2m in length and likely a piscivore.

the giant filter feeding leedsicthys is reported from vaca muerta.

various icthyosaurs like caypullisaurus and catutosaurus have been reported from vaca muerta.

art by cesar diaz

ive seen estimates for them vary all over the place and i just wanted clarity? this picture alone had a previous version where its size was only 9m,now its been updated and its nearly 11 m,

Art by gabriel ugueto,pedro andrade,corallianasa,dan folkes

when it comes to giants of the late jurassic, the morrison formation is indisputedly the king. So many giant dinosaurs come from there. Often understimated in the capacity to provide giants is the lourinha formation of portugal.

this formation has many overlapping dinosaurs with morrison but their often not held in the same idea of size as those from the morrison.

although definitely more fragmentary,there is still evidence of giants from portugal.

torvosaurus from portugal is already estimated at 10 meters in length and 4 tonnes. The north american torvosaurus is 11m plus if the edmarka remains are included.

in 2010 octavio mateus described a footprint 80 cm long by 60 cm wide. He referred it to torvosaurus because its the only theropod large enough to have left it. a torvosaurus that left this track might have been around 11-12m in length.

from the same site that produced the cf.torvosaurus track, a giant sauropod foot print 105 cm long has been found. Only diplodocids and brachiosaurids were big enough to have left that print. Its morphology is more consistent with diplodocids because the track is longer than it is long. Brachiosaur pes were much more broad and circular as to support their greater weight. Dinheirosaurus was found at the same site and if this footprint belongs to it could indicate a size similar to its supersaurus relative back in the states. Other large diplodocid remains include a partial femur according to pedro andrade and according to the SHN of torres vedra (whove given me permission to share this info) A 30 m animal is known from the blue beach locality,with 2.2 m long ribs.

new remains from pombal are belived to come from lusotitan and indicate an animal of 25 meters in length. first described in a 2023 abstract and in another in 2025. The authors have stated in outside sources that the remains come from lusotitan.

A giant footprint 70cm in length belonged to a camptosaurus like animal,but huge. It was possibly 9m in length.

Dacentrurus is 9m long and is known from the lourinha formation.

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https://observador.pt/2014/05/20/sociedade-de-historia-natural-tenta-salvar-sauropode-ameacado-pelo-mar/

https://www.scup.com/doi/10.1111/j.1502-3931.2009.00190.x

https://doi.org/10.3390%2Fd17010029

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/373273025_The_giant_sauropod_dinosaurs_of_Pombal_new_discoveries

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6QNyQVKu7Y

https://vertpaleo.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/2025_SVP_Program_Final_Final.pdf