u/rere3131

In my previous posts, I argued that the Proto-Indo-Iranians were more closely associated with the Abashevo–Srubnaya–Alakul horizon. I also showed that these cultures were significantly influenced by Poltavka–Potapovka, raising the possibility that Pre-Proto-Indo-Iranian originated from Poltavka–Potapovka rather than from Fatyanovo.(https://www.reddit.com/r/IndoEuropean/s/PRKSnrIDkD) (https://www.reddit.com/r/IndoEuropean/s/WnuZQRQmnD)

If that is the case, then what language did the Fatyanovo people speak?

There are two main possibilities:

1. Like the other Corded Ware groups, they spoke an Indo-European language.
2. The more intriguing possibility is that they preserved a non-Indo-European R1a language. As many of you know, R1a was very likely not originally Proto-Indo-European, so some R1a populations may have retained their ancestral language.

How could this be possible?

Genetic evidence points to the Golubaya Krinitsa culture (Russia_Don_N_Mariupol.SG) as a potential candidate. This culture was predominantly R1a, and according to TheYTree site, it even included R1a-M198 and an R1a-M417 sample.

But is there any connection between Golubaya Krinitsa and Fatyanovo?

Interestingly, qpAdm models consistently show that Fatyanovo stands apart from other Corded Ware groups in terms of its Yamnaya and Golubaya Krinitsa ancestry. In addition, Fatyanovo appears to retain more material cultural traits associated with EHG-related traditions than other Corded Ware cultures.

This raises an interesting question:

Could the Fatyanovo culture have spoken a non-Indo-European R1a language?

What do you think

https://preview.redd.it/8pb752dbr7bh1.jpg?width=2880&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d970b675a9fed39d34decddbcc08f0497d2f23ec

In a post I shared recently, I wrote that Proto-Indo-Iranians are associated with the Abashevo–Srubnaya complex(https://www.reddit.com/r/IndoEuropean/comments/1twj4gw/protoindoiranian\_not\_sintashta\_but/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button) . Archaeological data shows that the Poltavka–Potapovka culture had a very clear and strong influence on the Abashevo–Srubnaya culture located in the northern forest-steppe zone. This raises the following possibility: Poltavka may have influenced them linguistically. In this case, it could be argued that Fatyanovo was not Pre-Proto-Indo-Iranian, and instead Poltavka–Potapovka might be.

There are also other pieces of evidence supporting this. For example, as far as I know, there is the Greco-Armenian-Aryan hypothesis. If those three languages share a common origin, then this could be considered another piece of evidence for a Poltavka-related unity.

What are your thoughts on this?

Recently, I shared a theory suggesting that the ancestors of the Proto-Indo-Iranians might actually be more closely linked to the Abashevo -> Srubnaya lineage rather than the Sintashta -> Fedorovo line. I also pointed out that the Sintashta and Abashevo cultures were likely hostile and in conflict with each other.(https://www.reddit.com/r/IndoEuropean/comments/1twj4gw/protoindoiranian\_not\_sintashta\_but/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button)

In the comments, someone asked me if the famous Aryan-Dasyu conflict in the Vedic texts could be a reflection of this ancient steppe rivalry. At first, I said that since the Dasyus are described as dark-skinned (krishna-tvach) in the texts, they fit the BMAC (Bactria-Margiana) or Indus Valley populations much better.

However, after looking into it a bit more, I saw that many scholars argue the term krishna-tvach might just be a spiritual or poetic metaphor. Furthermore, there are details in the texts mentioning that the Dasyus actually possessed horses, large herds of cows, and chariots—which doesn't really fit the BMAC/Indus farmers but perfectly matches rival steppe nomads.

Because of this, I'm completely unsure now. I don't have a deep expertise in Vedic texts, so I would love to hear the thoughts of those who are knowledgeable on this topic. What do you guys think?

So, for the past few years I've been studying the Z93 subclades and their associated cultures. From what I've seen, the Z93 lineages found among Indo-Iranians are connected to the Srubnaya lineage. Fedorovo and Cherkaskul on the other hand, seem to be linked only to the later Scythian peoples and the ancestors of populations descended from the Scythians. The ancestors of the Indo-Iranians appear to be associated with Srubnaya.

Lineages such as R-BY226207, R-YP413, and R-L657 also seem to be connected to Srubnaya. Furthermore, Abashevo and Sintashta were probably already hostile to one another. Sintashta most likely did not emerge from Abashevo; rather, both split directly from Fatyanovo into two separate branches: Abashevo and Sintashta. While Fedorovo and Cherkaskul descend from the Sintashta branch, Srubnaya and Alakul probably descend from the Abashevo branch.

Both the Iranians and the Aryans likely moved southward along the Caspian Sea route. Therefore, in my opinion, Sintashta and its successor, Fedorovo, do not have much to do with the actual ancestors of the Indo-Iranians.