u/lzxian

So many want to ridicule us and tell us to move on, it's been x-many years. These people who love the second game and proclaim their wonderful ability to empathize with Abby. Do they really think they're the ones with empathy when they can so cavalierly write off cherished characters who had such a precious and moving relationship unfold before our eyes, touching so many of us so deeply?

Is there a time frame for grief and loss? Yes a broken heart heals, but the scar can often remain for many years or even a lifetime. People who actually are capable of empathy know this.

They celebrate their ability to empathize with a fictional character because the game told them that was its goal, not because they know anything about empathy or they'd have been able to show it to the actual living people who were hurting from the loss of something precious to them. A beloved duo, franchise and favored game developer was lost to us. That should hurt and it does. Yet they come around and ridicule our hurt and dismiss our pain. Even the creator himself does so showing total disregard for hurting a vast number of people who once totally trusted him. To him his art was worth the damage. To the damaged that just adds salt to the wound and reveals his shortcomings: he never learned his own lesson, it was all about his need to provoke.

Who are truly empathetic in this situation? Those who still grieve a very real loss to them, or those who celebrate that they empathized with a character who never even showed us she had a heart because the writer thought that would be lame? That that concept was just something else that must be subverted?

Some may come here to heap on more ridicule and harsh words. They may not be willing to honor my broken heart, but I will. My heart is worthy of being honored. Those with actual empathy understand that.

Those of us here who do understand it, honor each other. That's what empathy really does. It causes us to see the pain and respect the human who bears it. They dropped the ball and instead thought they could force something that cannot be forced, it must come from inside. Thanks to all of you here who know and share that. It's something to behold! ❣️

There's a note in Pittsburgh that tells the story of what went down there:

>We don't need the Fireflies. Sure, they might've started the fight, but we're the ones that have done all the work. It's our blood in the streets. I don't agree with them wanting to take the fight to other cities. They need to earn their independence on their own. And I DEFINITELY won't take orders from some Firefly leader all the way on the other side of the country. Before the fighting ends I suggest we rid ourselves of them. This is our city. Our people. I don't see why we can't rule ourselves. [Emphases added]

While so many defenders want to paint them as the good guys, humanitarians who want to save the world, this note and their many acts prove otherwise. This wasn't a faction seeking to restore order nor to save humanity, these were people who wanted to be the ones in power.

Their lack of regard for the agency and safety of others is on display. In Boston they set off two bombs as a distraction to get Ellie out of the city (put into motion before they even have anyone to do so), endangering innocent civilians. Then note above where they plan the liberation of Pittsburgh, don't even do the work, then still want those citizens to be subject to their authority.

Then we see what they did to Joel and Ellie! They made all the choices at the hospital and refused to allow any discussion, there's nothing more authoritarian than that. They were fully in charge, the outcome is on them!

Authoritarianism is a mindset, believing they can subjugate others to their cause without the others having a vote or a choice. That Abby and Firefly defenders want to ignore that they stole Joel and Ellie's agency, as they tried to do to the people in Pittsburgh, doesn't erase the very obvious evidence provided. Their goal was power, then it was using Ellie to absolve them of all their other terrible actions with one final terrible action: murdering an innocent in her sleep.

Those are not good people.

I am so tired of this being thrown at me as a proof of Ellie's willingness to die in TLOU (five years previously).

They not only didn't ever earn her saying that line. They showed the exact opposite! They really don't understand, "Show don't tell." They constantly get it wrong.

They show Ellie living a good life, in a great community with parties, a job she desperately wanted, friends, resources and safety. She has learned to swim and play guitar, visited a space museum, gotten a tattoo, had one girlfriend and has a new love interest. She even has her own place! This in contrast to Boston and a year of hell on the road?

Why does want to die? Why does her life not already matter? How did they sell that? Why should I believe it? It makes no sense.

So they show one thing and then tell another. The contradiction is absolutely ridiculous. They don't know how to tell stories! So tired of having to point that out ad nauseam. It couldn't be more obvious.

Joel did not doom humanity, it was already doomed. That was his POV through the whole game. From Boston when he dismisses the whole idea of Ellie's immunity and Marlene's plan, Joel isn't convinced. Then to everywhere they went he saw people weren't worthy of the sacrifice the FFs intended for Ellie. His POV is that the FFs have failed everything, including and especially at the Colorado university where their own researcher bitterly complains about their incompetence the past five years.

These are the insights Joel receives throughout TLOU. How can he be expected to have hope? Especially with how he's then treated by the FFs while trying to resuscitate Ellie and in his discussion with Marlene? Just being told to shut up and leave or else he'd be shot. Those are the people fans want him to trust with Ellie and humanity? From his POV how could he? Further why should he? One of them released infected monkeys into the world. How does that save humanity instead of potentially doom some poor soul to getting infected by an animal that shouldn't even be infected?

Another thing that bugs me is how the fans of the sequel love to say, "Of course Joel suffered the consequences of his actions, what did you expect?" Well, the same goes for the surgeon in TLOU, "Of course he suffered the consequences of his murderous intent, what else was Joel supposed to do?" They gave him absolutely no other option. Boom! Consequences.