u/Theres3ofMe

I've found working in main contracting that there are an awful lot of ruthless cvnts - to put it frankly. I've experienced this a few times in my career - twice this year - and they've always been long serving senior ops guys/directors who have made decisions which has made my life hell/battered me down/affected my job. I can't take it anymore , its really getting me down.

I genuinely need to know whether switching to Client/Consultancy will be game changing- before I make a serious and final decision to leave the industry for good....

Hi everyone,

Im a female Surveyor working in the Construction industry and have done for 8 years now. I really enjoy what I do, and take alot of pride in my work. However in those 8 years, ive been made redundant twice (liquidation), ive been let go twice (usually as result of the Ops team not liking my commercial risk averse approach/decisions, and/or just because they could). Ive left twice to seek promotion/salary increase, and worked freelance couple of times which I really enjoyed (through an agency that is). Its been a very unpredictable, uncertain and tumultuous 8 years let's say.....

I like to think im very good at what I do, because on a few occasions over the years ive been complimented for the high quality work I produce surrounding tender/contract negotiation/Administration.

But this year has been horrible for me, and it has absolutely wrecked my confidence and im on the verge of having a bit of a mental breakdown.

I had been at my large main contracting company for 2.5 years, but was working away from home for 6 months, and it eventually took its toll. I struggled to find a position internally, locally to me, so decided to leave which I was gutted about as very good company. Anyway, long story short, the new company I went to ended up screwing me over. Had 3 interviews for a role which was 30 mins from hoke, but when i started, after a week they basically told me id be based on a job 4 hours away (and they'd hired someone else for job i applied for). I was so angry, at this stunt they pulled as I left a job to get away from working away from home and was of understanding it was a job 30 mins away. Anyway, I said to them I cant to do, its not what i applied for. It was the senior operations guy who seemed to be an asshole about it, basically starting putting words in my mouth and saying i was ok with it in interview. After 2 weeks, they (this operations guy, and my commercial manager who didn't dare support me) get me into a room and say I need to rethink my position and accept the situation or leave. I was mortified and felt surrounded. I ended up getting upset because of the shock and confrontation.

Few days later they let me go.

After a day or two of coming to terms what happened, I reached out to a colleague of mine at my old company and asked if she knew of anyone who was looking for a Surveyor since I left. Amazingly there was, and after a fee phone calls, I had an interview and started back at old company- in a part of the business that was a "subsidiary" and was its own little silo. Very much operated more like a small domestic outfit than a large principal contractor. The team of surveyors I work alongside, are so lovely.

Within a couple of months, 2 surveyors left and 1 handed in notice - but then rescinded after a couple of weeks. Then someone else went on sick leave. After a few months I REALLY got to understand why- the culture became toxic because of how it was being run by this operations director and his senior ops guy - who were old school misogynistic, ruthless assholes basically. I got interviewed by commercial managers who are absolutely opposite of them- so wasnt to know! We had 4 graduate Surveyors who were given 10 jobs each and 2 other experienced surveyors. The workload was insane, id never seen anything like it. Ever. I was really struggling to adjust, because my standards were very high- having worked in the "parent" side of the business which was operated totally differently with a great culture and solid processes and procedures. Whereas, it was so poorly run this subsidiary, that I tried to demonstrate areas for improvement. My commercial team where fully on board with it, and put me in charge of a workshop to improve processes. It reached a point where i was drowning with workload and compiled a multi project task scheduler, to demonstrate this - then sent to my commercial manager (this commercial manager was new to the team like me, and came from the "parent" side of the business like I did).

The workload was affecting my personal life, I was more moody at home, started drinking more, and was just miserable.

I get invited to a meeting with my commercial manager, and his manager *commercial director (who has been understanding and supportive up until this point). Anyway, it was to discuss my workload and my welfare. Out of nowhere, the commercial director did s complete 360 on his support/attitude and was like "youve only got 6 contracts to do, I dont understand?". I said "ive sent you the evidence.... you know there is a process/procedures issues in the team - which you got me involved in a workshop for, and now suddenly im not doing good enough?". It fell on deaf ears. He continues "everyone else is super busy but dont hear them voicing concerns over workload " - (he was right - but they *were* complaining and stressed as we all spoke about it- but noone else would present evidence like I did? But I knew two surveyors had jobs taken off them because they become problem jobs, and another surveyor had a job taken off him because he didn't get on with the PM).

So for about 20 mins, I was sitting there wondering what the hell happened? It felt like I was a problem all of a sudden. Transpires i am apparently setting my standards too high, that im not churning out results quick enough - because all the other grad surveyors are turning them around quicker (yeh but I know their quality is poor and they use copilot alot). Also, out of 35 contracts to do on the team, 26 of them were allocated to me- but this commercial director didn't seem to grasp that major obvious stat.....

Anyhow, I began to get upset as it felt like i was being challenged/surrounded/targeted ONCE AGAIN. This commercial director left the room and I was left with my immediate commercial manager. He was genuinely lovely and total opposite to his manager. Very calming and explained things in a supportive way. He understood where I was coming from and that ultimately, i was setting my standards too high - for a part of the business that operates..... far below this. He went on to say that i was one of the best surveyors he had worked with, so its not a competency issue at all. He said to go home for a fee days and think about whether I can adapt or reconsider, but hed support me if I wanted to move somewhere else in the business.

I went home absolutely devastated and just cried all the way home. How the hell has this happened to me twice this year? Working for a company which is headed/run by ruthless, toxic operation guys? When I was home, I just fell into an emotional breakdown to be honest- because I just can't take this battering/rejection/abandonment (basically) anymore. 😞

Im having personal problems surrounding family too, so i feel like this was the straw that has broken my back finally.

I guess im not expecting a magical answer to this, but would really appreciate some advice or words of support to help me reframe things, or identify a different path which is better for me?

Thank you for taking the time to read.

I work in the Construction industry, as a Surveyor, for a Main Contractor. I entered as a late starter, aged 39. Before then, I'd worked within Civil Service, Estate Agency, Trade Union and Insurance (i was a jack of all trades, master of non - low-skilled basically).

I have been in the Construction industry 10 years now, and in that time I have worked for several main contractors- I have always struggled to be happy - due to mostly project location, commuting and/or hostile/ruthless senior management.

This is the most stressful industry ive ever worked for, in terms of sheer workload, senior management pressure/ruthlessness and absence of any empathy. Ask anyone who works in construction, white collar level, and they'll get it...

I love the contract law side of my role, but hate the cost reporting side - constantly getting hammered on why margins are down and where I can make gains.

I became a Surveyor, because I knew the industry has a massive shortage of Surveyors - hence why its very well paid (plus its proper stressful - to heights id never encountered before). So im in a fortunate position of their being an abundance of jobs in the market, but I think the industry is no longer a good fit for me.....

So, what industry do you consider, or work in, that is the least greedy and/or ruthless - that i could switch over to with my skill set?

I miss working in a nice positive culture, where i can help people and not those in positions of power who only care about margins....

Thanks all 😊

I love listening to the radio at night, especially when I switch the lights off to settle down to sleep. A big part of this was because I really enjoyed listening to BBC Radio 5 Live after 22:00pm.

Firstly, it was Phil Williams - superb presenter, engaging and had some cracking guests on. He left in 2019.

Then I loved listening to Colin Murray - a real character who was fun to listen to - but he left and Gordon Smart took over who was boring (sorry 😬).

Then Tony Livesey joined and i was absolutely buzzing, because he's a fantastically entertaining presenter, who came over from 5 Live Drive (where he was equally brilliant). His show each night would open to instrumental opening of the Style Councils, 'Shout to the Top' , where id shake my body in rhythm to opening beats 🤣🤣 EVen one of his listeners wrote a song just for Tony, which would be played most nights "hes been on a journey - LATE NIGHT LIVESEY'". He'd have some fantastic guests on including this music professor studying in America, who'd spend an hour intricately studying and explaining chords, rhythms etc of specific popular music. I know why he has left, but is 5 Live jinxed or something?

Now? Im lying here in bed listening to some fella who quite frankly, just makes me want to turn it off. Its gone so boring now Tony Livesey has left, im absolutely gutted. I really looked forward to my radio sessions at night, it was one of my little pleasures 😕

So why are so many excellent presenters leaving 5 Live, especially the night time shows?

Thankfully Stephen Nolan is still on at the weekend, but once he goes, 5 Live is for bin tbh...

I recently started a Project QS position looking after 4 mini projects with each value over £1m. Its the first time im running my own job/s, but I underestimated how stressful it would be?

One project, sure, more than manageable, but multiple? Its not for me to be honest. I don't know whether im coming or going half the time, jumping from 1 task to another in different jobs. Then there's workload - ive got to place nearly 30 orders by end of September. Some of which i need to place by 3 weeks time - with really weak and inaccurately costed tender packs/submissions *by Bid Team that is.

I guess you could call me a Subbie QS, even though I work for a MC?

I dont understand how any Subbie QS looking after multiple jobs, with multiple orders to review/draft downstream, cam honestly be ok with that? Compared to say an MC QS, who is on the 1 big job, and has more time to tender/procure with long lead ins.

Im interested to hear from current or past Subbie QSs and why you think managing multiple jobs is better maybe, than being on the 1 big job over say 2 years, with a MC?

To be quite frank, it's causing me a massive fucking headache.

Examples:

Graduate QS on my team - i said to him 'how are you getting orders out so quickly? Who's doing your scopes?'. He said 'oh I used copilot by bringing together the subbies quote, some email comms from PM etc'.

Asked PM to send over a scope. Sends me over a 27 page scope, initial reaction is like 'fuckin ell proper detailed that'. Until I actually properly read it and im like 'wtf is this?'. Asked PM and said he used ChatGPT by merging the subbies quotes, some client info'. I mean, it has the subbies fucking T&Cs embedded in the scope?!?

Ive worked with other PMs who are absolutely spot on. Actually know how to compile a scope of works from scratch. Ive done scopes myself in the past, with help of wider project team, so I know what should be included in one. But nowadays, how fucking lazy is using AI for scope of works?!

Between 5 and 8 years max, is generally the range of being at QS level.

I'll go first with the details:

- Tier 1.

- 8 years.

- £52k plus car.

- North West.

I don't mean in terms of their lack of knowledge surrounding the works to be delivered, but the a) shortcuts (getting subbies to start without an order, or getting a general agency worker to undertake works they're not qualified to do) b) not keeping an updated programme c) repeatedly undermining you surrounding commercial matters (i.e commenting on orders you drafted which have already undergone SQS/MQS review)d) cant be arsed/dont know how to do a decent scope of works - so expects you to visit the site to understand what needs to be done, so that you write them up instead).

I manage a few small jobs circa £1m each, and the other PMs i have are an absolute pleasure to work with - but this particular PM - well it's starting to make me feel a bit ill tbh.

My superiors are aware of this (Commercial) and im sending them evidence of, but because PMs are slim pickings atm, I think our Ops Directors are totally averse to letting him go...

A few of QSs I work with have refused to work with him, so its not a 'me' issue.

Aside from that, I have a great boss, very supportive, and rest of my team are lovely, but this PM is making me feel ill now..

I'm only just beginning the next phase of my career as a Project QS looking after a few low-value jobs. But I do find myself naturally curious what's out there, and noticed for a few months now that the market for SQSs is really strong!

Usually you'd expect companies to aim for the Project QS market, as cheaper than SQS, but they seem to be pretty set in targeting SQSs - why is this, do you think?

My company/team is hiring for an SQS, and its just because we are lacking senior QSs to support/mentor Project QSs like me (its only a small team of 8). When i asked my boss how he was getting on interviewing thrm, he said the quality of candidates was quite poor? Alot of people over reaching and thinking they're at SQS level, when they're not.

Digressing slightly..

So I see SQSs as those who typically manage jobs over £20m+, and have a couple of package QSs under them, reporting directly to area Commercial Managers. So are we saying its like 90% PRS/BTL driven right now, with typical projects ranging between £20m and £40m - hence the high demand for SQSs?

I don't know if id want to run my own £20m plus job tbh, sounds a lot of stress- bad enough looking after 3 to 4 little jobs....

Interested to hear from SQSs themselves and what their thoughts are.👍

Me and mate mid 40s, and we've known each other decades. Never been on holiday abroad with her until now. I like to consider myself a good laugh, but I'm absolutely not a drinker. I'll have a few cocktails dont get me wrong, but that's it tbh. I knew my mate loves her vino, and on a night out she's a little bit wild but I think I balance her out, because she doesn't get absolutely wasted then. Ive heard stories from her being wasted but they're generally with people who are a bit bonkers in first place....

This is the first holiday we have ever had together, because she became single recently.

I was up for the holiday because ive never had a girlie beach holiday before - you know, sunbathing, chilling, going beach, etc. I missed out on that in my 20s. So when opportunity arose to book a holiday with her to Benidorm, I was like definitely! I've been to Benidorm before btw with an ex, so knew what to expect it's fine. Im very open minded and up for a laugh.

Well, when I said she loved a vino - she loves a vino, or 10...

All throughout the day she would have a drink. Proessco in morning, cocktail at 11am, then couple more wines at lunch, another wine or two at tea time. Then at night, she'd have like 4 double bicardi and lemonades, bottles of lager and shots. She cant go more than a few hours without a drink. On way back to hotel, she goes supermarket to get another drink before bed.

Now, I let her be when we're out of a night, I dont tell her to rein it in as not my place. IF, she was falling all over place fine, I would.

But what i didnt realise was how much responsibility was felt was put on me, when it came to walking us back to hotel 3am in the morning, what was a 30 min walk. She's a good looking girl and gets alot of attention which is fair enough like (6ft blonde), but she is flirty to boot (putting it mildly, as she is going through a "phase"), so practically every fella we walked passed she was like 'hey what you doing?!' - just bring attention to herself . Ordinarily it'd be funny middle of the day and she is good gun, but it just put me on edge in case we attracted the wrong d1ckh3ad. I was glad to be sober as a judge to ensure we go back every night, but I dont know, i just didnt want that responsibility? I mean, probably just as well I wasn't bladdered too, as would put us both at risk.

Why didnt we get a taxi? Because I dont trust getting in any foreign taxi, especially middle of the night! You hear of some horror stories, and i am so flipping risk averse, that i was trying to avoid all risky scenarios (I know walking 3am for 30 mins isnt risk free, but therr were plenty of couples and women around at that time too, so figured that was the safest option tbh).

Listen, ive had some good laughs with her and I just let her be herself, but ultimately yeh, i don't ever want to go away with her on any holiday - let alone a beach holiday- as she just wants to get pissed each night? She said she'd be up for going to like Paris or Berlin (im a massive city break person, usually, with mates - and solo), but all I can think of is her just wanting a drink all the time, and i usually want to be in bed by 22:30 each night as sight seeing next day! 😂 She didnt even want to go the big outdoor market with me yesterday, or go on a boat trip, or do the open top bus. And you know, thats fine if thats all she wants to do, but yeh, it just made me realise that I could never go on holiday with her again, as much as i love the bones of her! Not just an ale thing, but a 'things in common' thing?

So come on, you must have some stories to tell of similar situations to me?! 😂 How did you deal with it when you were away? Did you fall out? Did you go as far as to stay in another room? Whether youre female, or male, id like to hear your own stories 👍

First time ill be looking after my own job, and never reported upstream before?

Im a through and through package QS, so im a bit nervous that I dont have the experience to report , and accompanying lingo to go with it .

Like my CVR template has cash flow forecast for next few months, then another sheet for cost to complete, and another 5 tabs linked to original tender/budget/allowance...

Ive got my first CVR meeting next month, so id really appreciate your tips/advice please.

Oh - and i deal with different NEC Option subcontractors, which doesnt help as only been administering NEC orders for 2 years...

Cheers 👍☺️

No doubt alot of us have been around the block. Shit project? Been there. Prick of a Commercial/Operational Manager/Director?Got t-shirt. A job that burnt you out? Tell me about it. 60/90 min commute? What's new. Absolute useless PM? I could cry.

Here are some situations ive been in:

1. Average pay - whilst everyone else earning more.

2. Shit Project Location (more than 1hr +commute).

3. Shit PM/Senior Management Tea - don't follow procedures, inept, or just ruthless cvnts.

4. Poorly run company - treats employees poorly, or, doesn't run jobs properly, or, never hires enough QSs for a job so spreads you thin.

5. Shit job (project) - working on a boring job, based on a compound that looks straight out of Beirut.

6. Inept staff - fellow team members who dont know how to put a proper ITT pack together, or write a scope of works properly.

So, if you absolutely had to say no to 3 of those in the list, what would they be and why? Any particular stories or examples would be good.

I've experienced them all. Pains me wherever I land, I end up having 1 of the above I'm not happy with (construction for you).

I'm currently in the position where I have a piss poor incompetent PM - BUT - my positives are;

1. I WFH 2 days a week;

2. I'm 35 mins from office:

3. and rest of team are lovely.

So come on, what are absolute no's for you? What will you put up with, and won't?

This can be as far reaching as Formby BTW.

I used to go Aquatic Centre but either, pools are regularly closed for schools or competitions, or they're rammed with students and kids. I can never relax, as I suffer from anxiety 😔

Im happy to go late at night (9pm swim), or very early morning (6am), provided i know its gonna be quiet. Im also happy to go as far as Formby? Not early morning obviously, but after work or of a weekend?

Which leads me onto the Formby Pool Trust? Ive walked past it a few times when ive visited Formby at the weekend and it looks lovely. Its not an area which has students, but appreciate it is a family area with kids. Does anyone know much about this Formby Pool Trust at all please?

Other option is Uni of Liverpool, which im definitely considering for first thing of a morning (as its a decent sized pool and I dont expect it to be busy with students that time of morning 😂 They dont do late evening swims sadly.

Would really appreciate your help.

Came across this via another forum, and whilst I did know restaurants have food ratings, I've never paid much attention to the sticker in their window/info on their website.

I guess I just take for granted the food will be ok? We live in a country with very high standards surrounding H&S, so it wasn't too much of a surprise to find that 99/100, ive never had food poisoning.

Nevertheless, it was interesting to check out my local restaurants on Lark Lane. You can check out yours via here: https://ratings.food.gov.uk/

Apologies if a similar moan has been posted! 🤣

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First time at Manchester Airport T2 - since the refurb that is....

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There is a queue for EVERY RESTAURANT.

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I've never had to queue to get into somewhere to eat at T2 before? In fact, I've never queued at any Airport I've been to around the world! 🤣

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Did I miss something?

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Its not even summer holidays yet.

When I'm in the office those 3 days (T, W, T), come Friday, my head is absolutely burnt. It's proper full on in the office, in terms of being long days, over stimulating, and having to turn into a chameleon given the diverse range of personalities....

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So, on Friday's, like today at home, I'm absolutely wrecked from previous 3 days in the office, to the extent that I can't be arsed to do much? I had a Teams meeting this morning, which was bearable, as it was with a nice chilled person. But after that, I've gone in full 'CBA' mode....

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Please tell me I'm not the only one who feels like this on WFH Friday's.... 😬

I'm waiting for the Ryanair flight 897 from Corfu to Liverpool to take off, and looks like all or 98% of flights have been/are delayed?

Is this fairly common for Greek airports, more notably Corfu? Just be curious to find out what is causing the delays really.

Thanks all, any help is appreciated.