u/greensp3017

my kids asked what the abandoned thing in bay lake was and i didnt have an answer. so i looked it up. now im not sleeping.
▲ 0 r/u_greensp3017+1 crossposts

my kids asked what the abandoned thing in bay lake was and i didnt have an answer. so i looked it up. now im not sleeping.

ok im in line for cosmic rewind. extended evening hours. resort guests only. fireworks just ended. wife took the kids back to the resort. im standing here alone with my phone
let me just type something out because i havent been able to shake it

last summer we did fort wilderness for the first time in years. did hoop de doo with the kids. they loved it. on the way back to the boat my youngest pointed across the water at something rotting on the shore and asked what it was
i didnt know what to say

it was a water park. my parents took me there in 1986 when i was 12 with my brother mike who was 10 and my sister carolyn who was 4. we played tetherball at the campground for an entire afternoon. then the next day we went to the water park. it was called river country. i mostly remember the rocks you could climb and the floats. mike probably tried to push me off something. carolyn was too small for most of it. you dont remember a swimming hole the way you remember space mountain. its just water and sun and your siblings

i tried to tell my kids that. they wanted to know why disney just left it sitting there. didnt have an answer
so i looked it up when we got home and i havent been able to put it down

ok heres what i found

river country opened june 1976. disneys first water park. themed like an old time swimming hole. huckleberry finn vibes. they liked to talk about how the water came straight from bay lake. they pumped it up, ran it through filtration, sent it back down through the slides and into the swimming areas. natural lake water. that was the whole sales pitch
the first official ride down the parks signature slide, a thing called whoop n holler hollow, was taken by an 18 year old named susan ford. yes that susan ford. president gerald fords daughter. opening day. summer 1976. there are pictures

four years later in august 1980 an 11 year old boy from long island goes to river country with his family on vacation. swims for a few hours. days later he comes down with what turns out to be naegleria fowleri. the brain eating amoeba. it kills 97 percent of people who get it. he dies a week after his swim

his name was never publicly released. all the AP stuff from the time just calls him “an 11 year old boy from new york.” thats it. thats what we know about him. the boy who died at disney

his family sued. CDC investigated. they cleared disney. the amoeba breeds naturally in florida lakes during hot weather and could have come from anywhere. disney made a statement saying they were “of course concerned” but “knew of no action that could be taken.” they didnt chlorinate or change the filtration. kept it open
(side note the line just moved like a foot.)

two years later, august 1982, a 14 year old named howard pueppke goes down whoop n holler hollow. same slide susan ford rode on opening day. he comes off the end of it into the lagoon and drowns. the slide had warning signs that said strong swimmers only but no depth markers at the exit. his family sued. disney didnt change the slide
seven years after that in 1989 another 13 year old drowned on the same slide in the same way

we went in 86. between howard pueppke and that 1989 boy. mike and i went down that slide laughing
ok this part. this is the part

theres a book called realityland by david koenig. its a history of walt disney world. in it koenig describes a disney lifeguard who testified UNDER OATH in a deposition that on some days at river country, up to 75 people needed to be rescued from the lagoon. seventy five. river countrys daily capacity was 4000. so on a busy day almost 2 percent of guests had to be pulled out of the water by staff. the bay lake water was dark and the lifeguards couldnt see below the surface so they were rescuing kids based on other guests pointing and screaming. that was operating normal. seventy five rescues a day

i was in that water. mike was in that water. our parents had no way to know

the park ran like that for another 12 years after the 89 drowning. then in november 2001 it closed for the winter the way it did every year. and it just never reopened
disney went radio silent. no announcement. no closure date. you would call the resort and ask about river country and the cast member would say they “didnt have any information.” this went on for FOUR years. the gate stayed locked. the slides grew over with vines. the music kept playing inside the empty park because they apparently never cut the power. lights cycled on and off automatically
(battery at 28 percent. wife says the kids passed out on the bed with their costumes still on)

in 2005 disney finally said it was permanently closed
the part i think is most important and that nobody really talks about is the reason they actually closed it. florida passed a law sometime around 2000 that required water parks to use chlorinated municipal water only. you couldnt use natural lake water anymore. it was illegal. river countrys entire concept was illegal under that law. they would have had to chlorinate the lagoon and that would have destroyed the natural swimming hole thing they had built the whole park on. so they shut it down. they just didnt tell anyone they were doing it. for four years
then they let it sit and rot for fourteen more years.

urban explorers got onto the property and photographed the slides covered in moss. a guy named seph lawless took a kayak out onto bay lake and disneys security boats chased him off. he wrote afterward that he asked cast members why the park had closed and got different stories from each one. one said it was pollution from fireworks. another said it was bacteria. none of them mentioned the law. none of them mentioned the kids

in 2018 disney announced what was finally going on the site. a hotel. called reflections - a disney lakeside lodge. supposed to be themed around four disney films. bambi, brother bear, the fox and the hound, pocahontas. i read that list when it was announced and didnt think anything of it. then i went back and looked at it again
bambis mom dies. brother bear is literally about a man transformed after his brother dies and learning about reincarnation. fox and the hound ends with two friends who can never see each other again. pocahontas ends with kocoum being killed and her white love interest leaving forever
four disney movies about loss. a grief hotel. on the site of a water park where three children died and disney never named them

then in 2022 they cancelled reflections. covid. replaced it with a vacation club tower called lakeshore lodge. opens 2027. so the grief hotel never got built. just timeshares

my kids asked me on the ferry why disney just left it sitting there. i didnt have an answer that night and i dont really have one now. but ive been thinking about it for six months and figured id finally put it somewhere

mike and i went down that slide. carolyn was too little. we swam in that water at the same age howard pueppke was when he drowned in it
(ok i can see the loading bay. theyre about to call us. battery at 24 percent. just gonna hit post)

next time youre on the ferry to magic kingdom look out the right side. construction now but if you know what to look for you can still see where the slides came down to the water
idk. been carrying this for a while

u/greensp3017 — 3 days ago
▲ 0 r/Epcot+1 crossposts

the official reason disney changed the carousel of progress song in 1993 is a cover. the real reason is on the timeline.

five hard facts. all verifiable.

fact 1. the carousel of progress family at magic kingdom and the horizons family at EPCOT are canonically the same family across generations. ge sponsored both rides specifically to maintain that continuity. the horizons grandkids who lived in mesa verde, sea castle, and brava centauri are the carousel family’s great-grandchildren.

fact 2. from 1975 to 1993 the magic kingdom carousel used a song called “the best time of your life.” chorus: “now is the time, now is the best time of your life.” its a song about being present. about not waiting for tomorrow. about there being no future coming.

fact 3. in the 93-94 refurb, disney swapped it back to “great big beautiful tomorrow.” a song about waiting for a future supposedly on the way. official explanation: fans wanted the original back.

fact 4. also in 1993, ge ended its sponsorship of horizons. the future pavilion started dying. it closed january 1999. demolished 2003.

fact 5. in 1994, after the song swap, disney updated the carousel final scene for the last time and froze the family at christmas 1999. they have not advanced the scene in 32 years.

now put it together.

the song they put back in the family’s mouth in the 93-94 refurb is describing a future disney had already started demolishing. mesa verde, sea castle, brava centauri are the great big beautiful tomorrow the song is promising. disney was killing all three when they made the family start singing about them.

for 18 years the family had been singing an honest song. “best time of your life. no future coming. live now.” then disney took it out. why?

because the honest song was about to become a eulogy. a guest walks through EPCOT in 97 and watches horizons sitting half-empty, world of motion getting gutted for test track, dreamfinder being pulled out of imagination (and quietly banished to paris, but that’s a different post). communicore turning into innoventions. then they walk into magic kingdom into carousel of progress and the family is sitting there singing “there is no future coming. live now.”
thats a problem. that song in 1997 isnt nostalgia. its commentary.

disney needed the carousel family to keep promising the future they had just decided to stop delivering. so they swapped the song. then they froze the family at christmas 1999, the last year the new song could plausibly be sung without lying.

and the why is just money.

EPCOT was built on corporate sponsorships. by 93 the sponsors were bailing one by one. ge, exxon, kraft, eventually att. nobody was buying a kenmore because they rode carousel of progress. marketing budgets were going to tv and other channels you could actually count.

then frank wells dies in a helicopter crash in april 94. eisner’s business partner. the guy who kept eisners worst instincts in check. with him gone disney pivots hard toward maximum ROI per square foot.

and around the same time disney figures out their own IP is the biggest asset on the books. why build an original ride about an imagined future when you can build a toy story ride that also sells movie tickets and home video and merch. dreamfinder doesnt sell anything. horizons doesnt sell anything. they had to go.

tower of terror is twilight zone IP. test track is chevy IP. rock n roller coaster is aerosmith. mission space is a generic future shell built on top of horizons. the entire 90s buildout pivots from original to licensed.

and you cant tell anyone you stopped building tomorrow. the walt brand is built on optimism. so you keep the songs. you keep the walt quotes. optimism stays on the t-shirts. while the attractions that delivered on it get bulldozed for chevy rides.

the 1993 song change is the moment you can date the pivot from building optimism to selling it. they didnt do it because they hated horizons. they did it because horizons was an unmonetizable promise from an earlier era and they needed the family in magic kingdom to keep singing the promise out loud while they tore the actual thing down to put a chevy showroom in its place.

1993 = ge pulls horizons. 93-94 = song swap. 1994 = wells dies, eisner unchecked, final scene frozen. 1999 = horizons closes. 2003 = horizons demolished. 27 years of no updates since. thats not random.

sherman brothers wrote both songs. robert died 2012. richard died 2024. neither lived to see “best time of your life” come back. both died with the family still singing the future song over a future that got demolished. that part bothers me more than the rest of it.

ride it next time. listen to what theyre singing. theyre promising somewhere that doesnt exist anymore. has been for 27 years. disney could fix it any time. they havent.

reddit.com
u/greensp3017 — 3 days ago
▲ 71 r/podcasttheride+1 crossposts

Dreamfinder did not disappear in 1998. Disney exiled him to a haunted ghost town in Paris six years earlier…and I can prove it.

four hard facts. all verifiable.

fact 1. the Mayor of Phantom Canyon, the malevolent animatronic figure who presides over the haunted town in Phantom Manor at Disneyland Paris, uses the exact Dreamfinder face mold. confirmed by imagineers. documented on Disney parks wiki. the casting is not in dispute.

fact 2. Phantom Manor opened in April 1992. the Mayor was installed then. Dreamfinder was still actively operating at EPCOT in 1992. so the duplicate face existed in Paris while the original was still in Florida. six years before the original was retired.

fact 3. Dreamfinder was abruptly removed from Journey Into Imagination in October 1998. Disney has never given a meaningful public explanation. fans revolted. the replacement ride was so disastrous it had to be redone within two years. and yet Dreamfinder still never came back.

fact 4. the Mayor of Phantom Canyon presides over a town full of trapped souls who can’t move on. people frozen in place forever in a cursed waiting room. that is Phantom Manor’s entire premise.

now put it together.

Dreamfinder’s original job at EPCOT was collecting children’s dreams and storing them in the Dreamport. he was a literal collector of trapped imagination, kept in a pavilion you couldn’t leave without exiting through a gift shop.

the Mayor of Phantom Canyon’s job is presiding over the souls of trapped townspeople who can’t move on.

it’s the same job. one is the optimistic version. one is the cursed version.

Disney didn’t kill Dreamfinder. they cursed him. they built his replacement in Paris in 1992, a darker, malevolent, ghost-town version of him, and waited six years until they could quietly retire the original. now if you want to see Dreamfinder’s face still moving, still speaking, still operating, you have to fly to Paris and ride a ride about being trapped forever in a haunted town.

the Dream-Catching Machine is in the Disney Archives.
the man who operated it is in Phantom Canyon.

his only friend, Figment, is in a literal prison cell in Mission Breakout at California Adventure.

three pieces of the same character. three different parks. each preserved in a context slightly off from how they originally existed. like Disney needed to dissolve the original carefully, piece by piece, so nobody noticed the body was missing.

next time you fly through CDG, take the RER to Marne-la-Vallée. ride Phantom Manor. look at the Mayor’s face.
that’s Dreamfinder. that’s where he went. that’s what he is now.

u/greensp3017 — 4 days ago
▲ 100 r/Epcot+1 crossposts

Dreamfinder did not disappear in 1998. Disney exiled him to a haunted ghost town in Paris six years earlier…and I can prove it.

four hard facts. all verifiable.

fact 1. the Mayor of Phantom Canyon, the malevolent animatronic figure who presides over the haunted town in Phantom Manor at Disneyland Paris, uses the exact Dreamfinder face mold. confirmed by imagineers. documented on Disney parks wiki. the casting is not in dispute.

fact 2. Phantom Manor opened in April 1992. the Mayor was installed then. Dreamfinder was still actively operating at EPCOT in 1992. so the duplicate face existed in Paris while the original was still in Florida. six years before the original was retired.

fact 3. Dreamfinder was abruptly removed from Journey Into Imagination in October 1998. Disney has never given a meaningful public explanation. fans revolted. the replacement ride was so disastrous it had to be redone within two years. and yet Dreamfinder still never came back.

fact 4. the Mayor of Phantom Canyon presides over a town full of trapped souls who can’t move on. people frozen in place forever in a cursed waiting room. that is Phantom Manor’s entire premise.

now put it together.

Dreamfinder’s original job at EPCOT was collecting children’s dreams and storing them in the Dreamport. he was a literal collector of trapped imagination, kept in a pavilion you couldn’t leave without exiting through a gift shop.

the Mayor of Phantom Canyon’s job is presiding over the souls of trapped townspeople who can’t move on.
it’s the same job. one is the optimistic version. one is the cursed version.

Disney didn’t kill Dreamfinder. they cursed him. they built his replacement in Paris in 1992, a darker, malevolent, ghost-town version of him, and waited six years until they could quietly retire the original. now if you want to see Dreamfinder’s face still moving, still speaking, still operating, you have to fly to Paris and ride a ride about being trapped forever in a haunted town.

the Dream-Catching Machine is in the Disney Archives.

the man who operated it is in Phantom Canyon.

his only friend, Figment, is in a literal prison cell in Mission Breakout at California Adventure.

three pieces of the same character. three different parks. each preserved in a context slightly off from how they originally existed. like Disney needed to dissolve the original carefully, piece by piece, so nobody noticed the body was missing.

next time you fly through CDG, take the RER to Marne-la-Vallée. ride Phantom Manor. look at the Mayor’s face.
that’s Dreamfinder. that’s where he went. that’s what he is now.

u/greensp3017 — 4 days ago
▲ 67 r/thelittlemermaid+1 crossposts

Anyone else notice the dancing lobsters in Journey of the Little Mermaid are Figment-colored?l

u/greensp3017 — 5 days ago