u/shawn_robott

Beginning of the fight:

(Slide 2 and 3)

After Rayleigh saves Zoro, Kizaru makes an interesting statement that a lot of people tend to take out of context. He essentially says that capturing Rayleigh would require proper preparations. Many people interpret this as Kizaru admitting that he is inferior to Rayleigh in a direct confrontation and would therefore need additional assistance to defeat him. However, that is completely disingenuous interpretation when you actually consider how their fight plays out.

The statement is more plausibly referring to the logistical and operational preparations the Navy would need to successfully capture and contain someone like Rayleigh. The preparations could involve deploying stronger battleships, additional personnel, or specialized restraints capable of preventing him from escaping after being captured.

We can also look at everything that went into Ace’s execution, which would be fairly analogous to what the Navy would need to account for with Rayleigh, especially considering that Rayleigh’s status as Roger’s right-hand man arguably makes him an even more significant figure from the Navy’s perspective.

Kizaru then demonstrates that he isn’t particularly interested in engaging Rayleigh directly, instead using Yata Mirror to bypass him and continue onward. Rayleigh notices this, however, and intercepts the beam of light, preventing Kizaru from proceeding. In the process, Rayleigh manages to cut Kizaru’s cheek, but this feat doesn’t carry much weight, considering Kizaru was neither focused on Rayleigh nor actively attempting to defend against the attack. Kizaru was more so just underestimating Rayleigh's speed here

The fight:

(Slide 4 and 5)

Rayleigh and Kizaru then begin clashing, with both of them maintaining a rather sarcastic tone throughout the exchange. Kizaru’s remark about the situation being “terrible” shouldn’t necessarily be interpreted as him being genuinely troubled or pressured by Rayleigh. It’s more consistent with Kizaru’s established sarcastic personality. He frequently describes situations or opponents as “scary,” including the Supernovas, the Whitebeard Pirates, and even pre-timeskip Luffy.

Sentomaru then remarks that he has never seen anyone capable of stopping Kizaru before. This statement is often taken out of context, but the context makes it fairly clear that Sentomaru is referring specifically to Rayleigh intercepting Kizaru’s Yata Mirror and preventing him from continuing his movement. In other words, Sentomaru is commenting on Rayleigh being the first person he has seen successfully stop Kizaru’s movements in this manner.

However, this still shouldn’t necessarily be used to scale Rayleigh to Kizaru’s max speed. Kizaru wasn’t utilizing any acceleration here, so Rayleigh stopping the Yata Mirror doesn’t inherently demonstrate that he could react to Kizaru at his absolute peak speed.

(Slide 6 and 7) Not intentional btw 🤦

Kizaru then makes an interesting remark about his subordinates, emphasizing how strong they are. At this point, Sentomaru alone was sufficient to handle the entire Straw Hat Pirates, and once the Pacifista are factored in, the matchup becomes a complete wash

This is important because Kizaru is fully aware that his subordinates are more than capable of dealing with the Straw Hats. As a result, he has little to no external incentive to force his way past Rayleigh himself. There is no immediate necessity for Kizaru to go all-out when his subordinates are already capable of accomplishing the objective, which provides additional context for the relatively casual manner in which he engages Rayleigh.

This is also consistent with the Vivre Card’s characterization of Kizaru, which describes him as someone who consistently completes his missions with a notably nonchalant attitude. His portrayal during the encounter further supports this, as he primarily restricts himself to using his sword rather than utilizing the full extent of his Devil Fruit arsenal, such as his laser eyes (would be extremely useful here), acceleration, clones, light-speed kicks, or ranged laser attacks.

Vivrecard (slide 14)

いつも飄々と任務をこなす

Always carries out missions with a nonchalant air.

(Slide 8)

In contrast, we see Rayleigh explicitly thinking about how he wishes he could get past Kizaru, while also being visibly shown sweating during the confrontation. This establishes a clear distinction in their respective motivations. Unlike Kizaru, Rayleigh has an immediate external objective that requires him to get past his opponent, giving him a genuine reason to take the confrontation seriously.

The fact that Rayleigh is visibly exerting himself while Kizaru continues to maintain his characteristically nonchalant demeanor can therefore be interpreted as evidence of a difference in effort. Rayleigh appears to be expending significantly more energy in the exchange, whereas Kizaru remains comparatively casual.

Under this interpretation, the scene supports the argument that a casual Kizaru is capable of holding off a Rayleigh who is taking the confrontation seriously and actively trying to break past him.

"Rayleigh is sweating, because his stamina is shit"

(Slide 12)

There really isn’t much substantive evidence for this misconception beyond Rayleigh being old and the usual “vibe scaling.” Rayleigh’s remarks about his age can just as reasonably be interpreted as referring to his overall combat ability rather than specifically to his stamina.

In fact, we have legitimate reasons to believe that Rayleigh still possesses exceptional stamina. He was able to swim through the Calm Belt with relative ease while simultaneously dealing with Sea Kings along the way, all during a storm.

Rayleigh’s own dialogue also suggests that this wasn’t necessarily his first time doing something like this. The way he talks about it implies that his boat sinking is something that has happened on multiple occasions, potentially making swimming through the Calm Belt a somewhat routine occurrence for him.

(Slide 9)

We then see Rayleigh and Kizaru clash again, with Rayleigh visibly huffing and puffing. This further reinforces the apparent difference in exertion between the two, as Rayleigh is once again shown displaying visible signs of fatigue while Kizaru continues to maintain his relatively nonchalant demeanor.

Rayleigh also remarks that something extraordinary is happening around them, which is clearly referring to Kuma sending the Straw Hats away. Neither Rayleigh nor Kizaru actually knew what Kuma was doing at the time. However, given that Kizaru believed Kuma was still an ally and even considered him as a friend, it’s reasonable to infer that Kizaru may have assumed Kuma was sending the Straw Hats to their deaths or potentially to Impel Down.

Kizaru then remarks that Rayleigh is making himself look bad, but once again, this shouldn’t necessarily be interpreted as a genuine assessment of Rayleigh’s performance. It is consistent with Kizaru’s tendency to use sarcasm and backhanded compliments during combat. We see a similar pattern when he claims that Marco is “hurting” him, despite Marco himself clarifying that this wasn’t actually the case. Kizaru also acknowledges Snakeman Luffy’s power, only to immediately one-shot him afterward.

We then see Kuma intervene in their confrontation, with Kizaru initially being confused about what he is doing. By the time Kizaru realizes that Kuma is actually assisting the Straw Hats, it is already too late, as Kuma has already sent almost all of them away.

This effectively brings their confrontation to an end, since Kizaru can no longer accomplish his primary objective of capturing the Straw Hats. More importantly, Rayleigh himself was never Kizaru’s actual target, so there was no real reason for Kizaru to continue pursuing or escalating the fight once the Straw Hats had been successfully dispersed.

Addressing misconceptions:

(Slide 10, 11 and 13)

A common argument is that Kizaru was supposedly “venting his rage” after failing to capture Luffy and being unable to get past Rayleigh. However, this interpretation becomes difficult to reconcile with Kizaru’s actual characterization and behavior throughout the series.

Kizaru is never explicitly portrayed as being angry or particularly frustrated by the Straw Hats’ escape. In fact, becoming genuinely enraged over their escape would be rather inconsistent with his established personality, since it literally took killing his best friend to spark any actual emotion on him. Even during Marineford, where the stakes were significantly higher, Kizaru remained remarkably casual and continued to troll around despite having opportunities to seriously injure or kill Luffy. He even went as far as essentially giving Luffy unsolicited life advice rather than simply finishing him when he had the opportunity.

This strongly suggests that Kizaru was never particularly emotionally invested in whether the Straw Hats escaped or not. Therefore, interpreting his later “venting” as genuine anger over failing his mission largely relies on the interpretation of some fodder marine than Kizaru’s actual portrayal.

An alternative interpretation is that Kizaru was expressing sadness or frustration over Kuma’s betrayal instead. This would actually fit the context much better, considering Kizaru and Kuma have an established personal relationship, with Kizaru even expressing happiness when Kuma originally joined the Marines.

FINAL VERDICT: Casual Kizaru who barely utilized his kit was fighting evenly with Rayleigh who was going all out

Whenever people debate who the weakest top tier is, Greenbull is almost always one of the first names brought up. I'm here to explain why that take couldn't be further from the truth. Not only is Greenbull nowhere near the weakest top tier, but there's a strong case to be made that he's actually one of the strongest

The funny thing is, I've actually already done a full analysis on Greenbull's strength way before, which you can check out through the link below.

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling0/s/IM59pzsLPK

This time, though, I'll be scaling him from a completely different angle, using different arguments to push his placement even higher than I did in my previous analysis.

1. Greenbull in Wano

The first point I want to cover and one that applies to every Admiral is Greenbull's statement that he would lose face if he were defeated by "mere commanders." (Slide 2) The implication here is that no commander should be capable of surpassing an Admiral in overall combat ability, with the obvious exception of Kuzan, who is a former Admiral himself.

So it would follow, Greenbull should scale above virtually every active commander, including characters like Ben Beckman, Shiryu, and Marco.

Greenbull vs Kaido

(Slide 3)

A lot of people like to take this statement out of context and use it as evidence that Greenbull believed Kaido would defeat him. However, that's not what Greenbull actually says. He explicitly states that it's Kaido's rule that keeps invaders away from Wano. That statement encompasses not only Kaido himself but also the entirety of the Beast Pirates and the military force backing his regime.

More importantly, this logic isn't unique to Kaido. It naturally extends to every Yonko, as each Emperor maintains a powerful crew and territorial influence that deters outside forces from invading their territory.

It's also worth noting that Greenbull is a relatively new Admiral and has no reason to possess any special insight into Kaido beyond his public reputation. To the world at large, Kaido is known as the "Strongest Creature," so it's only natural that Greenbull would view him through that lens. But that title is based on in-universe reputation rather than objective fact. The same applies to the widely accepted belief that Kaido defeated Oden fairly a narrative the world accepts despite readers knowing that isn't what actually happened.

Yamato's statement

(Slide 4 and 5) An interesting detail regarding Greenbull's portrayal is Yamato's statement that it was Shanks' overwhelming Haki that ultimately drove Greenbull away and saved Wano. This is significant because Shanks only chose to intervene right as Greenbull was preparing to get serious.

The timing of Shanks' intervention is especially important. Throughout the series, Shanks rarely gets involved unless he believes it's absolutely necessary to prevent a major disaster. From that perspective, his decision to force Greenbull out of Wano suggests that he considered Greenbull a legitimate threat to the alliance if left unchecked, which could've resulted in the death of the whole alliance

We've seen this pattern before. When Kid launched his attack on Shanks' fleet, Shanks used Future Sight to witness the destruction Kid was about to cause. Realizing that his allies wouldn't survive, Shanks immediately stepped in and eliminated the threat himself. Likewise, in Wano, Shanks' intervention can be interpreted as a response to a situation he believed would end disastrously if Greenbull were allowed to continue.

This at the very least should cement Greenbull to be a threat that could content with the entire alliance which includes the likes of Luffy, Kid, Law, Yamato, Zoro, Sanji and Scabbards

Now you may ask "why wasn't Luffy worried?"

(Slide 6)

There are several reasons to believe that Luffy's ability to discern strength has a limited effective range. A good example is his encounter with Imu. Luffy wasn't able to perceive Imu's true level of power until Imu released an immense burst of Conqueror's Haki that reached his location. Only after sensing that overwhelming Haki did Luffy realize just how powerful Imu actually was.

Applying that same logic to Wano, it's entirely possible that Luffy had no accurate understanding of Greenbull's true strength. Since he was observing the situation from a considerable distance, there would have been no reason to assume he could fully assess Greenbull's power.

Addressing another misconception

"B-but Momonosuke COOKED Greenbull one shot 💔"

(Slide 4)

Not only did Momonosuke fail to inflict ANY damage, but we actually see Greenbull evade the attack in a way that highlights just how broken his Devil Fruit really is. Rather than tanking the blast, Greenbull simply abandoned his forest body and regenerated from another sprout elsewhere, emerging completely unharmed.

This ability gives Greenbull pretty much an immunity to all ranged attacks. As long as he can discard his current body and regenerate from a different sprout.

Elbaph scaling

(Slide 7)

Another interesting statement comes from the Gorosei, who state that they should dispatch two Navy Headquarters Admirals to deal with the situation on Elbaph. That operation would involve confronting opponents such as Loki, Luffy, the Straw Hat Pirates, and the Giants.

Now the reason this is two admirals is, because the Gorosei specifically refer to Navy Headquarters Admirals, which narrows the candidates down to Greenbull and Kizaru. As far as we know, Fujitora remains banned from returning to Navy Headquarters removing him as one of the admirals being dispatched

If the Gorosei genuinely believe that two Admirals are sufficient to eliminate everyone on Elbaph, it follows that each Admiral would be expected to handle an enormous share of the opposition. A reasonable distribution would be for one Admiral to engage Loki while the other deals with Luffy, the Straw Hats, and the remaining forces, or vice versa.

"But how does the Gorosei know Loki is the one who killed Harald"

(Slide 8)

Shamrock, who serves directly under the Gorosei, was already made aware of this information before being recalled to the Holy Land. Given the established chain of command, it's only reasonable to assume he would report this development to his superiors upon returning.

(Slide 9)

This would also explain why Imu was still searching for the person responsible for Harald's death in Elbaph even after fourteen years. The most likely explanation is that Shamrock gave the Gorosei and by extension, Imu this piece of information that the culprit still lies within Elbaph

At that point, you might ask: if Imu already believed Loki was responsible, why continue the search?

Well as the world's supreme ruler, Imu has every reason to personally verify intelligence before treating it as fact. Based on the information Shamrock provided, Imu may have viewed Loki as the primary suspect, but that doesn't mean he won't make it certain himself.

So yes everything points towards the Gorosei being aware of the situation here

(Slide 10 and 11)

The last point I want to bring up is how Oda often uses the Gorosei in a Doylist way. Rather than simply expressing their in-universe opinions, they're frequently used as a narrative device to convey reliable information directly to the audience. We've seen this with their explanation of the true nature of the Nika Fruit, as well as their commentary on the Blackbeard Pirates, where they state that only the remaining Emperors would be capable of stopping them.

Now some of you may point to their remarks about Marco as a counterexample, but there's an important distinction to make. When discussing Marco and the remnants of the Whitebeard Pirates, the Gorosei deliberately use the word "maybe." That wording introduces an explicit level of uncertainty, making it clear that they aren't presenting a definitive conclusion. As a result, Marco and the Whitebeard remnants getting bodied doesn't mean the Gorosei were wrong, it simply means one of several acknowledged possibilities came to pass.

This distinction is important because it reinforces my point. When the Gorosei make tentative statements, Oda intentionally signals that uncertainty through their wording. By contrast, when they make definitive assertions, such as stating that two Navy Headquarters Admirals would be sufficient to deal with Elbaph, those statements are far more likely to be functioning as doylistic rather than them being asserted via watsonian's view like the Marco statement

FINAL VERDICT: Greenbull>=Loki>Luffy>Laido

So yes Greenbull is not even close to being the weakest top tier, that title belongs to Pig meme and then Laido comes in as the second most fodder top tier

Thank you for reading (if you did) ♥️

All he did was intercept an attack meant for an extremely fatigued Luffy, meaning we have a reason to believe Imu wouldn't use his full power/speed.

Not only that, but it's already been demonstrated how Gaban and Gunko are speed relatives as well

Name: Araki Masakage

Title: The first blade

Affiliation: Erased/former rival of Ryuma

Backstory: Araki Masakage was regarded as one of the most formidable swordsmen in history. Early in his travels, he happened to cross paths with Ryuma in a tavern. The encounter quickly escalated into a duel, with both warriors matching each other blow for blow and proving evenly matched. This took place during their respective journeys, after the period of Ryuma's Monster episode

Ryuma and Araki introduced one another to their respective blades. Ryuma carried Shusui, a great black blade, while Araki wielded Shiranui, an equally formidable black blade of his own. Both of these are among the strongest of black blades.

(Shiranui is now wielded by one of the current Admirals, though even he remains unaware of the blade’s true legacy. Its history and the truth surrounding its original owner was deliberately concealed by the World Government)

As the two exchanged stories of their past, it was revealed that Araki had forged his black blade even before Ryuma, forging it through countless battles against powerful foes in much the same manner.

This reveal only intensified the rivalry between them. Among swordsmen, forging and mastering a black blades are viewed as the ultimate testament to their ability as a swordsman.

**Raw Japanese Kanji-**

**Bolded Red Text:**

全ての刀剣は"黒刀"に成り得る

**Bottom Caption:**

ピーカとの死闘の直後、ソロの脳裏を過ぎったミホークの言葉･･･。「全ての刀剣は"黒刀"に成り得る」。後にワノ国で対峙した牛鬼丸は、秋水はリューマの歴戦にて"黒刀"に成ったと述べた。黒刀を作り上げるのは刀匠ではなく剣士の力量、とでもいうのだろうか。

**Translated-**

**Bolded Red Text:**

All swords can become "black blades."

**Bottom Caption:**

Right after the death match with Pica, Mihawk's words crossed Zoro's mind... "All swords can become 'black blades'." Later, Gyukimaru, whom he faced in Wano Country, stated that Shusui became a "black blade" through Ryuma's many battles. Could it be said that creating a black blade depends on the swordsman's ability rather than the swordsmith? (OP Magazine 10).

Though Ryuma and Araki began as rivals, their countless battles side by side forged a deep friendship. Together, they defended Wano from pirates, corrupt rulers, and even of the World Nobles. Yet while Ryuma found purpose in safeguarding Wano, Araki grew increasingly dissatisfied with simply repelling threats at its borders.

Araki believed that true peace could never be achieved by waiting for enemies to arrive. In his eyes, the greatest protection for Wano was to strike at the source of the problem itself.

With that conviction, he entrusted Wano's future to Ryuma and set sail alone. His campaign against the World Government soon became the stuff of legend. Across the seas, he clashed with some of their strongest forces, leaving a trail of shattered strongholds and fallen elites in his wake.

But even a monster of Araki's caliber could not wage war against the entire world forever. Eventually, he was overwhelmed by the Government's vast military might and disappeared from history.

Fearing the impact his story could have on future generations, Imu ordered every trace of Araki Masakage to be erased. Records were destroyed, witnesses silenced, and his achievements buried beneath centuries of censorship. The truth of Shiranui, the blade he forged into the world's first black blade, was hidden alongside his name. In time, Araki became less than a forgotten hero, he became a man who, officially, never existed at all.

Devil fruit: None

Haki: Araki is a master of all forms of advanced haki. Araki and Ryuma once performed a clash, that split the heavens and blew away everyone within 50 kilometer radius

Fighting style: Swordsmanship

Narrative: Araki's narrative importance lies in the fact, that he was the greatest rival of the Sword God, Ryuma, and the first man in history to forge a black blade

Portrayal: Araki is portrayed as Ryuma's equal and a man who was capable of directly challenging the world government through his swordsmanship

Statements: Araki was stated to have forged and mastered Shiranui, a black blade that remains among the strongest even in the present day. Ryuma himself acknowledged that Araki possessed even greater potential than he did, noting that Araki's swordsmanship was characterized by attacks that were slightly faster than his own.

Feats: Araki fought Ryuma on multiple occasions, with each battle ending in a standstill. The force of their clashes was said to be felt across several nearby islands. Throughout his journey, Araki defeated numerous powerful opponents affiliated with the World Government and eventually forged Shiranui into a black blade through countless battles, mastering it to its fullest potential.

Conclusion: So essentially the point of this post was to create a character who is stronger than Shanks and weaker than Mihawk.

Alright, so yesterday I dropped a few hot takes and, judging by the reception, they didn't exactly land for the majority. Which is fair enough, considering how many casual readers are in this sub. Still, I'll try to break down my reasoning as clearly as possible.

Also I want to preface, that can't post any scans in the post. So if you're skeptical about any specific claim, feat interpretation, statement scaling, or whatever else I bring up, just ask for the panels and I'll post them in the comments.

10%

So my original claim was that the Admirals have essentially zero anti-feats. The main examples people bring up are Akainu vs Whitebeard, Kuzan vs Garp, Akainu vs Kuma, and Greenbull vs Shanks, so I'll address each of them.

Akainu vs Whitebeard

Whitebeard landed a clean off-guard hit on Akainu and only managed to inflict moderate damage. Considering that off-guard attacks in One Piece are consistently portrayed as significantly more effective than normal attacks and can even result in one-shots, this is more so an anti-feat for Whitebeard than it is for Akainu.

Kuzan vs Garp

Kuzan was blatantly mentally nerfed throughout the fight, so treating that performance as representative of his full power makes no sense. Even then, most of the supposed "blitzes" people cite occurred when Kuzan was hesitating.

Akainu vs Kuma

I don't really understand why this gets brought up as an anti-feat. Akainu literally punched straight through Kuma and then Kuma escaped because he can LITERALLY teleport

Greenbull vs Shanks

First, Shanks is stronger than Greenbull, so being affected by a superior character's Haki isn't inherently an anti-feat. Second, the Haki burst was delivered from outside Greenbull's awareness, making it off-guard. Finally, Greenbull's reaction is completely consistent with his established personality.

20%

Well, first off, it's outright stated that Big Mom was going all out. Beyond that, the fight itself repeatedly reinforces the point. We get multiple statements from Big Mom showing that she's taking Kid and Law seriously. She specifically acknowledges that Law's abilities are dangerous, and at several points she's actively trying to get him off of her because of how much of a threat his attacks pose.

A lot of the "Big Mom was nerfed" arguments end up relying on assumptions that aren't actually supported by the manga, so any arguments in favor of that position would just immediately fail on parsimony.

Also, my friend Gen_shot made a really good post breaking this down in more detail, so I'd recommend checking that out as well.

https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling0/comments/1tbbd73/big\_mom\_holding\_backplot\_nerfed\_argument/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button

30%

Well this is just my personal opinion, but I believe Blackbeard has been established as Luffy's main villain LONG AGO before Imu was even introduced. I believe Marineford also made this clear.

40%

I'd recommend reading the 50% before this one, although honestly the conclusion should be pretty obvious regardless.

Loki defeated and was heavily implied to be superior to HK Harald. Harald himself scales to Xebec, who was explicitly stated to be Roger's strongest enemy.

Even if you do choose to disregard the "strongest enemy" statement, the argument doesn't really fall apart. HK Harald was still portrayed as being above the old generation through Gaban's comments, as Gaban believed Harald possessed enough power to bring about total destruction on a global scale.

50%

So Harald and Xebec are portrayed as equals in their base forms, as shown by their inconclusive clash prior to God Valley.

After that, both characters receive amps originating from Imu. Harald gains DSP while Xebec receives Domi Reversi. Since both powers stem from the same source and appear to provide similar benefits, namely enhanced physical stats and regeneration, we can use inductive reasoning to compare them.

From what we've seen, DSP's regenerative capabilities are significantly more impressive than Domi Reversi's. Given that both abilities function as power-ups of the same general type, it would be strange for DSP to massively outperform Domi Reversi in regeneration while simultaneously providing a worse or equal physical amp. The more reasonable conclusion is that DSP is simply the superior enhancement overall, which would mean it grants a greater strength boost as well.

There's also the fact that Imu seemingly implied a hierarchy among these powers in a recent chapter, with the portrayal suggesting:

Omen > DSP > Domi Reversi

60%

So this one is pretty simple. Sanji wins because he massively outclasses Zoro in speed.

The only connective scaling between the two comes through Marco. Marco was able to overwhelm King in terms of speed, and King and Zoro were portrayed as relatively comparable in speed throughout their fight. On the other hand, while Marco also had the upper hand against Queen, he was never portrayed as being tiers faster than him. Queen could still track his movements and never made any remarks suggesting Marco's speed was beyond his perception.

Sanji's performance is entirely different. During his fight with Queen, he moved so fast that Queen completely lost track of him. Sanji effectively perception-blitzed him to the point of appearing invisible, and Queen explicitly commented on how absurdly fast he was moving.

If Queen could still perceive Marco, but couldn't even perceive Sanji, then Sanji's speed is operating on an entirely different level from the characters being linked through Marco's scaling.

As for AP, Sanji has more than enough to put Zoro down. His attacks launched Queen completely off Onigashima, and this is the same Queen who could tank King's air slashes, whereas the same slashes were shown overpowering Zoro during their fight.

So essentially Sanji just blitzes

70%

Okay, so in the Harald flashback these two were verbatim stated as equals, and I mean equals in their base forms. The only reason Shamrock held an advantage at the time was because of his Deep Sea Contract.

That reason this is important is, because If Shamrock and Shanks started out relative and remained relative throughout their whole lives, then they must have been growing at roughly the same rate. In other words, their portrayal suggests comparable talent and potential.

I also want to preface something that gets overlooked a lot. It's heavily implied that Shanks had already begun dueling Mihawk by this point. Harald was able to recognize Shanks based on his notoriety, and the Ace novels state that Shanks originally built much of that notoriety through his legendary duels with Mihawk.

This is important because one of the main arguments for Shanks pulling ahead is that his extreme-diff battles and Haki blooms accelerated his growth. But if Shamrock remained relative despite that, then the logical implication is that Shamrock was also experiencing similar growth, whether through his own extreme-diff fights, intensive training, or both.

So when people argue that current Shanks is stronger than current Shamrock, they're effectively forced into arguing that Shamrock's growth stagnated while Shanks continued progressing. The problem is that there's very little evidence for that position.

In fact, the available evidence points in the opposite direction. Since the flashback, Shamrock has acquired Cerberus and has already demonstrated mastery over it. That alone indicates continued development.

So essentially Shamrock not only has an equal growth trajectory to Shanks, but also retains both arms while possessing DSP and Cerberus on top of that. Given the information we currently have, I don't see a convincing argument for him being weaker than Shanks.

80%

So, Kaido explicitly considers base Rocks a worthy opponent, meaning they are highly relative low-balled. The issue is that base Rocks still scales noticeably below HK Harald, who in turn got completely overwhelmed by Loki.

Then we have the Gorosei's statement regarding Elbaph. The Gorosei stated that two Admirals would be sufficient for the situation there. And this isn't some random in-universe speculation. Oda consistently uses the Gorosei as linguistic devices to communicate power dynamics and narrative scaling to the audience.

The implication being conveyed is how two Admirals are considered enough to deal with Loki, Luffy, the Straw Hats, and the Giant Pirates collectively.

We've seen this function before. The Gorosei were used to communicate the significance of the Nika Fruit and world balance regarding Shanks and WB. Likewise, when discussing the Blackbeard Pirates, they made definitive assessments regarding how powerful Blackbeard had become and which factions could realistically challenge him. Those statements were clearly intended as authorial guidance rather than character speculation.

The distinction comes down to how the statements are framed.

When Oda wants the Gorosei to speak from a purely Watsonian perspective, he tends to assert uncertainty into their dialogue. A good example is when they discussed Marco MAYBE having a chance against Blackbeard. It wasn't presented as a definitive conclusion, which means it shouldn't automatically be treated as a direct expression of authorial intent.

By contrast, the statement regarding the Admirals is framed as a firm assessment rather than a possibility. There's no ambiguity, no hedging, and no suggestion that they're merely guessing. Because of that, the statement functions less as an in-universe opinion and more as a Doylist tool for communicating the intended power dynamic to the reader.

90%

This one is more controversial, but the logic is still pretty simple

Mihawk is stated to be the strongest swordsman in reality according to his Vivre Card.

Swordsmanship in One Piece is repeatedly associated with the ability to cut exactly what one intends to cut. The pinnacle of swordsmanship is mastery over one's blade and cutting power. By extension, the strongest swordsman should possess the strongest sword attacks.

Now, this does not necessarily mean Mihawk is stronger than Imu overall. A character's overall combat ability is composed of far more than just swordsmanship. Imu has access to abilities and powers that fall completely outside the realm of sword fighting.

However, Imu still utilizes sword attacks in combat, then Mihawk's title would place his sword attacks above Imu's sword attacks.

Sword attacks in One Piece aren't separated from Haki. High-level swordsmanship is intrinsically tied to Haki application, especially at the upper tiers of the verse. If Imu is channeling Haki through his sword strikes, then for Mihawk's sword attacks to still be superior, Mihawk's Haki at bare minimum would have to be comparable to Imu's.

In fact, one could argue it may need to be even higher. After all, if Mihawk's sword attacks are stronger despite Imu possessing additional supernatural abilities that can augment his combat effectiveness, then Mihawk's advantage must come from the qualities that directly contribute to sword attacks themselves, namely swordsmanship and the Haki empowering those attacks since Mihawk only operates under one power system being haki

So in simple terms:

Strongest Swordsman ---> Strongest sword attacks.

If Imu's sword attacks are Haki-infused, then Mihawk's sword attacks being superior would require Haki that is at least on Imu's level in that specific area, and potentially even greater depending on how much of other abilities Imu uses on his sword attacks.

100%

Another controversial take.

My argument here is centered entirely around Oda's famous "one year" statement regarding Akainu.

Essentially, Oda said that Akainu is so strong that if he were the protagonist, he would finish the series within a year. The point Oda was making is that giving the protagonist too much power is bad for storytelling because they would overcome obstacles too quickly and the story would end too quickly. To illustrate that point, Oda specifically uses Akainu as his example, since he's a character who fills those conditions.

And what does "finishing the story" actually mean in One Piece?

It means obtaining the One Piece. To do that one must acquire all poneglyphs and defeat the major contender for it.

That includes characters like Shanks and the Red Hair Pirates.

So if Akainu would finish the story through his strength alone, then the logical implication is that he would be capable of overcoming these competing forces in a very short timeframe. The statement only works if Akainu's power allows him to bulldoze through obstacles that would normally take the protagonist hundreds of chapters to overcome.

Oda didn't say Akainu would eventually finish the story. He said he would finish it in roughly one year of serialization, which translates to around 52 chapters or less.

I also want to address a common counterargument.

People often claim Oda was referring to some hypothetical protagonist version of Akainu that would receive narrative advantages or protagonist buffs. The problem is that the linguistics don't support that interpretation.

Oda's statement is framed around Akainu's existing strength. He says Akainu IS so strong that he would finish the story within a year, not that Akainu would become that strong under different circumstances.

As a result, there's no provable basis for assuming additional protagonist amps. The statement is specifically using canon Akainu as the example of a character whose power level would cause the story to progress abnormally quickly.

I also don't want to see anyone bring up Akainu "stealing" the poneglyphs. Oda already layed out the conditions, which was Akainu's strength. So the most parsimonious interpretation is that Akainu would finish the story because of his strength alone.

Personally I can't see any arguments for Roger>Loki so I'm interested in what y'all can come up with