u/Zackkck

Edit: Source for the images

https://youtu.be/A63MzVw5AoU?si=lspSX28eVNcBwhGk

https://youtu.be/6T5GarrUyIw?si=ktpiIUKIcC8xpG56

https://youtu.be/-oNSZg8CpKw?si=SJQ-cAGASDmUGOiJ

I find Atreus saying "Right, because you have so much to live for" out of character for him to say. Atreus trying to use their love for eachother, and loneliness, to get them to sacrifice themselves is pretty out of character too.

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I say this because Atreus shows compassion and empathetic concern to everyone, including his enemies. Like Thor, and even Odin afterwards here. And he obviously knows that this kind of manipulation is very wrong

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Thinking further on this though, I believe why Atreus was being like this, callous and trying to convince Surtr to essentially sacrifice his life and his love's life, using his wanting to die, their love for eachother, and their loneliness, without showing concern here for their wellbeing, was because he was trying to close his heart; due to Brok's death and it's aftermath. He was going through so much at that point, and felt so hopeless. Thinking that acting this way was the only way to stop Odin. We even see this hopelessness when he suggests vengence is all they have left, and in a missable boat/sled ride between Brok's death and the titular Ragnarok; where he talks about accepting his fate being an easier thing rather than not accepting it. We even see him be hopeless and try to close his heart again when the innocent Midgardians are hurt. Key word, try, since he still felt compassion and empathy for them through being so visibly saddened and distraught at seeing this.

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So I firmly believe that in reality, Atreus did care for Surtr and Sinmara's well being, because it'd be out of character for him not to, but tried to close his heart anyway despite that due to everything that happened. As I said, there's precedent for this, as we see near before, and during, the actual Ragnarok.

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And despite his callous words and manipulation to Surtr and Sinmara, he does actually show true empathetic concern and compassion to Sinmara and her feelings, when he mentions that Surtr should tell her about this before he goes through with becoming Ragnarok without her. In doing that, he also showed empathetic concern and compassion to Surtr too.

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It just highlights how Kratos' open your heart moment was so important not just for himself, but for Atreus too

Hiding a disadvantagious witness? That's an early Edgeworth kinda move. A move that Phoenix admonished Edgworth for when Miles tried to hide the presence of Redd White by telling the bellboy not to mention him (image 5).

It wasn't even a temporary concealment kinda thing, which would be in character. It was a "We won't reveal this. Ever" kinda thing

Phoenix, even when it hurts his case, wouldn't have done something like that. I mean, just see 2-4, when he could have won the case a couple of times, but didn't because the truth would've been lost. Same goes for Mia; just see her commend Phoenix at the end of 2-4

Sue's he'll do some trickery and concealment at times, but it's always temporary

i got all the images from YouTube

Head of Creative, Cory Barlog, interviewed the game director of the Faye game, Ariel Lawrence. She said in it that they were answering Odin's question of "Where do gods go when they die?" with the Everywhen. The narrative director & lead writer for the game, Jimmie Myers and Elize Morgan respectively, said that all gods go there when they die.

Although, that's not entirely true, since Kratos and Calliope went to Hades when they died, and Gow4 confirms that demigods = gods. There are also other things to consider in regards to where the Norse gods go when they die. Mimir says quite a few things about this exact topic (images 1-3)

I included images 4-5 to show evidence that indicates that even if a god or mortal was a unintentional casualty of the devastation of an ongoing battle between 2 people, it would still count them as "dying in battle", and would qualify them for Folkvangr and Valhalla. All the spirits who died due to the devastation of Faye and Thor's fight were qualified for Folkvangr according to what most of them said. Dying to mishap in the Norse realms sends gods and mortals to Helheim, but this specific kind of mishap qualifies them as "dying in battle"

I planned this post prior to the Faye trailer, and was gonna catagorize the 6 on screen deaths of the norse gods into worthy dead, and unworthy dead. I'm gonna do it anyway, as well as explain other facts about the Norse gods' afterlives

Magni died in battle, so he would definetly count for Valhalla. He's Aesir, so he can go there on his own. It's worth noting that Thor is half giant on his mother's side, so Magni would be part giant too. Mimir indicates in images 6-7 that all giants, dwarfs, elves, and animals go to the light of Alfheim; regardless of how they died (It's why Faye was perplexed in the trailer that she wasn't in the light of Alfheim)

Despite this, Mimir implies in image 2 that Magni's godhood takes precedence, so he's not going to the light. This means the "godhood taking precedence" thing would apply to Modi, and Thor as well. Even Atreus if something ever happens to him, and it happens in the Norse realms

Heimdall died in battle, so he qualifies for Valhalla, and is going there on his own.

Freyr died delaying Surtr from destroying Asgard for as long as possible. He used his sword Ingrid to stop Surtr's flaming sword for quite a bit, and then died when the sword finally pierced the earth. This absolutely qualifies as dying in battle. He's a Vanir god, so he likely went to Folkvangr, with a Valkyrie escorting him there.

Modi, well he didn't exactly die in battle. The final encounter that killed him definitely doesn't qualify as a battle, since he couldn't even defend himself. He was definitely cast down to Helheim. He doesn't need to be processed at the gates of Helheim, since he's Aesir, so he would've been able to go to the inner sanctum, the city, of Helheim with no issue.

Hel Walkers and their variants became such a plague in Midgard, and other realms, because Hel was getting full due to all the worthy dead mortals, and non "Aesir" gods, having no way to reach Valhalla and Folkvangr; because of all the Valkyries being absent. Because of Hel being full, the gates to the city of Hel were closed off to all the newly deceased, and with no where else to go, they'd return to the land of the living. Modi would've been able to enter the city anyway, since he's Aesir, but the city being full would be an issue he'd have to deal with

Baldur, as peak as his fight was, doesn't immediately qualify him for Valhalla. That fight ended with Kratos sparing his life. He then tries to kill Freya, who literally can't defend herself due to being cursed by Odin. Kratos then grabbed him to save her, and killed him since he wasn't gonna stop trying to kill her. It looked like Baldur was putting resistance in trying to escape, but not a whole lot. I'm not entirely sure if Kratos' killing of him would count as Baldur "dying in battle". You can argue it does count, but also argue that it doesn't. I know Baldur went to Hel in the myths due to him getting murdered by Loki's shenanigans, but u know, myths and gow aren't always 1 to 1

Thor, well, his peak round 2 fight with Kratos ended with Kratos sparing him. He then let go of his hammer, and told Odin no when he demanded him to kill Kratos. Odin then immediately speared him fatally. That fatal encounter with Odin was definetly not a battle. It was just murder. As brave and beautiful as Thor was for changing, and committing to trying to change more for the better for his children and family, I believe Thor went to Helheim. I recently learned from u/Odd_Hunter2289 that it is confirmed that Thor did not go to the higher plane of existence when he died: https://x.com/mattsophos/status/1605150171976716288?t=l-lDuvRJz9PyPB3uNrj71g&s=19

They did nothing evil, and were fulfilling their duty of keeping living people from the city of Hel. That was it. They did almost nothing wrong, except for immediately restoring to violence, and preventing any possibility for a peaceful resolution to the conflict by locking the way back to the temple of Tyr from us.

Kratos recognized that, and paid respect to them. Showing his remorse that the troll was killed by him, for his mistakes of keeping Atreus' true nature a secret from him.

I do agree with Tyr that Kratos was deeply hurt by what happened to Greece when he murdered Helios, and that Kratos' legacy is a complicated one, and that goodness is a practice, not a destination, and that Kratos is more skilled now compared to before, in regards to resisting darkness when misfortune falls on him

It is a bit of a disservice and inaccuracy though, that they didn't have Kratos mention more of the context behind his restoring of the sun. While he definitely did do it to save Greece, as Kratos and Tyr established in the successful aftermath of their 2nd sparring (and during gow2 and ghost of sparta in regards to Sparta) that Kratos did care for his homeland and people, not just his loved ones (which is another thing to support the assertion that his legacy "has always been complicated one"); he also did that for another reason. And it was because of the agreement he made with the Olympians; that they would free him from his nightmares once he's served them enough. Him saving Greece for that reason would make his intent behind restoring the sun, selfish, alongside altruistic. And considering how useful he'd been to the Olympians, Kratos would've definetly thought that they would save him from falling, so they can use him more. So was it really a sacrifice?

To counterpoint that last sentence, it's shown throughout chains of Olympus, and it's end, that he had massive doubts that they even would uphold their deal, due to how they've treated him. Like in his 2nd convo with Eos, and his response to Atlas' question: "I ask you Spartan. What good is the promise of an Olympian?" "It is all I have Atlas!"

And this doubt would, logically imo, extend to them saving him. I feel the logical and inevitable next step to this doubt would be "If they won't keep their end of the deal, how do I know they'll even save me? They could just be done with me now"

So his saving from falling was likely in his mind, not a complete guarantee. Which would make it a sacrifice

All this context should've been mentioned during the aftermath of Kratos' 3rd spar with Tyr

Edit: corrected one of my points a bit

Edit 2: added a few words to distinguish facts from my opinon

It's been said many times already by Krinkels along with Swain that it's completely canon to the animations, and the literal only continuity problem is the outfits, which can easily be explained away.

Nothing in mc5-mc12 said that our characters couldn't have worn their iconic outfits prior to mc5. The outfit scene in 6.5 still works even if they wore those outfits before then. It's a little confusing, I understand, but it's really not that complicated. The 6.5 outfit scene still works

Sanford and Deimos going in naked even after they wore outfits in mpnc and mpn2 also isn't that weird. Grunts have been established to be able to put several things in their inventory, even when naked. Just see Hank in mc1-3. Them not wearing armor when they come in during mc5/mc5.5 also isn't that weird, since they went through all of the aahw/nexus bases in mpnc ep1, and Nexus City prior to entering the tower, without armor. Just clothes and belts

(Apart from image 1, which I got from a different reddit post, I got every image from YouTube)

How were Kratos and Atreus' original fates gonna happen precisely, based on the stuff we learned in both games?

Loki's mural prophecised the events of gow2018 happening the exact way it did happen, which ended with Kratos and Atreus seeing Loki's mural (this seeing of the mural was prophecised too in the texts in Jotunheim, with the stuff about the Guardian of the Jotnar returning to Jotunheim when the indestructible (Baldur) was killed. And also the fact that the whole point of 2018, an adventure that the giants predicted, was to spread Faye's ashes atop the highest peak in all the realms (which would be the place Kratos and Atreus ended up in, in the end of 2018)), and them having a healthier and closer relationship together. 2018 also ended with Kratos opening his heart more compared to the beginning of the game.

Also, even before gow2018, Atreus still loved and cared for his father a lot, despite their difficult relationship; and even though he said Kratos should've died instead of his mom, he himself said shortly after, that he didn't really mean that. Just that he wished he was better. Even during the tension in their relationship throughout all of Ragnarok, Atreus cared deeply for his father, and vise versa. Atreus has also always been compassionate to everyone, even bad people.

It was also prophesied (based on gow ragnarok's ending when Kratos, Atreus, and Angraboda see Faye's mural, Faye being seen arguing with giants in the 1st scene of the 1st section of Loki's mural, and the 2nd section of Faye's own mural showing her destroying the 3rd section of her son's mural) that Faye would, agaisnt the giants' wishes, destroy the 3rd section of Loki's mural in an effort for her future husband and son to not learn of their fate, so that they may "forge their own path". A path that would end better for them than what was prophecised of them. Although she did end up leaving most of the Kratos death scene in tact, as well as the final scene of Atreus with 3 wolves, and a scene of Mimir on a tree with Huggin and Munnin. Faye, as we learned, never intended to use Atreus and Kratos as a tool agaisnt the Aesir, or to save the Jotnar. She simply wanted them to be the best version of themselves, (compassionate, open hearted, having a healthy relationship with eachother and with other people) and to have a good future, for that sake alone. Out of love.

It was also prophecised to my knowledge that Angraboda would show Loki the non destoryed version of his mural

So with all of that still prophecised to happen prior to the events prophecised in the 3rd section of Loki's mural actually happening, let's look at the 3rd section in question. I got the norse translated image from this reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/GodofWarRagnarok/s/FNVcIMdcSN

Kratos dies in Atreus' arms after fighting Thor, and afterwards, joins Odin during Ragnarok (Surtr can be seen in the background of the scene of Odin and Loki teaming up). The words "betrayal" and "broken trust" are seen around this scene of Kratos dying also. Did Atreus betray Kratos in that scene? Odin still dies in these prophecised series of events, as seen with Groa's ragnarok prophecies, and Groa's secret shrine that our characters see in gow ragnarok when they went to Alfheim. The Loki prophecy was seen by Groa, and archived by Angraboda's mother jsyk

So, why would Atreus join Odin while Ragnarok was happening, after his father died?

What the heck did the final scene on the 3rd section mean exactly? The one with Atreus and the 3 wolves

And my biggest question, did Atreus whisper Kratos' soul, to save his life after losing to Thor, and that's what that sorta snake thing coming out of his mouth is supposed to be? Similar imagery is shown in the same 3rd section. Specifically, when Angraboda gives Loki the bag with giant marbles filled with giant souls

Would he have done this agaisnt Kratos' wishes, and that's why the words "betrayal" and "trust broken" are shown in that scene? If that's not why, then what are those words supposed to mean in that context?

Also, just to inform, since I've seen quite a few people say this, but the scene in Loki's mural that depicts someone dying in Atreus' arms is Kratos, not Odin. The guy dying in Atreus' arms has a thick build with thick arms, is shirtless, has a red streak on their eye akin to Kratos' tatoo, and has no eyepatch.

Odin is depicted in this mural too, when Atreus allies with him. That depiction of Odin has him not shirtless, with a thinner build and thinner arms compared to the man dying in Atreus' arms, and has an eye patch.

(Apart from image 1, which I got from a different reddit post, I got every image from YouTube)

Loki's mural prophecised the events of gow2018 happening the exact way it did happen, which ended with Kratos and Atreus seeing Loki's mural (this seeing of the mural was prophecised too in the texts in Jotunheim, with the stuff about the Guardian of the Jotnar returning to Jotunheim when the indestructible (Baldur) was killed. And also the fact that the whole point of 2018, an adventure that the giants predicted, was to spread Faye's ashes atop the highest peak in all the realms (which would be the place Kratos and Atreus ended up in, in the end of 2018)), and them having a healthier and closer relationship together. 2018 also ended with Kratos opening his heart more compared to the beginning of the game.

Also, even before gow2018, Atreus still loved and cared for his father a lot, despite their difficult relationship; and even though he said Kratos should've died instead of his mom, he himself said shortly after, that he didn't really mean that. Just that he wished he was better. Even during the tension in their relationship throughout all of Ragnarok, Atreus cared deeply for his father, and vise versa. Atreus has also always been compassionate to everyone, even bad people.

It was also prophesied (based on gow ragnarok's ending when Kratos, Atreus, and Angraboda see Faye's mural, Faye being seen arguing with giants in the 1st scene of the 1st section of Loki's mural, and the 2nd section of Faye's own mural showing her destroying the 3rd section of her son's mural) that Faye would, agaisnt the giants' wishes, destroy the 3rd section of Loki's mural in an effort for her future husband and son to not learn of their fate, so that they may "forge their own path". A path that would end better for them than what was prophecised of them. Although she did end up leaving most of the Kratos death scene in tact, as well as the final scene of Atreus with 3 wolves, and a scene of Mimir on a tree with Huggin and Munnin. Faye, as we learned, never intended to use Atreus and Kratos as a tool agaisnt the Aesir, or to save the Jotnar. She simply wanted them to be the best version of themselves, (compassionate, open hearted, having a healthy relationship with eachother and with other people) and to have a good future, for that sake alone. Out of love.

It was also prophecised to my knowledge that Angraboda would show Loki the non destoryed version of his mural

So with all of that still prophecised to happen prior to the events prophecised in the 3rd section of Loki's mural actually happening, let's look at the 3rd section in question. I got the norse translated image from this reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/GodofWarRagnarok/s/FNVcIMdcSN

Kratos dies in Atreus' arms after fighting Thor, and afterwards, joins Odin during Ragnarok (Surtr can be seen in the background of the scene of Odin and Loki teaming up). The words "betrayal" and "broken trust" are seen around this scene of Kratos dying also. Did Atreus betray Kratos in that scene? Odin still dies in these prophecised series of events, as seen with Groa's ragnarok prophecies, and Groa's secret shrine that our characters see in gow ragnarok when they went to Alfheim. The Loki prophecy was seen by Groa, and archived by Angraboda's mother jsyk

So, why would Atreus join Odin while Ragnarok was happening, after his father died?

What the heck did the final scene on the 3rd section mean exactly? The one with Atreus and the 3 wolves

And my biggest question, did Atreus whisper Kratos' soul, to save his life after losing to Thor, and that's what that sorta snake thing coming out of his mouth is supposed to be? Similar imagery is shown in the same 3rd section. Specifically, when Angraboda gives Loki the bag with giant marbles filled with giant souls

Would he have done this agaisnt Kratos' wishes, and that's why the words "betrayal" and "trust broken" are shown in that scene? If that's not why, then what are those words supposed to mean in that context?

Also side note, the words around the Kratos' death scene are arranged just a little differently compared to 2018, and ragnarok during ironwood

Also, just to inform, since I've seen quite a few people say this, but the scene in Loki's mural that depicts someone dying in Atreus' arms is Kratos, not Odin. The guy dying in Atreus' arms has a thick build with thick arms, is shirtless, has a red streak on their eye akin to Kratos' tatoo, and has no eyepatch.

Odin is depicted in this mural too, when Atreus allies with him. That depiction of Odin has him not shirtless, with a thinner build and thinner arms compared to the man dying in Atreus' arms, and has an eye patch.

Curious cat was a website where Krinkels answered questions from people. Sometimes there were lore questions he'd answer also. The website went bankrupt, so links to the questions and answers don't work anymore. So, here's 2 resources that archived the questions and answers:

Here's a recently made Google doc by MatCeeVee and Hardway Jones, which details and archived all the questions Krinkels answered in his CuriousCat page; with categories assigned to them. Lore and non lore questions, as well as answers that are labeled outdated

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GlVDVId8jsG2GTaF4dVKtZB-thsUaq2z71ubLr0YVxg/edit?usp=drivesdk

Here's a YouTube video archive of Krinkels' Entire Curious Cat Page, recorded by XDefault:

https://youtu.be/lsbU\_cs3LPI?si=eZB8Ewn\_fpqafMLr

Here's another MatCeeVee Google doc, that was created to compile twitch clips of Krinkels answering Madness Lore Questions. Archiving on this doc stopped at April 11, 2024:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/12NRXlRuDbK6N5nqt1\_k3Hpge6W-Cyqnfz1WZy7Odud0/edit?usp=drivesdk

Thank you to Zepumpkineater for giving this google drive thing! It has all the snoopables, briefings, dialogue, and story beats of project nexus 2's story mode! Including the s3lf eater dlc, and all the dialogue in the Maker's room in story mode!

https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/mobile/folders/1zEPjlzi-pgBnmCeLdrxMb1CeY0PR8j2X

Thank You to Christian0h for making a video on the posters seen in the story mode and arena mode of mpn2! :

https://youtu.be/FamauxZSmdY?si=DN7Pq1fGU0UcowXz

Calliope's braclet, and Lysandra's ring

This the same mf who agreed to work with Omega and Rouge, when he literally was throwing hands with Omega minutes ago, and had only known Rouge in his mind for minutes, and could've went solo during then too.

Make it make sense man. "i DoN't hAVe tIMe fOr tHis" my foot

help lol