u/divran44

I'm reading a 9th-century Breton charter (in the Cartulary of Redon) and I'm puzzled by the meaning of Franci.

The charter comes from a Breton-speaking area, close to the Romance frontier. Several people are designated as Franci, yet most of them bear unmistakably Breton names (Hobrit, Uuruual, Antruual, Omni, Gurgost, Junuuocon, Tutuuallon, Iarnuuant) and seem to be local landholders or notable members of the community.

My first instinct was to read Franci as "Franks" in the ethnic sense, but the onomastics make me hesitate.

In Carolingian and 9th-century charter Latin, could Franci already function primarily as a legal or social designation (i.e. "free men", or people subject to Frankish law) rather than an ethnic one? Or would an ethnic interpretation still be the default?

The charter :

> Noticia in quorum presentia qui subtertenentur quomodo venerunt monachi, Conuuoion abbas et Cumdelu prepositus, in mallo publico ante missum Nominoe, nomine Dreuuallon, interpellantes Fetmer propter campum illorum nomine Camdonpont, quem habebat raptum et malo ordine exaratum atque feminatum (sic); et venerunt in ratione, et non dedit Fetmer fidejussores testificantis (sic) omnibus quod inique et mendaciter egisset Fitmer rapere ipsam terram; et testificaverunt .XIII. Franci, hi sunt: Hobrit, Uuruual, Burg, Antruual, Omni, Gurgost, Junuuocon, Tutuuallon, Roenhebet, Fitbert, Iarnuuant, Risbert, quod plus esset et supradicta terra ex tigranno Acum, in Lancon, quam ad couuenran Fitmer; atque juraverunt in altare sancti PETRI quod sic esset verum, et judicaverunt scavini quod igni erant supradicti viri ad testificandum et ad jurandum; hii sunt scabini: Branoc, Tiarnan, Arthuiu, Catlouuen, Uuorocar, Benedic, Uuathin.

I'm reading a 9th-century Breton (843, in the Cartulary of Redon) charter and came across something that surprised me.

The charter comes from eastern Brittany (Langon), in what appears to have been a predominantly Breton-speaking area, though very close to the Romance-speaking frontier. Several individuals are described as Franci, but most of them have clearly Breton names (Hobrit, Uuruual, Antruual, Omni, Gurgost, Junuuocon, Tutuuallon, Iarnuuant) and seem to be local landholders or notable members of the community.

One reason I'm wondering is that in modern Breton the adjective frank means "free", borrowed from the same root. I realize this doesn't necessarily tell us anything about the meaning of the Latin term in the 9th century, but it made me wonder whether a similar semantic development may already have been at work.

In Carolingian and 9th-century charter Latin, could Franci already function primarily as a legal or social designation (i.e. "free men", or people subject to Frankish law) rather than an ethnic one? Or would an ethnic interpretation still be the default?

The charter :

>Noticia in quorum presentia qui subtertenentur quomodo venerunt monachi, Conuuoion abbas et Cumdelu prepositus, in mallo publico ante missum Nominoe, nomine Dreuuallon, interpellantes Fetmer propter campum illorum nomine Camdonpont, quem habebat raptum et malo ordine exaratum atque feminatum (sic); et venerunt in ratione, et non dedit Fetmer fidejussores testificantis (sic) omnibus quod inique et mendaciter egisset Fitmer rapere ipsam terram; et testificaverunt .XIII. Franci, hi sunt: Hobrit, Uuruual, Burg, Antruual, Omni, Gurgost, Junuuocon, Tutuuallon, Roenhebet, Fitbert, Iarnuuant, Risbert, quod plus esset et supradicta terra ex tigranno Acum, in Lancon, quam ad couuenran Fitmer; atque juraverunt in altare sancti PETRI quod sic esset verum, et judicaverunt scavini quod igni erant supradicti viri ad testificandum et ad jurandum; hii sunt scabini: Branoc, Tiarnan, Arthuiu, Catlouuen, Uuorocar, Benedic, Uuathin.

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Hello, I’m trying to understand the reconstructed Proto-Celtic forms behind the Welsh and Breton paradigms of the verb "to be"

As far as I understand:

Welsh yw and Breton eo may derive from Proto-Celtic *ets

Welsh mae / Breton emañ might come from something like *ets mendu-

Welsh sydd / Breton zo has been linked to a possible *etsi io formation

However, I’m not confident about these reconstructions or how widely accepted they are.

I’m also unsure about the origins of Welsh ydw and Breton eus.

In addition, Old Breton attests forms like is for “to be,” which may also go back to ets, but I’m having trouble connecting all these developments into a coherent picture.

Could anyone clarify the Proto-Celtic reconstructions involved, or point me toward reliable explanations of how these forms developed?