If you'll forgive some AI guided content here - I think it did a good job.

I asked Gemini to give me a list of the secondary defilements, literal translation, and synonyms. Since it has "background" knowledge of me it gave me examples from my life that are very real. I'll show the response down below.

My question is actually this though - has anybody been given a teaching for recognizing them? I am thinking perhaps I will focus on one a week. There are so many that it would be hard to try to be aware of them all the time. ("Self knowledge is seldom good news")

Where I feel called out (and my notes)

• Upanāha
  • Literal: To tie up, to bind together.
  • Translation: Enmity / Bearing a grudge.
  • Synonyms/Context: Simmering frustration, resentment, holding onto a slight. This is Kodha (anger) that hasn't been allowed to discharge. It binds to the body, often manifesting as chronic upper chest breathing or stomach knots during a stand-up meeting with a difficult colleague.

NOTES: I carry a lot of this around physically with work and when my wife is frustrated with me (I have ADHD, so that's...frequent)

Interestingly that lately, with lots of practice I'm able to feel the physical feeling but identify with it less. I'm actually "totally stressed out" at work right now, but mentally I'm sorta ok. Interesting how that works.

• Issā
  • Literal: To look at with an evil eye.
  • Translation: Envy / Jealousy.
  • Synonyms/Context: Resenting another's success, status anxiety. A painful sympathetic contraction when a peer gets a promotion or credit you wanted.

NOTES: I get just a tiny bit of this. I work in the sort of place where the people that do the work are usually not mentioned much in conversations compared to the people that do the selling. Functionally speaking I am used to this but it still creeps in now and again. I'm not super ambitious.

• Macchariya
  • Literal: The state of a stingy person.
  • Translation: Avarice / Stinginess.
  • Synonyms/Context: Scarcity mindset, hoarding. In a corporate environment, this often manifests as knowledge-hoarding or gatekeeping to protect one's indispensability.

NOTE: I actually don't indulge in this behavior at work, though I've seen others do it. However I do have a scarcity mindset sometimes when it comes to money. I make good money now, but have debt, and am used to being broke for most of my life. When my wife says "Christmas is coming" I feel a chill!

• Māna
  • Literal: Measuring.
  • Translation: Conceit / Pride.
  • Synonyms/Context: The constant background comparator: "Am I better than, worse than, or equal to them?" It is a highly exhausting, constant calculation running in the background.

NOTE: If this had just stoped at conceit/pride I'd say I have very little of this, but the context version hits hard for me. I work with a lot of insanely smart and education people (lie 60% of the people I work with have PhDs or master's degrees). I'd say "imposter syndrome" fits here.

• Mada
  • Literal: Intoxication.
  • Translation: Vanity / Intoxication (with youth, health, or life).
  • Synonyms/Context: Complacency born of current success or physical capability. Forgetting the fragility of the body or the impermanence of your current standing.

NOTE: Funny thing about defilements is that contradictory ones can co-exist. I get "stingy" because I feel like I'm behind financially with debt, but at the same time I also get very complacent with my current job situation (good pay, work from home) and sometimes with my family.

Anyway, here's the full list:

Note also that my AI likes to talk to me in terms of neurobiology and software engineering.

The Aversion / Friction Family (Rooted in Dosa)

These are variations of sympathetic nervous system arousal—the body interpreting the environment or other people as threats, leading to tension, rigidity, and the need to defend or attack.

• Vyāpāda
  • Literal: To go bad, to spoil.
  • Translation: Ill will / Malevolence.
  • Synonyms/Context: Generalized hostility, wishing someone would fail, a baseline state of aggressive reactivity.
• Kodha
  • Literal: Boiling over.
  • Translation: Anger.
  • Synonyms/Context: Acute rage, the sudden spike of adrenaline when a server crashes or a driver cuts you off. Short-lived but highly disruptive to vagal tone.
• Upanāha (The one you noticed)
  • Literal: To tie up, to bind together.
  • Translation: Enmity / Bearing a grudge.
  • Synonyms/Context: Simmering frustration, resentment, holding onto a slight. This is Kodha (anger) that hasn't been allowed to discharge. It binds to the body, often manifesting as chronic upper chest breathing or stomach knots during a stand-up meeting with a difficult colleague.
• Makkha
  • Literal: Smearing over, concealing.
  • Translation: Contempt / Detraction / Denigration.
  • Synonyms/Context: Dismissiveness, rolling your eyes, actively minimizing someone else's contribution or worth to protect your own ego.
• Paḷāsa
  • Literal: To strike against, to clash.
  • Translation: Domineering / Presumption / Insolence.
  • Synonyms/Context: Asserting dominance, talking over people, refusing to yield in an argument purely out of pride, pulling rank.

The Greed / Clinging Family (Rooted in Lobha)

These involve dopaminergic fixation—the organism perceiving a scarcity of resources, status, or comfort, and tightening its grip to secure them.

• Abhijjhā-visamalobha
  • Literal: Directing the gaze toward (Abhijjhā) + Uneven/unjust desire (Visamalobha).
  • Translation: Covetousness / Unrighteous Greed.
  • Synonyms/Context: Fixation on acquiring what isn't yours or what you don't need; hyper-focusing on an outcome at the expense of ethics or baseline calm.
• Issā
  • Literal: To look at with an evil eye.
  • Translation: Envy / Jealousy.
  • Synonyms/Context: Resenting another's success, status anxiety. A painful sympathetic contraction when a peer gets a promotion or credit you wanted.
• Macchariya
  • Literal: The state of a stingy person.
  • Translation: Avarice / Stinginess.
  • Synonyms/Context: Scarcity mindset, hoarding. In a corporate environment, this often manifests as knowledge-hoarding or gatekeeping to protect one's indispensability.

The Delusion / Ego-Preservation Family (Rooted in Moha)

These represent cognitive distortion and rigidity. They are failures of objective self-monitoring, where the brain prioritizes protecting a fabricated self-image over seeing reality accurately.

• Māyā
  • Literal: Magic, illusion.
  • Translation: Deceit / Hypocrisy.
  • Synonyms/Context: Masking, presenting a false front, faking competence or alignment to avoid vulnerability.
• Sāṭheyya
  • Literal: Craftiness, trickery.
  • Translation: Fraud.
  • Synonyms/Context: Active manipulation, office politics, framing data to look better than it is rather than admitting a fault.
• Thambha
  • Literal: A pillar, a post.
  • Translation: Obstinacy / Stubbornness.
  • Synonyms/Context: Cognitive rigidity. The refusal to down-regulate or change course when presented with new data. The absolute physical inability to say "I was wrong."
• Sārambha
  • Literal: Accompanying noise, rush, or impetuosity.
  • Translation: Rivalry / Contention / Competitiveness.
  • Synonyms/Context: Turning collaborative environments into zero-sum games. The need to "win" the conversation rather than solve the problem.
• Māna
  • Literal: Measuring.
  • Translation: Conceit / Pride.
  • Synonyms/Context: The constant background comparator: "Am I better than, worse than, or equal to them?" It is a highly exhausting, constant calculation running in the background.
• Atimāna
  • Literal: Beyond measuring (Excessive Māna).
  • Translation: Arrogance.
  • Synonyms/Context: Extreme superiority complex, complete blindness to one's own limitations, leading to inevitable structural failure (both in software and in life).
• Mada
  • Literal: Intoxication.
  • Translation: Vanity / Intoxication (with youth, health, or life).
  • Synonyms/Context: Complacency born of current success or physical capability. Forgetting the fragility of the body or the impermanence of your current standing.
• Pamāda
  • Literal: Without gladness/care (from letting go of attention).
  • Translation: Heedlessness / Negligence.
  • Synonyms/Context: Operating entirely on autopilot. The complete absence of sati (mindfulness). Letting the mind drift into the default mode network without any anchor.

I haven't had time to really listen to any of my recently generated audios. But previewing one briefly I thought it sounded more natural again. If anything maybe someday a hybrid of the old and new, but acceptable as far as I could tell.

I don't know if either the NotebookLM(Gemini notebook) or ExtendLM creators read this forum, so please direct me to the correct place if necessary.

If the ExtendLM creator(s) is/are here, thank you for all the annoyances you have fixed or worked around so far.

There is a minor annoyance that I wish we could resolve. The chat interface happily makes any audio deep dive I want with the given prompts and resources, along with the agreed upon title.

That title is of course completely ignored when it actually creates the episode.

This is particularly annoying as I like to do multi part series (I have one right now that's going to have like 48 episodes). and I'm trying to keep track of 1, 2, 3, 4.

Any work arounds for this? Does notebookLM plan on fixing, or do the good people working on extend LM think they have anything that could help?

Continuing from Part 4

All posts indexed in Part 1

Just to review, we are covering the Sigolovada Sutta, in which The Buddha advises Sigala how to "worship the six directions," the Buddha's "upgrade" to an old Vedic practice.

Once again I like Narada Thera's translation mostly because of the breakdown/organization though I feel some of the english terminology dated so I'll give alternate translations from the John Kelly, Sue Sawyer, and Victoria Yareham translation.

But we are not yet at the 6 directions. The Buddha first gave what is sometimes regarded as the householder vinaya - a code of conduct.

We covered vices in conduct, ways of dissipating wealth, violation of precepts, intoxication, gambling, and generally being a bad friend, a fake friend, a drinking buddy etc. Now we go to on how to be a "Good Hearted" or "Warm Hearted" friend.

>

"These four, young householder, should be understood as warm-hearted friends:

>

(1) he who is a helpmate,
(2) he who is the same in happiness and sorrow,
(3) he who gives good counsel,
(4) he who sympathises.

In the KSW translation:

>"Young man, be aware of these four good-hearted friends: the helper, the friend who endures in good times and bad, the mentor, and the compassionate friend.

I didn't think to use this phrase last time but in English we have the term "fair weather friend" to refer to somebody who is a good friend only when things are going well. I bet every language has a term for that.

>(1) "In four ways, young householder, should a helpmate be understood as a warm-hearted friend:

>

(i) he guards the heedless,
(ii) he protects the wealth of the heedless,
(iii) he becomes a refuge when you are in danger,
(iv) when there are commitments he provides you with double the
supply needed.

>(2) "In four ways, young householder, should one who is the same in happiness and sorrow be understood as a warm-hearted friend:

>

(i) he reveals his secrets,
(ii) he conceals one's own secrets,
(iii) in misfortune he does not forsake one,
(iv) his life even he sacrifices for one's sake.

I wanted to look at the KSW translation to see if anything different was meant by "secrets" but their translation is basically the same:

>

The enduring friend can be identified by four things: by telling you secrets, guarding your own secrets closely, not abandoning you in misfortune, and even dying for you.

I find the word "secrets" a little strong here personally, but I guess it is more to be thought of as one's own private business.

>(3) "In four ways, young householder, should one who gives good counsel be understood as a warm-hearted friend:

>

(i) he restrains one from doing evil,
(ii) he encourages one to do good,
(iii) he informs one of what is unknown to oneself,
(iv) he points out the path to heaven.

Both translations say "heaven" so we're talking about householders here who are aiming for a better rebirth rather than awakening. That of course doesn't preclude one from sharing the dhamma as a path to awakening.

Obviously in a modern context this is something we have to be careful with, as we generally do not go around preaching dhamma to our friends unless we know they need or want to hear it.

>(4) "In four ways, young householder, should one who sympathises be understood as a warm-hearted friend:

>

(i) he does not rejoice in one's misfortune,
(ii) he rejoices in one's prosperity,
(iii) he restrains others speaking ill of oneself,
(iv) he praises those who speak well of oneself."

The phrasing is a little awkward for the second two. KSW again but I'll add the numbers:

>

(i) by not rejoicing in your misfortune
(ii) delighting in your good fortune
(iii) preventing others from speaking ill of you
(iv) and encouraging others who praise your good qualities

A bit of the brahma viharas are in here I think.

"Rejoicing in misfortune" I would think would be the equivalent of ill-will, so we are talking about something with good will, metta which in literal pali I believe actually has "friendship" as one of it's synonyms.

"delighting in your good fortune" would be sympathetic joy or mudita which I feel like we don't talk about enough as householders. I actually want to do a whole thread on this. I have been learning about "active constructive responding." This is more the pro-social side (how you deal with others) than the internal (brahma vihara) side but it's so important. Turns out that how you respond to others achievements and successes might be just as important or even more important than the idea that you just need to listen to people when they are down.

(iii) and (iv) are really I think where you truly show what kind of friend you are. I think we are somewhat wired to be agreeable (some of us overly so) and so it's easy to take a passive response to person A complaining about person B whereas the Buddha is actively instructing us here to stand up for person B.

>Thus spoke the Exalted One. And when the Master had thus spoken, he spoke yet again:

>

The friend who is a helpmate,
the friend in happiness and woe,
the friend who gives good counsel,
the friend who sympathises too —
these four as friends the wise behold
and cherish them devotedly
as does a mother her own child.

The wise and virtuous shine like a blazing fire.
He who acquires his wealth in harmless ways
like to a bee that honey gathers,[6]
riches mount up for him
like ant hill's rapid growth.

With wealth acquired this way,
a layman fit for household life,
in portions four divides his wealth:
thus will he friendship win.

One portion for his wants he uses,[7]
two portions on his business spends,
the fourth for times of need he keeps.

Hi all, continuing from part 3.

Indexed in Part 1

Do let me know if you're finding this helpful. There hasn't been much discussion other than me.

I've been neglecting to post a link to the sutta. I've been using this one. Mostly because I like the format that is used, though I don't like all the terminology. "Bottle friend" was an interesting one. It was Narada Thera's translation for what we would call "drinking buddy."

This one will be short and I think self explanatory. Basically, don't be this person:

>

"One is a bottle friend; one says, 'friend, friend' only to one's face; one is a friend and an associate only when it is advantageous.

>"Sleeping till sunrise, adultery, irascibility, malevolence, evil companions, avarice — these six causes ruin a man.

>"The man who has evil comrades and friends is given to evil ways, to ruin does he fall in both worlds — here and the next.

>"Dice, women, liquor, dancing, singing, sleeping by day, sauntering at unseemly hours, evil companions, avarice — these nine[5] causes ruin a man.

>"Who plays with dice and drinks intoxicants, goes to women who are dear unto others as their own lives, associates with the mean and not with elders — he declines just as the moon during the waning half.

>"Who is drunk, poor, destitute, still thirsty whilst drinking, frequents the bars, sinks in debt as a stone in water, swiftly brings disrepute to his family.

>"Who by habit sleeps by day, and keeps late hours, is ever intoxicated, and is licentious, is not fit to lead a household life.

>"Who says it is too hot, too cold, too late, and leaves things undone, the opportunities for good go past such men.

>"But he who does not regard cold or heat any more than a blade of grass and who does his duties manfully, does not fall away from happiness."

>"These four, young householder, should be understood as foes in the guise of friends:

>

(1) he who appropriates a friend's possessions,
(2) he who renders lip-service,
(3) he who flatters,
(4) he who brings ruin.

>(1) "In four ways, young householder, should one who appropriates be understood as a foe in the guise of a friend:

>

(i) he appropriates his friend's wealth,
(ii) he gives little and asks much,
(iii) he does his duty out of fear,
(iv) he associates for his own advantage.

>(2) "In four ways, young householder, should one who renders lip-service be understood as a foe in the guise of a friend:

>

(i) he makes friendly profession as regards the past,
(ii) he makes friendly profession as regards the future,
(iii) he tries to gain one's favor by empty words,
(iv) when opportunity for service has arisen, he expresses his inability.

Alternate translation:

>"The talker can be identified by four things: by reminding of past generosity, promising future generosity, mouthing empty words of kindness, and protesting personal misfortune when called on to help.

It's actually almost comically Homer-simpsonesque.

>(3) "In four ways, young householder, should one who flatters be understood as a foe in the guise of a friend:

>

(i) he approves of his friend's evil deeds,
(ii) he disapproves his friend's good deeds,
(iii) he praises him in his presence,
(iv) he speaks ill of him in his absence.

>(4) "In four ways, young householder, should one who brings ruin be understood as a foe in the guise of a friend:

>

(i) he is a companion in indulging in intoxicants that cause
infatuation and heedlessness,
(ii) he is a companion in sauntering in streets at unseemly hours,
(iii) he is a companion in frequenting theatrical shows,
(iv) he is a companion in indulging in gambling which causes heedlessness."

>Thus spoke the Exalted One. And when the Master had thus spoken, he spoke yet again:

>

The friend who appropriates,
the friend who renders lip-service,
the friend that flatters,
the friend who brings ruin,
these four as enemies the wise behold,
avoid them from afar as paths of peril.

I don't have to go far to remember people like this in my life, and glad I do not have them now.

I think it's probably easier to avoid them as you get older. I think in your 20s and 30s it could be tough.

Continuing from Part 2 (where I spelled the Sutta wrong in the title, sorry)

I will continue to use Part 1 as an Index

Where we left off, was, in a sense, the Buddha giving is the first four of the 5 precepts we are already familiar with.

>Killing, stealing, lying and adultery,
These four evils the wise never praise.

This next part of the Sutta is where the 5 precepts are going to blow up in to a much more detailed code of discipline.

>(3) What are the six channels for dissipating wealth which he does not pursue?

>(a) indulgence in intoxicants which cause infatuation and heedlessness; (b) sauntering in streets at unseemly hours; (c) frequenting theatrical shows; (d) indulgence in gambling which causes heedlessness; (e) association with evil companions; (f) the habit of idleness.

So now we have the 5th precept against intoxicants here. But more detail as to the reasoning behind having this as part of our code.

>(a) There are, young householder, these six evil consequences in indulging in intoxicants which cause infatuation and heedlessness: i. loss of wealth, ii. increase of quarrels, iii. susceptibility to disease, iv. earning an evil reputation, v. shameless exposure of body, vi. weakening of intellect.

i. loss of wealth - the Buddha certainly didn't want you to give up all your money and be poor, but he definitely didn't want you spending on booze!

ii. increase of quarrels - clear I think

iii. susceptibility to disease - cirrhosis anyone?

iv. earning an evil reputation, - Is this how you want to be known?

v. shameless exposure of body - glad to report this never happened to me in my drinking days

vi. weakening of intellect - pretty obvious?

>(b) There are, young householder, these six evil consequences in sauntering in streets at unseemly hours:

I have this idea in my mind of your typical reddit poster on r/theravada and I just don't imagine we are big lite night saunterers. But I guess if I'm wrong this is for you:

>i. he himself is unprotected and unguarded, ii. his wife and children are unprotected and unguarded, iii. his property is unprotected and unguarded, iv. he is suspected of evil deeds,[3] v. he is subject to false rumours, vi. he meets with many troubles.

However this is where I might look at modern behaviors. What about late night doomscrolling? Reddit? Should you be in bed right now?

>(c) There are, young householder, these six evil consequences in frequenting theatrical shows:

>He is ever thinking:

>i. where is there dancing? ii. where is there singing? iii. where is there music? iv. where is there recitation? v. where is there playing with cymbals? vi. where is there pot-blowing?[4]

I would love for somebody to tell me what pot-blowing is one day. The comments say "a type of amusement" which isn't helpful.

My modern take on this: I think we have to reflect on some of the versions of this that exist today and maybe sort them into more useful categories. I am envisioning here, the streets of the nearest city to wherever the Buddha was, late at night when these things are happening, and though such cities and activities exist now they certainly don't appeal to me.

However I am going to probably enjoy a movie with my wife or with my kid, probably a matinee, and this does not generally impinge upon my mindfulness. I even promised her at some point I'd learn to dance but haven't gotten around to it.

I would however, imagine a 5 hour Netflix binge is something that we should probably consider adding to our modern version of this list.

(d) There are, young householder, these six evil consequences in indulging in gambling:

>i. the winner begets hate, ii. the loser grieves for lost wealth, iii. loss of wealth, iv. his word is not relied upon in a court of law, v. he is despised by his friends and associates, vi. he is not sought after for matrimony; for people would say he is a gambler and is not fit to look after a wife.

Looking with my divine eye (not really) of r/theravada redditors I don't see a lot of "Vegas baby!" types, but I could perhaps see that there are other ways we might find to gamble our money that exist today. r/wallstreetbets anyone? There are also online forms of gambling.

>(e) There are, young householder, these six evil consequences in associating with evil companions, namely: any gambler, any libertine, any drunkard, any swindler, any cheat, any rowdy is his friend and companion.

I thought I had a decent vocabulary, but I had to look up libertine. "person who rejects traditional morals, religious beliefs, and social rules to pursue physical and sensual pleasures."

>(f) There are, young householder, these six evil consequences in being addicted to idleness:

>He does no work, saying:

>i. that it is extremely cold, ii. that it is extremely hot, iii. that it is too late in the evening, iv. that it is too early in the morning, v. that he is extremely hungry, vi. that he is too full.

>Living in this way, he leaves many duties undone, new wealth he does not get, and wealth he has acquired dwindles away.”

I have to admit I feel a little called out here. I mean I work very hard, but when I don't, I usually sound exactly like that.

So I generally see the brahma viharas as being in one sense prescriptions for various unwholesome attitudes or defilements, i.e.

metta (good will) as an antidote to ill will

compassion antidote to cruelty or aversion (from other's suffering)

sympathetic joy as an antidote towards envy

equanimity - antidote to, clinging, indifference - ties together the other brahma viharas because your wishing for them to have all of the above will not make it so

However I don't tend to see equanimity (the brahma vihara version, not the mental factor that arises naturally in meditation, which is a little different) prescribed as a practice on it's own. I see metta practice, I see compassion as a practice (more in mahayana). Mudita and equanimity are listed but they are basically seen as part of the quartet. Has anybody seen or heard a good practice for equanimity on it's own?

Now I will relay my motivation for looking at this:

I have ADHD and the higher than average rejection sensitivity that comes along with it. I did not know this was a thing with a name until ADHD memes started going around the internet in the last 5 years or so.

The link explains it fairly well:

>Someone high in rejection sensitivity will often interpret benign or mildly negative social cues—such as a partner not answering a text message immediately—as signs of outright rejection. They may disregard other more logical explanations, as well as reassurances on the part of the supposed rejector. Paradoxically, such behavior may actually push others away, creating a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Also as a person with ADHD, I get myself into a lot of trouble forgetting this and that, missing details, and so there are very often people with a legitimate gripe against me (from their perspective at least) because of that. If you have ADHD you know what I mean.

(and yes, meditation helps a lot)

Ultimately though the "frustrated people" are the "heirs of their actions, owners of their actions", or at least I need to start seeing it that way. I still take a lot of undue responsibility for other people's feelings.

I also have a general high sensitivity towards other people's suffering, which is dual edged. It means I have a lot of empathy/compassion but it's not always the wise sort. I get uncomfortable around people who are unhappy.

While I'm on the subject, I've never actually seen the brahma viharas taught as a meditation practice, like all four of them. 15 minute each? Seems a bit rigid. I know metta is the baseline on which the others are built, and I've considered simply doing more of that.

Interestingly I don't experience a lot of anger these days. Combination of practice and age I think. Also skillful avoidance (I don't watch the news anymore, but if I do happen to catch a glimpse of the man, you know the one, it doesn't trigger me like it used to). I find the practices that hit hardest are the ones that target your biggest defilements, which is why I'm thinking of this.

I have also thought perhaps using the worldly winds as an object of meditation or maybe a recollection throughout the day. That is basically an exercise of equanimity.

Interested in hearing people's thoughts and experiences.

Oh and just a background on my meditation practice for those who haven't been reading my nearly obsessive posting lately. (It's an ADHD hyperfocus by the way, which is ironic given the subject matter) - I do anapanasati generally following Thanissaro Bhikkhu's teachings very closely, as well as adopting the strategies brought by his teachers and grand teachers. I do not do a separate "vipassana" practice as it's a) not really in the canon and b) has always left me more scattered than concentrated so it's not the right remedy for me.

Continuing our discussion from the intro and part 1.

>
And the Exalted One spoke as follows:

>“Inasmuch, young householder, as the noble disciple (1) has eradicated the four vices in conduct,[1] (2) inasmuch as he commits no evil action in four ways, (3) inasmuch as he pursues not the six channels for dissipating wealth, he thus, avoiding these fourteen evil things, covers the six quarters, and enters the path leading to victory in both worlds: he is favoured in this world and in the world beyond. Upon the dissolution of the body, after death, he is born in a happy heavenly realm.

>(1) What are the four vices in conduct that he has eradicated? The destruction of life, householder, is a vice and so are stealing, sexual misconduct, and lying. These are the four vices that he has eradicated.”

>Thus spoke the Exalted One. And when the Master had thus spoken, he spoke yet again:

>“Killing, stealing, lying and adultery, These four evils the wise never praise.

>(2) In which four ways does one commit no evil action? Led by desire does one commit evil. Led by anger does one commit evil. Led by ignorance does one commit evil. Led by fear does one commit evil.[2]

>But inasmuch as the noble disciple is not led by desire, anger, ignorance, and fear, he commits no evil.”

>Thus spoke the Exalted One. And when the Master had thus spoken, he spoke yet again:

>“Whoever through desire, hate or fear, Or ignorance should transgress the Dhamma, All his glory fades away Like the moon during the waning half. Whoever through desire, hate or fear, Or ignorance never transgresses the Dhamma, All his glory ever increases Like the moon during the waxing half.

I was curious about the "verse" translation so this is the John Kelly, Sue Sawyer, and Victoria Yareham translation

>"Desire, hatred, delusion, or fear:
Whoever transgresses the Dhamma by these,
Has a reputation that comes to ruin,
Like the moon in the waning fortnight.

Desire, hatred, delusion, or fear:
Whoever transgresses not the Dhamma by these,
Has a reputation that comes to fullness,
Like the moon in the waxing fortnight."

I found the word "glory" a little too..

Glorious Householder

But again I'm not a Pali Scholar. The word "reputation" resonates a little better for me.

This is actually less straightforward than I thought the more I looked at it:

>Inasmuch, young householder, as the noble disciple has eradicated the four vices in conduct,inasmuch as he commits no evil action in four ways, inasmuch as he pursues not the six channels for dissipating wealth, he thus, avoiding these fourteen evil things, covers the six quarters...

So he's given a list of four, then four, then 6. How does this cover the six quarters? Then I realized, it doesn't yet. He's giving a gradual training. These are all preliminaries. The six directions are going to be:

1. mother and father as the east
2. teachers as the south
3. spouse and family as the west
4. friends and colleagues as the north
5. workers and servants as the lower direction
6. ascetics and Brahmans as the upper direction

(This is what I love about breaking this Suttas apart. Our patience will pay off here.)

So the conduct part (the fourteen things) are just laying a foundation. It's a bit like our discussions about sila supporting samadhi (in my opinion).

Edit - Index:

Part 1	you are here
Part 2	Sutta Discussion: Sigolovada Sutta - Part 2

Per the this thread (The Meditating Householder, and A monk-skewed Canon) we are going to start pulling apart some Suttas specifically meant for householders. I'm going to make separate threads for each part ("parts" are arbitrary and at my discretion) because I would like people to comment on each, so we can look at these deeply.

Note: I am not a scholar or monk, but an old householder guy on Reddit. I do try to do my due diligence and look for resources where I can, so when you see my "commentary" keep that in mind. I'm just trying to get the thing started.

There's a lot of resources and some great commentary on this Sutta. If you read it quickly you miss the finer points. Put on our patience pants because we're gonna go slow.

Also, for these householder threads, I think we should be open to talking about resources that are available to us outside the canon that are still compatible with dhamma but might answer "how do we do this today?" For example the Buddha talks about finances, getting of debt, saving, etc. That's way more complicated now. So we might need some modern help there. Pretty sure he would hav recommended a budgeting app.

Let's get on with it

Sigolovada Sutta - a "Prequel" from the commentaries.

This "preface" based on the commentaries from Narada Thera is amazing. It adds a bit of meaning and drama to the Sutta I think that will make it relatable for all of us:

>

Sigala was the son of a Buddhist family residing at Rajagaha. His parents were devout followers of the Buddha, but the son was indifferent to religion. The pious father and mother could not by any means persuade their son to accompany them to visit the Buddha or his disciples and hear the noble Doctrine. The son thought it practically useless to pay visits to the Sangha, as such visits may entail material loss. He was only concerned with material prosperity; to him spiritual progress was to no avail. Constantly he would say to his father: "I will have nothing to do with monks. Paying homage to them would make my back ache, and my knees stiff. I should have to sit on the ground and soil and wear out my clothes. And when, at the conversations with them, after so sitting, one gets to know them, one has to invite them and give them offerings, and so one only loses by it."

>Finally as the father was about to die, he called his son to his deathbed, and enquired whether he would at least listen to his parting advice. "Most assuredly, dear father, I shall carry out any order you may be pleased to enjoin on me," he replied. "Well then, dear son, after your morning bath worship the six quarters." The father asked him to do so hoping that one day or other, while the son was so engaged, the Buddha or his disciples would see him, and make it an occasion to preach an appropriate discourse to him. And since deathbed wishes are to be remembered, Sigala carried out his father's wish, not, however, knowing its true significance.

>Now it was the custom of the Buddha to rise from his sleep at four o'clock and after experiencing Nibbanic Bliss for an hour to pervade the whole world with his boundless thoughts of loving-kindness. It is at this hour that he surveys the world with his great compassion to find out what fellow being he could be of service on that day. One morning Sigala was caught in the net of the Buddha's compassion; and with his vision the Buddha, seeing that Sigala could be shown a better channel for his acts of worship, decided: "This day will I discourse to Sigala on the layman's Vinaya (code of discipline). That discourse will be of benefit to many folk. There must I go." The Buddha thereon came up to him on his way for alms to Rajagaha; and seeing him engaged in his worship of the six quarters, delivered this great discourse which contains in brief, the whole domestic and social duty of the layman.

>Commenting on this Sutta, the Venerable Buddhaghosa says, "Nothing in the duties of a householder is left unmentioned. This Sutta is called the Vinaya of the householder. Hence in one who practices what he has been taught in it, growth is to be looked for, not decay." And Mrs. Rhys Davids adds: "The Buddha's doctrine of love and goodwill between man and man is here set forth in a domestic and social ethics with more comprehensive detail than elsewhere. And truly we may say even now of this Vinaya or code of discipline, so fundamental are the human interests involved, so sane and wide is the wisdom that envisages them, that the utterances are as fresh and practically as binding today and here as they were then at Rajagaha. 'Happy would have been the village or clan on the banks of the Ganges where the people were full of the kindly spirit of fellow-feeling, the noble spirit of justice which breathes through these naive and simple sayings.' Not less happy would be the village, or the family on the banks of the Thames today, of which this could be said."

Now the first part of the Sutta:

>

Thus have I heard:

>On one occasion the Exalted One was dwelling in the Bamboo Grove, the Squirrels' Sanctuary, near Rajagaha.

>Now at that time, young Sigala, a householder's son, rising early in the morning, departing from Rajagaha, with wet clothes and wet hair, worshipped with joined hands the various quarters — the East, the South, the West, the North, the Nadir, and the Zenith.

>Then the Exalted One, having robed himself in the forenoon took bowl and robe, and entered Rajagaha for alms. Now he saw young Sigala worshipping thus and spoke to him as follows:

>"Wherefore do you, young householder, rising early in the morning, departing from Rajagaha, with wet clothes and wet hair, worship, with joined hands these various quarters — the East, the South, the West, the North, the Nadir, and the Zenith?"

>"My father, Lord, while dying, said to me: The six quarters, dear son, you shall worship. And I, Lord, respecting, revering, reverencing and honoring my father's word, rise early in the morning, and leaving Rajagaha, with wet clothes and wet hair, worship with joined hands, these six quarters."

>"It is not thus, young householder, the six quarters should be worshipped in the discipline of the noble."

>"How then, Lord, should the six quarters be worshipped in the discipline of the noble? It is well, Lord, if the Exalted One would teach the doctrine to me showing how the six quarters should be worshipped in the discipline of the noble."

>"Well, young householder, listen and bear it well in mind; I shall speak." — "Very good, Lord," responded young Sigala.

My initial take to get things started (and why I'm stopping here already)

People refer to this as the householder's Vinaya, but before I even get to that I want to talk about the marvelous intelligence and compassion of the Buddha here and see what we can take from it.

Sigala had no interest in his parents religion. Does this not sound familiar? Yet his father, in a tremendous feat of death bed emotional manipulation, has him practicing this old Vedic ritual anyway. He's basically trapped.

But the Buddha with an emotional intelligence score of gazillion, is going to come along and tell him how he can carry out this practice anyway, but as a Dhamma practice.

Can we just take a minute to think about how amazing this is? Now Sigala can honor his father, free himself of guilt, but still have appropriate attention to the dhamma.

So I guess I am wondering what we can take from this given that a lot of us are probably doing something similar with our culturally expected holidays. Lately I have been enjoying speculating on how the Buddha would have spoken about some of the non-Buddhist holidays I celebrate. I'll spare you those speculations but would love to hear yours.

Something I have been thinking about for awhile.

I'm guessing that a lot of you are dhamma nerds like me (what's the Pali for that exactly?) and read a lot of Suttas and listen to talks by monks and what not.

• Householders that meditate and read Suttas are a somewhat modern thing, and mostly a "western" thing. (I hate that term but don't know what else to use)

• Depending on how you count, only about 5% of the discourses in the Pali Canon were written to householders.

• Ergo - modern "western" householders have somewhat of a skewed view of their place in Dhamma, and are shooting themselves with arrows in the abcense of an original arrow

I have seen people post in Buddhist forums over the many years I've been online. I surveyed a bit on Reddit actually:

Buddhist views on watching movies and the movie industry in general

Why is it wrong to eat for pleasure?

How does Buddhism relate to money? is asking for a raise when you dont really need it is bad?

Fortunately I did find this fantastic post by u/Astolon18: If you are a householder, practice and behave like one

Lots of good references in there.

I of course bring this up because I have been guilty of it myself. Those of us that listen to Thansisaro Bhikkhu know that he is unapologetically "orthodox" Theravadan, but again, most of the talks you will find of his online are either of the "academic" sort, or those he delivers to those at his Monastery. The first intended for a general audience, but typically about suttas where the audience was the Buddha's followers, the second are talks delivered straight from the heart by Thanissaro to a (I presume) mostly monk audience at his Monastery.

I bring this up of course because I feel that I myself have been subject to it. So I am spending a bit more time reading the householder Suttas to see what I can unpack.

Some questions I have:

Does anyone here relate to this and feel like they have gone through something similar?

Do we have any Buddhist "Natives" (Thai/Sri Lankan, etc) who have an opinion? I know the situation is very different in those places.

Does anyone feel like going through some Householder Suttas in detail in a discussion thread here?

Question I might regret asking:

Does anybody feel reddit needs a dedicated sub for this sort of topic? I've had the idea for awhile. Not sure I'm cut out to be a moderator though.

So in my sitting meditation I can sit on my cushion, and boom, breathing gets refined, body relaxes, some piti and sometimes sukkha if I'm able to sit long enough. After awhile verbal sankharas start to calm down. Things are generally going well.

I try to come out of it very slowly, very carefully, continue guarding the senses, and retain as much of those feelings for as long as possible as I go about my day.

I even try walking meditation, which I think I am not taking seriously, because it feels like day zero, like I have never meditated in my life (I've been at this about 30 years depending on how you count).

I also try to incorporate a meditative attitude into my runs (I am a distance runner) and this seems absolutely impossible. I mean it's for somewhat obvious reasons - you do have a lot more to pay attention to, but I'm astounded at how difficult it is to retain any sense of returning to the experience of being in the breath and body (which, granted, is going through some self inflicted suffering).

I'd like to hear some of your experiences of walking meditation and to what degree it corresponds to levels of stillness you get in sitting. Like I don't imagine you're going to get to the 4th jhana during walking meditation (where the breath seemingly stops). But I do get a little bit of piti arising (actually I get that on my runs and it makes me smile, and then I actually get self conscious about this like I'm running around grinning like an idiot. But that's a me problem.)

I really get 60 to 90 solid minutes of meditation in every day but adding more walking meditation feels like taking away from the sitting time I get and the benefits that I've reaped that do carry over into the day. I'm hoping eventually that my walking meditation will "Catch up" and allow even more stillness to come into my day. After all if I can't keep that going while walking, I can't expect it when doing anything else in my life, right?

Hey, my western religiously traumatized brethren out there. Who hears the word faith and runs for the hills? How does that word hit you? I think this topic is not only on brand for the forum but fits well with the actual idea of stream entry.

If you've read/listened to Theravada teachers, their take is typically to either avoid the subject, tread lightly around it or talk about it as a sort of confidence that one builds during the practice, or like "take it as a working hypothesis" kind of thing and "it's not the same as blind faith."

And this has generally been my take on it for many years and I've been ok with that.

But lately, I have been having some other feelings on this issue that I hope you will respond to with kindness because it's pretty raw for me and I think it's kind of important.

I am 100% a skeptical/materialist/empiricist type. Always have been, even back when my parents were trying to get me to believe in the floating sky dude and the rib woman and all that stuff.

For awhile, I stopped practicing Buddhism because I had some issues I could not seem to logically resolve on my own. I actually ended up getting back into it due to more of the empirical research that has happened regarding consciousness and neurobiology and all that sort of hoo-ha.

So again if it isn't clear I'm not entirely a faith based kind of person. And it's not the first time I've been through this cycle either. So why do I go away and come back?

Because every time I've practiced seriously it's basically "worked" as far as completely objectively observable mental and pro-social health benefits.

So the Buddha has not lead me wrong so far (except I still don't believe in rebirth, sorry, but I tried). But I realize the hindrance of doubt is still this block that's holding me back.

When I see some of these chants about refuge, and homage to the Buddha though, it still hits this little nerve in me like "that's a bit too religious for me, but I'll keep doing meditation and read the other suttas."

So I'm thinking to myself at this point "Have I not had enough evidence that this works to believe it can work all the way? How much more evidence do I need?"

So this is a very long way of saying I think I need to cultivate more faith. Like I seriously, really need to stop doubting. It's a literal requirement for stream entry. So what the heck man?

I think one thing that we westerners do actually get right in the practice - while we seem completely averse to the faith idea - is that we do have a sense of urgency, like "I'd really like to get enlightened right now please." I think this is healthy and it's the reason a lot of teachers have come from "Buddhist" countries to teach in this one.

But it's funny because I am beginning to suspect that faith might be one of the most expedient means we have available.

Again I know this is a touchy subject so I hope we can discuss this with kindness.

Something I've been thinking about for awhile, a question/discussion for those of us who might have a regular (or irregular) yoga practice in addition to meditation. From the anapanasati sutta:

>
[4] Passambhayaṃ kāyasaṅkhāraṃ assasissāmī"ti sikkhati He trains himself, "Calming the bodily fabrication, I will breathe in."

>Passambhayaṃ kāyasaṅkhāraṃ passasissāmī"ti sikkhati He trains himself, "Calming the bodily fabrication, I will breathe out."

>[8]

>Passambhayaṃ cittasaṅkhāraṃ assasissāmī"ti sikkhati He trains himself, "Calming the mental fabrication, I will breathe in."

>Passambhayaṃ cittasaṅkhāraṃ passasissāmī"ti sikkhati He trains himself, "Calming the mental fabrication, I will breathe out."

Most of what I know about how to practice anapanasati coes from Thanissaro Bhikkhu, so he tends to explain that when you are doing mindfulness of breathing, you note where various tensions arise and then direct the breath to those areas to calm them. Sometimes if you are sensitive enough, you will be able to sense the bodily fabrication (tension) that arises with a particular thought pattern, and calm it by reducing the bodily tension that the thought brings up.

So you're calming the sankharas by directing your breathing in certain ways.

Now I am looking for some of my yoga experts because I understand they have a concept of samskaras (the sanskrit version) that is somewhat similar. I don't know if "yogapedia" is a trusted source so forgive me, but this is the definition I found

What Does Samskara Mean?

>According to various schools of Indian philosophy, samskaras are the subtle mental impressions left by all thoughts, intentions and actions that an individual has ever experienced. Often likened to grooves in the mind, they can be considered as psychological or emotional imprints that contribute to the formation of behavioral patterns. Samskaras are below the level of normal consciousness and are said to be the root of all impulses, character traits and innate dispositions.

https://www.yogapedia.com/definition/5748/samskara

So the way we learn in yoga - and I really kind of mean the type that Americans are taught in a yoga class - not deeply versed in the yoga sutras and possibly removed fro the tradition by a million miles - one "calms" the Samskaras by doing asanas and (mindfully) releasing tension in that area.

Now my personal experience is that I feel very good after a yoga class and very calm, and it's a calm that can last for quite some time, but the primary difference for me is that I've never actually visited whatever "thought or intention" lead to the creation of that Samskara in the first place. I've simply put it to rest for a bit and it can very easily come back.

But still I think it's a complimentary sort of practice. One thing I do is that if I am doing anapanasati for awhile I will notice a very persistent tension in a certain area (like the shoulders) that simply will not calm itself, so I might spend a bit of time doing some asana to relieve that physical tension.

I sometimes think about this as meditation is a kind of "inside out" practice where as yoga is "outside in." But again I am not well versed in yoga.

Still I am just wondering if there is anyone here who is perhaps versed in both disciplines that could shine some light, tell me where I'm wrong. Also I'm just generally interested in hearing from anyone who has thoughts about this or what your experiences are.

Metta

So my practice largely follows Thanissaro Bhikkhu's teachings and generally the Thai Forest tradition. I recently discovered there is actually a "monastery" near me, with one of the monks having been ordained by Thanissaro Bhikkhu: https://sarasotaforestmonastery.org/

However if you visit you'll see that it's not really a monastery. They were never able to raise the funds for one. It looks like those efforts were stalled. So they have a house in a suburban area of Florida, with a lot of land behind it which they had planned to use to build such a place. There are a couple of screened in meditation huts and a place to pitch a tent.

A couple of thoughts I have:

Firstly:

I have done intense retreats in the past, and I have a pretty solid meditation practice and can sit for many hours just fine. I am a marathon runner (who lives in Florida) so I have some degree of fortitude and can handle some heat. But forest monk I am not. I am also adored by mosquitoes, repellant (which they advise bringing) or not.

Am I up for this? Actually, heck yeah. I am sure I am not the only person on this forum that likes to test their boundaries. And Florida is not Thailand, after all. I imagine that I would not sleep very well on a visit (I sleep in a nice home with A/C set to 72 degrees and a fan on my face) But practice mode is different. I think I'd be ok. Or not, but that'd be ok. Great practice opportunity.

Thing is it's just hard to find any information about this place. It feels like I'd be driving two hours to go to a house in Florida to sit in the woods. Probably some prejudice on my part thinking because it doesn't look like a real monastery it feels off.

Secondly:

Having seen this, I also wonder wow, can I help? I don't just mean drop off donations and help clear the woods help. I mean, how could I help fundraise? What are the guidelines for this sort of thing for lay practitioners? Like, can I contact some other Buddhist organizations, start a campaign, get a grant, I mean I don't know. Something impactful. Bring attention, start recording dhamma talks and put them online. Or am I thinking too much like an American capitalist?

I have to fully disclose a mix of generosity and greed in my motivations. I look at their stalled efforts to fundraise and just think "this is terrible. These folks need a proper place" and I feel genuine compassion. Although I don't know, maybe they're just fine. They are forest monks. But I also wonder if part of me is being selfish thinking I'm just looking to help them out so I can visit. I guess it doesn't matter. It would help them more than me.

Anyway wondering if anybody knows about this place.I will look into visiting at least in cooler whether and maybe buy a mosquito net.

Thanks for seeing my rambling thoughts on this. Any advice, in particular on the fundraising part, would be helpful. I'll reach out to the lay practitioners that help out with the place but wanted to get opinions here.

Hey folks, I realize I've been sitting on this resource I've been using for myself and realized I could share it here since you people are pretty nice. 😁

I don't know how many of you are familiar with Bhikkhu Bodhi's lectures on the Majjhima Nikaya. They can be found here: [https://bodhimonastery.org/a-systematic-study-of-the-majjhima-nikaya.html](https://bodhimonastery.org/a-systematic-study-of-the-majjhima-nikaya.html)

and in some other places.

I had started listening to these over 10 years ago and never finished. Having them online is ok but there's a bit of friction involved in listening from a website. So I found a website called fourble([https://fourble.co.uk/](https://fourble.co.uk/)) that let me take these audios and turn them into a podcast.

\[UPDATED\]

That RSS link is here: https://fourble.co.uk/bodhimn-260728-0.rss

Please let me know if it works, or not, or any issues. It's listed as a "private" link but I believe that means you need the exact URL to get to it. (i.e. it's not searchable from outside the site)

If they look like they're in a strange order, it's because the site I originally found them on had them organized by number and not the order Bhikkhu Bodhi covered them. But in the RSS they are in the intended order.

My next trick is to see if I can actually do one better and clean up the audio on these. They're old. It's not great. But it is listenable.

I would then have to find another place to store them and create another RSS feed and I haven't figured that out yet.

I don't think I'm violating any type of copyrights or any such by doing this, or at least I hope not. It's pretty clear who's work this is and where it's coming from. Someone let me know if they think otherwise. I'd like to think that I'm helping preserve and propagate some good dhamma here before it gets lost. If anybody knows anyone from the Open Buddhist University then I'd be glad to let them know but it doesn't

There's other stuff out there that might deserve similar treatment (the pali course was really good too, another thing I never finished). but I'll start here.

Hey folks, I realize I've been sitting on this resource I've been using for myself and realized I could share it here since you people are pretty nice. 😁

I don't know how many of you are familiar with Bhikkhu Bodhi's lectures on the Majjhima Nikaya. They can be found here: https://bodhimonastery.org/a-systematic-study-of-the-majjhima-nikaya.html

and in some other places.

I had started listening to these over 10 years ago and never finished. Having them online is ok but there's a bit of friction involved in listening from a website. So I found a website called fourble(https://fourble.co.uk/) that let me take these audios and turn them into a podcast.

[UPDATED]

That RSS link is here: https://fourble.co.uk/bodhimn-260728-0.rss

Please let me know if it works, or not, or any issues. It's listed as a "private" link but I believe that means you need the exact URL to get to it. (i.e. it's not searchable from outside the site)

If they look like they're in a strange order, it's because the site I originally found them on had them organized by number and not the order Bhikkhu Bodhi covered them. But in the RSS they are in the intended order.

My next trick is to see if I can actually do one better and clean up the audio on these. They're old. It's not great. But it is listenable.

I would then have to find another place to store them and create another RSS feed and I haven't figured that out yet.

I don't think I'm violating any type of copyrights or any such by doing this, or at least I hope not. It's pretty clear who's work this is and where it's coming from. Someone let me know if they think otherwise. I'd like to think that I'm helping preserve and propagate some good dhamma here before it gets lost. If anybody knows anyone from the Open Buddhist University then I'd be glad to let them know but it doesn't

There's other stuff out there that might deserve similar treatment (the pali course was really good too, another thing I never finished). but I'll start here.

When I launch the fundrise app I am getting a "Software update required" message. Would love to post a screenshot but I guess the app blocks this for security reasons.

The message reads "you are using an outdated version of the app. Please visit the google Play Store with a compatible device running Android 9.0 or newer to update to the latest version."

There's no "update" version in the play store. I have tried uninstalling/reinstalling, My android version is 16.0. (I'm in a Google Pixel phone). Anyone else?

Is there any prompting that will tell notebook LM what title to give audio overviews? I do multi part long form deep dives, so need them to say Part 1: [title] Part 2: [title] and no amount of prompting seems to work. Yes I can rename them but I like to create them one after another so it's just an extra bit of friction.