Astral self defense - Everything you should expect, entities and 12 years of experience

The intent of this document is to provide readers with both clarity and empowerment regarding a subject that, while often dismissed or minimized within this field, is of critical importance. Specifically, we will be addressing the nature of entities, the principles of astral self-defense, and a consideration of firsthand experience.

This document will focus solely on subjects with which I have direct personal experience. Consequently, it will not attempt to present an exhaustive treatment of the topic. I do not speak on matters I have not personally observed, tested, or encountered. It should therefore be understood that I make no claim to complete knowledge; my perspective is limited to what I have learned through experience. Others may hold broader or deeper insights, and that is entirely valid; this is neither a competition nor a commercial endeavor. I maintain no blog, book, or website, and I offer no product or service for sale. The information presented here may be accepted or disregarded at the reader’s discretion. Finally, this document is not intended as a lesson in morality; how one chooses to apply the material remains entirely the responsibility of the reader.

I have twelve years of continuous involvement with astral projection, during which I have gained extensive firsthand knowledge. I share these reflections in the hope that they may inform the reader’s own understanding.

When fear regarding astral projection is discussed, the most common reassurance offered is that one cannot die from the practice and, indeed, that projection occurs naturally during sleep. On this point, however, there exists substantial disagreement, despite some presenting themselves as ultimate authorities. Certain individuals assert that astral projection can result in death; others warn of risks such as possession, loss of sanity, depletion of vital energy, or even abuse. While I do not subscribe to all of these beliefs, I acknowledge that the debate is significant. I do not claim absolute certainty about the full scope of what is or is not possible, and if harm were to truly to occur to someone, how would we even know? Although I am personally inclined to believe such outcomes are unlikely, at least in a direct sense, I recognize the limits of my knowledge.

With respect to my own position on these concerns, I do not believe a healthy adult can directly die as a result of astral projection, though no one can claim to know this with absolute certainty. In my view, individuals with serious health issues may face different risks. Speaking from personal context: as someone with a post-COVID cardiac condition, I have on more than one occasion required hospitalization during or after an astral projection episode. Just as a heart attack may occur during a vivid dream or in response to sudden shock, I believe a similar physiological event could be triggered by astral projection.

I also hold that some individuals with underlying mental-health vulnerabilities may find astral projection exacerbates their condition or triggers latent symptoms. Yet it must be stressed that such risks are not unique to astral projection; they can arise in ordinary life regardless of the practice. In my estimation, the likelihood of serious harm from astral projection for most people remains low. Nevertheless, it is not a practice immune to danger. It is not a realm of unqualified safety or universal benevolence. In my own case, I have accepted the possibility that, because of my pre-existing condition, astral projection may one day be the cause of my death.

A question I am often asked is why I continue to engage in astral projection, given the risks I have described. Would it not be simpler to stop altogether? The truth is that I cannot. I do not intend to dwell on this point at length, as the focus of this document is on what you can do rather than on myself, but some context is warranted. I began astral projecting at the age of 18 and am now 30. At that time, I was in excellent health and such concerns were of little relevance. However, once I initiated the practice, I found myself unable to regain control over it. It became, in effect, a door that once opened could not be closed.

This is why I do not personally endorse astral projection as a deliberate pursuit, though I will not discourage those who wish to explore it. For many, it can be transformative and even religious in nature. What one chooses to do with this information is, ultimately, none of my concern. In my own case, astral projection now occurs involuntarily and with great frequency; it is no longer a matter of choice. Nor is this situation unique to me. In Journeys Out of the Body, Robert Monroe, often regarded as the modern authority on astral projection, describes a similar loss of control. For your benefit, I include a passage from his book below.

-“Beyond this point, I believe you cannot turn back… once you have been ‘opened’ to this other reality, you cannot completely shut it out again ; try as you might. As you start to sleep or awaken, when you merely relax, the vibrational surge may come without call. You can try to shut it off, but eventually you get too tired to keep resisting and you’re off on another excursion.” (Journeys out of the body. Chapter 16).

Although I do not fully agree with Robert Monroe on every aspect of this subject, on this particular point our perspectives align. This is not intended to discourage or encourage the reader but rather to emphasize the importance of informed consent: one should understand the implications of the practice before undertaking it, as there is likely no turning back once it begins. It may become an integral part of one’s life.

Monroe explains, consistent with my own experience, that once an individual engages in astral projection, involuntary episodes during sleep often follow. He describes the process as akin to muscle memory; once the body learns how to project, it rarely ceases. He further notes that the veil between physical reality and the astral becomes progressively thinner. While his outlook on these developments is generally more positive than my own, we are in agreement on this central point. This is not to suggest that I see no benefits in the practice; I do, and these will be addressed later. However, I have not made it my mission to promote or persuade others regarding this matter. I hold that, in nature and in life, there is a time for everything, and the usefulness of this practice corresponds to the readiness of the individual to undertake its burdens. It is not my intention to "awaken the world" to this phenomenon. My aim is simply to inform and equip those who wish to pursue it with the knowledge and tools I consider of importance.

With this context established, we may now turn to the subject of entities.

Dweller on the Threshold (also called the Guardian on the Threshold)

The “Dweller on the Threshold” is widely reported as the first entity encountered during initial attempts at astral projection. It is typically described as a dark, shadow-like figure resembling the Grim Reaper, often perceived as darker than night itself. Accounts differ on its nature. Some interpret it as a manifestation of the subconscious or a psychological self-defense mechanism that prevents premature exploration; others regard it as an independent entity acting as a gatekeeper. Whatever its origin, it is commonly perceived as a test of readiness rather than an intrinsically malevolent presence.

Although not believed to be lethal, the Dweller may provoke fear and cause sensations of physical discomfort. It is frequently reported during episodes of sleep paralysis and may adopt forms designed to elicit fear. Overcoming the Dweller is generally understood as a matter of emotional control. Suppressing fear and maintaining composure enables progression, whereas resistance or aggression tends to end the projection. Attempts to harm the entity appear ineffective, as I have tried many times, and this is one of the only entities that appears to be immune to it.

A quick note before moving forward

What other entities will you encounter in the astral? Over the several months since this post was originally written, I have seriously struggled with this section, and have been cautious not to turn it in to a grimoire, or a catalog of entities for the purpose of spectacle. I also hold a degree of concern that my words may influence the reader's own experiences, while also understanding that it may be of great benefit to enter the space with some level of knowledge. So with that said, continue reading a your own discretion.

When it comes to the subject of entities, there are just so many, that it would be impossible to catalog them one by one here without writing an actual book, which is something I have no intention or desire to do. Some of these seem to hold different levels of power, position, purpose, temperament, and names. Again, since this document is not intended to be a grimoire, I will not list names, nor be overly specific about any one entity in particular. I will, instead, place them in broad categories. Hopefully this helps the reader have a general idea of what is out there, without being overly specific, or disrespecting any of these beings. Yes, I hold a serious degree of concern when it comes to disrespecting the divine in any way, and am trying my best to inform, while also keeping that spirit of respect intact. Some of these I have personal relationships with, and it would be unwise to harm or disrespect said relationship. With that said, here is an extremely broad and generic list of categories of entities I am familiar with.

Shadow Figures

The term “shadow figures” is a broad and somewhat reductive category encompassing a variety of entities reported during astral projection. Experiences with these figures range widely: some appear to engage in disruptive or unsettling behavior seemingly for their own amusement, some ignore the practitioner entirely, some appear recognizably human, and others present as mentally unwell or trapped in repetitive loops. At best they are neutral; I have never personally encountered one that could be described as benevolent.

My own speculation is that such figures represent "low-frequency" entities whose purpose, if any, remains unclear. They may simply exist without a specific function. Because of the term’s generality, “shadow figure” may refer to a variety of distinct phenomena rather than a single class of being. Shadow figures, like other entities encountered in the astral, may at times display aggression; however, they are usually of limited potency. My own response has often been to disregard them entirely. Defensive measures relevant to these encounters will be outlined in the self-defense section.

Human or Humanoid Entities

Human or humanoid entities encountered in the astral are typically perceived as fully sentient and often display greater intelligence or self-awareness than other classes of beings. In my experience, some of these entities are deceased individuals, while others are living humans projecting, and still others may simply adopt a human appearance without actually being human. Their behavior varies widely; some are benevolent, others indifferent, and some are not.

Shape-Shifters

In the astral environment, nearly all entities, including the practitioner, appear capable of shapeshifting. Such beings may assume the appearance of deceased relatives, offer pleasure, or propose bargains or deals. Their true nature is unknown and may encompass countless possibilities. The reasons for their shapeshifting are likewise uncertain and need not be inherently malevolent; it may be employed to invoke fear as a means of self-protection, or conversely, a benevolent entity may adopt a less imposing form to avoid overwhelming or frightening the traveler. Shape-shifting could be described more as an ability, rather than a category of entity. How ever, I feel a need to inform the reader of this, because not everything truly is what it appears to be.

Vampires

The term “vampire” in the astral context refers to a broad category of entities that may appear either as shadow figures or in more attractive, alluring forms. In my own experience, they frequently present as black and oily, almost as though covered in or composed of petroleum, which leads me to suspect that this may be their true appearance or aspect. These beings are often perceived as intelligent and are typically associated with attempts to drain or steal energy from the practitioner. The specific reasons for such behavior are unknown to me. I have a general idea and theories of why this may be the case, but I'll spare the reader of my theories as much as possible.

Practitioners should be aware of the possibility of such encounters. Methods of responding to and defending against these entities are essentially the same as those used for other encounters and will be addressed in the self-defense section.

Doppelgänger / Mimic

The entity often referred to as a doppelgänger or mimic is among the most vicious and violent beings I have ever come across. It appears identical to the practitioner and, in my experience, seems intent on immediate harm. I have personally encountered this type of entity only once, during my younger years, yet the descriptions provided by other projectors, occultists, and shamans are strikingly similar.

Some speculate that it represents a repressed or unintegrated aspect of the self, but this remains conjecture. What is evident is that it cannot be reasoned with; it does not speak and appears driven to injure, dominate, or perhaps even replace the practitioner.

There seems to be no reliable method of avoiding or peacefully engaging with this entity. In my own case, I was forced to destroy it. I have written an entire post just about this specific encounter, if the reader is looking for more information.

Shamanic, Planetary or Cosmic intelligences, and Elder Entities

This term refers to a broad category of extraordinary and often fantastical beings encountered in the astral environment. They seem to live in different locations, levels, or spheres. These entities are typically perceived as extremely powerful, sometimes so powerful, that it becomes difficult even to remain upright in their presence. A guiding entity I have encountered on several occasions, for example, manifests as a large bipedal bear. Its arrival is heralded by a sense of downward pressure so intense that I instinctively fall to my knees until it adjusts to my “frequency” or level, allowing me to remain near it for a period of time.

This category aims to encompass a wide range of intelligences that can only be described as God-like. I would not consider these beings "entities" in the traditional sense, as that would undermine their true nature. There are many of them, they present differently, have different names, seem to occupy different roles, have different temperament, posses specific knowledge and are incredibly powerful.

I have generally had mostly positive experiences with these beings, but this requires a huge caveat. It's difficult to express this without coming off extremely arrogant, but I will say it anyway for the protection of the reader. I practice a specific hermetic system, and have been practicing it for quite some time. I don't know that the reader's experience with said beings will be as positive as mine, because I am engaging with them using a specific framework and set of understandings. This is not to place my self above the reader in any way, but it is to say that - I don't know if the reader would have the same experience as me, because of the difference in background.

What I will say about these beings is that they can be great teachers, and possess specific knowledge that could be of great use to the practitioner. I am extremely wary of discussing them further, or getting in to specifics, for many reasons. So I will just say this - In my experience, such beings are profoundly powerful and should be approached with great respect. They resemble figures one might expect from myth or sacred literature and are not to be treated casually.

Spirit Guides

I’d rather not discuss these. I have extremely mixed feelings.

Guardian Angels

I do not personally believe in angels, but my position is not based on religious rejection. Rather, it is grounded in the fact that I have never encountered one. I do not adopt belief in things I have not personally observed, and until such an experience occurs, I remain unconvinced. This is not intended to dismiss or disrespect the beliefs of others; individuals are free to hold their own views, and I acknowledge that the existence of angels is possible. I simply have no evidence of it in my own practice.

In my most horrifying moments, when attacked, afraid, or surrounded by darkness, I have prayed and called upon guides or angels for assistance. Not once has anything responded. In every case, the outcome has depended entirely on my own efforts. Whether this absence reflects something about my own worthiness, or simply the nature of the phenomenon, I cannot say. I have certainly met incredible entities, but nothing resembling a traditional biblical angel.

Demons

Yet another category of entity I would rather not discuss. All I will say is - I have encountered both extremely powerful benevolent or neutral entities, and also negative ones. Weather we want to call them "demons" specifically, is up to the reader. I tend to refer to these as "negative entities" instead, because the term "demon" is loaded and holds religious baggage.

What I will say is that the term "demon" has been specifically presented to me in the astral before, and so was the offer of a pact or deal. Generally speaking I would highly advise the reader to stay away from making any kind of deal or exchange in the astral. Never accept gifts, bargains or deals. It is not my goal to moralize or impose on the reader, but I can’t, in good conscience, not mention this. I would avoid becoming aggressive toward these, unless it becomes impossible. It is always best to politely excuse yourself, and move on.

Nature Spirits and Elementals

This is a broad category of entities that are clearly nonhuman but some times may appear in humanoid form. These are beings that represent the elements, and are neutral in nature. They represent primal forces, often times are chaotic, other times enchanting. There's not much to say here, other than the reader should approach them with respect and care. They are, generally, impartial beings that hold, what appears to be, specific functions or purpose.

I have personally interacted with a group of beings I would describe as Sylph, Fae, or Nature Spirits, and with one in particular I developed a close and personal relationship. Out of respect for the privacy of that relationship, and because I do not know what would be appropriate to share, I will not discuss it in detail here. My experiences with this specific group were positive, but I cannot speak to whether all such entities are benevolent.

Aliens or Extraterrestrial

I have absolutely no experience with these, nor have I ever seen one. Many projectors speak of encounters with them, such as the famous Reptilians, Mantis, Nordics, Greys, and so on. I have no comment, simply because I have never met one. So until then, I remain unconvinced. I'm not calling other people's experience in to question, and I'm not interested in arguing about it. I'm just saying I haven't seen it.

Self defense

Over time my astral projection experiences have become progressively more positive. I cannot identify a single cause for this shift, but I believe it reflects a combination of factors, including a conscious effort to be less needlessly confrontational. In the past I reacted with anger when disturbed, startled, or forcibly drawn out of my body—a situation that occurred frequently. Violence became my default response once I discovered its effectiveness.

Although I do not fully understand why physically harming an entity in the astral environment works, years of experience and research have led me to a plausible explanation. We seem to possess an inherent energy, often referred to as “Chi,” that arises from our continued link to a physical body. This energy appears to allow the practitioner to inflict physical pain within the astral, making it a highly effective means of defense.

Different individuals employ different methods for managing negative entities: calling on guides, prayer, visualizing shields of light, and so on. These methods may work for some, but they have not worked for me. Physical confrontation has consistently proven effective against most hostile entities I have encountered. With practice, a practitioner may even materialize weapons or tools, which, however implausible it may sound, also prove effective. Whether entities can truly be “killed” in the astral is unknown. In my experience, entities I have harmed or “destroyed” do not reappear, but I suspect they simply cease to exist in their present form rather than dying in an absolute sense—much as a sandcastle ceases to exist when destroyed but reintegrates with the surrounding sand.

For some, it seems guides or angels may provide protection, rendering such measures unnecessary. For me, however, self-defense has been essential; no outside force has ever intervened on my behalf. Still, I have learned that violence should be a last resort. When it becomes a habitual mode of interaction, it appears to drive away not only hostile entities but also potentially benevolent ones. Some beings may look unsettling simply because they are nonhuman and unfamiliar, not because they are malevolent. Approaching them with empathy, patience, and restraint often leads to more positive outcomes.

My own history underscores this point. I invited these experiences when I was young, curious, and grieving, and for many years I resented the results. Consequently, any entity that disturbed me would be met with aggression. In recent years I have often adopted a gentler approach and have found that benevolent, often nature-oriented entities now interact with me more frequently. These beings are genuinely gentle and exhibit a sweetness and wonder that is difficult to put into words. So much so, that I must give the reader a warning:

Do Not Overstay

One important caution I wish to share concerns the duration of time spent within certain astral environments. I recently spent what subjectively felt like three days in a place to which I had been invited, and spent a lot of time with a particular entity. This group, or lineage, of Fae-like or nature spirits introduced me to one of their own, who expressed a desire to get to know me and spend time together. I do not know why such interest was shown. The leading or matriarchal figure of the group resembled a totemic or shamanic entity and granted me permission to interact with the being under its protection. Over time, I developed a close relationship with this entity.

Although I was never expelled, I left reluctantly out of concern for how much time was passing. This was not three physical days of sleep, but within the projection itself I would sleep and wake to find myself still there—a possibility I had not previously experienced. Upon returning, I felt disoriented and emotionally altered for weeks. I normally do not experience depression or nihilism, yet during that period I felt both.

This was not the result of energy drain or harm; the entity was gentle, enchanting, and inhumanly beautiful. Rather, the shift came from my own growing preference for that environment over the physical world. I found myself thinking of the entity constantly and struggling to focus on my daily life. For this reason I advise caution: do not overstay. Extended immersion may lead to a sense of alienation from the physical world and difficulty reintegrating afterward.

Shadow Work

What is commonly referred to as “shadow work” is, in my view, one of the most powerful self-defense practices a person can cultivate. Shadow work involves directly confronting one’s deepest fears, desires, shames, and uncomfortable truths—especially the aspects of oneself one most dislikes. By identifying and confronting these elements, they can be overcome or brought under conscious control.

The fears that weigh most heavily on you should be approached deliberately. Of these, the fear of death is the most crucial to overcome. Once death is accepted, little else retains the power to instill fear, and as a result most, if not all, fear dissipates. When such vulnerabilities are understood and integrated, they lose their hold and can no longer be used against you.

I consider this work essential even before attempting astral projection. I have written an entire post devoted to this topic, which explains its methods and function in greater detail. It is the second post pinned to my profile, and I strongly recommend that anyone considering this practice read that document first.

More advanced techniques (use with caution):

Binding Procedures (Black Rope)

Binding procedures are techniques intended to restrict or immobilize an entity. They may be useful in select circumstances, though their use is rarely necessary. As previously noted, most entities will cower if physically confronted; binding is an escalation reserved for cases where immediate restriction is required. Be aware that binding is typically perceived as an act of aggression, even when the intent is merely containment. Only employ these methods when you are resolute and have a clear purpose.

Effectiveness depends on clarity and authority of intention. Doubt, fear, or hesitation will commonly cause a binding to fail. Choose a calm, firm state of mind before initiating any technique.

Step 1 — Form the bind.

Visualize a black rope, chain, or cord forming in your hand or emerging from your energy center. Black is often used for absorption, neutralization, and restriction. Alternatively, extend your hands toward the entity, and imagine a cord manifesting around the target, which is what I do. Position the hand toward the entity to give the action direction and intention.

Step 2 — Secure the knot.

Encircle the entity with the imagined rope, ensuring the visualization is tight and precise. Keep one hand steady to maintain the bind, and use the other hand to grip the rope and pull back forcefully, as if tying a knot. At the moment the knot is completed, state your intention out loud or mentally. A single, firm word such as “bind” is sufficient; the precise wording matters less than the clarity and authority behind it.

Step 3 — Banish.

Decide on the destination for the bound entity. Some practitioners send entities to a place of light; I will usually direct them into a void. With the free hand, gesture toward the intended exit and visualize an opening behind the entity. Push the entity through that opening into the chosen destination, again by gesturing forward with the free hand. Some traditions recommend invoking a divine name or authority at this stage; I personally do not follow that practice. Instead, I visualize a bottomless void and move the entity into it with deliberate, forceful intention.

Step 4 — Seal.

Once the entity has been banished, apply a seal to the exit point. Different systems use different symbols; use whatever symbol aligns with your practice. I typically visualize an upright pentagram, as per my background in hermetic traditions. See the chosen symbol as bright and vibrant, imprinting it into place like a stamp or lock. Focus your will on the symbol until it feels fixed.

Step 5 — Close with a command.

Conclude the procedure with a final command to reinforce your intent. Phrase this as you prefer; a concise declaration such as “By my will, it is done” is effective. End in a composed state, and withdraw your attention deliberately.

Subtle Body Shell / Armor

This technique is particularly useful for individuals experiencing involuntary projections, sleep paralysis, vivid night terrors, or more disturbing experiences such as feeling forcibly removed from the body or energetically harmed, maybe even abused. The objective is to create an energetic or astral “armor” for the subtle body, serving as a protective shell that keeps unwanted influences at a distance.

Before sleep, I recite a personal mantra designed to establish authority over my own space. The precise wording is not important; effectiveness depends on intention and the firmness of one’s resolve rather than prayer or supplication. It must be spoken—or declared internally—without fear or affection but with calm authority, as an order. What I say:

-"I am the master of body, mind and spirit. Within this space, I reign sovereign. Without consent, nothing shall enter my domain. For here I remain supreme. I am the master of body, mind and spirit. Here I stand absolute."

This can be repeated as needed. When stated from a place of genuine authority, it often produces a tangible physical sensation, such as hair standing on end or a subtle electric feeling. After reciting it, I mentally guide this energy so that it surrounds my body like armor or a protective shell. In my experience, this practice promotes deep, undisturbed sleep. Some even report not being able to dream at all the evening it is performed.

Sentinel

The “sentinel” technique involves creating a watcher or guardian entity intended to protect either the practitioner or another individual. In my experience this practice can be remarkably effective. On one occasion I employed it to assist a friend who was contending with a persistent negative entity. Without informing them of what I had done, I later asked about their sleep; they reported that the disturbances had ceased and that they were resting much better. Although this technique can be powerful, it is not permanent and requires ongoing maintenance. It also demands a degree of experience with energy work. This method is primarily intended to safeguard one’s place of rest.

The process may be performed either in the physical setting or during astral projection. It begins with deep meditation. Visualize the sentinel in a clear and detailed form. While its appearance can be chosen freely, I personally favor animal forms, particularly dogs, which I associate with guardianship. Envision where the sentinel will stand guard, and then attempt to “see through its eyes,” imagining the scene from the servitor’s perspective as though you were the third party.

From this vantage point, issue the command. Use deliberate gestures with one hand—up, down, front, back, left, right—this is to instruct it to protect from all directions, and is called "programming the form". Verbal commands may also be used, but in my experience physical gestures and puppeteering are more effective. Once the instructions are given, envision the sentinel assuming its assigned task and standing guard over the designated space.

Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram (LBRP)

The Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram (LBRP) is a widely known ceremonial practice used to clear, protect, and “lock” the surrounding space. Because it is so well documented, I will not provide instructions here; detailed explanations are readily available in books and online sources. This ritual is particularly useful when astral projection is not possible but the practitioner wishes to remove or neutralize an unwanted presence, perhaps even prior to engaging with the practice altogether, or after doing so, to clear said space.

Energy Weapons

Energy weapons constitute my primary method of self-defense in the astral environment and are effective in the vast majority of situations I encounter. This practice involves envisioning and materializing an object—typically one you are already familiar with and own—in order to make it easier for the mind to “accept” its presence and function. The same principle explains why I struggled for years with flying; my mind initially could not accept that such an action was possible.

Because raw physical force is already so effective, I initially hesitated to share techniques beyond basic weaponization. Part of me questions how a few readers might use some of this knowledge. However, withholding it would be equally problematic, given that these methods can provide crucial protection if needed. In practice, I find myself repeatedly sharing these techniques in comments and discussions, and thus I have included them here for completeness.

Energy Shield

The energy shield is a widely known technique for protection in the astral environment. It involves envisioning a protective bubble or sphere of light surrounding the practitioner to ward off unwanted influences. Although this method is well established, I personally find it to be of limited effectiveness. In my experience, techniques that rely primarily on reaction rather than proactive action tend not to work well for me. Nevertheless, this approach may be beneficial for others, and readers should feel free to experiment with it. Effectiveness appears to vary from individual to individual, and some practitioners report positive results.

On the Scope and Reliability of These Techniques

The methods described in this document do not represent the totality of what is possible. Countless other techniques, traditions, and approaches exist. Nevertheless, what I have presented here constitutes a robust and sufficient arsenal for most situations a practitioner is likely to encounter.

I am not the originator of these techniques. They have been developed and used by others long before me. I share them only as a student who has adopted, tested, and refined them through years of direct experience. Every method included here is one I have personally used and continue to use. For that reason, I can speak to their reliability within the limits of my own practice, but I make no claim to be their pioneer or sole authority.

The Necessity of Confrontation

With sustained practice, it is highly likely that one will eventually encounter negative or hostile phenomena in the astral environment. Most experienced projectors acknowledge this privately but often avoid discussing it publicly. Those who adopt a “love and light” approach generally refrain from addressing negative encounters out of concern that suggestion might influence a newcomer’s subconscious perceptions.

I take a different view. In my opinion, people deserve an accurate understanding of the potential risks before engaging in a practice that may affect them profoundly or even permanently, as it did in my own case. While I accept that the subconscious plays a significant role in shaping what one sees or attracts, I do not believe it exercises absolute sovereignty. Negative phenomena appear to exist independently of the practitioner’s mindset, much as adversity exists in ordinary life. As Above, So Below.

When confronted with something genuinely harmful, the answer never is to cower. One should actively confront and overcome fears rather than allow them to become vulnerabilities. This does not mean responding with indiscriminate hostility, as many beings are simply unfamiliar, not malevolent. How ever, it does mean recognizing that some entities are truly negative and may attempt to inflict harm. Avoidance keeps a person soft and weak; confrontation and resolution build strength and resilience, both for oneself and for those one supports. I contend that one should deliberately confront sources of personal weakness, intentionally engaging and conquering one’s greatest fears until they no longer hold power.

Positives of the Practice

Unfortunately the document had to be trimmed, because of Reddit's character limit on posts. I don't think sharing the "positives" is relevant to the document, as this would be subjective. All I will say is - Regardless of the positives or negatives, I’d prefer to know what’s out there rather than remain ignorant.

Distinguishing Astral Projection from Dreams

People often ask how to tell whether an experience was an astral projection or simply a dream. In my view, the distinction is as self-evident as knowing what you did yesterday versus what you are doing now. If you genuinely cannot tell the difference between reality and dreaming, that may be a clinical matter beyond my expertise.

For me, the difference is unmistakable. When I am awake, dreaming, or projecting, each state carries its own distinct quality, and I believe most people can recognize this for themselves. My personal guideline is that if there is even a shadow of doubt about an experience, it was probably a dream.

I do not intend to be dismissive with this answer. Over the years it has been deeply frustrating to share my experiences with others and be told they were “just dreams.” In my opinion there is a clear and significant difference between dreams and astral projection, and, with practice, that difference becomes obvious.

Are All Negative Experiences “Fear Tests”?

In my opinion, no. Not every negative experience in the astral is a test of fear. Sometimes adverse events occur without serving a higher purpose—just as in ordinary life, where unfortunate things can happen to good people.

I believe it is misleading to impose a positive framework on every encounter through a kind of mental gymnastics that insists all experiences are lessons, tests, or blessings in disguise. While such a perspective may be comforting, it risks becoming delusional. The reality is that not all is love and light; some experiences are simply negative.

It is comforting to think that nothing harmful exists, that every hardship is designed to help us grow, and that all suffering hides a greater purpose. Such beliefs can feel like a warm blanket. Yet the truth is often more difficult—uncomfortable, unsettling, and unpleasant. Most adults understand this principle in ordinary life, and in my view, the same applies in the astral: as above, so below.

Final Advice

My final advice is to treat no one’s word as gospel, including my own. My experiences and interpretations may not reflect your own. This field attracts many individuals who believe they know everything and present themselves as authorities, also individuals seeking to enrich themselves; arrogance is common in these communities. Do not take any single person’s statements as law. Instead, consult multiple sources, listen to diverse perspectives, and gather knowledge from as many places as possible.

If you believe I missed something, rest assured that I certainly did. The document has reached the maximum permitted character limit. For this reason, the document misses a lot of detail I wish I could add.

reddit.com
u/lagunitarogue — 13 days ago

Will changing my handle mess with algorithm or affect channel negatively?

If so, how? I'm not huge, but I have a monetized channel and I'm concerned my @ or handle will get me sued because it uses the name of card of TCG. I'm worried that if I change the handle though it will confuse the algo in some way, or make youtube think it's a new channel and lower impressions/be cautions about it, or something else.

I'm not famous enough to where people find/look for me by my handle, they remember the channel's name, if anything, and that's staying the same. The channel's name is safe, because it's just the first name of the character, but the handle is like the whole thing and that I might need to change. Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks.

reddit.com
u/lagunitarogue — 2 months ago

I am now convinced that there is a place or zone where people are just working normal jobs and living life as usual.

This is, in a way, a continuation of a couple of previous posts, where I have been investigating a specific place for a while now, and I keep getting kicked out when asking for information.

So today, I visited this place once again, and I have come to a few conclusions.

So first off, for context: I have now visited a particular location several times. This is not a specific place; it's a zone, or plane, or space. I have been told twice now, by its own inhabitants, that this place is called "the never". I'm going to link the 2 posts from when I was last there, just in case the reader wants extra context. It's not a continuation per se, it's just that I'm revisiting and studying the same place for a while now:

Has anyone ever heard of or been to a place called “the never”?

https://www.reddit.com/r/AstralProjection/comments/1uzchqs/has_anyone_ever_heard_of_or_been_to_a_place/

Just got back from visiting a huge educational institution and got to ask one of the employees some questions, including the name of the place.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AstralProjection/comments/1vlwers/just_got_back_from_visiting_a_huge_educational/

So these are my 2 most recent documented visits to the same location, and the interactions that took place.

I had no intention of astral projecting today, I went to bed late and just wanted a normal night of sleep. However, my dog ended up waking me up barking after only 5 hours of sleep or so, and I decided to just use the WBTB method instead of going back to sleep.

When exiting the body, I ended up in a pitch-black, dark void-type space. I've heard people talk about this many times, but honestly, it's not something I had experienced before. Normally, I exit the body, and I'm in my room, or somewhere else.

Within this space, I could not actually see my astral body; it was just too dark. There was, however, an intuitive knowledge that from this space I could decide where to go. I don't know where said intuition came from, it's not like someone spoke to me or I heard a voice, I just knew.

There was a place I visited yesterday, a school, and within said school there was a library. Yesterday when I was there, an entity, or an inhabitant, really did a number on me. So part of me wanted to go find him.

I said to the void:

- Take me to the library.

I started feeling a very strong magnetism, coming from multiple directions. My body felt like a ragdoll getting tossed around inside of a tornado. For some reason, all of this felt familiar. I wasn't scared, I wasn't concerned, there was just some sort of intuitive knowing of exactly what was happening. I don't have that intuitive knowledge of this space in the physical, if that were to happen now, I'd be screaming. However, in that moment, I was very familiar with what was taking place.

I end up in the sky, above a city. I fly down to what appears to be a sort of park, and eventually I see people walking toward a building. I decide to go down there. I had almost no weight, as you would expect, and flight was very easy to conduct. I don't know how much detail we really want here, but if we want to be very specific about everything that took place, I did not initially like how slow I was flying. Increasing the speed was fairly easy, and was as simple as kicking back for motion. I don't want to bore the reader with every small mechanical detail of the experience, but feel free to ask in the comments if you want, otherwise the post will be massive.

I end up in front of an office building, of all places. It looked very modern, just like you would imagine. I noticed a couple of people walking in; they said "good morning" to me. Normally I would start pressing them and asking questions, but this time I decided to just play along, because every time I start asking questions, I get booted out or the inhabitants freak out.

We enter the office, and there was a group of 3 people starting their workday. 2 women and 1 man. Not sure how detailed we want to get, but the 2 women were white, one a brunette and the other blond, and the guy was black. They looked to be anywhere from their mid-30s to maybe early 40s, if that.

I noticed the guy was carrying a box, and the box had a label. It had an address on it, and it stated that the box came from Kenya. I don't recall the address, unfortunately, which is odd because I paid very close attention to it and wanted to look it up later.

They made casual conversation with each other, literally talking about the weather. I just stood there, watching these people talk about the weather, and thought to myself - You gotta be fucking shitting me with this conversation. Why are we talking about the weather...?

I was slowly building up to a freakout, getting very annoyed. Yes, maybe I'm a hothead, maybe I'm not an enlightened guru that knows everything, and maybe I don't have the patience of a saint. However, please appreciate the fact that I've been trying to conduct a study in this place for months now, and no one will explain anything to me. It's not like this is a fun location to visit, I'm not doing this for the hell of it, I genuinely want to understand what is actually happening here, so I can get some existential questions answered. At this point I have lost a lot of the sense of wonder when it comes to astral projection, I just want answers. I've been doing this for a long time, and there are a few very specific questions I want answered. It's not about the ride anymore, at least not for me, it's about figuring out the ins and outs of how things actually work. I'm frankly over the ride. So forgive my lack of patience, or if I come off like an asshole, or if my internal monologue is crude.

I play along for a while more, and then I notice they sit at their desks. How much do we want to know about the office? They each had a cubicle, the office was directly at the first level, there were large windows, a small plant in a vase, and it looked almost like a rented office inside of a building, fairly small.

I watch these people, and they are just typing... I look over the blond lady's shoulder, and she's responding to an email. These people are working. As in, working an office job, in the astral.

I accidentally say out loud: -"What in the actual fuck are we doing here...?"

Blond lady says: -"I'm sorry?"

- Lady, what are you doing right now?

She looks at me, perplexed, like she doesn't understand the question. So I say:

- Ok, so what now? Do I just sit at a desk and start typing too? Is this what we do here?

She looks confused.

I walk up to the man, and I ask him:

- Sir, why are we working a day job in the astral?

- Gotta make a living somehow :) (he smiled in a way that really annoyed me).

- My guy, I just flew from out of the sky. I blasted my way down here. Do you realize that this is not normal?

He looks confused.

- I'm not from here. What you're doing now is what we do where I'm from; why are we slaving away at a day job even in the astral? What is this shit?

Everyone gets up and looks at me very seriously, just like the guy in the library did yesterday.

- Ok fuck this, we're not doing this again. I'm not getting screamed at, I'm leaving. (Yesterday a guy freaked out on me because I ended up letting him know I wasn't from there).

I genuinely feel like this place is North Korea or something. You can't question anything, no one can know what you really think, the government is always watching.

Obviously there's no government there watching, but there's clearly something watching and taking note. If you read my other linked posts, you will understand what I mean. Once you ask too many questions, or give away that you're not from there, you get kicked out. That's what I mean.

I'm just thinking to myself - Imagine dying and the next thing waiting for you is another fucking office job.

As I'm thinking that, I am forcefully returned to the black void. I just get sucked back into it.

I say to it again: Take me to the library.

Again, I don't end up in the library. I now end up in a hotel.

I walk into the hotel, and some guy at the front desk welcomes me in:

- Sir, why are you working at a front desk?

- Huh?

- Ok, never mind.

Does no one here realize what's happening? Are we having a consensual experience where we are literally opting to work day jobs? Are these people dead? All questions I'd like answered, but no one there can give me a proper answer. It's like you're either with the program, or you need to get out.

I walk into a room that seems to be having a conference. Probably like 50 people dressed in suits and work attire. Men and women, all adults.

Once I walk in, everyone stares at me. Like everything stops, and we're all staring at me silently now.

- What?! I'm not allowed to be here too?

No one responds, they are all just staring at me, like they know I'm not supposed to be there or something.

So then I ask the dreaded forbidden question, the one that always gets me kicked out.

- What is this place? Where am I?

As soon as I ask that, time freezes, and a man appears in the crowd that wasn't there before. He looks like an angel or something, I don't know, he glows. He doesn't have wings; he has a pretty ridiculous haircut, brown hair, is white and male, wears normal clothes, but glows. He's just smiling at me.

Not an evil smile, more like he's finding the entire ordeal funny. He's not laughing, but he might as well be.

- Cool, super funny. Are you my spirit guide or something? Because I've been calling on you for years, asking questions for years, and I haven't gotten a single one answered yet. Do these people know they're stuck here? Do they know what's going on? Can you please explain this to me?

It's hard to describe what happens next, but it's like I get a download of information. There's no voice in my head, he doesn't speak to me, I don't get images or anything like that. I just intuitively know, in the experience, that those people don't know. They are just living their life, and that's what their life looks like.

The man turns into stone, and everyone else stays frozen.

- Ok guy, what now? What's the lesson?

I am returned to the void.

Once again I say - take me to the library.

I end up in a street, people are walking and going about their day. Looks like a big city. For the first time ever, I actually felt burned out. I sat there, and didn't feel like exploring anymore. Whatever this place is, I don't know that I want to return.

Another experience came to mind in that moment, one where I visited a mall and spoke to one of the inhabitants. This was several months ago, and I think it's the same or a similar place. The gist of my conversation with said inhabitant was:

- I know this isn't a dream, we can stop acting now.

- Oh I know that you know, but they don't.

Proceeds to point to people wandering the mall shopping.

that experience: https://www.reddit.com/r/AstralProjection/comments/1r77yvt/mall_world_really_strange_experience/

Is that what this level or place is? Is it just people dreaming, or in some sort of daze? Are they dead? I don't know.

I think 1 of 5 things could be happening, and there might be more, but this is what my intuition tells me. Again, no one told me this, nor is it a download, it's just an assumption now.

1 - I think that when we die, it must be traumatic, and some people need time to adjust. So a mundane and familiar environment gets created as a form of rehab. They go about their day, work a shitty day job, and do normal stuff until they can come to terms with the fact that they're dead, or adjust to frequency changes, perhaps the new body, I don't know for a fact. By me being there, I'm essentially invading a rehab space, and I'm disturbing people that are trying to heal. I might also be providing them with a memory, or information, that is being intentionally suspended or something.

2 - These people are prisoners of some sort. They are in some sort of daze, and I'm not allowed to discuss it with them. It's like there's a roleplay happening, and I'm not allowed to break the 4th wall.

3 - That's a form of afterlife, like a plane. It might not be a prison or a healing space, it might just be the next level from ours.

4 - These people are dreaming. What I have noticed, after years of studying dreams and developing a very strong dream recall, is - We often get placed in liminal-type spaces, doing very mundane tasks, for the purposes of resting the mind during sleep. They keep you engaged enough to enter a sort of “flow state”, but are also mundane and low stress enough to promote recovery.

5 - A parallel reality or world to ours, similar to what Monroe described as the "negative world" or whatever he called it.

I'm really sorry I don't have all the concrete answers, I wish I did. I wish someone would tell me something and actually sit me down and explain, but for some reason, that's not how it goes in my experience.

I know a lot of people who do this seem to believe they have the answers to everything, but I don't. I can also make up theories, tell you what I have read in books, or assume things like what I shared here based on what I see, but the truth is that I just don't know everything. I'm also trying to figure these things out, and I don't like playing all-knowing internet guru. Unless I know something for a fact, have tested it, and observed it to be true multiple times, I'm going to continue saying that I just don't know. This is what I have observed, multiple times now, and you can come to your own conclusions based on the information provided. I'm not trying to make up anyone's mind about what is the case or not, just to share some of what I have seen firsthand.

I very much enjoyed Monroe's first book, because it felt not only genuine, but also similar to some of the things I've experienced in a certain way, but primarily what I enjoyed is that he didn't act like he had all the answers to everything. He was just a guy reporting what he was seeing. In that spirit, I'm going to refrain from imposing my views as fact, and just share the observations. 1-5 are just my theories based on multiple observations of this place, a lot of tests, questions, and exploring. I don't know any of it to truly be the case for a fact. I could very well be wrong about all of it, and if spirit guides are truly real, they have very much been leaving me to my own devices for a long time.

Monroe discusses, in his first or second book, that he always felt guided by something every step of the way. I don't. I don't feel that, like at all. At least not during astral projection.

What I really feel is that I'm accessing places at random, and learning things as I go, on my own, based on observation and experiment. No one has ever taught me anything, sat me down, and given me all the answers in the astral. I got some today, but hopefully the reader can appreciate what I mean by it always being cryptic and/or not entirely clear, which has been annoying the shit out of me for quite some time. You might say that it's because I'm an asshole, or a bad person, or undeserving, and that's fine, but this has been my observation based on ongoing research. Not to be dramatic, I'm just frustrated and annoyed.

reddit.com
u/lagunitarogue — 2 months ago
▲ 15 r/occult

Astral projection log - visiting a huge educational institution and got to ask one of the employees some questions, including the name of the place.

I don't know why this experience was so eerie to me, but I'm taking the rest of the day off to just relax after this. I can still hear the voice and accent of the person I spoke with. Their screams of anger are stuck in my head, and it's the second time I have been given the same answer when asking for more details. I'm going to try to be as detailed as I can about what the place looked like and my interactions. I want to walk you through, step by step, everything I saw, as if you were there with me.

I tried astral projecting just now to a place I have visited in the past. There is a particular mall I have been to before and have written about here, so I wanted to investigate it further.

I deliberately set the intention to visit the mall, and I end up in a fire exit. The structure was a large, square, spiraling staircase. I walked down for quite some time before reaching a heavy black door. The color of the stairs was brown, and they had black metal handrails on one side only, the side facing away from the center of the structure. The center of the structure was one large rectangular pillar, meaning there's no way to fall from the stairs. It was very clearly a fire exit.

I opened the black door, which had weight to it, but was not locked. The handle was also black, made out of metal, and had a classic horizontal door handle shape.

Once I open the door, I see this square hall-type area, which is like a center that divides multiple rooms and places. There were 2 open locations, the one I will describe now, because it's the first place I went to, and then another staircase going down from that level.

I hear people singing, so I look in that direction. It sounds to me like choir music.

There's no visible door separating this room; it's just an open space. I see mostly teens and young adults singing. They are not wearing any particular type of uniform that I can tell, but are dressed in modern clothing.

I approach the room very cautiously and simply look into it. Several of the singers notice me and start staring while continuing to sing. They noticed me, but I had the feeling that they were trying not to let themselves get distracted from the activity, so they would glance in my direction and then look forward again to their instructor.

I stood there for a moment trying to listen to the song. It sounded like church or choir music, but I could not make out the words or language, which is very unfortunate and odd.

At some point I decided to just go in and ask questions. I walked in quietly and raised my hand slightly as if to say "hi."

Almost immediately, the instructor walked over to me and said I couldn't be there. She gently put her hands on me and started pushing me out of the room:

-"I'm so sorry to bother, I just wanted to ask a few questions."

-"I know, I know, but you can't be here, ok? I need you to leave."

The lady was white, shorter than me, maybe 40 or so. She had brown hair tied in a bun and circular glasses with no frame around the glass (the old-school kind). I noticed she had little earrings too, the kind that are just a small dot or whatever they are called, not a hoop.

She doesn't shove me in a mean or aggressive way, just guides me out of the room.

I decide to walk down the staircase to the other level. The staircase is black, made of metal, and spirals circularly downward. It was not long, so I maybe walked down to the level below in 5 seconds.

When I get there, I see a large library. There are multiple people there doing different things. Multiple bookshelves, a large square counter right there with someone working, couches with a small table in the center. The floor is blue carpet; the bookshelves are made of wood.

The first thing I notice is a huge man, like the tallest person I have ever seen. He is quite thin, very tall, white, appears to be anywhere from 40-50, is wearing a red sweater, with a white collared shirt under it, and jeans. He has a fairly ordinary haircut. I'm not sure how to describe it, but it's dark brown with some early signs of balding, a receding hairline, but still a full set of hair.

I approach him and say hello. He seems quite nice and has a thick accent that I would classify as probably Southern American. He was putting books away, so I assumed he worked there. I seriously regret not inspecting the books, but I did not expect my time there to get cut short, so I thought I'd speak to him first.

I asked if I could ask him a few questions. He said, "absolutely brother." We both lean on the counter at the center, and this was the conversation:

-"Alright, brother, level with me here. (to comply with this sub's filters I can't write out the question, but I asked for information about the location we were in).

-"It's a school. This the library." (I think it would be disrespectful to say exactly what he said, or how he said it, but he had a thick accent. I don't know how important this detail is, but he said "labrary.")

-"(to comply with this sub's filters I can't write out the question, but I asked for the name of the location).

-"This be Yeagerdale" (or Yeager dale? or Yagerdale? Jaegerdale?).

-"Yeagerdale?"

-"Yuuup."

-"(to comply with this sub's filters I can't write out the question, but I asked for the date)." (I asked that because I wanted to know if this place was perhaps tied to time in any way, maybe even a memory of a place, I don't know, but I asked for the date.)

I don't know why, but this really pissed him off. He went from being a real sweet dude to sounding like a demon.

As soon as I asked that, his expression changed, and he looked very serious. He then says:

-"Never."

-"(to comply with this sub's filters I can't write out the question, but I asked for confirmation of what he had said)."

He suddenly vanishes, like a ghost, and I completely lose sight of him. He somehow, in the blink of an eye, phased or teleported to my left side and screamed into my left ear:

-"Never!" (If we want the more literal way he screamed it: neeeeveeeeEEEEERRR!!!!)

Meaning, he didn't just scream it. He stretched the word out, and I don't really know how to explain what happened, but there was something unusual about the way he said it that seemed to have a direct effect on me. The vibration of his voice produced a severe feeling of loss of balance and disorientation. It startled the crap out of me at first, but as the word became louder and more drawn out, the disorientation became much stronger.

It's not the first time someone has said "never" to me in the astral or called a location "the never." So now this has become extremely intriguing to me. In this other experience, an inhabitant also told me that a location was "the never." I'll share that here:

In any case, the screamed word created intense vibrations throughout my body, and the next thing I know, I'm in bed.

I am fully lucid, and my wife is next to me. When I move a bit and rub my eyes, my wife mumbles that it's hot, so she takes off one of her blankets. I go to take a blanket off of her, and I start feeling someone else's presence. I felt extremely paranoid for some reason; it's hard to describe. I think I was just anxious and disoriented from what had just happened.

I get up to go turn the air on, and when I'm halfway down the hall, I get sucked back into my body like a vacuum.

I then wake up again in bed, with my wife next to me, but she's sleeping. Same position as before. This time I'm actually back in the physical, and I felt extremely disoriented for a while. I normally don't come back feeling like this, but this time I came back kind of anxious and out of it.

I proceeded to just take a shower, and I slowly felt normal again. I'm writing this about 1h or so after the experience, and I'd say I feel normal again.

The last time I was told I was in "the never", the same thing happened. I got booted out, and the projection cut to an extremely vivid false awakening. This is not something I normally experience, so it's interesting that it has now happened twice, immediately after being given the same answer. There's a pattern here, and "the never" is clearly a space that exists, or a time in space. It's now been referenced by 2 independent entities, in 2 completely separate experiences.

(I'm sorry I could not write out my exact words, especially questions. The sub has a filter that blocks out certain phrases from being used, which doesn't allow me to accurately describe the dialogue, but I tried my best).

In any case, I'm posting this here because it's the second time "the never" comes up, and last time people here had good insight on what it could be or mean. Could I be misunderstanding "Never" for Nether"? Maybe, but it would be the second time now that I would be mishearing, so I'm pretty sure "Never" is the word that was used, not "Nether".

reddit.com
u/lagunitarogue — 2 months ago

Just got back from visiting a huge educational institution and got to ask one of the employees some questions, including the name of the place.

I don't know why this experience was so eerie to me, but I'm taking the rest of the day off to just relax after this. I can still hear the voice and accent of the person I spoke with. Their screams of anger are stuck in my head, and it's the second time I have been given the same answer when asking for more details. I'm going to try to be as detailed as I can about what the place looked like and my interactions. I want to walk you through, step by step, everything I saw, as if you were there with me.

I tried astral projecting just now to a place I have visited in the past. There is a particular mall I have been to before and have written about here, so I wanted to investigate it further.

I deliberately set the intention to visit the mall, and I end up in a fire exit. The structure was a large, square, spiraling staircase. I walked down for quite some time before reaching a heavy black door. The color of the stairs was brown, and they had black metal handrails on one side only, the side facing away from the center of the structure. The center of the structure was one large rectangular pillar, meaning there's no way to fall from the stairs. It was very clearly a fire exit.

I opened the black door, which had weight to it, but was not locked. The handle was also black, made out of metal, and had a classic horizontal door handle shape.

Once I open the door, I see this square hall-type area, which is like a center that divides multiple rooms and places. There were 2 open locations, the one I will describe now, because it's the first place I went to, and then another staircase going down from that level.

I hear people singing, so I look in that direction. It sounds to me like choir music.

There's no visible door separating this room; it's just an open space. I see mostly teens and young adults singing. They are not wearing any particular type of uniform that I can tell, but are dressed in modern clothing.

I approach the room very cautiously and simply look into it. Several of the singers notice me and start staring while continuing to sing. They noticed me, but I had the feeling that they were trying not to let themselves get distracted from the activity, so they would glance in my direction and then look forward again to their instructor.

I stood there for a moment trying to listen to the song. It sounded like church or choir music, but I could not make out the words or language, which is very unfortunate and odd.

At some point I decided to just go in and ask questions. I walked in quietly and raised my hand slightly as if to say "hi."

Almost immediately, the instructor walked over to me and said I couldn't be there. She gently put her hands on me and started pushing me out of the room:

-"I'm so sorry to bother, I just wanted to ask a few questions."

-"I know, I know, but you can't be here, ok? I need you to leave."

The lady was white, shorter than me, maybe 40 or so. She had brown hair tied in a bun and circular glasses with no frame around the glass (the old-school kind). I noticed she had little earrings too, the kind that are just a small dot or whatever they are called, not a hoop.

She doesn't shove me in a mean or aggressive way, just guides me out of the room.

I decide to walk down the staircase to the other level. The staircase is black, made of metal, and spirals circularly downward. It was not long, so I maybe walked down to the level below in 5 seconds.

When I get there, I see a large library. There are multiple people there doing different things. Multiple bookshelves, a large square counter right there with someone working, couches with a small table in the center. The floor is blue carpet; the bookshelves are made of wood.

The first thing I notice is a huge man, like the tallest person I have ever seen. He is quite thin, very tall, white, appears to be anywhere from 40-50, is wearing a red sweater, with a white collared shirt under it, and jeans. He has a fairly ordinary haircut. I'm not sure how to describe it, but it's dark brown with some early signs of balding, a receding hairline, but still a full set of hair.

I approach him and say hello. He seems quite nice and has a thick accent that I would classify as probably Southern American. He was putting books away, so I assumed he worked there. I seriously regret not inspecting the books, but I did not expect my time there to get cut short, so I thought I'd speak to him first.

I asked if I could ask him a few questions. He said, "absolutely brother." We both lean on the counter at the center, and this was the conversation:

-"Alright, brother, level with me here. What is this place?"

-"It's a school. This the library." (I think it would be disrespectful to say exactly what he said, or how he said it, but he had a thick accent. I don't know how important this detail is, but he said "labrary.")

-"Ok, what's this place called then?"

-"This be Yeagerdale" (or Yeager dale? or Yagerdale? Jaegerdale?).

-"Yeagerdale?"

-"Yuuup."

-"Ok, what year is it?" (I asked that because I wanted to know if this place was perhaps tied to time in any way, maybe even a memory of a place, I don't know, but I asked for the date.)

I don't know why, but this really pissed him off. He went from being a real sweet dude to sounding like a demon.

As soon as I asked that, his expression changed, and he looked very serious. He then says:

-"Never."

-"Never?"

He suddenly vanishes, like a ghost, and I completely lose sight of him. He somehow, in the blink of an eye, phased or teleported to my left side and screamed into my left ear:

-"Never!" (If we want the more literal way he screamed it: neeeeveeeeEEEEERRR!!!!)

Meaning, he didn't just scream it. He stretched the word out, and I don't really know how to explain what happened, but there was something unusual about the way he said it that seemed to have a direct effect on me. The vibration of his voice produced a severe feeling of loss of balance and disorientation. It startled the crap out of me at first, but as the word became louder and more drawn out, the disorientation became much stronger.

It's not the first time someone has said "never" to me in the astral or called a location "the never." So now this has become extremely intriguing to me. In this other experience, an inhabitant also told me that a location was "the never." I'll share that here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AstralProjection/comments/1uzchqs/has_anyone_ever_heard_of_or_been_to_a_place/

In any case, the screamed word created intense vibrations throughout my body, and the next thing I know, I'm in bed.

I am fully lucid, and my wife is next to me. When I move a bit and rub my eyes, my wife mumbles that it's hot, so she takes off one of her blankets. I go to take a blanket off of her, and I start feeling someone else's presence. I felt extremely paranoid for some reason; it's hard to describe. I think I was just anxious and disoriented from what had just happened.

I get up to go turn the air on, and when I'm halfway down the hall, I get sucked back into my body like a vacuum.

I then wake up again in bed, with my wife next to me, but she's sleeping. Same position as before. This time I'm actually back in the physical, and I felt extremely disoriented for a while. I normally don't come back feeling like this, but this time I came back kind of anxious and out of it.

I proceeded to just take a shower, and I slowly felt normal again. I'm writing this about 1h or so after the experience, and I'd say I feel normal again.

The last time I was told I was in "the never", the same thing happened. I got booted out, and the projection cut to an extremely vivid false awakening. This is not something I normally experience, so it's interesting that it has now happened twice, immediately after being given the same answer. There's a pattern here, and "the never" is clearly a space that exists, or a time in space. It's now been referenced by 2 independent entities, in 2 completely separate experiences.

Could I be misunderstanding "Never" for Nether"? Maybe, but it would be the second time now that I would be mishearing, so I'm pretty sure "Never" is the word that was used, not "Nether".

reddit.com
u/lagunitarogue — 2 months ago

A 13 Year Observational Study of Dream and Astral Environments: Dynamics, Mechanics, Stability, Awareness, and Inhabitants.

This post is intended as a comprehensive overview of my firsthand experience and personal research into astral projection, entities, lucid dreams, dream characters, and the mechanics and dynamics of nonphysical environments.

My focus is not primarily on conclusions, but on patterns that have emerged through repeated observation and experimentation: how these environments behave, how their inhabitants respond, which features remain consistent, and where the boundaries between states appear to lie. My intention is not to persuade the reader, but simply to document observations that have remained reasonably consistent over time.

I don't have the answers to everything, nor have I seen everything there is to see. This is a record of experience, not a declaration of objective fact, based on a little over 13 years of engagement with astral projection, lucid dreaming, and paranormal phenomena. At times my language may sound absolute, but it should still be understood as my own personal observation, not necessarily the norm.

The Dynamics and Behavior of Dream Characters, Thought Forms, and Entities

This subject began as a general fascination but, over the years, has become a persistent source of perplexity. In my experience, the dream environment is readily distinguishable from the astral environment. Regardless of whether the reader approaches the subject from a metaphysical or scientific perspective, the two states clearly exhibit different dynamics, mechanics, inhabitants, and levels of awareness.

The term “awareness” is difficult to communicate to someone who has not experienced these states directly, but I will try to explain what I mean. A person who has developed substantial familiarity with all three environments (the physical, the dream, and the astral), can usually distinguish among them without deliberate analysis. Each environment has its own identifiable qualities and characteristics, many of which I will discuss below. The most striking distinction, however, is the immediate and intuitive recognition of where one is operating when full lucidity is present.

When awake, I recognize the physical environment as physical. When lucid dreaming, I know that I am dreaming. When astral projecting, I know that I am astral projecting. This recognition does not ordinarily require a test or a process of deduction. It is simply present.

I do not know with certainty why these environments are so readily distinguishable. Their differences become even more apparent when their properties are deliberately examined, but in my experience the distinction is usually evident before any testing occurs. The principal exception appears to be the false awakening, which is itself a fascinating phenomenon.

Under ordinary circumstances, I have never seriously questioned whether waking physical reality was a dream. Within a lucid dream, I have never mistaken the dream for physical reality once lucidity was established. Likewise, during an astral projection, I have never mistaken the experience for an ordinary dream.

What I have questioned during projections is how much of the environment may be generated or mediated by the brain. I have certainly considered the possibility that this third state is brain-generated. What I have not questioned is whether it is experientially distinct from both ordinary dreaming and waking physical awareness. Whatever the reader ultimately believes the state to be is not my immediate concern here. My point is simply that it presents as a distinct and recognizable mode of experience.

Beyond that intuitive distinction, however, the subject becomes considerably more complicated.

Lucid dreaming was never a natural ability for me. It was something I developed over time, and I will later describe the methods that helped me cultivate it. Dreams are often dismissed as nonsensical or insignificant, but they possess fascinating properties of their own and contain phenomena for which I still have no definitive explanation, just theory.

On the Study of Dream Characters

Dream characters are fascinating, but in my experience they are also highly predictable. In the overwhelming majority of cases, they behave according to recognizable patterns. A small minority do not, and those exceptions are where the subject becomes especially interesting. Before discussing the exceptions, however, it is necessary to establish the general pattern.

My observation is that ordinary dream characters respond primarily to narrative momentum and emotion. They tend to mirror the dreamer’s feelings, fears, expectations, and desires. Put more simply, they tend to “egg things on.” If the dreamer becomes afraid, the characters and environment often become increasingly threatening until the dream develops into a nightmare. If the dreamer becomes sexually aroused, the characters frequently begin to reflect that sexual energy, and so on.

I am not interested in debating the ethics of experiments, only in reporting what I have observed. While lucid, I have probed, harmed, insulted, deceived, interrogated, killed, questioned, befriended, and otherwise interacted with dream characters in nearly every way I could think of to observe the result. The intention is always experimentation, not malice.

What I have consistently observed is that ordinary dream characters become puppet-like once full lucidity is established. They rarely resist, disobey, or maintain an independent personality. Their forms are malleable and unstable, and their behavior depends largely on what the dreamer expects or desires. Before lucidity is achieved, they may convincingly perform a role, but after the individual becomes lucid, that apparent independence usually collapses. No verbal command is necessary; the expectation of a particular behavior is often enough to produce it.

There is, however, a small category of dream inhabitant that does not conform to this pattern. I hesitate to call these figures ordinary dream characters because they behave more like visitors, but I also do not automatically classify them as external entities because I cannot always determine what they truly are. I have my own theories, but I will try to separate interpretation from observation.

On rare occasions, something appears within a dream that seems to possess a degree of sentience and autonomy. These figures remain resistant and apparently independent even after lucidity is established, immediately distinguishing them from surrounding dream characters. They tend to stand out, and even things such as their gaze, feels alive.

Here are a couple of recent examples I could use.

During one recent lucid dream, I was attending a family dinner with several relatives, including some who are now deceased. I left the table and made my way to the pantry, because I was craving macaroons. A box was already there, but as I held it the pastries began to shrink in my hands. This is a common property of dreams: objects often struggle to maintain a stable form under prolonged observation. I ate them anyway, and they tasted as expected. I will return later to the remarkable ability of dreams and the astral to replicate texture, flavor, and even intoxication.

When I returned to the kitchen, I noticed a young woman who seemed completely out of place. She appeared 18-20 years old, alone against a counter, startled as though she had been caught somewhere she did not expect to be seen. She resembled no one I had ever met: darker skin, Asian features, short hair, chubby cheeks, and modern black clothing. There was also something about their eyes, their gaze, felt living.

I questioned the figure, but they refused to answer or obey specific commands. Their expression suggested concern, almost as if they had been discovered somewhere they did not belong.

The following interaction was aggressive, and I understand that it may reflect poorly on me. I include it because the purpose of this account is to report the experiment honestly rather than curate a favorable image. Over the years, I have tested dream characters in nearly every conceivable way to better understand and document their behavior.

I threatened the figure and told it I would kill them if they did not explain why they were there. They refused to speak, looked away, and continued resisting my commands. I removed a knife from a drawer and pointed it at them. When they tried to leave, I grabbed their arm, dragged them back, and shoved them against the cabinets. I struck them and again demanded to know who they were and why they had appeared in a dream involving my family.

This behavior is unusual. Ordinary dream characters do not typically refuse direct commands or maintain silence and resistance once lucidity is established. They especially don't typically maintain personality or narrative once the individual is lucid.

When they still refused to answer, I attempted to drive the knife into their throat. Immediately before contact, the blade struck what felt like a glass barrier. A solid force prevented it from reaching them. The dream then began to disintegrate, and I was forcefully awakened.

Something had prevented the figure from being stabbed and ended the dream rather than allowing the interaction to continue. In my experience, nothing ordinarily intervenes to protect dream characters, as I have killed several. Yet this particular figure, whom I had already recognized as out of place, almost as though they were observing or intruding upon the dream, was protected. Why that happened, I don't know.

In other rare cases, unusual dream figures have offered advice or displayed a higher degree of insight. I would not necessarily call them “guides” in the stereotypical spiritual sense, but I have encountered at least one character who gave me accurate advice concerning astral projection, along with general personal advice.

During one particular lucid dream, after exploring the environment, I began to speak to the only dream character present in a strange liminal-type environment. This character referred to events from my waking day, explained why I was there, advised me to sleep earlier, described itself as “the part of me I never get to speak to,” and communicated with an unusual degree of intelligence. it's hard to describe it's gaze, very different from a dream character/puppet. The way it looks at you feels human, and words just don't do it proper justice. it's like trying to explain what something having life looks like. Something that maintains eye contact, has a sharp gaze, corrects you, no less real than any person I have ever met. Dream characters, 99% of the time, don't invoke this feeling.

I did not give the conversation the attention it probably deserved because I still classified the character as another dream construct and was more interested in initiating a projection. As I shifted awareness back toward my physical body, the character told me that the method I was about to use would fail. I laughed and replied that it absolutely would work, because it rarely ever fails. (I'll share the method later in the post).

To my surprise, it did fail, and I simply woke up.

How did the character know it would fail? I don't know. One possibility is that some part of the brain recognized a condition that would prevent the projection, while my conscious awareness did not. This would suggest that the subconscious contains information inaccessible to the ordinary conscious mind. The character also referred to my lack of sleep due to work and gave me general life advice, creating the impression of speaking with a normally inaccessible aspect of the self.

The broader point is that, in a small minority of dreams, figures appear that behave outside the normal pattern. Whatever they are, their apparent autonomy makes them qualitatively different from ordinary dream characters.

In my experience, dream characters and their narratives rarely remain intact once full lucidity is achieved. The narrative and act depends heavily on the dreamer remaining unaware of the state they are in. Once lucidity is attained, everything tends to fall apart.

I mention this now only to clarify the familiarity behind these observations. I believe it's relevant to illustrate the extent to which these things have been tested, but certainly not to brag.

I have achieved the developed skill of almost 100% dream recall for a while now. Every day that I wake up, even if I fail to become lucid during a dream, I remember every single one of my dreams, every day. I will teach you the method I used to achieve this level of recall, but let me first clarify. Is there a possibility that maybe I am not remembering every single dream that was had during the entire night? I believe so. How ever, every day that I wake up, I remember dreams in their entirety, sometimes multiple, along with the context, progression, and events that took place. Am I maybe only remembering the last dreams I had before waking up? Possibly. Whether I'm only remembering 1-3 dreams, when I actually had 5, and just don't remember the other 2, is a possibility. How ever, every day that I wake up, I can tell you what I dreamed about, and could walk you through the dream. There hasn't been a day, in a long time, where I wake up and don't remember having a dream. I am able to recall when a dream ended, when a liminal space starts and gives the new dream time to render, and then what dream came after it, and so on.

Lucidity is separate. I estimate my success rate at roughly 30-40%, if deliberate effort is made prior to sleeping. Most nights I simply sleep without attempting anything unusual, and I suspect allowing the brain to rest without repeatedly inducing lucidity is actually beneficial.

A Brief Observation on Marijuana and Dreams

My firsthand observation is that marijuana affects either the ability to dream, dream recall, or both, and appears to reduce the likelihood of achieving lucidity.

I used marijuana primarily before sleep until my early 20s; I am now 31. In my experience, it made astral projection more difficult, particularly through indirect methods that depend on becoming lucid within dreams, while not affecting the direct method as much.

I suspect this is related to marijuana’s effect on REM sleep. After discontinuing regular use, dream recall may increase substantially over the following months.

Quitting alcohol and nicotine did not produce an equally obvious effect or relevant benefit in the same way that quitting marijuana did.

On Dream Environments and Their Stability

The development of reliable dream recall has allowed me to observe several recurring features even in dreams where I do not achieve full lucidity.

Dreams frequently place us in liminal or transitional environments. Sometimes these spaces constitute the entire dream. At other times, they appear to function almost like loading zones: temporary settings in which little of consequence occurs while the next environment or narrative is being formed.

I often find myself in gas stations, grocery stores, waiting areas, or other places associated with passing time. On other occasions, I am occupied with games or minor activities, as though the mind is generating entertainment simply to keep awareness engaged.

My interpretation is that these environments may serve a restorative or transitional function. I cannot prove that the brain deliberately creates them to prevent lucidity, but they often seem to keep the dreamer occupied while little else develops. Another possibility is that they provide rendering time for a new scenario to form, like a computer's loading screen.

When I astral project or lucid dream repeatedly over several consecutive days, I eventually tend to experience a dream consisting almost entirely of one of these uneventful spaces. My impression is that this may represent an attempt by the mind to reduce activity and enforce a period of recovery.

I do not believe every dream necessarily contains a hidden lesson, symbolic message, or greater purpose. The function of dreaming remains poorly understood, and many confident explanations are still theoretical. This is not an argument against science. It is simply an acknowledgment that the scientific understanding of dreams, consciousness, and the mind remains incomplete.

In terms of environmental stability, ordinary dream environments are generally volatile. Even after lucidity is established, faces may change, locations may transform, and objects often struggle to preserve a consistent form.

One experiment I have repeated many times involves holding an ordinary object, such as a knife, and observing it continuously without attempting to alter it. Eventually, the object tends to bend, change size, lose detail, or transform into something else. Food behaves similarly, often shrinking, expanding, or changing form during prolonged observation. Food some times changes entirely, such as a banana pudding actually becoming lime pudding, and so on.

Maintaining the stability of a dream environment requires active effort. Even then, the environment will eventually distort or collapse. This is one of the clearest differences I have observed between dreams and the astral, where environmental stability appears to persist without continuous mental maintenance.

Dream Nesting or Nested Dreams

There is a phenomenon called nested dreams. Once lucid, the individual may notice that hiding beneath the current dream, is another nested experience, multiple layers. The further back the individual peels these layers, the more strange and seemingly physical things become. If I go far enough with it, eventually it triggers a false awakening.

On Thought Forms

I do not intend to explore this subject in great depth here, although it represents another area in which I have spent considerable time experimenting.

A thought form is deliberately constructed by an individual. Its appearance, personality, behavior, and function can be shaped over time. This distinguishes it from an ordinary dream character, which emerges spontaneously within a dream narrative. A thought form is intentionally created and can be assigned a specific purpose.

With sufficient attention and repetition, a thought form may become a recurring presence in dreams and even in astral projections. I will avoid a broader discussion of whether these constructs eventually acquire an independent paranormal existence, because that question would take the post too far from its central purpose.

The most relevant example from my own practice is the use of a thought form as an aid to lucidity and astral projection. I created one whose assigned function is to help me recognize the dream state and initiate the astral projection process. When I see or sense it, lucidity is often triggered.

What is particularly interesting is that a thought form can first appear within a dream and then seem to persist after the transition into an out-of-body state. This is not easy to accomplish, and I am hesitant to describe the process in detail here. Readers who are interested can investigate related concepts such as elementaries, servitors, and tulpa.

When I say that thought forms are “real,” I do not necessarily mean that their existence must be interpreted paranormally, although I personally believe the subject may extend into that territory. At a minimum, I mean that such constructs can be intentionally developed, repeatedly encountered, and assigned functional roles.

On Entities

I will keep this section relatively brief because I have discussed the subject at length elsewhere:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AstralProjection/comments/1lv8mu1/astral_self_defense_everything_you_should_expect/

Whatever one believes entities ultimately are, they appear to belong to a category distinct from ordinary dream characters and deliberately constructed thought forms. They may occasionally appear during dreams, but in my experience they are encountered primarily during astral projection.

Entities do not generally mirror the individual’s emotions, desires, or expectations. They do not conform to the emotional or narrative momentum of the experience, nor do they simply become what the observer wants them to become. Unlike ordinary dream characters, they may interrupt a narrative entirely, refuse cooperation, behave unpredictably, and pursue motives that seem unrelated to the projector’s immediate mental state or goal. There have been several times where being in the presence of one made me afraid, especially when I was younger. How ever, more than once, they have corrected my fear, rather than "egging it on". The notion that the astral will necessarily always mirror your state of being, expectation, and emotion, is not usually true in my experience.

They present as sentient and independent, just like an ordinary person would in the physical. I am deliberately setting aside philosophical systems such as the Law of One or the proposition that “everything is mind.” Those discussions have merit, but they would complicate the narrower point being made here: within the experience itself, an entity behaves as an independent intelligence with its own motives and personality. it cannot be puppeteered like a dream character or thought form.

Although I have tried to avoid making the paranormal the focus of this post, I would be omitting an important part of my observations if I failed to state that some encounters appeared to extend into the physical environment. I have observed multiple events in which entities affect or respond to physical circumstances. The reader is not obligated to accept that interpretation, but I cannot honestly remove it from an account of what I have repeatedly experienced. I believe they are real, objective and sentient.

On Astral Environments and Their Stability

The astral environment, or whatever terminology one prefers, displays a remarkable degree of stability. Objects do not generally morph, faces tend to remain consistent, and structures preserve their form without requiring continuous attention or maintenance.

In my experience, the environment is so vivid and consistent that it may cause the individual to question the comparative reality of ordinary physical perception.

Colors are more vivid, food has flavor and texture, temperature, and there is frequently a sensation of being “awake for the first time.” In other words, it feels more real than physical reality. I have never found the astral state easy to confuse with an ordinary dream. I recognize that other practitioners may report different experiences, and mine may be different in certain respects, but these are all things I have repeatedly observed firsthand for years.

As in dreams, it is possible to eat, drink, experience intoxication, and engage in sex within the astral. The sensory quality, however, is different. Food in particular can feel nearly indistinguishable from physical food in terms of flavor and texture, along with changes in temperature produced by substances such as alcohol.

Even if the entire experience were ultimately explained as a brain-generated phenomenon, that would not make it uninteresting. The ability of the mind to reproduce flavor, texture, sexual sensation, and states resembling intoxication in the absence of their physical causes would itself be remarkable. These experiences inevitably raise questions about the degree to which ordinary physical reality is also mediated through consciousness.

Unlike dreams, astral projection experiences seem to get stored in a different part of the brain. They get fried in to an area where I am personally unable to forget them, even if I wanted. I can describe, in detail, every single astral projection I have ever had. I don't know why this is the case, when I can barely remember where I placed my car keys last night. The way in which they become embedded as a core memory, is extremely odd. It's like the brain gives them more significance than everyday events, and prioritizes their storage.

Also worth mentioning that I have never "dreamed of having an astral projection". This is important to mention, because people often say we astral project and just don't remember because we are not lucid. Maybe this is true, but I have not observed it to be the case. If it was so, I would likely remember a non-lucid projection, the same way I can recall non-lucid dreams. I have had dreams that mimic astral projection, but no actual non-lucid astral projections.

This intensity is one reason I do not regard astral projection as beneficial for children, adolescents, or people with certain mental health conditions. The brain continues developing into early adulthood, and my personal advice is to avoid deliberate practice until at least the early to mid-twenties. I believe experiences of this intensity could negatively affect a developing person’s sense of reality or psychological stability.

Likewise, for individuals already experiencing serious mental health symptoms, these practices may intensify existing difficulties or provoke new ones. Astral projection will not necessarily be a net positive to every person’s life.

Needless to say that I personally find value in the practice, but not everyone will. To each their own.

The Principle of Motion and Propulsion

The astral environment appears to respond strongly to motion and propulsion. If a person becomes stuck in a room or cannot pass through a window, it is often useful to grasp a nearby object or surface and use it to generate momentum. Creating motion tends to resolve the sense of immobility and can make exiting the immediate environment easier. Try "diving" through the window, for example.

The Assignment of Functional Burden

When an action feels difficult or impossible, it is often helpful to delegate the required function to a created tool or vehicle. I refer to this as assignment of functional burden, or assigning the burden of function.

If flight is difficult, the individual can create a vehicle and assign the function of flight to it. If the individual is being attacked or harassed, a created object may be assigned the function of injuring. In general, a desired action can become easier when the responsibility for performing it is transferred from the individual to a tool. Perhaps because it removes the functional burden from the individual, and places it on said tool. This principle can be used to achieve or overcome many things I often see people struggling with. Travel, lucidity, vision, anchoring, all can be more easily accomplished with the use of a tool.

Intention

Intention is extremely powerful. We can use firearms as an example. If the individual were to produce a can, and then shoot the can from a distance, it will always hit the target. This is an experiment I have repeatedly tested. The bullet will always hit it's target, and no consideration for gravity or resistance is required. Needless to say intention is useful for other things also, I just use bullets as a practical example.

Injury

Pain is possible to be felt in the astral, but nothing seems to ever remain or bleed in to the physical.

Physically injuring someone from the astral is a claim Monroe and some occultists have made. If one wants to make the claim that this is possible, I believe clear evidence should be produced. If the individual is unwilling to produce evidence, for whatever reason, perhaps it should not be spoken of. It is certainly not the norm, or as consistent as Monroe described, but again, if someone has the ability to do this, then don’t let the government find out. I’m not here to argue, simply state that this is an extraordinary claim, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Seeing from the Astral into the Physical

A related claim, associated with Monroe and several occult traditions, is that an individual can consistently observe physical locations from the astral. Because of such accounts, many newcomers assume that this ability is ordinary. In my experience, it is not.

I am not attempting to dismiss Monroe or declare his reports false. I am arguing that the consistent perception of verifiable physical information while astral projecting would be an extraordinary ability and should be treated accordingly.

I believe it may be possible, but it is neither typical nor as straightforward as some of Monroe’s descriptions can make it appear. People often become unusually defensive when Monroe's work is questioned, almost as though the subject were religious. My intention is not to discredit him. It is to point out that, if his reported interactions with the physical world occurred as described, then those experiences were exceptional rather than representative of the average practitioner.

It is important to make this distinction because I know very few people who claim to be able to perform this consistently. Most practitioners either cannot do it at all or soon discover that the process is far less straightforward than they expected.

Questions demanding proof appear frequently here largely because of these extraordinary claims. Unfortunately, most practitioners are unable to provide the kind of evidence being requested, because the experience does not generally operate through a simple one-to-one correspondence with the physical environment.

The proposition that the astral is intrinsically linked to the physical, and that one can reliably affect or extract verifiable information from the physical while operating from the astral, is a substantial claim. It requires substantial evidence. I understand why some practitioners may be unwilling to conduct demonstrations solely for the purpose of proof; within my own practice, such a thing would also be considered inappropriate. However, publicly boasting about such abilities carries little evidentiary value when no verification can be offered.

Again, I believe interaction with the physical may be possible, but I regard it as exceptional. I have personally witnessed events that I interpret as paranormal effects in the physical environment. At the same time, I recognize that testimony without supporting evidence remains anecdotal and cannot be expected to persuade everyone.

Why Is Physical Perception Usually So Limited During Astral Projection?

There are many theories, all I can do is share mine.

I believe awareness may function somewhat like a radio receiver, capable of tuning into different levels of experience. Different levels appear to require a suitable vessel which awareness can use to properly interface with.

We interact with the physical world through the physical body. During astral projection, however, perception does not appear to occur through the physical eyes or the ordinary sensory organs. The astral body, is the vessel adapted to interface with the astral environment. The physical body is adapted to the physical environment. This may explain why the physical body cannot ordinarily see or touch the astral and why the astral body cannot ordinarily perceive or manipulate the physical with equal clarity. Different vessels are adequately equipped to interface with different levels of reality.

Some individuals will likely point out that some people can indeed see in to the astral and so on, but again, this is not the norm. I am married to a medium, so It’s not like I don’t believe in these things, but they are akin to clairvoyance and out of the ordinary. We start getting in to the realm of psychic powers with some of these claims, which again, is not my place to discredit, because I believe in these things, my point is simply that they are extraordinary and out of the norm. This was my point with Monroe's claims also, not that they are false, just that they are not ordinary or the norm.

The same reasoning applies to physical interaction from the astral. The astral body does not seem naturally equipped to interface with physical matter; the physical body is.

Whatever Monroe may have been doing, in my opinion, should not be treated as the normal baseline. His work has shaped public expectations around astral projection to such a degree that many beginners assume physical verification should be immediate and routine. Even experienced projectors who believe interaction with the physical is possible, will likely tell you that -"It's not that simple". In other words, there's more to it, it's not as easy as Monroe made it seem.

For most people, demonstrating astral projection will be extremely difficult. I have used the following analogy before because I think it illustrates the problem well: proving astral projection may be comparable to proving the contents of a dream.

If I told you that I dreamed of a panda eating apples last night, you would probably accept that the dream occurred. Dreams are common, and the report is plausible. Yet if you demanded objective evidence that I truly experienced that exact dream, I would have no reliable way to produce it.

Not every genuine subjective event can be converted into a straightforward physical demonstration.

For that reason, I do not blame anyone who remains skeptical of astral projection. It is the kind of phenomenon that may hold little value for a person who has not experienced it directly. I rarely attempt to argue someone into belief because doing so is similar to trying to prove a private religious experience to a skeptic.

The Silver Cord and the Astral Matrix

A longstanding belief holds that when a person leaves the body, they remain connected to it by a silver cord, sometimes said to be linked to life itself and fatal if severed.

I have never personally seen a literal silver cord, and I do not believe it should be interpreted as a visible object. What I have observed, however, is what is often called the astral matrix: a strong magnetic connection that anchors the astral body, or awareness, to the physical one.

The vibrations commonly experienced before astral projection are likely related to this connection. Even early in my practice, I noticed a strong pulling sensation that returned me to the physical body. During involuntary projections, this can produce a kind of tug-of-war, with the astral body moving away while another force pulls it back.

I suspect this force is what earlier traditions represented symbolically as the silver cord. The mind frequently generates imagery to explain unfamiliar sensations. My hypothesis is that the cord emerged as a symbolic representation of a real felt connection rather than a literal rope.

I have moved my hand through the area where the cord is traditionally said to be and have never encountered anything solid. What I do perceive is a broader elastic pull or magnetic tension connecting the astral body to the physical one.

I believe this connection ceases at death and helps anchor awareness to physical existence. It may also explain why becoming permanently lost in the astral, or being unable to return to the body, does not appear to be a common risk. In other words, I do believe there's something there, just not a literal cord. I believe the cord is the result of brain-generated imagery aiming to explain said attachment.

Possession

I do not believe an entity can simply enter and take control of the body without some form of deliberate permission or participation. That subject falls outside the scope of this post and moves into areas such as channeling and invocation. Which are indeed things I believe in, but not in the way most people traditionally fear.

I do not believe the physical body can be casually hijacked while the individual is astral projecting. If possession occurred that easily, then after more than a thousand experiences I would presumably have encountered it by now. This reasoning may contain an element of survivorship bias, but even if involuntary possession is possible, it is clearly not a normal outcome.

Death

I do not believe astral projection can directly cause death in the manner sometimes described in occult folklore.

I do believe, how ever, that an experience could indirectly contribute to a medical emergency. An extremely frightening projection might produce intense physiological stress, and in a vulnerable person that stress could conceivably trigger a serious event such as cardiac arrest. This is one reason I have consistently recommended some degree of preparatory work before deliberately pursuing astral projection.

How to Develop Consistent Dream Recall

Each morning, before doing anything else, spend 5-10 minutes attempting to reconstruct what you dreamed. Record whatever you remember in a dream journal, even if the entry is simply that you remember nothing.

The act of recording conditions the mind to treat dream memory as significant. Over time, this tends to improve recall and may also increase the likelihood of lucidity by making the dream state more familiar and recognizable.

This practice has been the central element of my own success. Some people recommend frequent reality checks throughout the day. I do not generally use them. In my experience, consistently directing attention toward dreams is often sufficient to improve both recall and the frequency of lucid awareness.

Affirmations before sleep can also be useful. Ideas repeated regularly at night tend to enter the subconscious. This may explain why merely reading about astral projection sometimes precedes involuntary experiences: the subject has been repeatedly introduced into the mind immediately before sleep.

A tool that can be of aid is a string of beads. Focus, repeatedly, on the goal. When the string ends, you may sleep. Never direct the focus to counting, that's the purpose of the string.

Direct Method: How to Exit the Body

This subject is too extensive to explain properly within Reddit’s character limitations. The direct method is primarily achieved through meditation and does not require gimmicks, substances, or elaborate external tools.

It took approximately eight months of practice before I achieved my first successful experience. Even then, something appeared to assist the process. This is one reason I believe sustained attention to the subject increases the likelihood that an experience will eventually occur.

If we stare into the abyss for long enough, eventually the abyss stares back at us.

How to Reconnect with the Physical Body During a Lucid Dream

The method I use involves a form of dual awareness. While lucid within the dream, I pause and focus on sensing my physical heartbeat. Once the heartbeat becomes perceptible, a connection with the resting body is re-established, and awareness can be shifted back toward it.

When awareness returns, the physical body will often still be in a state of sleep paralysis. From that state, a deliberate separation or manual exit can be attempted.

I generally use lucid dreams for one of two purposes: direct experimentation within the dream itself, or as a point of awareness from which I can reconnect with the physical body and initiate an astral projection.

How to Distinguish Independent from Brain-Generated Imagery

I use a specific protocol for this, but it is somewhat arduous and would require more space than is available here. So I'll just link you to that post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AstralProjection/comments/1ptknpg/thought_control_the_protocol_to_have_better/

The Famous Dweller on the Threshold

I have a separate post analyzing this subject, which I will link. The extent of what I will say here is: the reader should be aware of it. Contrary to popular belief, I do not believe that everything you will see is that, but I do believe it is also very real.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AstralProjection/comments/1pw79wb/the_dweller_on_the_threshold_is_an_objective_and/

Unfortunately, the original contents discussed here had to be heavily condensed to comply with Reddit’s character limits.

reddit.com
u/lagunitarogue — 2 months ago

Kitopi - the place where all fears get tested

I arrive at a place that looks fairly serene. I see water fountains, people walking around, a nice sunny sky. If I had to describe the place, it looked maybe like Greece? I’m not sure.

Picture a place where the environment just feels warm, even the colors of walls and the ground look tan or yellowish. There were no buildings, all structures were short. Short square connected structures, with open patios, water fountains, grapes growing on these vertical wooden pallet type things.

People were walking around and going about their day, until I arrived.

I slowly descend to the ground level, and take a deep breath. It’s like the place promoted a sense of calm, or serenity.

Once I stand on the floor, all the residents in the patio stare at me. They don’t look hostile, a mixture of men and women dressed in modern clothing. They don’t look like they belong to any particular nationality or ethnicity, everyone looks unique, but all human.

There was this moment of silence where I just stared at them, because everyone turned to me and was staring in silence. Maybe like 30 people? Just dropped everything they were doing to look at me. None of them looked hostile, just maybe curious.

I asked a young man, who was the closest:

- What is this place?

He said:

- This is Kitopi, the place where all fears get tested.

I took a minute to digest what he said. Next thing I know, they all swarm me. They become a bit more ghost-like in their appearance, even a bit taller or longer, and almost ambush me. None of them ever touched me, but they started towering over me, clearly trying to intimidate me. They said:

- Are you afraid?

I didn’t feel fear in that moment, more of a general concern about who these people were and why were they being hostile. I stood up to them, honestly expecting them to back off, but they didn’t.

I tried making general declarations, stating that they could not scare me. I tried mentally making them go away, but they wouldn’t. I tried making my self scarier than them, showing teeth, opening my mouth. I tried taking on the shape of an animal to freak them out, but it didn’t work. As in, I wasn’t able to shape-shift, grow, or make my self scarier.

I felt like I had no power within the experience. I wasn’t scared of them, but I didn’t have any sort of “ability”. I couldn’t get them away from me.

None of them were touching me, but they would not give me room, felt claustrophobic, like a mob ambushing you. All of them just towered over me and nothing I tried really worked. There was this moment, maybe after 3 times of trying different things that failed, where I had an “oh shit” feeling, like nothing was working and how do I get out of here now. I definitely felt self-doubt, not quite fear, but again, an “oh crap” feeling.

One of them said:

- Do you think you’re ready?

- Ready for what?

- Do you think you’re brave?

- I’d like to think so.

The moment I said that, I felt like I was swept by my feet. Like a force pulled me by the ankles, I few on my face, and it began pulling me back.

When I open my eyes, I’m on a large ship, and the feeling of being pulled back is actually the boat going over a huge wave, which caused it to tilt upward and drag me to the back of it, giving the feeling of being pulled backwards. I slid down the deck, to the back of the boat.

There was a horrible storm. A torrential amount of rain, lightning that struck very close, and just so much water pouring I could barely see. The boat was a large sail boat, a wooden ship from a long time a go. It was dark, not quite night, but not daytime either.

Very on brand considering I’m terrified of large bodies of water, especially the open ocean. If I had to think of one thing I would just never want to deal with, it would be this. A flimsy wooden boat in the middle of a storm, where I can’t even stand still because the waves are rocking it so hard, and at any moment I could sink in to the dark water.

This large spear looking thing hits my foot, like a wooden harpoon with a metal blade. I remember thinking -“what’s this for?”.

Sure enough, the ocean is littered with these large serpent looking things. This isn’t an animal that exists, it looks straight out of myth, like a sea dragon.

They keep crashing in to the boat, causing parts of it to break off, and shaking the whole thing, which makes it hard to get up. The internal monologue going through my head was something like this:

“Alright, fuck this. I’m not playing this game, I’m leaving”.

I felt an urge to stay though, as if I knew this was something I had to endure for whatever reason. As soon as I made the conscious decision to stay, the creatures took note of me.

I then spent what subjectively felt like hours, fighting these things to the death with said harpoon.

I tried bringing other more useful weapons to the experience, did not work. I tried mentally stabilizing myself so I could stop falling over from the boat getting rocked, it did not work. I tried flying, it did not work. There was nothing I could do, other than keep falling over, and then picking up this harpoon thing, which was the only equalizer available.

It’s like someone just dropped me in to their own private server, where I had no power over anything, set these creepy snakes loose, gave me a stick, and wished me good luck.

Said serpents were huge, but not so huge that I felt insignificant. Maybe the size of a large moose, but the length of a building. They had dark black eyes, and shark-like teeth. Not multiple rows of teeth like sharks do, more like the shape of a dog’s mouth, but sharp teeth. Colors ranging from shades of dark blue and grey, it was dark and hard to see color honestly. I guess imagine something between a large snake, a dog, and a shark.

They would snap at me, like a snake does, trying to bite me. I would thrust the harpoon in to their face. It was interesting that when the blade made contact with their skin, it had resistance. It’s not like these were phantoms, were once struck by the edge they would simply vanish. The blade would sink in to their flesh, some times feel stuck, and produce a wound.

I did this for a long time. At one point I ended up in the water, which was freaky, and swam back to the boat. I did not enjoy having to swim and not being able to fly, this is probably my worst fear. I remember feeling winded too, as in, I could feel my heart pounding and running out of breath, getting tired, needing to gasp for air, not being able to breathe underwater, needing to take breaks while I climbed back in to the boat because I needed to take a breather.

I don’t know how long I was there for, playing this really fucked up game, but it felt like forever, it just wouldn’t end. I felt like if I ever became distracted, or if I let my guard down, I’d end up getting killed or thrown in to the water again. I spent, how ever long it was, fighting these things off.

At some point, either they were all dead, or they just gave up. The experience ended, and here I am.

Normally this is the type of thing I avoid, even during astral projection. If I see water, I’m out. I decided to tough it out though, because it felt deliberate given the entire context.

I was made aware that this would be a fear test, and was given the choice to endure it or not. Perhaps that’s why I decided to stick with it, because I knew it wasn’t random, and that I was being tested (for whatever reason).

I didn’t get to return to that place once the experience was over. No one came to congratulate me, or bring me back to some sort of incredible place where 12 virgins awaited for my return. I didn’t get any sort of reward or magical insight. No one said anything.

The experience ended when the serpents were gone. I sat on the boat for a while, just to get a breather. My mustache tasted like salt, and my eyes were burning, probably also from the salt. That same feeling you get from opening your eyes underwater at the beach.

After a while I just got dragged back, by a familiar magnetic feeling. I open my eyes, and it’s just my room. My dog is laying in bed, and as soon as she notices I’m awake, she starts stepping on me. I decided to log this immediately after.

No idea what “Kitopi” is, or what that even means. It’s just what I was told the place is called. Maybe I heard it wrong, but I’m pretty sure that’s what he said.

reddit.com
u/lagunitarogue — 2 months ago
▲ 103 r/occult

Has anyone ever heard of or been to a place called “the never”?

I had an astral projection recently, and I questioned one of the inhabitants as to where I was. Said individual told me -"this is the never". I repeated it back to him, to make sure I heard him correctly, and he confirmed that this was indeed "the never", whatever that means.

I have heard of other terms, such as the "nether", but not specifically the "never".

Has anyone ever heard of this particular place or know what it is in reference to, or perhaps what he meant? I, of course, have my own assumptions and ideas, but I'd like to hear other people's perspectives/opinion.

I'd post the full experience here, because context might help, but the sub's filters keep blocking me from doing it.

If I had to describe the location and the entity/individual I interacted with:

Looked just like your average modern American suburb, with modern cars, and paved roads.

There were multiple individuals there, all average or normal looking people, and I was able to get one of them to speak to me. The man I spoke to looked to be in his 40s or so, Hispanic, and was very nice/warm. There wasn't anything out of the ordinary about him, looked just like a regular person.

This is how the conversation went. I looked around, and then asked:

- So what exactly is this place? Where am I?

He responds:

- this is the never.

- the never?

- yes.

- what the hell is that?

As he began to answer, I started to lose my audition. I felt a ringing in my ears, and a similar feeling to when you go to the mountains and the ears feel clogged.

I told him that I thought I was being forced back to my body, or that I was losing lucidity. I don’t know that he looked concerned, but he was trying to help. I started touching the floor, trying to ground myself in the environment. It was the first thing that came to mind.

As I touch the ground, I notice that my fingers feel numb, almost as if I was slowly losing the connection with the place I was in. I could feel the floor, and the harshness or texture of the pavement, but it felt like my hands were going numb, like it was slipping away.

I don’t know why everything was fine until he told me the name of the place, but after that, it’s like something didn’t want me to be there anymore, and was forcing me back. I looked at him, because I could tell he was trying to tell me what to do, or help.

I don’t know if he told me to open or squint my eyes, but he told me to do something with the eyes, I could barely hear him.

- Stretch the eyes?

So I began forcing my eyes open, like widening them. When I did that, I opened what felt like my physical eyes. As in, I felt a second pair of eyelids opening up, like a layer of reality under that one. So I instead opened the wrong pair of eyes, accidentally. This is a weird feeling to describe, but think of it as opening or manipulating something beneath or behind the current layer.

When I opened my “physical” eyes, I found my self in a room.

The experience continues after this, but again, the sub's filters are giving me a hard time. The gist of it is, I found myself in a "layer" bellow or behind that one. What I thought were my physical eyes opening, where actually another set of eyes, belonging to "my existence", or an experience, in a location behind that one. Again, like layers.

Eventually I ended up coming back and opening my actual physical eyes, and was back here no problem. So think of it as 3 separate layers of experience, or locations, all peeling one behind the other. The "never" was said first location.

No I don't do drugs, of any kind, I don't even drink. Sorry I can't just post the full experience, but I think this gives enough context as is.

reddit.com
u/lagunitarogue — 3 months ago

Has anyone ever heard of or been to a place called “the never”?

During a projection this evening, I spoke to an individual who shared something that stuck with me, but I couldn’t get more information on it.

I ended up in a suburban looking place, with several houses. There were several men talking and hanging out, no women. They all looked like average people, just a bunch of guys shooting the shit and laughing, speaking in Spanish. Also several cars parked, looked just like a modern American suburb.

One man in particular seemed to be the center of attention, don’t know why. He looked like a middle aged Mexican guy, maybe like 40.

I kept calling him, and at first he ignored me, so I started taunting him in Spanish, in a joking way. Eventually he came over to me, and looked kind of annoyed. I was calling him “cabron” to get his attention and messing with him, I’d assume that’s why he didn’t look super thrilled. Maybe I was being annoying and interrupting his conversation with friends.

I told him that I was just messing with him and trying to get his attention, didn’t mean to be rude. He smiled, and said it was ok.

He dressed just like someone nowadays would, looked middle aged, did not have an accent, looked to be hispanic. Was extremely nice and had a welcoming voice, I don’t know how else to put it. Someone you would just naturally want to be friends with, a very warm tone.

This is how the conversation went. I looked around, and then asked:

- So what exactly is this place? Where am I?

He responds:

- this is the never.

- the never?

- yes.

- what the hell is that?

As he began to explain, I started to lose my audition. I felt a ringing in my ears, and a similar feeling to when you go to the mountains and the ears feel clogged.

I told him that I thought I was being forced back to my body, or that I was losing lucidity. I don’t know that he looked concerned, but he was trying to help. I started touching the floor, trying to ground myself in the environment. It was the first thing that came to mind.

As I touch the ground, I notice that my fingers feel numb, almost as if I was slowly losing the connection with the place I was in. I could feel the floor, and the harshness or texture of the pavement, but it felt like my hands were going numb, like it was slipping away.

I don’t know why everything was fine until he told me the name of the place, but after that, it’s like something didn’t want me to be there anymore, and was forcing me back. I looked at him, because I could tell he was trying to tell me what to do, or help.

I don’t know if he told me to open or squint my eyes, but he told me to do something with the eyes, I could barely hear him.

- Stretch the eyes?

So I began forcing my eyes open, like widening them. When I did that, I opened what felt like my physical eyes. As in, I felt a second pair of eyelids opening up, like a layer of reality under that one. So I instead opened the wrong pair of eyes, accidentally. This is a weird feeling to describe, but think of it as opening or manipulating something beneath or behind the current layer.

When I opened my “physical” eyes, I found my self in a room. At first I thought I was in my house, but then this dog came up to me. It was a brown poodle type of dog, never seen it in my life. The dog was licking me and happy to see me awake, and for some reason I actually knew the dog.

Not sure how else to put this. I don’t know that dog, but in that experience, I did.

I then notice that I’m in bed, but this isn’t my room. I feel a very bad pain on my left leg, like cramp or soreness. So I sat up and started rubbing my leg to see if it would help.

Then, a woman walks in the room. She looks to be middle-aged, brown hair, and just like an average person. She spoke English and had no accent. She told me she needed to borrow a coat. I didn’t know what to say, so I said nothing.

She goes in to the closet and grabs a jacket. She then asks me:

- Do you think it looks good? Think I could pull it off? (It was like a baseball jacket or something).

Again, I didn’t know what to say and was trying to understand what was happening, so I just said:

- sure.

I don’t know how to explain this. It’s like this place was a layer bellow the last one I was in, closer to physical. I couldn’t even tell that I wasn’t actually there, which is why I was so confused. It felt like a physical place.

My body felt physical and had weight. My leg was sore. The dog’s tongue licking my arm was wet and gross. I got cold so I pulled the blanket over my legs, and I could feel the little furs or fuzz from the material it was made of. I could not tell the difference between that and the physical, if I’m being completely honest (the second location).

When I went to ask the woman questions, I started to feel my actual physical body again, and as soon as I felt that connection with the physical, I opened my actual eyes, and felt a sort of violent vibration or magnetism. Next thing I knew, I was back in my actual room and life. I opened my eyes, and went about my day.

As soon as I woke up, I no longer knew who that woman and dog were. As in, I have no idea who these people are. How ever, in that experience, the dog and the woman were familiar, and it made sense for me to see them, I expected to see them, if that makes sense. I was no longer “me” for a moment, I was fully immersed in the place I ended up in, or in that “life”.

I didn’t think to my self:

-“Gee, I wonder where my wife is? Where are MY actual dogs? What is this place?”

No, I was just temporarily living that experience as if it was my usual life, and everything there was to be expected. How ever, when I came back to my actual life, that “confusion” or those false memories were gone.

It’s not like I came back here and was “confused” or didn’t know what’s real anymore. I instantly knew I was back, and went about my day. But in that moment, while there, it’s like I was in someone else’s shoes, don’t know how else to put it. Trying very hard to put in to words something difficult to describe.

It felt like I peeled through 3 levels of reality or something, the 3rd one being my actual life. It felt like I had multiple bodies, and eyes that could be opened, and each one existed in a different place or level. The first one I knew I was projecting, the second one felt like I was living someone else’s life, and the 3rd is my regular life or the now.

Important to also mention. When I came back to the actual physical, my leg was no longer in pain. It's not like my actual leg was cramping or something, and that pain was bleeding in to the experience. Said pain was unique to that experience, for whatever reason.

In any case, experience aside. Has anyone ever heard of “the never”? Trying to figure out what that guy was talking about.

reddit.com
u/lagunitarogue — 3 months ago

So this is where Immicat and some of Bardon's spirits come from, not just Abramelin.

It is said that Quintscher was Bardon's teacher, and that they were supposedly part of the same lodge or tradition at some point. It is said that a lot of what Bardon knew, he learned from Quintscher, such as the entire idea of developing the mind, imagination, and will first - alot of the ideas in IIH.

I have been on a pursuit, for a few days now, trying to find Quintscher's books, but they are very hard to find and very obscure or niche. I found a few of them, some I'm using a translator to be able to read because I can only find in original German.

One question I always had was about Bardon's original intelligences of the zone girdling the Earth, which are not found in Abramelin and are not the 360 taken from it that everyone always brings up. These seem to be original, or entities he made up, or was uniquely in contact with, or originate from some other source.

I had been on a hunt for information on one particular spirit for a long time, Immicat. I think I see where he inherited her from. It is - Jmical - Awfully close name, and same function (sleep). They were indeed both reading from the same bible, or sharing/inheriting from the same tradition. You will also see Osrail there, which Bardon is often criticized for having stolen or renamed from Azrael. Here we find the same spirit, also mentioned by Quintscher.

Interesting note on Osrail - if you read the passage, it actually requests Osrail to end the life of the magician himself, not others.

As I’m reading the books, it feels like something Bardon would have written, they are clearly sharing a tradition. A lot of it resembles IIH, but a lot of it also resembles PME. Bardon is somewhat vague when discussing the invisible ones, here we find more information regarding contact with them, communion, how it works, and so on. Very in line with PME, which I find extremely interesting.

This is not to dimmish Bardon in any way whatsoever, I just found this interesting, as I have been on a hunt for some of this information for quite some time, and on a deep dive about Quintscher, The Fraternitas Saturni, German occult lodges and secret esoteric societies of the time. Unfortunately this stuff is really hard to find when compared to something like the Golden Dawn materials and so on. Probably a lot of the works of the occult scene from the time in that region were confiscated and destroyed by the Nazis. It is said Quintscher was killed by the Nazis also. Similar to how Bardon's final book of Alchemy got destroyed while in the works, I'm sure a lot of this stuff was also destroyed, or lost to time.

There's something about this lineage of tradition, that goes back since before Bardon, that is very unique and different from what is more easily available and traceable, again, such as GD material that was made public by Regardie, and continued as a tradition in to modern times. Information from this tradition is much harder to find and trace.

3rd image - I tried to edit the post and add the cover for the 3rd image, which is from one of Quintscher's other books. Here we can see more of that lineage/tradition. Don't know why reddit won't allow me to add that image to the post, but this is the title of that book:

Rah Ohmir's Denurian Writings - Denurische Schriften (1928) - 28 years before Bardon's IIH.

Volume 1

Denu Val Gumas

That is:

The Magic of the Will

or the so-called Secret Book of the Master Builders

by

Rah Ohmir Quintscher

- If you read the contents of this book (image 3 - The Magic of the Will), you can clearly tell that either this material/ideas had a huge influence on Bardon, or that they are clearly sharing from the same esoteric tradition. As I'm reading it, you can clearly tell IIH was influenced by this, or this tradition of knowledge and practice. A lot of similar ideas and teachings.

The Magic of the Will - "The first daily exercise is simply thinking one sentence continuously for up to an hour... eventually three hours..." and so on.

Someone also pointed out to me - Quintscher & Lasenic: The Book of Genii. Description:

Quintscher's (and also Lasenic's) 1931 The Book of Genii is a hermetic work containing a practical description of the competencies of the 72 genii of the Mercurian sphere, the magical sigills of the genii and opposite-genii of Mercury, the genii and opposite-genii of the zodiac, and a set of talismans of the Mercurian sphere. It thus forms a fundamental and comprehensive evocation system.

The magical sigills from the Book of Genii were published in their writings by prominent Czech hermeticists of the mid-20th century, František Kabelák and Franz Bardon.

The Book of Genii (written in 1931) was one of the sources for The Practice of Magical Evocation (written in 1950s) by Franz Bardon.

Unlike that book, The Book of Genii also contains the signs of the counter-genii of the spheres of Mercury and the Zodiac.

A unique lodge work that has been published in color only in Czech and English.

- So if we trace back to the co-author of the book, Pierre de Lasenic: -" Lasenic was associated with several esoteric groups, but is remembered for his membership in Universalia. That group was one of the largest in pre-World War II Czechoslovakia. All such groups were banned under the Nazi occupation during the war and then still banned under communism".

They were probably a part of the Universalia.

u/lagunitarogue — 3 months ago

I experienced a past life, or someone else’s life once

This experience happened a few years ago now, maybe 3 or so.

I had an astral projection once, where instead of exiting my body and simply finding myself in my room, I experienced something akin to what Monroe described once. I’m not sure if this is a past life or what, but more than once I have inhabited the body of others.

Once it was the body of a Japanese man, a soldier, which is an experience I don’t want to get into, and happened multiple times during my childhood. I know the man is Japanese because of the historic context, but again, not the experience I want to discuss.

In this experience, I inhabited the body of an Asian woman. I don’t know where she is/was from, because I don’t understand the historic context in this case. I find it interesting that both individuals in these experiences are of Asian descent, given that I am a South American man, and that is not my ethnicity or nationality. There’s no heritage factor there, or anything. My family is originally from Germany, on both sides.

This is a sad experience, and I’m not sure exactly what time period it took place in, or what was happening exactly. I experienced the life of an Asian woman who was being trafficked, or transported, by some sort of military presence. Me, or this woman, was among a group of other Asian women, all naked, being transported as cargo. I don’t know if it was in an airplane or a helicopter, and there were several of us.

They were all extremely terrified, very quiet, and the inside of the aircraft was dark. I didn’t get to “read the person’s mind” to understand the context better, as in, there was no mental chatter or recap. I have no idea what happened, the context, or who she is. I don’t know her nationality either, I just know she is Asian. I wasn’t given some sort of life review of who they are, nor was I in control of the actions, just a first-person observer.

Once we arrive, wherever it is we arrive, several soldiers direct the women on where to go, and order them off the aircraft. I’m not sure if they are soldiers, or some sort of militia, but they are holding rifles, and they look like soldiers to me because of uniform. All the women, naked and barefoot, are directed on where to go and ordered around in a language I can’t understand. After that, I don’t know what happens. The vision or experience was fairly brief, but very real. Too brief, unfortunately, to fully understand the context.

I don’t know if this could be an actual historical event or not, I could also be misreading what was actually happening. Again, no one gave me any context, I’m just relaying what I saw. The people in the aircraft were clearly in distress, but I don’t know exactly why or what was happening, I’m just assuming based on what I saw and felt.

I also find the method of transportation odd, but maybe I’m making assumptions. When I think of these things, I’d assume transportation would happen on a ship, or buss, or train, not aircraft. How ever, that could just be me being uneducated on the matter.

I never had this experience happen again, and I have no idea who that woman is. I assumed past life at the time it happened, but I don’t really know for a fact. The experience didn’t feel like a lesson, nor did I feel a deep sense of connection to the person after the fact. It’s just something I got to experience, and that was that. Whatever it was.

reddit.com
u/lagunitarogue — 4 months ago

Sequence of bizarre events, conversations with inhabitants, attempt to stay, lost in a blizzard.

Log of sequence of very bizarre events all happening within the last 3-4h - 05/27/26.

This is a personal experience log, so I’m sorry if it’s incoherent or all over the place, I have no idea what happened here. Bare with me, because it’s an extremely weird and nonsensical sequence of events that are hard to explain.

Projection starts, and my first thought is to try to check on family in my home country. I’ve been actively trying to figure out a consistent way to get as close as possible to the physical, similar to what Monroe described.

The way I have been getting around in the astral lately is by the use of “portals”. I figured out that the most effective way, at least for me, to get to specific places or do certain things, is by creating tools. For the past 6 months or so, most of my time has been dedicated to creating and testing different tools and seeing what I can accomplish with them.

What I have realized is that just about anything I can’t seem to consistently do, if I delegate the burden of function to a tool, I can use it for that purpose more efficiently. The tool helps guide intention more effectively, and it’s probably a way to trick the brain in to making something possible that otherwise may not be. Delegation of function has allowed me to do a lot. One of these uses, is creating portals or wormholes, or whatever we want to call it.

The portal looks like an opening within space, like a cut. I go through it, and what often happens is this - it feels very computer-like. I’m not sure how else to describe it, but it’s not like I cross it and I’m instantly where I want. There’s a “rendering time”, like a loading screen. I’ll be floating forward through it, and all kinds of random things pass by me for maybe 10 secs. Everything looks compressed and distorted during this time.

Eventually, I just appear somewhere else, which is exactly what happened. I appear in one of my family’s houses, their beach house.

I search the house looking for someone, but no one is there. I then look out the balcony, and I see a ton of people. I jump off the balcony to fly down, so I can speak to them. Except I don’t fly, and this long free fall happens. I land on my knees.

This is the best way I can describe how it felt: imagine if you were to just jump off a building, then when you hit the ground you feel all that impact concentrated in the area you landed on (the knees), but there’s no pain and nothing breaks. That’s what it felt like, impact with no pain.

So I’m a bit confused and checking my knees to see if I didn’t turn in ground beef. I’m wondering why I couldn’t fly and what went wrong. These 2 individuals that were walking together approach me. It’s an older man and a younger woman.

They ask if I’m ok, that it was a long fall. I’m sitting on the floor and I look up at them, they look like normal people.

I ask them, why can’t I fly? They tell me that they also can’t fly, and ask me if I’m not from there. I say no, just visiting. They say I can’t be there. I ask why? The woman says nothing, but the old man tries to tell me something about the government. He has such a thick accent I can barely understand him. Something about the government either “anchoring”, or “enching”, no idea what he was trying to say.

I kept basically saying -“hu?”. And he kept struggling to communicate, so I’d look at the woman and ask if she could translate, but she wouldn’t respond.

So I asked him -“you mean the government is watching? I don’t care friend, I’m not worried”. In the back of my mind I’m thinking this guy is nuts, why are we talking about the government right now? The government of where? Seemed nonsensical to me.

He kept urging me to leave. In the back of my mind I’m thinking, there’s no government here, what’s this guy’s deal.

I asked them what year it was. They seemed puzzled by the question and had no idea what I was asking. I then asked if they were alive. They said yes.

I tell them -“don’t you think it’s a little weird that some random person jumped off a building, and here I am alive? Is this normal to you?”

They said that no, it’s not normal, because no one can fly so why would you jump off a building?

I keep trying to communicate that that’s not my point, this is clearly not a physical reality or I’d be dead. They seem confused. I then think of the most stupid question I can think of, just to see the reaction -“are aliens real?”. They laugh, and say no, not that they have seen. I was testing behavior and response patterns, wanted to see if they would egg things on or not. This entire interaction happened so fast, and was so weird. I don’t know what to make of it.

They look like normal people, behave like normal people, but at the same time, the place is not the normal physical. So then what are they? I have also never heard a single mention of “the government” while in the astral, ever.

Before I can ask another question, I just get sucked back in to my body, out of nowhere.

I get up, I look at my room, and my first thought is -“I wasn’t done there. I gotta go back”.

I use the bathroom, lay on my bed again, and 10-15 minutes I’m out. I do the same thing, create a portal again, and the same thing happens. Like a computer rendering a location.

This time I end up in a different house, also my family’s, but different city. This is where I grew up, where my mother grew up, and where my grandfather still lives.

I try to fly to the 14th level where they live, but again, I can’t fly. I do this little awkward jump thing, but nothing happens. I try to delegate the function of flight to an external energy, which is what I often do to move faster, but nothing happens. So I guess I have to take the elevator… which seems stupid, but it is what it is.

A gate guard that I did not recognize lets me in, he’s talking to someone else. My first though was to go ask them questions, but this time I figured I’d play along, maybe something took note of me last time.

I go up the stairs, then the elevator, and it just feels dumb. I guess the thought of having to use an elevator seemed stupid to me, again, why can’t I fly? (It’s normally a nonissue).

Get up to the 14th level, the door is unlocked. I go in, the house is empty. I go in to my mother’s old room, hoping to find her still alive, but no. I try calling for her, asking for guidance or a visit, but nothing happens. Not that this has ever worked, the only time I have ever been able to speak to my deceased mother was on her own terms, but I gave it a shot since I was in her room. I wandered all the rooms of the house looking for someone, but it was empty.

At some point I start to feel this strong vibration, and a magnetic pull, which I assume was my body pulling me back, or something sending me back to my body.

The pull kept getting stronger, and I kept trying to resist it, I wasn’t done there yet. I grab the same tool I used to make the portal, close my eyes, and try giving it the intention that this would allow me to anchor my self in that reality, and stay. I shove the tool on the wooden floor, which is a knife, and it fixes there.

I get on my knees and close my eyes while sinking it in to the floor, using it as a grip, trying to stay stuck there with it. I can feel this odd energy or feeling, like my body is becoming heavier and vibrating. Everything starts to shake, but I feel like stone, very heavy and fixed.

All of a sudden, I feel this gust of wind, like a tornado, and I can’t continue to hold. It forces me to let go of the tool, and blows me out the window like a ragdoll. It’s like I’m being carried with the wind. Very violent, I can barely see, feels like a blizzard.

I then fall on the floor like a rock, I can even hear a “thud”. I find my self on ice.

I look around, and I guess I’m somewhere in the arctic. There’s a horrible blizzard and I can barely see. I see a mixture of these taller and shorter ice platforms things, and I see that if I can climb high enough, there’s some sort of hill or mountain made of rocks covered by snow. So my thought is -“ok, lets get up that mountain and see what’s up there”.

The thing that freaks me out is that between these ice platforms there’s very clear water. I stare from the edge of the ice, down to the water, and it’s an endless dark abyss down there. It gives me a bit of vertigo, and freaks me out. So I just sat there for a while.

I thought to my self -“nothing here can hurt me. I can’t drown, and I can return to my body whenever I want, so there’s nothing to be afraid of”.

I try to fly, and again I can’t. I try to create, with intention, climbing tools, but it just doesn’t work, nothing happens. I touch the ice surface, it’s cold and slippery. My hand can easily slide on the ice, so my thought is that if I try to make this jump, I’m just going to end up in the endless frozen abyss bellow me. I start to question how safe I really am. Thoughts of getting stuck at the bottom of a frozen void of water get the best of me, and I begin to think I should probably call it a day.

I try to jump a bit to see if I can see over the next platform, and when I land, I see my knife almost at the edge of it. I grab the tool, and I stick it in the ice, which punctures pretty well somehow. So my thought is, this is probably good enough to be my climbing tool, let’s give it a shot, and if I fall, I’ll force myself out of the projection before I have to find out what’s at the bottom. There’s no chance in Hell I’m sticking around for that, dark bodies of water freak me out, especially this deep.

I jump to the other platform and use the knife as a grip. I guess I can’t jump very high, because half of my body ends up submerged in water, and who knows why, but it’s cold as fuck. Like I can feel my self wet and cold from the waist down.

I reach with my arm, and pull my self up the platform. I keep repeating a similar strategy with each one until I get to the hill. The rocky hill is not very high, and easy to climb. I get over it, and it’s just… snow. Like an endless desert of snow where I can’t see jack shit past a couple feet, because of this extremely oppressive blizzard.

So then I decide to just aimlessly walk forward. I don’t know what I was hoping to find, it was more of a desire to explore and see what could be there.

I walked, and walked, and walked… I kid you not, I feel like I walked 2h. Which kind of makes sense, because the projection lasted a few hours. This is an interesting detail to me, because time felt pretty equivalent once the experience ended.

I kept aimlessly walking forward, and it was so fucking cold. My nuts were wet and freezing, and I just didn’t feel like doing it anymore. I pushed on, for so long. I kept calling for help, guidance, or something, and nothing would happen. I kept trying to fly, calling for help, trying to “envision” or “manifest” fire, but nothing. I just felt powerless, aimlessly roaming a desert.

I asked if this was a lesson, if there was something I was suppose to find, if there was a point to it, but nothing would answer. The only thing I could hear was the loud noise of wind.

I shove my hands in my pants to try to make myself warm, because it was becoming painful. My feet felt wet and soggy, also freezing. I kept pushing, because, I don’t know… Maybe the curious in me figured something spectacular was just another 5 minutes away. How ever, nothing. At some point I started to feel delirious from the cold, very disoriented. After a long time of nothing, and being uncomfortable, I decided I had enough and just came back. Like a very unceremonious “fuck this” moment.

No idea where I was, what happened, and why I couldn’t do certain things. There was never a point where I felt like I wasn’t going to be able to come back, but I did feel powerless during most of it. Didn’t feel like the majority of AP experiences I normally have, felt limiting and like I was just getting tossed around.

reddit.com
u/lagunitarogue — 5 months ago

This is how I think the legend of the silver chord started

I’m sure everyone here has heard about the silver chord, it’s a tired subject.

This old idea that the soul is linked to the body via a silver chord, and if said chord snaps, you die.

How ever, the vast majority of projectors, my self included, have seen no evidence of such a thing. So where does this idea come from? Was it just complete made up fear mongering nonsense?

I don’t believe so, and I’ll tell you where I think this idea comes from, and why I believe it’s actually backed by firsthand experience. This is just my theory of how the idea came to be, purely conversation.

When I first began astral projecting 13 years a go, especially during involuntary projections, I noticed something very odd. The body would go through this process where, it felt like, the soul or astral body, was fighting with the physical. Your astral body is naturally trying to float up, while some sort of magnetic force is pulling you back. This creates a very unsettling feeling that I have come to refer to as “the tug of war between physical and astral”. The astral body can’t seem to decide what it wants to do, so you feel puled in and pushed out at the same time.

The occult explanation for what is happening here is that, what is often referred to as the astral matrix, is responsible for this. The body seems to have a natural magnetic force that holds the soul in place. It is said that this magnetism, or link, is a fluid of sorts. With practice and experience, the practitioner learns how to dilute this fluid, or force, allowing for further and longer travel.

Needless to say that I’m not trying to convince you that this is how things actually work, I’m just explaining the idea to those who are not familiar, because I believe it ties in to the origin of the silver chord story.

What early practitioners probably observed is exactly what I did early on, a magnetic force that pulls you back in to the body. We know that, in the astral, what you think of will often manifest. So what I assume happened is that early practitioners would feel this magnetic force, this resistance, and forceful return, so the brain would create a logical explanation for it, manifesting a chord or band.

Why can’t I go further? Why am I being dragged back in to my body? Brain tries to rationalize it, and creates a visual explanation, the silver chord. We see this being the case with what is often called the “old hag syndrome” also.

You’re paralyzed, yet awake. Blood pressure is low, breathing is heavy and shallow. So the brain creates a logical explanation for it, something sitting on your chest. I believe the silver chord is the same thing.

I don’t think it’s a creepy story someone made up. I think it’s an incorrect conclusion based on firsthand experience, mixed with brain generated imagery to explain a misunderstood phenomenon.

So then why the notion that if the chord snaps, you die?

I don’t think it’s made up fantasy, again, just incorrect conclusion based on firsthand experience. When the body dies, many, my self included, believe the soul separates from the physical body. Said natural magnetism then ceases. Back in the day, practitioners who now had the silver chord idea in mind, assumed that this meant that during death a literal chord would break and you died. If you follow that logic, it’s not too much of a stretch to then conclude that if this chord somehow accidentally snapped, you would die prematurely.

This idea was probably then further solidified, I could imagine, because of people dying in their sleep, which is extremely common.

Let’s say Bob is a well known occultist or whatever else. Bob is known to astral project. One day, Bob dies in his sleep. Well, Bob must have died during an astral projection. The chord accidentally snapped while he was projecting.

Who knows, maybe Bob was even indeed projecting while people were watching, and then Bob sees something that freaks him out in the astral, so Bob’s heart rate and blood pressure spike, and Bob dies. Therefore, Bob’s silver chord must have snapped while astral projecting.

You then have a series of new practitioners who now hold this idea, bringing it in to the astral, and there it is, the silver chord materializes. Backed by all these stories and conclusions that got passed down to them. Like generational baggage.

That’s where I believe this idea comes from, personally.

reddit.com
u/lagunitarogue — 5 months ago

Please stop concealing advertisements and products in posts

Hey all, hope you’re all having a great weekend.

We have been noticing an increased number of posts that portray themselves as an average post, but are actually a funnel or an ad in disguise. We do not allow this, so please be warned.

We generally do not allow self promotion on this sub, of any kind. Whether it’s you advertising your new sub, a product, a blog, a website, a channel, or whatever else, it doesn’t matter. If there’s something you would like to advertise, please request permission in the mod mail first, and wait for approval.

The concern isn’t so much things such as -“Hey, I just published a new book”, that should also be cleared with us first, but those kinds of things are less of an issue. The real issue is when users are being deceptive. They make a post, make no mention of anything about a product or funnel, but then you soon realize the post is just an add for something. That’s truly the main issue. The other concern is that external links can cause issues for users of the sub, as they have not been pre-cleared and we don’t know if the website or link is legit.

This is not a place to sell or advertise stuff. We make one time exceptions on occasion, for things like a book or something, but it’s not a place to advertise your patreon or whatever else. Mistakes happen, we understand, but deliberate concealment, or repeatedly doing this, will get you banned.

If you make a post that leads to anything like a product or service, you must clear it with us first, and you need to make it clear on the title of the post in some way. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask people to, at a bare minimum, not be deceptive or upfront about what they’re doing.

If every post you make leads to a link to a blog with a patreon, or you make reposts of the same posts that lead to some sort of funnel, that’s also an issue.

Just think of it like this -“Does my post link to, or is asking people to do something, that will lead to me obtaining some sort of financial gain in any way?”

If the answer is yes, you need to clear it first.

If you see anyone doing this, please report it. Helps a lot.

Note: linking to your own posts here is fine, the concern is more when it links to something that then links to a product, service, patreon, or whatever else.

Have a great day.

reddit.com
u/lagunitarogue — 5 months ago
▲ 16 r/Dreams

Why did I just watch an entire movie that doesn’t exist?

This is the second day this week now where I have a really complex and structured dream, in this case it was a movie, a movie that doesn’t even involve me in a direct sense.

So the story of the dream is about an Italian teenager (im not Italian) that is struggling with staying clean and away from crime, but he’s in a bike gang. There’s this big gang shootout or fight that’s about to happen, and his step dad is a veteran of the military, who keeps trying to convince him that this doesn’t need to happen.

The reason I say it was a movie is because the dream would literally stop, then have a cut scene that would show a flashback of this kid’s childhood, it would say on the screen -“2 years a go…”. Or -“5 years prior to current events…”.

Then it would go back to the present scene, and the dream would literally tell me, in writing -“notice how everyone was younger and now they are older, we are now back to the present time”. Like the dream was explaining itself to me lol.

So then it turns out that the teen, who is not me, I’m just watching, decides that he needs to go through with this fight, and a huge shootout between 2 bike gangs breaks out.

All of a sudden, again the dream fast forwards to -“ a few year later”, like it literally says that, in writing, like it’s a movie im watching. Fast forwards to a scene where the teen’s step father is giving the protagonist a military haircut.

Step father then asks -“Do you want to leave a little high bird”?

Kid says - no.

Step dad tells him that -“it’s gonna look weird if I don’t do it, I’m telling you”. (Like wtf is even a little high bird, I’ve never heard that term, what does this even mean lol).

So basically the movie fast forwards to this point in the future where the kid is getting a haircut, and preparing for military enlistment, and that’s the end of the movie. Like whatever happened is now in the past, the protag is now clean and getting ready to join the military.

I just thought it was so bizarre that there was zero wackiness, everything stayed so consistent, and the fact that the dream kept explaining things to me. Like -“notice this, they were younger in this scene and now we are back to current events”, “2 years later”. The dreams kept explaining the story to me, and the relevance of each scene.

The entire thing played like, and had the flow of a movie, I don’t know how else to explain. I don’t mean “movie” in the sense that it was so real it could have been a movie, I mean that it was literally structured like a movie, super coherent haha. Also, I’m not any of these characters, I’m just watching the story unfold, again, like I’m watching the movie, not participating or ever being addressed. The movie also had an “old timey” feeling to it, it played like an older movie from the 80s or 90s, not sure.

Also, the story is so not relevant to me in any way. I’m not Italian. I’ve never been in a gang. I’ve never had a step dad. Like why am I the target audience for this lol.

I also googled what a high bird is and it is indeed to do with haircuts, it’s a thing. I’ve NEVER heard this term in my life.

It’s like my brain just decided to stream a movie, and once the movie was done, I woke up. The kid got his life together after said events, and joined the service.

reddit.com
u/lagunitarogue — 5 months ago

Experiment with water and floods 05/16/26

Log - 05/16/26

This is the kind of experience I usually don’t share, or intentionally omit parts of, because of how it comes off. With that said, I don’t think there’s value in intentionally altering or omitting parts of the experience in this case, because the experience in its entirety is what led to the reflections and feelings it provoked.

As a kid, many of my summers were spent at a beach house in South America. I find myself missing my home, and days gone by. I have spent several of the last few weeks visiting places that remind me of my childhood, family, friends, and people that are no longer living. Today, I decided to visit said beach house.

I set the intention to visit a beach in Brazil, in a place called Guaruja. To my surprise, I find my self somewhere in the city, but not at the apartment I grew up in, which was the desired destination. I’m not sure why I ended up in the correct general location, but not the right house.

I fly over the city, looking for my building. One thing catches my attention, and I stop to confirm, the city is empty. I go down to the street level, and not a single soul is to be found. I walk down the street, and head over to the beach. It’s completely empty, nothing but the sand and waves. I sat there, for quite some time. I don’t know what I was hoping to see, or expecting to happen, but nothing did. It’s as if I could have stayed for as long as I wanted. Maybe I was looking for someone to greet me, maybe I was hoping to see something interesting, but all I felt was loneliness.

I walked to the end of the beach, as I know that both edges have several rocks, and it’s where me and my father use to catch crabs together. I sat on the rocks for some time, again, not sure who I was waiting for or what I was hoping to see, but again, nothing happened.

From there I know how to get to our old apartment, so I make my way to it. Out the beach, across the road, and there’s the building. I fly up to it, and in to the house, also empty. Distant memories of moments spent with family in said house, every object invokes deep nostalgia.

I sit on the edge of the building, looking at the beach. I don’t know why I wanted to see people so bad, but looking at the empty streets from up there brought me disappointment. I remember then looking at the ocean, and thinking -“if the streets are for no one, then it belongs to the sea”.

I imitate the motion of the current with my hands, and the ocean soon follows. I push the current against the waves, then pull it closer to me, the ocean now covers all the sand. I raise both my hands, and it’s like I can feel weight or resistance. I pull the ocean towards me, and the city is flooded. I raise my hand, the sea level rises. I jump in to the water, looking for animals, but there are none. Not a single fish. I don’t think I’ve ever wanted to see fish so bad.

Maybe that’s the beauty of life. People, noise, animals, all of these things are the real memory. The location is just background, the real memories are from moments, moments shared with people that don’t exist anymore, not a place that can be visited. To visit what I was looking for, is simply not possible, or at least I don’t know how to. The conclusion of my visits to these places has been that visiting locations is completely pointless, what I should learn to do is visit moments.

I then lower the sea level again, the same way I raised it. I begin imagining and creating people, some who I miss. I try to recreate moments, and although similar, they are just as meaningless. Nothing but puppets, servants with no life. I speak to them, they play the part, but that’s all they are, lifeless. I remember feeling even more lonely, more sad, even with all these people now around me. People and moments can’t be recreated, that’s where I seem to find value in life. Servants can be created, and environments molded, but moments never return, maybe that’s what makes them special. Maybe that’s what makes life special, the fact that everything dies, that all comes to an end.

One of said puppets, or thought forms, or servitors, or whatever you want to call it, is quite attractive, I remember feeling desire toward it. The moment I think of it in that way, It approaches, and reflects said desire back at me. Everything about the way it behaves feels hollow, uncanny, artificial, mimicry.

Yet another thing that is only special because of someone else, sex. What’s the point of having sex with something like that, something that might as well be dead inside. Sex, moments, memories, love, life, all these things are only special because of others, because of the presence of sentience and autonomy. Without them, everything truly does feel meaningless and dead. At least that’s how I felt in that moment, as if I was speaking to a cadaver.

I melt my attractive puppet away, and it turns in to a small puddle. I melt all of them away.

I close my eyes and return to my physical body. I take a moment to call my best friend and check in on him, this is also a moment, precious. Someone knocks on my door later in the day, and it’s 2 people from the church. I really dislike when people randomly knock on my door, but this felt endearing. They just wanted to wish me a blessed day, and share a verse from the bible. I’m not really a Christian, but it’s the thought that counts.

Maybe this is why we come here, to learn the value of moments, that which is temporary. To learn why life is precious, because it’s not that different from a moment, also temporary. Maybe that’s what makes things valuable, the fact that they end, and never come back. Maybe that’s what also makes people valuable, the fact that they argue with you, disagree, some times bother you, act in a way you wouldn’t. The unpredictable, the negative, and death, is where a lot of the value in life seems to be. Every day that goes by, I see more value in contrast, polarity. The absence of friction seems to also create an absence of meaning, an absence of sentience and life.

(Maybe I should have just logged the experience and excluded the internal monologue, but it’s what the experience made me think about).

reddit.com
u/lagunitarogue — 5 months ago