u/scrybesilver

The more I think about it, the more I feel strongly about this.

To clarify, this is NOT me saying that Eggman shouldn't remain a villain. I do think that his sacrifice in movie 3 wasn't a case of him ultimately repenting for his evil deeds, but for simply accepting Stone as his genuine companion. I do believe that Eggman is STILL quite misanthropic, and still wishes to take over the world.

What I do mean is that Metal Sonic should be acting independently from Eggman for the vast majority of the movie; he should be the one calling the shots, and the main driver of the plot's action.

That means that I DO NOT want Metal to be an underling to Eggman for the majority of the movie; in fact, I don't want Eggman to be the one who sent Metal into the past to kill Sonic. I want Metal to be the one who wanted to go into the past because HE personally wants to kill Sonic. And I think this because of two reasons:

1. Metal being independent would be a better showcase for who he is and his potential power. If the goal is to give audiences a strong first impression of Metal and his depth as a character, I think you have to establish that he has his own free will, and have him acting on that free will early on. To me, it makes for a far more engaging storyline and could result in deeper themes as well, such as Eggman lamenting his own creation turning against him, or how Metal's cold hatred contrasts with Amy's passionate love.
2. It makes Eggman's role significantly different from past movies. In movies 2 and 3, he basically teams up with a new Mobian (Knuckles and Shadow), and uses them to achieve his evil goals. Having Metal as an underling to Eggman would be repeating this pattern, and having Metal betray Eggman at the climax of the story would be repeating the plot point from movie 3, where Gerald betrays Eggman. Therefore, I think having Metal already going rogue at the start of the movie would put Eggman in a much different spot than in previous movies, making his role here feel more unique.

I think you could even incorporate elements from Sonic Heroes by it revealed partway through that Eggman was actually imprisoned/out of power for the entire plot, and it was actually Metal impersonating him and being the one who's in control. It could serve as a genuine twist for both the characters and the audience that Eggman was not the main villain behind the evil plot this time, but the machine that they thought was unthinking and unfeeling.

And while I'm at it, here's a little pet theory based on some toy announcements a while back: There's supposedly a "Neo San Fran" toy pack planned for movie 4, which a lot of people have theorized to mean "Neo San Francisco," a futuristic version of San Francisco. A lot of people assume that this must be a city that Eggman took over, but I got another idea.

Given the word choice of "Neo," what if Neo Metal was the one actually running the place, and not Eggman? What if there's symbolism with Neo Metal taking over a version of San Francisco, a place that had a lot of importance to Sonic at one point, making it a parallel between two copies?

I noticed that all the posts that included pictures or even just discussion of the most recent Sonic 4 leak - the one with the renders of popcorn buckets/plushies/merch - were removed from this subreddit, so I thought I would try asking for clarification:

1. Has there been any sort of official debunking, or are they still possibly legitimate leaks?
2. Were they removed because of the risk of being held liable by Paramount/the company issuing takedowns of the images? Or were they removed for being potentially AI-generated? Or is it a bit of both?
3. How much are we allowed to discuss any of those leaks going forward? Are we allowed to post any pictures of them at all or should we not do so just to be safe?

Sorry for being technically off-topic, but I just wanted to know what the limits are going to be going forward. I hope you all don't mind.

This is an idea that's been floating in my brain for a bit, but recent discussions with u/Acrobatic_Banana_447 (which were about Shadow) and u/andrew-dino-lover (which were about Eggman and Stone) prompted me to do this write-up. So thanks to them for inspiring me!

My pitch is that Shadow should team up with Agent Stone in movie 4.

The idea of Shadow and Stone teaming up is not a new one, but I've mainly seen it pitched in the context of a Shadow solo movie/TV show, as a way to give him a human companion similar to how Tom was for Sonic and Wade was for Knuckles. However, I don't think I've seen a lot of people suggest that they could perhaps use this idea in movie 4. So here's how I think a rough outline of it could play out.

The Outline:

Shadow starts off the movie on his own. His survival is explained (I think it'll be the explosion teleporting him back to Earth while Eggman was teleported to the future), and he doesn't know what to do, because he was expecting to die in that explosion. Now since he's forsaken revenge, what's his purpose?

He wanders around, and eventually comes across Stone. Stone's not doing too great; he finally got acknowledgment and admiration from Eggman, even seeing him sacrifice himself for Stone's sake, and yet now he was gone. There's a bit of wariness between Shadow and Stone at first - Shadow did basically leave him to die, after all - but they're able to form some kind of camaraderie, mainly through their shared grief over the Robotniks they cared for.

This changes when word reaches them: Somehow, Eggman has returned. And there's also a bunch of robotic Sonics running around under his command?

So they set off to get to the bottom of this mystery: Stone is extremely frantic and hopeful at the prospect of being able to see his beloved Eggman again, and Shadow, besides being sympathetic to Stone, just wants to know what's going on. So while Team Sonic is dealing with Metal shenanigans, Shadow and Stone are off trying to find where Eggman is - which proves strangely hard. There's recordings of Eggman they're able to find, but he seems to be acting... Weird. There even seems to be a dummy version of Eggman they stumble across. Huh!

One thing leads to another, they probably fight some Metal Sonics on the way, and eventually the two find themselves somewhere (perhaps in the future, perhaps not), specifically some sort of prison. And in that prison... is Eggman, in the flesh and blood.

Eggman is stunned to see Stone once again, as Stone rushes to free him. The two embrace and lovingly stare into each other's eyes. Shadow suddenly realizes that he's become a third wheel.

Eggman explains what was actually happening: Stranded in the future, he created Metal Sonic both to help conquer the world and to assuage his loneliness; but the robot eventually rebelled against his creator, imprisoning him and seeking to kill the blue hedgehog he was modelled after to quell his rage and hatred. Now Metal was impersonating Eggman and ascending to his higher form of Neo Metal, gaining even more power.

Eggman expresses his desire to reign his creation in, back under his control, and to continue taking over the world, just like he always wanted, but this time with Stone at his side. Stone offers Shadow to join them in domination... But Shadow rejects them. Whatever his purpose was after giving up revenge, he knows it's not this. It's not what Maria would have wanted, and it's not what Shadow wants either.

This is where Stone and Shadow part ways, disappointed in each other. Eggman and Stone retreat to fight another day, and Shadow immediately sets to work trying to figure out how to stop Neo Metal.

This is when Shadow's storyline could converge with Team Sonic's. Shadow could either reveal himself as alive to Sonic and his friends, tell them what he found out about Eggman and Neo Metal, and work with them on a plan to defeat Metal, OR Shadow could go off on his own to a separate destination to stop an important aspect of Metal's plan, unknowingly at the same time as Team Sonic taking their final stand against Neo Metal. Either way, I think Shadow should be doing a separate mission while the other four heroes - Sonic, Amy, Tails, and Knuckles - work together to fight Neo directly.

The movie ends with Shadow on his own once again, but with perhaps more of a sense of where to go next. He shared in his grief with Stone, but as with his rejection of Gerald's senseless destruction, he has ultimately decided to reject Stone's and Eggman's path of villainy once and for all. Shadow's one step closer to becoming a committed hero, and the movie sets up the Shadow solo spinoff (which will be the 2028 event movie, trust me guys I'm not coping) where he will FINALLY find some new friends (hopefully).

Elaboration, I guess?

So.... Basically I just gave the Chaotix's plotline from Sonic Heroes to Shadow and Stone. But hear me out!

I've said before that I think Neo Metal will and SHOULD show up in movie 4. Because of that, I think it's entirely fair to include aspects of Heroes into the movie's plot, and since we're almost certainly not getting the Chaotix in this film, I figure we could maybe substitute that role with characters already in the movies.

Besides, Lee Majdoub is already confirmed to be coming back for movie 4, and so he needs something to do in the plot as well. I think Stone definitely has the motivation to want to find Eggman, so he would be a natural fit for the Heroes plotline to find Eggman and unravel the mystery. And it gives dramatic tension to Stone and Eggman's reuniting after being separated, thus honoring that moment from the end of movie 3.

I also think it would be a great opportunity for Eggman's character development as well: he's already stated that his love for machines is because they "do what they're told," and yet in this case, his greatest creation, Metal Sonic, goes rogue and betrays him. That it's a human, Stone, who is the most loyal to him rather than a machine, is a further inversion of his worldview and it solidifies his viewpoint of how Stone is the only human worth saving the world for. Thus going forward, perhaps Eggman starts to treat Stone as more of an equal rather than as a subordinate.

And this gives us the chance to see more of a relationship a lot of fans had thought would be fun, including me! Especially in the aftermath of movie 3, Shadow and Stone have quite a bit in common, and I think it would be a great opportunity to see the two of them have some bonding moments over loving members of the Robotnik family, and how to deal with their grief.

Besides, Shadow's favorite food is coffee, and Stone is a barista. It boggles my mind how they haven't seized on this golden opportunity for a character interaction.

But it would ultimately end on a sour note, because whatever their similarities, they do have different moral codes. Stone loves and believes in Eggman too much to truly become a good guy, and I think as long as Eggman is there, he will always take his side. Meanwhile, Shadow will go on to protect the world from threats, which means he will inevitably go against Eggman and Stone. I think it could serve as a subversion to the usual formula of pairing Sonic characters with humans, Sonic/Knuckles started off distant to Tom/Wade, but eventually grew to deeply trust them, while Shadow and Stone start off friendly, but ultimately break apart. And there could be more interesting things you could do with their dynamic in future installments!

Finally, I tried to design this idea to solve my concerns with Shadow's role in movie 4. I think it addresses where he left off from the end of movie 3, gives him a character arc, and gives him a decent role in the plot that doesn't make him feel superfluous. I do ultimately want this movie to still be focused on Amy becoming part of Team Sonic, which is why I separate Shadow either a lot or entirely from the rest of the hero gang. But I think hopefully this idea still gives him a lot to do even without having to interact with Sonic & co., by pairing him up with Stone.

Anyways, uh... I just spat this out in the span of two hours. Feel free to tell me if you liked it or hated it or what you would do differently!

I've been seeing some debate over whether or not we would see Neo Metal or Metal Overlord in movie 4, given that we know Metal Sonic is going to be there, and he's usually a recurring villain in the games.

Some argue that they shouldn't try to fit all of Metal's major forms in a single movie appearance, and instead should be spread across different films; the most popular theory I've seen is that movie 4 should be mostly CD based, and then the next movie could take more from Sonic Heroes and feature Neo Metal/Metal Overlord.

Now, I am amenable to the idea that we could see Metal Overlord in a later movie than the fourth one. But personally, I feel like it makes the most logical and narrative sense to have Neo Metal show up in movie 4 instead of a later installment.

1. Neo Metal is generally seen as the form in which Metal that can actually talk, as opposed to his base form being silent. While it's definitely possible to make a compelling villain who's completely silent, it would make it easier for the movie to have Metal express himself or convey his own goals if he could speak. Thus, Neo Metal could be a way to justify him speaking in the movie when he usually doesn't in the games.
2. Based on the post-credit scene, base Metal Sonic and his army of clones will be the primary villains our heroes will be fighting against throughout the duration of the movie. So then when it comes to questions of this movie's finale, there's expected to be an escalation of the threats or stakes to help distinguish the climatic battle from all the others. Having Metal turn into Neo Metal (or Metal Overlord) would feel like an appropriate escalation from the previous fights and provide a new opponent for our heroes to overcome.
3. Neo Metal would help him stand as his own independent villain. Metal is typically seen or treated as Eggman's pawn or minion that mostly just does his master's bidding, but Sonic Heroes was special because it features Metal acting on his own. If movie 4 wants to go the same route of having Metal acting on his own volition and displaying his own specific reasons for hunting down Sonic and taking over the world, then having him turn into Neo Metal would be the best way to illustrate that.

The rest of my personal thinking is perhaps a little bit subjective, but personally I'm not sure there's enough material to stretch out Metal's transformations over multiple movies. I could only go as far as to say that maybe Metal Overlord could be saved for a second movie, but personally I feel like it would be harder to build a movie around base Metal mostly acting as Eggman's lackey without that extra transformation into Neo Metal.

And for the most part, I'm more excited at the possibility of seeing other villains like Mephiles or Chaos in these movies then yet another appearance of Metal as a main villain. Obviously this is just my opinion, but I feel like I wouldn't be the only one who feels like this, and it could very well be a sentiment shared by general audiences.

I'm not necessarily saying that Metal should only appear in movie 4 and then never again; I've personally liked the idea of Metal becoming a recurring minor antagonist akin to Eggman himself. And I COULD see a second movie where Metal turns into Metal Overlord. But I feel like that hypothetical second movie would be more effective if Metal was missing for a while, then if it happened in the next movie immediately afterwards. Because of that, I would argue that even if you wanted to do a second movie with Metal as the main villain, it shouldn't be movie 5.

So basically that's why I think we have a near certain chance of getting Neo Metal in movie 4, and a fair shot at Metal Overlord as well, frankly; I think it makes for a more cohesive movie overall, and it makes the most of his big appearance rather than stretching it out over multiple installments.

Alternative title: IF they do end up going with the "Amy is from the future" route, how are they going to handle Silver?

I've been saying since almost the beginning of the movie 4 waiting period that I have NOT liked the idea of Amy being a time traveller who originated from the future. I'm not the only one who's said it, and there's various reasons people have for why they don't like it, but probably the biggest reason for me is that it's literally Silver's backstory; to take one of his most defining features as a character and apply it to an entirely different character gives me a bad taste in my mouth, frankly.

Still, it's a popular theory, helped out by the fact that certain leakers have alledged that it'll be a plot point in movie 4. So... This basically serves as my attempt at coping, I guess. If we DO get Amy from the future, would she then have some kind of connection to Silver?

I've seen a couple of theories concerning the idea that Amy and Silver could have originated from the same future, or that they somehow know each other. I've seen the idea floated that they could have been friends, fellow rebels fighting against the Eggman Empire, or even going the Mario Galaxy movie route and making them siblings (IYKYK).

I've also seen suggestions about how Amy travelling back in time to change the future could lead to Silver doing the same in the next movie or later down the line, whether it's because she accidentally fucked something up or simply didn't solve the problem. And then there's the idea that Amy time-traveling would mean she would just wholly replace Silver in this universe. But given that Jeff Fowler has outright acknowledged Silver and how many people want him to be in the movies, I would feel like it's unlikely that he would then just have Amy take over his role.

Something else I've been thinking of: There's already a connection with Amy and Silver in the games. Specifically, in 06, Amy is the first person in the past that Silver runs into. They proceed to then help each look for (unknowingly) the same person, and when Silver tries to kill Sonic, Amy is the one who stops him and gives him pause on his murder quest. It was yet another instance of Amy aiding in a villain's redemption; something which she tends to do in the games. Since she wasn't present for Shadow's redemption, could her interactions with Silver maybe be used to highlight that aspect of Amy's character? Could their relationship end up being developed in a way that the games haven't been able to do?

And the idea of Amy and Silver having some sort of connection doesn't just need to be present in the situation where Amy is from the future; the route that I advocate for, that Amy is from the present and using tarot cards, still has her looking into the future, the same kind of future that Silver is attempting to save. It feels like there's something interesting you could do there, where Amy is attempting to read the future and perhaps divine her destiny, while Silver seems to actively change it to something better.

So.... TL;DR: Amy and Silver should be friends in the SCU. I didn't think that was the conclusion I was building up to, but I guess it is!

Some of this I've recycled from a previous post of mine, but I've decided I wanted to focus on this particular aspect in a post of its own in order to generate more discussion about it. Hope that's okay with everyone.

So this is going off the assumption that the 2028 event movie will be a spinoff of some sort (most likely for Shadow) and will NOT be Sonic 5 or a second-parter to Sonic 4.

The gap between this movie and movie 4 is about 21 months. For movie 4 specifically, filming started March 2, 2026, about 12 months or so before it's slated to be released, and pre-production presumably started much earlier. The reason I bring this up is to talk about the possibility that the event movie might need to have its production start during the production of movie 4 if it wishes to hit its 2028 release date. Not to mention that Paramount would likely want to immediately greenlight Sonic the Hedgehog 5 if movie 4 is a hit, and would probably want Fowler to direct THAT movie instead of the 2028 one.

So then, this might indicate that the event film will have to handled by a different crew than the one that works on the mainline movies. Ergo, we might be getting different writers and a different director. This wouldn't be the first time we'd get a SCU project overseen by someone else other than Fowler, since we have the Knuckles TV show. But it WOULD be the first movie to have a different director. I presume he'll still be somewhat involved, because even the Knuckles show still had Fowler as a producer and even had him direct one of the episodes.

It's certainly not impossible that we could get Fowler back as director if it's supposed to be a Shadow spinoff, since Shadow is his favorite character, and for the sake of consistency with the other movies, but given that the gap between movie 4 and the event movie appears to be the shortest so far (little under two years), I could see the event movie having to be directed by someone else. Or even having movie 5 end up with a different director if Fowler decides he wants to do the 2028 film.

Though again, all of this speculation is probably moot if it turns out that the 2028 film is supposed to be Sonic 5 - in that case, it would be much easier to get Fowler back as director. So feel free to tell me what you think - maybe even share what other directors or writers you think would work for the 2028 film.