Chapter 2 (+Mantle game) foreshadow Chapter 5: Character and Location Parallels Discussion
For this discussion I’m going along with ‘Triple Trucies’ theory (pictures by u/Dakress23), which I believe to be very plausible. u/Darkress23 has easy to follow graphics, in summary Kris truces with Queen, double trucies with Berdly, and triple trucies with Noelle in Chapter 2. This could be analogous with Kris allying with Carol (Queen), Asgore (Berdly) and the Knight (Noelle). It might far fetched at first but it actually lines up well. This theory is an important point for my overall discussion of how Chapter 2 could have foreshadowed major events of Chapter 5. A key to this being Berdly.
Chapter 2 has a significant amount of festival related areas and set pieces, such as the Ferris wheel and carnival games, and the hometown festival is obviously being set up for Chapter 5. Interestingly, you can choose to give Berdly a gift in the carnival game part of Chapter 2 and he will join your team ‘only for this room’. Talking to Ralsei in Chapter 3 and speaking to Berdly through Noelle’s phone in Chapter 4, it’s likely at the hometown festival there will be an option to hangout with Berdly. This possibly foreshadowing if you choose an option like this in Chapter 5 Berdly will actually join your light world team but ‘only for the festival’. This got me thinking if there are anymore instances of Chapter 2 foreshadowing future events in the game.
The basement in Queen’s mansion, the song ‘Digital Roots’ plays. In the mantle games in Chapter 3, after the Ice Palace section you enter a similar basement area, and the song ‘Bit Roots’ plays. Roots having further significance in Chapter 4 with the prophecy of it. My first thought was obviously ‘Roots’ has to do with plants, so this will be a location in Asgore’s flower shop, simple enough with Friend or someone in the basement. But if Triple Trucies theory is true, I’ve thought of something else. There’s a pattern, both times you get to the Shelter or Basement… First get through Queen’s Mansion or the Ice Palace (Glaceir plays and people theorize it has Carols ‘theme’, link below), then the basement where ‘Roots’ plays, then finally shown in the Mantle game the Shelter. There’s a possibility of a Dark World being in the Holiday manor, the ‘Ice Palace’ Dark World.
Evidence for returning to the Holiday manor being, Susie mentions in Chapter 4 going back to recheck the code, there are unopened doors we haven’t been in and finally in the BASEMENT the same sound is played as near the SHELTER LINK. From this I believe there is going to be a second Dark World in the Holiday manor in Chapter 5 (or in Chapter 6), in which will have a basement ‘Roots’ section that will somehow lead to the shelter (have the key codes?). Following Triple Trucies theory (taking it literally): Berdly/Asgore are fooled by Queen/Carol, they work with them but are kept in the dark for their true plan; control of Noelle/the Knight. Queen/Carol captures/over-powers everyone and are sent to Queen’s/Carol’s mansion, so they have time undisturbed to bring the true potential from Noelle/the Knight. Some interesting connotations:
- Noelle wears the cardboard box to disguise from Queen, the Knight bears a helmet (Chapter 4 scene somewhat confirms they wear a helmet they can take off) to disguise their true identity.
- Noelle is already shown to have very strong magic in the Dark World, I imagine her mother would be just as strong or even stronger.
- Interesting to think about the Berdly/Asgore parallel. Their connection with Queen/Carol seems obvious, friendly but being fooled and literally used. With Noelle/the Knight it really depends on who you believe the Knight is.
- Berdly/Asgore find out the true nature of Queen/Carol and retaliates.
- Kris is truly allied with Noelle/the Knight (made the promise). Forced to go along with Queen/Carol and probably feels sorry for Berdly/Asgore (used to have a better connection with both but drifted apart).
- The first appearance of Friend was in Chapter 2.. maybe the first time we really meet them is in Chapter 5 since there are all these parallels.
- This might sound crazy but the Holiday manor basement might literally be linked to the Shelter. Mantle game: Ice Palace - - > Bit Roots Basement - - > Shelter. Chapter 2: Queen’s Mansion - - > Digital Roots Basement - - > Spamton Neo boss fight arena is a train track that leads too..? Chapter 5: Holiday manor - - > Roots Basement - - > Shelter?
- Pandora Palace (Queen’s Mansion theme) and Glaceir (Ice Palace theme) share a leimotif, LINK HIGHLY RECOMMEND this video. I also think the background of Gingerbread House (Holiday manor theme) has a similar leitmotif of 1-2-3-4, but I don't know how to check if the intervals are similar enough.
- The basement might be continually linked to ‘Roots’ as it is the ‘root’ of Kris’ trauma, would make more sense if it was linked to the Shelter.
I know the common theory is Kris, Carol and the Knight all being happy in the same group but it could be a lot more dynamic. I’ve probably interpreted the Triple Trucies theory a bit too literally, it’s hard to draw the line where the similarities end, but you can’t really ignore the analogous festival sections and the Queen’s/Carol’s Mansion, Ice Palace basement mantle game roots significance.
Anyway, what do you think? I’m curious to how the community interpretes this and if there’s anything obvious I’ve missed.