Is this the direction she would like to take... these epic songs, but she only “dared” to try it with one song. Whether she didn’t know how such a big song would be received, because it really was a bold step. Or whether she knew the song would be a success.

Do you think this is a trend, and that she will become even bolder and more expansive? I’m glad the album is so diverse, so heavy, and that every song is different. But those things don’t exclude each other. I know At Sea impressed even the biggest skeptics, and I’m curious whether she’ll “go off the rails” even more on future albums.

What do you think?

I never expected to see Tarja’s name in the same article as David Guetta, even though it’s on such a sad occasion.

[AI translated]

Tarja Turunen has never fit neatly into any box, and she could not care less, thank you. Exactly thirty years after the release of Nightwish’s first demo, and despite an impressive discography, the singer whose voice seemed better suited to the stage of the Savonlinna Opera Festival than to Wacken still sees herself as an alien—unclassifiable and baroque. With the beaten path almost closed to her by default, Tarja follows her own instincts, taking a purely classical detour here and venturing into Christmas music there.

After no fewer than seven years away from the symphonic metal that made her famous, the Finnish soprano reconnects with her roots on Frisson Noir, an album as rich in references as it is in high-profile guests. A world away from the gothic princess she enjoys portraying onstage, a constantly smiling Tarja told us about the genesis of her new creation, with what could only be described as a wall of gold records behind her during our Zoom call. An alien, perhaps—but one who knows her audience.

>“When I started writing the songs for this album, I was very clear: the only possible direction was to go as heavy as possible. And I wanted to work with a producer because I did not trust myself on that particular point.”

Radio Metal: According to the press release we received for this new album, “Frisson Noir is, without a shadow of a doubt, the heaviest album of Tarja’s career, as well as a powerful declaration of identity, strength and belonging.” That is very true and very obvious from the very first riff of the title track, but why is it happening now? The last time we spoke, in 2019, you admitted that you had had a kind of filter when it came to lyrics before you started writing In The Raw. Do you think you were also holding yourself back musically before Frisson Noir?

Tarja Turunen (vocals): Life is about living and learning. In general, it is as simple as that. I have already done so many things. It has been seven years since my previous album, so people say, “Oh, she is returning to metal.” But I never left! The fact is that this heavy side has always been there when I play live with my band. My sound has always been heavy, ever since the beginning of my solo career, because my band naturally has a heavy sound. The sound has always supported my big voice, and I love that. Since I began producing my own albums, starting with my second record, What Lies Beneath, I had never really managed to capture this kind of sound on record until now, and it was a challenge.

When I started writing the songs for this album, I was very clear: the only possible direction was to go as heavy as possible. I really wanted to do that. And I wanted to work with a producer because I did not trust myself on that particular point. We recorded several versions with the label, but none of them worked. I thought, “What am I going to do now? I have to find a solution.” Then I said, “OK, guys, I want to work with Neal Avron.” Neal Avron is a mixing engineer from Los Angeles whose work with bands such as Disturbed I have followed for a long time. His albums sound clear and powerful, and I have always loved his work. So I said, “I would love to work with him.”

My only concern was the symphonic side of my music. The song “At Sea” features a huge orchestra, as do many other tracks on the album; how was he going to handle that? But that was where my experience came in. I have always loved working with orchestras and arrangers; I have been doing it for years. Working with Neal really was the best possible decision. It was an immense pleasure. He was so open-minded, and wow! The album sounds exactly the way I wanted it to sound! [Laughs]

Speaking of this combination of a heavier sound and your symphonic side, do you now see yourself more as a metal singer or a classical singer? Or is that not really something you think about—is it simply a blend—simply you, full stop?

I do not like having labels slapped on my forehead. I am an artist. Period. I am a singer-songwriter. I am an artist, that is all. Because I do not fit into boxes! If you look at my journey and everything I have done in my career, I simply do not fit into one box. But honestly, it has never really bothered me. I understand that people need a way to make sense of things. They need to place things into categories in order to understand them.

My music is demanding. People will need several listens if they really want to get into this album, and that is precisely what I wanted to offer them: an experience. Because that is what is missing from the music industry today. Everything sounds the same! Everything is either generated or made to fit the same formula. Among the ten most popular artists on the Billboard charts today, how often can you say, “Wow, I have never heard anything like this before!” or “This person does things differently,” “What incredible production!” or “Oh wow, I did not expect that chord!”? It almost never happens.

Although… I have to mention someone who just came to mind: Rosalía, in Spain. I live in Spain, and Rosalía is an artist who broke all the rules with her latest album, and I thought, “Wow! Respect!” I am not afraid of breaking the rules. What rules, anyway? I am a metal singer, yes! I am a classical singer, yes! I am a singer! I am an artist. I live through my art and my music. I breathe for it. I am still living my dreams today.

Why did you choose Frisson Noir? What did a French title offer that an English—or even Finnish—title could not?

I am a very emotional, very sensitive person, and when I listen to music, I feel those shivers. When I look at a beautiful painting, I feel something. I know that not everyone necessarily feels those shivers, that feeling of goosebumps, but when it happens, it is something so delicate that you have to savour it and fully experience that moment. And “frisson” is simply a beautiful word to describe it.

I was thinking about that when I was writing these songs. Especially when it came to the album’s production: I always wanted to dig beneath the surface rather than stay on it. I do not know how to do it any other way. It is very difficult for me to be simply… ordinary. I am not that kind of person! [Laughs]

And “noir”… Once I had “frisson,” I was looking for something to go with it. Obviously, I create from my own darkness. So it became the obvious choice for me, and it is a very beautiful title. I sincerely believe it is the perfect title for this album and the songs it contains. It conveys exactly that feeling.

“It is very difficult for me to be simply… ordinary. I am not that kind of person! [Laughs]”

You have already performed many duets over the course of your career, but never so many on a single album—and not only in terms of guest singers, but guest musicians as well. Why did you feel the need to collaborate so much this time?

To be honest, at the beginning of the process, I thought, “Oh no, I am not going to do any duets”—apart from the one I had already written, which was a duet with Marco [Hietala]. For that song, the entire starting point and writing process were different, because I knew he was ready to collaborate with me, so I had to write a song for him! So it was very different from the very beginning. I had never worked that way before.

For the duet on “I Don’t Care,” I had already finished the song and was simply recording demo vocals to test the lyrics I had written, hear how they sounded and make a few last-minute changes. Then I listened to the demo again and thought, “I need something else. I need somebody who can provide a huge contrast while still fitting the song.” And I immediately thought of Dani [Filth].

I had never worked with him and did not even know him personally before that. So I simply took a chance and sent him… You may have already heard about this, because I have said it several times: never send me messages through Instagram, because they get lost. I cannot keep checking them constantly, and neither can my team. It becomes impossible. And yet there I was, sending Dani a message on Instagram! And it took him only five minutes to reply that yes, absolutely, he wanted to do it! [Laughs]

Then we met in Hamburg for the video shoot. It was a real pleasure to work with him, spend time with him and collaborate on the project. He creates this real sense of collision while also providing a solid foundation. It is a beautiful combination with my clear voice and his raspy screams; it is a perfect combination.

Judging by the reactions online, Dani is probably the last musician in the world people expected to see you collaborate with, because the two of you are at opposite ends of the vocal spectrum. Were you afraid that the combination of your voices might not work?

No, I could already hear it. I could hear it. That is why I chose him. I had the idea and sent him a message that very same day.

I had already done it with Alissa White-Gluz, for example. She sang with me a few albums ago on “Demons In You.” She has a very beautiful clean voice, but she also screams and growls. I had already explored that contrast back then. I love the duality in this world: light colliding with darkness and vice versa. I like opposites, and I like playing with them, even in my lyrics and in my life.

There is something beautiful about it, and no, I was never afraid it would not work. I was super excited. When he finished his recordings and I listened to them, I was like, “Whaaaaaaaaa!” I was screaming at home because I was so happy!

As you have already mentioned, another notable duet on the album is obviously the one with Marco Hietala, which is going to make a lot of people very happy. When Marco left Nightwish, he explained how disillusioned he had become with the music industry. Is that something you have ever felt yourself? As an artist, do you sometimes find it frustrating to have to deal with this industry?

[She thinks] I have been frustrated. I have been… not disgusted, but frustrated, yes. I have been disappointed, of course, but my disappointment has never gone so far that I would say, “I do not want to do this anymore. I do not want to work in this industry,” or “I want to do something else with my life.” I have never been frustrated to the point of wanting to change direction completely. It has never gone that far.

But yes, it is a very demanding and difficult industry, constantly changing. And the further we go, with the future of AI and everything else, it is like… That is why I scream on this album; I scream from a deeply human place. There are many passages I could have rerecorded more perfectly, perhaps the following day, but I left them as they were simply because that was how they came out in that moment. It was important to capture that for the album.

I am not afraid of it. I am not perfect. I can be very far from perfection. I can only strive towards perfection, but I am not a machine, and I believe that no machine will ever be able to replace me or replace us. Our emotional intelligence is essential. What would become of the world if we destroyed it?

>“I can be very far from perfection. I can only strive towards perfection, but I am not a machine, and I believe that no machine will ever be able to replace me or replace us. Our emotional intelligence is essential.”

Since AI is essentially a “prediction machine” that follows the most common patterns when creating songs, it could indeed cause problems in genres such as pop or country, which are very formulaic. Do you think metal will be spared because of its extraordinary diversity and endless possibilities? I really do not think an AI could have imagined pairing you with Dani Filth, for example!

What metal has given me is the beauty of freedom. It is something incredible. As a metal artist, I feel that I do not need to follow the rules.

As a classical artist, I have to follow the rules in a certain way, but that is good for me too, because classical music and classical singing keep me in shape and push me to work more on my voice. It constantly reminds me that you always have to improve at what you do. There is always room for improvement. That is a very good thing, and I love it.

But metal, my songwriting and everything else—that is freedom. Pure freedom, where I do not have to follow the rules. And it is really interesting to see where we are heading. So I sincerely hope that metal music will receive the recognition it deserves.

We can hear you taking a deep breath between “At Sea” and “Blaze Forever,” as if you had just finished recording “At Sea” and decided, “Right, let’s go straight into the next one!” Obviously, recording does not work that way, which makes us think that this breath was deliberately placed there to connect the two tracks in some way.

When all the songs had been written, it was very important for me to start thinking about the album’s track order, as well as the production. Once the order was established, I moved on to the production and thought about the track listing and what happens between [the songs].

I also worked with the orchestral arranger on several tracks while keeping in mind what would come next. It is like an emotional roller coaster. All the songs have a very personal meaning to me.

In fact, this is the very first album for which I wrote all the lyrics on my own. I have always written lyrics for my albums. I have always been one of the lyricists, or the sole lyricist, but never for an entire album. The same applies to the music: for this album, I wrote three songs with one of my musicians, but everything else was written by me.

Everything is part of the journey. What you feel and what you hear on the album—everything is intentional. I thought about it very carefully.

On “The Eternal Return,” there is a passage where you vocalise over a theme that sounds very much like “The Swan” by Camille Saint-Saëns. Is it indeed “The Swan”? And if so, what is your relationship with that piece?

The Carnival of the Animals. It is one of the most famous cello pieces, and I have always loved the voice of the cello. I also collaborated with Apocalyptica on this album. I have always worked with a cellist, even at my concerts. There is cello on every one of my albums.

But yes, that piece… Since the song is very heavy, I needed to clear the slate and turn everything upside down, so I returned to classical music, which was my first love in music. I have always done that; all my albums contain a small fragment “stolen” from classical music.

But this time, I dared to sing a piece for cello. I simply recorded it that way. I was sitting in front of my computer, just as you are right now, [singing] in my studio without really thinking too much about it. And my classical singing teacher would say, “Tarja, you are not doing that correctly at all!!” And she would be absolutely right, because I was not thinking about the rules of classical singing at all when I did it.

It has nothing to do with proper classical technique, but it was exactly what my album needed. It conveys the emotion and carries the moment. That is more important than singing with perfect technique—or even trying to [laughs].

>“I have never really been understood, or perhaps I have simply always been different from other people, and I have had to live with that my entire life without caring too much about it, because my dreams have always been very strong and I have always followed them.”

Sayo Komada plays shamisen on “The Trace Outlives.” While writing this song, how did you arrive at the thought, “Do you know what is missing here? A highly specific traditional Japanese instrument!”? How did that happen? Because this is yet another thing that AI probably could never have predicted!

No! Once I have finished writing a song, when the structure is in place, I start writing the lyrics before moving on to the production and really thinking about who I should work with on that track. Because I have quite a large team of musicians working with me, and most of them have been collaborating with me for years. So it is both a pleasure and easy, because we know each other well.

For example, I have two guitarists, and I assign different songs to each of them because they have a different sound or style.

As for Sayo… Actually, I was on YouTube, searching for ancient Japanese instruments and musicians who actually play them, and I came across her. She does wonderful things on her own, and she is very young and incredibly talented.

We contacted her, and she… I can tell you, but I do not know, perhaps I should not say this out loud: she does not speak English. So that was where we needed AI to help us communicate! [Laughs] AI is an excellent tool, but it is only a tool. You can use it to help you learn and find the information you need. But to create music, you have to suffer, otherwise it is not real. I do not feel that with AI.

But yes, the song is very strongly inspired by Japan. The story is about the johatsu. In Japanese culture, there is a phenomenon called johatsu, referring to people who want to disappear from society, and there are organisations [that help them do it].

That had a huge impact on me while I was writing the lyrics; I thought, “I want to go in this direction. I want to write about this.” It is fascinating to see how different the world and its culture can be on the other side of the planet. Since the song is about Japan, I wanted to work with a Japanese artist. And that is the flavour she adds—she really brings a Japanese colour to the song with her instrument.

On this album, there is a song entitled “Anemoia,” a term defined as “experiencing intense nostalgia for a time or place one has never personally known or experienced.” It is also described as having “borrowed memories.” Is that something you have ever felt yourself?

Not particularly—not in such a clear-cut way. The entire idea behind anemoia is simply very inspiring. It can be about anything. It can be a person you loved and continue to love, or about living in the past in a certain way because you feel that you belong there.

It was very inspiring when I discovered [the concept]. Actually, I was looking for rarely used English words. That was how the whole process of writing the lyrics began. Then this word came up, I did my research and started from there. It was really inspiring to write about it.

And I live in Spain, in Andalusia. Music is a very important part of Andalusian culture, and flamenco guitar is one of its defining elements. You do not hear many flamenco guitars on metal albums, but once again, I like bringing in elements that are not often used, because I am not afraid to do it! I love it.

I found an artist ten minutes away from my home. He is incredible. Julián [Bedmar] recorded his guitar parts over a very basic piano demo that I had simply recorded at home. I sent him the demo, and he added his guitars. He is extraordinary.

That, too, is anemoia. Flamenco is a very old and important part of the culture of Spain and Andalusia, so I want to thank my local surroundings and the country that has given me a new home.

There are several passages in “Blaze Forever” where the lyrics are reversed. What was your intention behind that?

It is simply a sonic colour. I am almost certain that some of my fans are going to try to understand what I am saying! [Laughs]

The song is so… The lyrics are so… You have to find the strength… Many other songs on the album deal with a similar theme: you have to be strong enough to stand up to society when everyone sees you in a way that does not reflect how you actually feel.

In my case, for example, I have never really been understood, or perhaps I have simply always been different from other people, and I have had to live with that my entire life without caring too much about it, because my dreams have always been very strong and I have always followed them.

A kind of witch hunt inspired me to write this song. Those passages have a witchcraft-like atmosphere.