u/TheRoeth

From Static RGOs to Historic Progression
▲ 79 r/EU5

From Static RGOs to Historic Progression

Each region has their history.

Countries come and go, technology progresses, crafts develop. But we assume that, for the full stretch of 500 years, the main materials extracted and the overall economy in a location will stay the same.

This does not feel alive.

There are locations, where livestock grazes in 1337 and despite in reality this would become a place of mining and industry, we are going to see livestock being the RGO in 1837.

There are locations which are nothing but wilderness and would be suitable to nothing but fur trade - but because in 1750, gold will be discovered there, we'll start 1337 with a gold RGO.

This is an attempt to making things more dynamic.

I upgraded the [RGO Mod] to allow for progressive research unlocks, bound by the region and defined by history.

There are 72 Regions in the game, with topography, vegetation and climate (and people), and a lot happens within 500 years. Getting this structured was a headache.

Here is the approach, done for each region:

  1. Research the region's history across the 500 years (economics, trade, politics, ..)
  2. Cluster this history into the EU5 ages (Traditions, Renaissance, Discovery, ...)
  3. Derive what Goods where of greatest relevance in that Region, in the given EU5 age
  4. Map the EU5 goods to those real goods
  5. Determine reasonable boundary conditions where those goods could be RGO'd (e.g. only coastal zones in Anatolia for cotton in Agen of Reformation - yes, i also was very surprised) - so that we don't end up with spamming whatever RGOs just everywhere, and keep close to history
  6. Add a Region-specific research item to unlock this RGO in the (Topography x Vegetation x Climate)
  7. Test, Test, Test (and still not everything can be tested - I'm relying on the community here to get feedback and bug reports, pls feel encouraged to send a message :) )
  8. Release - Today. Yay!

================================================================

One Example: East Coast is one of 72 Regions in EU5

When unlocked, what unlocked, on which tiles, and how many tiles are eligible to be converted

East Coast

Region key: east_coast_region Land locations: 648

Age Research unlock RTV Tiles
Traditions Fur hills + forest + continental 75 / 648 (11.6%)
Renaissance Lumber flatland + forest + continental 96 / 648 (14.8%)
Discovery Tobacco flatland + forest + subtropical 157 / 648 (24.2%)
Reformation — — —
Absolutism Iron mountains + forest + continental 19 / 648 (2.9%)

Story

Age of Traditions. Eastern Woodlands peoples: maize-beans-squash agriculture, fishing, and deer hunting; wampum and fur internal trade. No wheat or iron industry.

Age of Renaissance. Atlantic coast increasingly visited by fishers; fur trade with external contacts. Indigenous agriculture stable in the interior. Lumber extracted from dense forests.

Age of Discovery. English and Dutch colonies (Virginia, New England): tobacco, cod, and fur; maize adopted by settlers. Timber (shift to renaissance) for ships and potash.

Age of Reformation. Tobacco and fur exports peak; grain production grows in middle colonies. Naval stores (pitch, tar) from pine forests.

Age of Absolutism. Diversified colonial exports: tobacco, rice (south), wheat and livestock (middle), fish and timber (north). Iron furnaces appear in northern colonies late.

================================================================

You can imagine that doing this for 72 regions is a massive effort, and there will be inaccuracies in this first release. Yet I hope this will open the door towards a more dynamic, and more strategic playstyle around what is the basis of the EU5 economy: RGOs.

u/TheRoeth — 11 days ago
▲ 24 r/EU5

Does 'Settle Tribesmen ' need a buff?

Playing as Maya, I have a metric ton of tribesmen. Having cabinet members work on settle tribesmen does not do a lot.

Is it actually worth it?

I rather Develop Provinces instead then...

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u/TheRoeth — 23 days ago
▲ 21 r/EU5

My Lord, the Spaniards explored new lands. Can we make them an offer?

Sire, I am annoyed!

Day in and day out are we sending our courtiers on long journeys to explore what lies beyond the horizon. Or sending out spies to steal such knowledge, but the repercussions have proven deadly.

Our friends, the Spaniards, hoard valuable maps and are short on cash.

Can we not make them an offer?

Also, our clueless brothers in Bohemia, as always, lack knowledge of anything. Overseas territories are one example. They might be interested in our assets...

We can buy and sell art, but not maps? These times are over...

Trade Map Knowledge with Gold

"Why steal maps when you can simply buy them?"

This mod adds two new diplomatic actions that allow countries to buy and sell area cartographic knowledge for gold through the Economy diplomacy category (the same category used for buying and selling art).

Instead of relying solely on espionage, wealthy nations can purchase valuable geographic knowledge, while explorers can profit from selling their discoveries.

Features

✓ Buy Map Knowledge
Purchase knowledge of an area another country has already discovered, provided you have not fully charted it yourself.

✓ Sell Map Knowledge
Earn gold by selling knowledge of areas you have discovered to countries that have not.

✓ Dynamic Pricing
Prices start at 750 gold per area and scale with diplomatic relations (375–7,500).
• Allies and subjects receive discounts.
• Rivals and hostile nations pay significantly more.
• Same rules for you: buying from friendly nations will be cheaper, while you pay extra to convince rivals and hostile nations to sell their valuable maps.

✓ Player Controlled
Only human players can initiate map trades. The AI will never send unsolicited map trade offers.

Compatibility

• Compatible with Europa Universalis V 1.3.*
• Vanilla Steal Maps and Share Maps remain unchanged.
• Simply enable or disable the mod in the launcher.
• No in-game rule or campaign setup required.

Notes

• You must have enough gold to purchase map knowledge.
• You can only sell map knowledge to countries with a positive opinion of you.
• Buyers must be able to afford the asking price.
• Purchasing map knowledge instantly reveals the selected area and safely clears any ongoing exploration there.

I'm now going to make friends in India to get my map collection of the West Indies completed... see you there

u/TheRoeth — 3 months ago
▲ 7 r/EU5

Stealing maps, no stealth?

My spies are well trained. They build spy networks like nobody else. Doing spy things, without the enemy noticing.

Except for when they steal maps. Somehow they can't steal without the target country noticing, and the accumulated antagonism(?!) is absolutely crazy.

Is the intention of doing spy-ey things not that these things happen without anybody noticing? Or do EU5 spies brag on Insta about their exploit.

Btw, when I fully Annex a country I should inherit their maps, just saying... Why do they disappear?

Hmmm

reddit.com
u/TheRoeth — 3 months ago
▲ 316 r/EU5

I allowed the AI to switch RGOs (within reason) and let it run for 200 years

I had time now to update the AI (goodbye, old lumber obsession) and let the game run for 200 years with the mod switched on (ref. original reddit post). Happy to see that the globe is not turned into one big forest anymore within 30 years, but does the current AI conversions make more sense now?

Recap, the rules:

  • Players and the AI can convert a location's vanilla RGO into another eligible RGO.
  • Available conversion options are based on vanilla RGO placement by region, topography, and vegetation. That keeps conversions (hopefully) grounded in the game's existing logic.
    • Example: If vanilla allows Wheat on a farmland hills location in southern Germany, you can also convert any other farmland hills location in that region to Wheat. The AI can do that as well.
  • Each location has up to 5 possible RGO options, most of them low-value staple goods at the start of the game.
  • The AI checks current market prices before deciding whether an RGO conversion is worthwhile, and what to convert to.
  • A conversion only happens if the target RGO is at least 50% more valuable than the current one.
  • The AI only evaluates a small number of locations each month and needs to pass control- and market-access-gates.
  • Let it run for 200 years and see what happens

A small example list, which RGOs are available:

Region Topography Vegetation Allowed convert-to targets
North Germany (north_german_region) flatland farmland clay, sand, legumes, millet
North Germany (north_german_region) flatland grasslands clay, sand, fruit, legumes
Japan (japan_region) flatland farmland rice, dyes, silk, sand
Japan (japan_region) mountains forest stone, sand, fruit, legumes, medicaments
Mesoamerica (mesoamerica_region) plateau grasslands legumes, maize, livestock, incense, cotton
Mesoamerica (mesoamerica_region) hills jungle sand, medicaments, lumber, cocoa, dyes

Results:

TL;DR: Regions specialize in goods for which they have the best natural conditions. If the AI can put horses on a larger variety of locations in one area compared to other areas, it will do so. Driving the price down, and export. Other areas might be better suited for lumber, fish, pepper, silk,... , in exchange. The AI reverts back, if prices get too low and other RGOs would pay better in the market.

Overview

The AI did decide to convert ~1.800 times within 200 years

Metric Value
Total picks 1,863
Unique locations 1,664
Locations with 2+ conversions 171 (max 4 per loc)

It seems to get going quickly. The early years are the most active ones, probably still a lot of demand/supply mismatch from the scripted start. Settling later when regions have already adapted, specialized and prices have settled. Later conversions seem to come from new tech and new demand (e.g. fiber crops become more relevant after paper demand is going up)

Phase Years Global Conversions Rate
Opening surge 1337–1356 469 ~23/year
Mid campaign 1357–1400 ~435 ~10/year
Long tail 1401–1537 ~959 ~6–8/year

What RGO is being converted into what?

Patterns emerge, differing by location and time. Europe quickly specializes in breeding horses for export (they can put them on many different tiles based on vanilla input). Starter picks, as can be seen in below table, are goods with high standard price. The price is pushed down by increase in supply.

Continent Dominant pattern
Europe wheat/legumes/millet/livestock → horses (early), then wool
Asia lumber/livestock/wheat/rice → silk; fish/lumber → pepper
Africa legumes/fruit → fruit/ivory; sand → livestock
Americas maize/wild_game → dyes

Here one weird thing I observed:

the base output of each RGO seems to be roughly the same in terms of quantity. so a good that has a standard price of 0.5 ducats will have the same volume output like a good with a standard price of 4.0 ducats.

In terms of revenue, at the start of the campaign it will always be the best way for the AI to switch to those high standard-price goods, until the oversupply pushes their value down (i have seen horses, silk and pepper under 1 ducat), and then switch back to balance the economy out)

While other regions can't overproduce high value goods, the good's value there remains high, opening up opportunity for trade and specialization.

Ref. Economic Theory: Ricardo's "comparative advantage of nations".

Why would I as Europe not produce more Horses if there is demand in other markets, and i have plenty of grassland to my name? There is absolutely no merit in producing 1.31 Wheat over 1.31 horses, until prices match.

Europe’s horses rush (28% of all global targets in 1337–49) is the clearest “AI reads prices” signal: cheap grain inputs → horses at ~1.9–2.1 market price with 2×+ uplift.

Do i misread EU5's economy here?

On Geography:

First action happens in Europe, and Asia catching up later.

Continent Share Notes
Asia 43% Rises from 24% (opening) → 55% (1500+)
Europe 36% Falls from 58% → 23% — pool exhausts faster
Africa 9% Stable ~10–14% in mid/late game
Americas 9% Mesoamerica alone = 5% of all picks

Regional specialization (examples):

  • North Germany: horses 64/140 picks
  • Japan: silk 61/79
  • Indonesia: pepper 52/82
  • Arabia: wool 29 + incense 26
  • Mesoamerica: dyes 26/98

Over Time:

As arbitrage opportunities disappear, and technology changes demand, so does the AI change their tactics in terms of RGO conversion.

Europe (675 picks, 36%)

Era Top targets
1337–1361 Horses (125), fruit (66), millet (17)
1362–1386 Horses (36), fruit (22), millet (10)
1387–1411 Horses (11), fruit (8), millet (7)
1412–1436 Fruit (10), legumes (7), horses (5)
1437–1461 Legumes (7), wool (6), horses (5)
1462–1486 Wool (11), millet (5), salt (5)
1487–1511 Wool (7), livestock (5), lumber (4)
1512–1536 Wool (7), fruit (4), lumber (2)

Africa (174 picks, 9%)

Era Top targets
1337–1361 Fruit (8), legumes (5), cotton (3)
1362–1386 Ivory (12), lumber (3), fruit (2)
1387–1411 Cotton (3), millet (3), legumes (3)
1412–1436 Livestock (4), legumes (4), fruit (3)
1437–1461 Copper (6), livestock (3), ivory (3)
1462–1486 Ivory (4), iron (3), legumes (3)
1487–1511 Iron (7), copper (5), fruit (3)
1512–1536 Copper (6), stone (3), fruit (3)

On the impact of Research (higher-value goods):

higher-value goods, which are unlocked in each age through research, are clearly OP. about 50% of all conversions are towards those RGOs, and they barely convert back since their price buffer is huge.

Source Picks Share
Matrix / starter staples 921 49.4%
Research-gated targets 942 50.6%

That also means that starter staples (like livestock, wheat, beeswax, clay, fish, stone, ...) are very relevant, nevertheless.

Matrix/starter breakdown (921 picks)

Everyone loves fruit and sheep! some food staples here and there, with the odd beeswax, lumber and stone where markets are out of supply.

Target Picks
fruit 191
wool 114
millet 91
legumes 72
livestock 67
beeswax 62
cotton, stone, lumber, wheat 40–44 each

Research-target breakdown (942 picks)

Below are only the higher-value goods which are unlocked by research throughout the ages.

Silk in Japan & China, Horses in Europe, and Pepper in South-East-Asia / India are the clear go-to goods and might need a nerve. on the other hand, why should it be forbidden to the player and AI to put horses on grassland where currently legumes are cultivated?

Target Picks Typical advance (design)
silk 319 Sericulture (Asia, Traditions)
horses 190 Stud Farms / Steppe Studs / etc.
pepper 159 Pepper Gardens (Asia, Renaissance)
incense 50 Frankincense / Sandalwood
iron 49 Blast Furnaces / Pick and Pit / …
tin 42 Frankincense & Alluvia (Asia hills/woodland) / Ají & Soft Ores (America hills)
dyes 41 Copper & Cochineal (America)
copper 39 Bloomery / Reef and Range / …
ivory 27 Ivory Trade (Africa)
coal 14 Pit Coal / Coal Measures / …
salt 12 Saltworks / Salt Caravans / …

On The specialization of markets

How do the markets look like in 1537? Here are a few examples.

Paris: We specialize in french horses for export, cheaper than livestock and wine. Overall market size is about the same compared to vanilla.

https://preview.redd.it/sjmg4jvhyrdh1.jpg?width=763&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cd3d4dd509e36ccce911e2e1d55057c9ab0f4d4b

The Maya Market: Cocoa, Cotton and Dyes ready for export. Market Value is ca. 25% higher compared to a vanilla run (~500 vs ~400)

https://preview.redd.it/of62erewyrdh1.jpg?width=756&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7a5f3d4c16c44814fa5dc5ae16e41ca1c3a6434b

Kyoto: Silk and Fish. about 30% less market value compared with vanilla

https://preview.redd.it/614694m8zrdh1.jpg?width=760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8f569e98cdba0f574b06462b133aab30a3ae3696

Kyiv: An example of a non-specialized market. Or do they specialize in food? Similar Market size compared to vanilla.

https://preview.redd.it/h9dkmrgfzrdh1.jpg?width=787&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e33b77253191ada33b3bb889382d91ccd0101156

HangZhou (China): The origin of the silk road. in vanilla? silk not a main good. The AI kept the Clay though, and i dont know why. Market value x4 compared to ~800 in vanilla.

https://preview.redd.it/y1v11ftnzrdh1.jpg?width=754&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=08d332cdbbef644874e67caabc8adabb26eb92c3

Now the little market experiment has ended, there is not much more to share for the time being.

Thanks for taking the time reading through all those numbers above!

Any thoughts? Let me know!

reddit.com
u/TheRoeth — 3 months ago
▲ 175 r/EU5

Sire, for five centuries this entire realm shall grow nothing but legumes. Are we truly forbidden from letting a cow near these fields?"

My Lord, I bring troubling news from the realm.

The kingdoms may rise and fall. Borders may change. Technologies may advance. Populations may move.

Yet this humble province shall forever proclaim:

"Legumes."

A fertile valley in 1334? Legumes.
Five hundred years of history later? Legumes.
A wealthy empire with advanced agriculture? Still legumes.

Can I not grow grain upon this land, or let sheep graze upon it?

The peasants have asked. The stewards have begged. The cattle have waited patiently.

But the map has spoken.

So I created:

"Sire, Who Bound This Manor to a Single Merchandise?!"

Link to Mod

A gameplay mod that allows locations to change their RGOs through actual labour, tools, and time. No magic button. Changing a region's production requires a proper 2-year conversion project with workers, resources, and consequences.

The land itself still matters. A forest remains a forest. A mountain remains a mountain. A desert remains a desert.

But within those natural limits, why should a location be condemned forever to the same RGO because someone wrote it on a map centuries ago?

A forest may provide lumber or beeswax.
A fertile plain may shift between different crops or livestock.
A mountain may support different resources over time.

The goal is simple:

Give rulers the power to shape the economic destiny of their lands.

A province should not only be a place where you build more buildings on top of a predetermined resource.

What kind of realm do you want to create?

A vast breadbasket feeding your neighbours?
A fur-trading powerhouse controlling the northern markets?
A lumber empire built around endless forests?
A mountain region specialising in the resources its harsh terrain allows?

Every location has its own opportunities and limitations. The question is not "Can I turn any land into anything?"

The question is:

"What can this land become, and what will I invest to make it happen?"

Through labour, tools, wealth, and decades of planning, your realm can gradually develop in the direction you choose, creating a deeper economic strategy beyond simply constructing buildings.

Edit:

Since a few people asked (which is fair!), I've added a detailed overview to the Steam Workshop page explaining which RGOs can be converted, where they're available, and how the terrain and regional restrictions work. You'll find it in the Discussions section of the workshop page: Link to Details

u/TheRoeth — 3 months ago