u/esInvests

Theta decay, measured on 19 years of real SPY quotes: ATM extrinsic dies ~2× faster than theo
▲ 45 r/options

Theta decay, measured on 19 years of real SPY quotes: ATM extrinsic dies ~2× faster than theo

None of this is new or novel, I'm posting this moreso for newer traders to get a feel for some of the more nuanced relationships between theoretical pricing and markets.

  • Data: end-of-day SPY option chains, Jan 2007 → Jul 2026, marked at bid/ask **mid**.
  • For every SPY expiration, on the first trading day with 43–46 DTE I "select" three structures at that day's chain: the ATM straddle (strike nearest spot), the 25Δ strangle, and the 10Δ strangle (strikes nearest those deltas). Entry requires live bids on every leg.
  • I then track those **exact fixed strikes** every day to expiration and compute **extrinsic (time) value** = mid − intrinsic at that day's spot.
  • Each path is normalized by its entry extrinsic; the curves below are the **median across all 796 qualifying expirations**, with interquartile bands on the chart.
  • 796 expirations = every monthly plus every weekly that had quotes ~45 days out.

**The ATM curve is nothing like the textbook.**

By 21 DTE the median real ATM straddle has lost 71% of its extrinsic. The spot-pinned BSM curve (what every theta-decay illustration actually plots) says it should have lost 31%. The real curve decays at roughly **double** the textbook rate, the whole way down.

**The ranking is inverted.**

Theory says a fixed OTM strike decays *faster* than ATM. In the data, the wings **outlive** the body: at 21 DTE the 25Δ strangle still holds 57% of its extrinsic while the ATM straddle holds 29%.

https://preview.redd.it/4x78uoh7yhbh1.png?width=2782&format=png&auto=webp&s=2de2aadf4f8e1bc341e4909bc5fc0c28aad6b70a

https://preview.redd.it/m4caroh8yhbh1.png?width=2086&format=png&auto=webp&s=55343c4b043d19acf99aef21a92f724903d0fdb8

https://preview.redd.it/8ukw6a0ciibh1.png?width=2385&format=png&auto=webp&s=572dc5f40b2ce3ed064a1ae941a6eed6cc28d936

Why this happens (no mystery, no "edge" claim):

  • The textbook curve assumes spot stays glued to your strike. It doesn't. Spot wanders — which *drains* extrinsic from the ATM strike it left behind and *feeds* extrinsic to whichever wing it approaches.
  • It's a gamma/path effect, priced in and well understood — but it means the decay chart everyone reasons from describes a contract that stops existing the moment the market moves. If you buy an ATM option and the market trends, your extrinsic doesn't follow the hockey stick; it follows the yellow line.

What it's NOT saying: extrinsic disappearing is not seller P&L.

  • A short straddle "collects" that extrinsic but pays out intrinsic when spot moves — this chart is about where time value goes, not about who profits.

**Limitations:**

- Calendar-day DTE → you can see a 7-day weekend sawtooth in the curves.

- Medians of normalized paths; means are noisier but same shape.

- Two data regimes (true EOD 2007–2014, last-hourly-snapshot 2015–2026) — I split the sample by era and the shape/ranking is identical in both halves.

- Extrinsic floored at 0 (deep-ITM mids occasionally print under intrinsic).

- SPY only. Single-name behavior (earnings, harder-to-borrow) will differ.

- Deep-ITM puts near ex-div carry early-exercise richness — second order at these strikes.

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u/esInvests — 16 hours ago

community workshop 27june at 5pm PT

hey everyone, two quick heads up for those interested.

i coordinated with the mods before posting this. i know the community is guarded against stuff like this, rightfully so, but it also sucks for people to lose the potential resource if interested.

ive been active in the community long before i started any content creation, this is the stuff i genuinely spend my time on. i do these because i had some help early in my trading that literally changed my trajectory. there are no ads, email collections, anything during either of these. they are legit completely free to access.

  1. im relaunching a friday livestream series for beginners. it's 5pm PT every friday for the next 7 weeks. we are working through common mistakes and how to address them. you can find these on youtube via outlier trading. the first episode was on
    1. note, there are no ads during these, no pitches, etc. it's completely free to pop in and participate.
  2. i used to host community workshops each month and got inundated so i stopped them. this weekend, im hosting a reboot at 5pm pt on saturday 27 june. the session is interactive and led by myself but we'll have group breakouts, etc. the session is ~90 minutes across three phases.
    1. market context and trade generation. get repetitions analyzing the market and building trades that fit your hypothesis
    2. trade building - this part we'll spend time analyzing the implications of different structures for trade ideas. for example, if you're trading something to the upside, you could buy shares, buy calls, sell puts, go synthetic long, trade a vertical, etc. the purpose is to help traders build an intuitive understanding of the trade offs of different configurations.
    3. open convo, if there are any specific topics you're interested in exploring further. we'll have time to do that.

if you'd like to join, simply fill out this google form below. (no email required but if you'd like a reminder on Saturday, you can drop one in). note, you do need to have your camera on to participate - if that's a blocker for you, totally cool - just not the right fit.
https://forms.gle/HEoHsNAdyYDo81C68

u/esInvests — 11 days ago
▲ 19 r/options

trading research pt 5 - qqq long strangle

u/EveryLengthiness183 asked:

>I have a good one for you. This would be for QQQ and the bet is to buy a 100 point OTM call and a 100 point OTM put right at the open of the US cash session at 9:30 eastern. Sell both when one goes ATM. The theory is that the side that goes ATM will gain more extrinsic than the side that goes deeper OTM will lose extrinsic in most cases. The US cash open usually produces the largest volatility, so making a 100 point move in the first 15 minutes to an hour is common. If a 100 point move hasn't happened by 10:30 am eastern, sell both and close the trade.

results:

https://preview.redd.it/5ybkecxc358h1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=d821c7b6b38492c46119d0264cdb45f903bae220

https://preview.redd.it/zve31b8e358h1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=5b3678e8be4bb14db6875b0484b91d272d4710d1

https://preview.redd.it/ny512cze358h1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=cd321e29e6416f402326d17b965170c38367cd3e

https://preview.redd.it/cq68ko8g358h1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=16a6790e8175e7a642f6aecd19a1b5ab085c41e1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

im doing a few pieces of research for the community each week. if you have something you'd like researched, drop it below. be specific, im going to feed it to an AI coding agent (typically claude or codex). include ticker, rules, timeframe, etc.

for context on capabilities, im using my db/terminal (this is what i use for my own research).

- Equity data EOD back to ~1980 (mainly indices in the deep tail)

- Minute level equity, indcies, etfs, etc back to 2000~

- EOD options full universe 2007

- intraday options full universe 2015 (15min increments, 5 for a smaller subset)

- options has full greeks, vol, etc.

- all economic, fundamental, technical, sentiment, news, guidance, analyst ratings, etc. pretty much everything.

here are the prior pieces:

https://www.reddit.com/r/options/comments/1u4dgcz/0dte_spx_iron_condor_study

https://www.reddit.com/r/options/comments/1u63m6i/spx_iron_fly_research_results/

https://www.reddit.com/r/options/comments/1u63zqw/qqq_short_downside_puts_research/

https://www.reddit.com/r/options/comments/1u6s42a/research_offer_pt4/

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u/esInvests — 18 days ago

research offer pt4

hey everyone, im trying to do a piece of research or two each day for the community, two goals.

  1. get people more interested in doing research on their own,
  2. learn more myself

if you have something you'd like researched, drop it below. be specific, im going to feed it to an AI coding agent (typically claude or codex). include ticker, rules, timeframe, etc.

im using a homemade tool, for capabilities:
- Equity data EOD back to ~1980 (mainly indices in the deep tail)
- Minute level equity, indcies, etfs, etc back to 2000~
- EOD options full universe 2007
- intraday options full universe 2015
- all economic, fundamental, technical, sentiment, news, guidance, analyst ratings, etc. pretty much everything.

here are the prior pieces:
https://www.reddit.com/r/options/comments/1u4dgcz/0dte_spx_iron_condor_study

https://www.reddit.com/r/options/comments/1u63m6i/spx_iron_fly_research_results/

- https://www.reddit.com/r/options/comments/1u63zqw/qqq_short_downside_puts_research/

reddit.com
u/esInvests — 21 days ago
▲ 38 r/options

QQQ short downside puts research

hey everyone - just finished a piece of quick research for another trader - if anyone has anything you'd like me to look at for you, drop it below.

here are the prior pieces:
https://www.reddit.com/r/options/comments/1u4dgcz/0dte_spx_iron_condor_study

- https://www.reddit.com/r/options/comments/1u63m6i/spx_iron_fly_research_results/

current research question from u/taesty1

>I have one I would do myself if I had the data - what's the daily and cumulative PNL (say, last 3 years) of a strategy selling the next-day 2% and 3% downside puts in QQQ and holding it to close? This is two separate strategies, one selling 2% downside and the other selling 3% downside. So if today is June 15th, the strategy would sell the June 16th expiry 2% and 3% downside puts in QQQ, and do it again the next day and on and on.

results:

https://preview.redd.it/7u09c8biyc7h1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=6896a6c97b58c0b9784b12fa548fee47bf398d1a

https://preview.redd.it/p6tjmm3jyc7h1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=cea1c8a197d977f06579c7468e2f9b838d2dd49a

https://preview.redd.it/867rk5qjyc7h1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=ae263d1c9e7a23c78aeaff44feba9d51574eddf3

https://preview.redd.it/iv0u23ckyc7h1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=7cd8c9a2b15491c8553b9115b18b2113c348ff34

https://preview.redd.it/x3lu92skyc7h1.png?width=1920&format=png&auto=webp&s=263abb9521f2efd8525ae340e24b82533562a913

reddit.com
u/esInvests — 22 days ago

research offer

hey everyone - just finished a piece of quick research for another trader - if anyone has anything you'd like me to look at for you, drop it below.

here's the piece from above: https://www.reddit.com/r/options/s/7NKF3LxSPg

why am i doing this?

  1. i really hope to get more people interested in doing their own research, its easier than ever with your fav ai tool and some data.

  2. im a full time trader - i spend most of it researching anyways, its easy enough for me.

notes.

for data, i pretty much have everything. minute level stock data to 2000, intraday options data to 2015, EOD to 2007 (full greeks, iv, etc). economic data, analyst ratings, guidance, earnings, fundamentals, etc.

only ask is be specific - i am effectively taking your prompt, dropping it to claude code to review - making sure its logical, grabbing the right things, and reporting back.

ill make a post w/ the results and tag the question owner.

reddit.com
u/esInvests — 23 days ago
▲ 37 r/options

0DTE SPX Iron Condor Study

I recently made a post offering to do some basic research for folks for two reasons:

  1. to try and get more people interested in doing research for themselves
  2. because i spend most of my time researching and now with AI its pretty quick.

u/Fit_Equal6932 had asked:

>If you have the data. Here is one for fun and also because it is a popular topic. How would PnL change for 0dte iron condors if you were to get filled passively vs crossing the spread? Assume whatever mechanistic entries you want. The OPRA quotes data is huge and it will probably take me many weeks to process this from massive. If you can run this it will be good. It will give some insights into how good the MM pricing is, whether the fair lies within the spread most of the time so that probabilistically the strategy can perform a lot better with passive fills (getting those fills is another matter of course and so this is still mostly academic). Running this over a longer time horizon (just the weekly expiry for when true 0dte was not available) could also tease out affects like whether the popularity of this strategy has distorted pricing with huge volumes of retail trading this every day and selling into bids from MMs.

here is the summary to their Q:

0DTE IC Passive vs Cross Fills SPX, 2022-2026 (i used the date range for 0DTEs)

filling passively at mid instead of crossing is worth ~$18.45 per 1-lot iron condor 3.3% of the ~$587 credit (primary config: 10:00 ET entry, ~16 shorts, 50-pt wings, held to PM settle).

It's real but modest and it has not eroded over the true-0DTE era (flat at 3.0-3.5% every year).

https://preview.redd.it/1dd7prtqby6h1.png?width=2086&format=png&auto=webp&s=2ad12d7ac8cdcae9fa4925db0d1b577f8286bf01

https://preview.redd.it/dkx6r9vrby6h1.png?width=2086&format=png&auto=webp&s=7e81549f4a7b03576aeb1c1ba491b4a2a98f2147

reddit.com
u/esInvests — 24 days ago

strategy research

Have a trading idea you want tested? Drop it down below. I’ll pick a few and run a thorough analysis and share as a post.

The entire purpose for this is to try and encourage traders to lean more heavily into the research side of trading. It used to be way more expensive and harder to conduct but with AI that’s all changed.

I spent thousands of hours self teaching programming, database management, etc. I’ve spent over $100K on options data.

Less than 25 days ago I was doing research in my own db and randomly wanted to see what AI could do. Now, I’ve completely moved my trading backend to the new tool that I built with AI. Same goal as above, to encourage others to make their own and begin researching.

You don’t need to pay for half ass software that can’t do exactly what you want. With AI and a weekend you could reasonably stand up your own.

So - if you have a trading idea - can be a strategy, market effect, general curiosity that you’re curious about researching drop it below. I’ll pick a couple and do it for you.

I have everything needed. Intraday options data for the entire universe back to 2014. Daily back to 2007. Equity, index, etc back to 1980. Crypto. Prediction markets. News. FOMC. PPI. Earnings. Fundamentals. Technicals. Anything.

reddit.com
u/esInvests — 27 days ago
▲ 11 r/options

Monthly fully time trader ama

Hey everyone, setting up this month's AMA to catch up with everyone and chat about trading!

This could be a really cool time to chat about a recent project I started, Project No Code. A really important part of my trading is conducting research. I've spent over six figures on data and thousands of hours self-teaching how to set up a database, program, etc.

A few weeks ago I started exploring what AI could do on a similar project and was absolutely blown away. I decided to see if I could build a new research DB without writing any code whatsoever. Fast forward and as of today the DB has over 1 billion rows of data, combining options data, equity, futures, economic data, etc.

I've been documenting my process with the goal of sharing with everyone. This is the kind of thing that can completely transform your trading. As simple as it is, being able to actually research your ideas is something most traders overlook - and I get it. It's hard, expensive, and wildly time consuming. Not so much the case anymore - AI and CLI interfacing agents have completely changed that.

SO if you have any questions about the project, let me know! In the meantime, below are some contextual materials to hopefully help get you started. I had claude make slides to summarize it - you can literally drop these into a claude chat to get started.

Starting with a basic test premise

Example prompt

Summary output

The starting pieces > I'm not affiliated with any in any capacity

https://preview.redd.it/w6q3zg33675h1.png?width=1197&format=png&auto=webp&s=a883501e92b3ae65e6c93fe41293922758d0dee0

https://preview.redd.it/e3963rt7675h1.png?width=1193&format=png&auto=webp&s=bad8eef5376f86c05e798047457c861ac7d07be2

https://preview.redd.it/sm0czqqb675h1.png?width=1188&format=png&auto=webp&s=d687d0389f02eedf589ab50ddbcd396dfef44924

Model comparison

https://preview.redd.it/ukbhwjdh675h1.png?width=1175&format=png&auto=webp&s=1872a048a01d4f9098cba141abbfde005fb58b1c

this is SUPER important. AI HELPS you - you HAVE to fact check, audit, and direct things still.

Background for those interested:

My name is Erik. I'm a Marine Corps veteran and full-time options trader. I've been trading since 2007 and have been active in r/options since 2020. I've maintained a high 20% CAGR over this duration, my emphasis has been on consistency vs upside returns.

I grew up in a low income single-parent household. A high school teacher introduced me to investing and it changed my life.

Over time I built capital through manual labor jobs, flipping cars/motorcycles during college, and eventually expanding into real estate investing. I view wealth building through three levers: Savings; Investing; Income

Early on, savings rate matters most. As capital grows, compounding returns begin to dominate.

Trading is harder than most people initially expect, but it’s also far from impossible. With the right framework and enough time invested, it can absolutely become a viable career.

For transparency: I do run a YouTube community, but I’ve been posting in r/options for years and enjoy discussing markets regardless. This AMA is just to talk trading.

Happy to discuss things like:

  • How my trading changed as my capital grew
  • Position sizing frameworks
  • Managing volatility exposure
  • Building consistency over time
  • Strategy development / testing
  • Mistakes that slowed my progress

Or anything else options related.

Below are some previous posts that lay a basic foundation for trading.

  1. ⁠Trading Options for a Living- ⁠Provides a high level overview of my trading approach: ⁠https://www.reddit.com/r/options/comments/1gejy0q/trading\_options\_for\_a\_living/
  2. ⁠Stop Wandering Aimlessly- ⁠Offers a general learning syllabus for new options traders: ⁠https://www.reddit.com/r/options/comments/1c3hgfh/stop\_wandering\_aimlessly/
  3. ⁠Failure rate of options traders -⁠Summarizes common sources of trader failure: ⁠https://www.reddit.com/r/options/comments/1iaqtzx/failure\_rate\_of\_options\_traders\_3\_causes/

Looking forward to it!

reddit.com
u/esInvests — 1 month ago

SPY VRP 2007 to 2026

https://preview.redd.it/eqytp9swv64h1.png?width=885&format=png&auto=webp&s=ed8405f15c9639636bc62ce8545f0f630e573573

Sharing with primarily for the "sell premium for income" family. The SP500 (using SPY here) often has risk premium, but often it's not a ton.

68% of trading days show an average of 0.98pts of vrp.

this doesn't make selling bad but its a good reminder that blindly selling all the time puts you in front of distinct periods where not only can it be non-existent (32% of the time) but heavily negative (note the skew to the negative side compared to the positive).

all general FYI for strategy development and refinement.

reddit.com
u/esInvests — 1 month ago

project no code

how do you know if a strategy is actually viable?

how do you know what term you want to sell those options in typically?

first note - this post is geared towards more "serious" options traders. clarifying that for those hoping for a quick win or easy apply so you don't waste your time here.

the mission for this post is to provide a framework on how to use AI to literally turn you into a one man research machine with ZERO human coding.
why? because this kind of thing literally has life changing potential for people.

a huge part of my trading performance comes down to research and data analysis. i have spent over six figures buying high fidelity options data from CBOE - that's no shit. i also needed to teach myself how to code with no technical background.

for context because it normally comes up, ive maintained just over a 30% CAGR from 2007 into 2025. it's good but nothing record breaking, which is really by design. i value consistency heavily.

for my dabase and research work, it was massively inefficient, painful, and slow. regardless, it was worth it's weight in gold. i was genuinely able to move from taking best guesses to conducting thorough research to actually quantify and qualify things.

my strategy development process has 4 major steps:

  1. profit mechanism (PM) research. this is the underlying market effect were attempting to monetize. most options traders start with focusing on structure: they learn a vertical spread and go try to trade it. this is wrong. there is no edge in a vertical (or any structure). edge lies in the profit mechanism and your ability to exploit it. an example of a profit mechanism is variance risk premia through earnings releases. in aggregate, options markets price rich volatility relative to whats realized in earnings - this can be monetized. we need to actually measure this.

- how much?

- how often?

- does it present in specific names vs others?

- etc.

  1. signal overlay. after the PM is understood, the next step is to search for signals that reliably help me measure it, track it, predict it, and monitor it. for the example above, things like how does the nearest term vol change coming into the ER. how does it trend relative to realized through the release, etc.

  2. structure testing. once i understand what the PM looks like, how to track and predict it, i now need to see HOW to capture it. is a straddle best? strangle? iron condor? what term? what deltas? when should I exit it? etc.

  3. strategy development. i take the outputs from the prior 3 and build the strategy outline to codify the details. this is also where i include notes on the PM traits so I can monitor them isolated to validate how effective the PM edge is and trends.

holy wall of text, whats the point?

first, for those that didn't have one before, you now have a framework to build strategies. more importantly and the cool part, AI has closed the gap on every testing element above.

while AI is cool for automating, i think people dont realize how valuable it is to conducting research. a shitty strategy automated is still a bad strategy.

on monday, i randomly decided to start a project (which im working on as i type hence the time to write the novel). i wanted to see what I could accomplish using AI to handle ALL coding, infrastructure building, etc. i am honestly blown away. this is genuinely accessible to everyone interested.

a quick overview of the process.

AI plan > infrastructure build (VS Code and extentions (python, jupyter, R, etc), mini conda, git bash, duckdb > API locate (orats, thetadata, massive) > environment build (establish database) > scope target ingest (what tickers, what fidelity, etc. this is fueled by what you want to explore) > AI writes code and executes. you monitor.

why a database? it allows for effective iteration without running into API overhead constraints.

as it sits, my AI database has over 600M rows with options data back to 2007 for all optionable underlyings that I trade, with stock data for a wider universe (smaller data footprint), with insider trading, sec filings, news, earnings, guidance. i have all datapoints from FRED (think economic reports, FOMC, CPI, PPI, etc), BLS, etc.

the data is expensive to get and build the foundational data for the DB but going forward, much of it can be gotten for FREE from your broker and free data sources. the APIs don't need to be maintained long-term, they're a startup cost.

all with zero code. all available to any trader that wants to build their own following the same model.

a few notes:

  1. storage is important. im using RAID HDDs for cold storage and backup. I'm using pooled SSDs for warm storage and a solo SSD for hot storage. total size is 46TB. you don't need anywhere near this much btw. scope what you want with AI first to get a sense.
  2. the process isn't excessively human intensive but does require oversight. if you have no coding background, a good practice is to take the code from one (claude or codex) and feed it to the other to review.
  3. your computer is going to run for a while straight - longer depending on how robust the db is that you're building.

try it out - AI is making stuff like this accessible to everyone. you have nothing to lose and you'll learn a lot.

reddit.com
u/esInvests — 1 month ago
▲ 30 r/options

Monthly fully time trader ama

Hey everyone, setting up this month's AMA to catch up with everyone and chat about trading!

Background for those interested:

My name is Erik. I'm a Marine Corps veteran and full-time options trader. I've been trading since 2007 and have been active in r/options since 2020. I've maintained a high 20% CAGR over this duration, my emphasis has been on consistency vs upside returns.

I grew up in a low income single-parent household. A high school teacher introduced me to investing and it changed my life.

Over time I built capital through manual labor jobs, flipping cars/motorcycles during college, and eventually expanding into real estate investing. I view wealth building through three levers: Savings; Investing; Income

Early on, savings rate matters most. As capital grows, compounding returns begin to dominate.

Trading is harder than most people initially expect, but it’s also far from impossible. With the right framework and enough time invested, it can absolutely become a viable career.

For transparency: I do run a YouTube community, but I’ve been posting in r/options for years and enjoy discussing markets regardless. This AMA is just to talk trading.

Happy to discuss things like:

• how my trading changed as my capital grew
• position sizing frameworks
• managing volatility exposure
• building consistency over time
• strategy development / testing
• mistakes that slowed my progress

Or anything else options related.

Below are some previous posts that lay a basic foundation for trading.

  1. ⁠Trading Options for a Living- ⁠Provides a high level overview of my trading approach: ⁠https://www.reddit.com/r/options/comments/1gejy0q/trading\_options\_for\_a\_living/
  2. ⁠Stop Wandering Aimlessly- ⁠Offers a general learning syllabus for new options traders: ⁠https://www.reddit.com/r/options/comments/1c3hgfh/stop\_wandering\_aimlessly/
  3. ⁠Failure rate of options traders -⁠Summarizes common sources of trader failure: ⁠https://www.reddit.com/r/options/comments/1iaqtzx/failure\_rate\_of\_options\_traders\_3\_causes/

Looking forward to it!

>hey everyone! planned an hour but have a call that popped up. i'll check back on the thread for the next day or so. see you guys next month!

reddit.com
u/esInvests — 2 months ago