u/steferine

I've always thought Inadu's power was more impressive to me than Hope's not because I think Hope is weak, but because of where their power comes from.

Again this isn't me saying Hope isn't powerful obviously she is, my point is that Inadu's power is more impressive to me because everything she achieved it how terrified people were of her came from being a witch while hope's reputation is built around being a once-in-history tribrid with vampire, werewolf, and witch abilities. Inadu became a magical force of nature without having the advantage of multiple supernatural species but still was a major powerhouse.

Even without bringing up feats what impresses me more in Inadu is she wasn't powerful because she was a combination of three supernatural species she was simply a witch whose magic became so overwhelming that even in the present she was feared for centuries after her death that's a different kind of accomplishment, and personally I find it more impressive.

Knowing this fandom I know I'm going to get people trying to twist my words and one thing that would irritate me is if anyone immediately assumes this is about downplaying Hope just because I said another character impressed me more with there power than hope.

And I only brought up hope because she is the most powerful in the franchise according to the writers so it's just me saying even with inadu not being the most powerful I still found her way more intense, I'm also not trying to compare feats because that wouldn't even be a fair comparison. Hope has Seasons 4 and 5 of The Originals plus four seasons of Legacies and Inadu had far less screen time, so of course Hope has more opportunities to show what she can do especially as a main character.

Personally, that's what I find more impressive and this isn't me saying Inadu is objectively stronger than Hope or that Hope is overrated it's simply that if one character reaches an incredible level of power through witchcraft alone while another's extraordinary power comes from being a one-of-a-kind tribrid, I'm naturally going to be more impressed by the witch who accomplished all of that with only one species.

I’ve been thinking a lot about the show lately, especially how Season 3 started with so much promise but fell flat in the second half for me. The early episodes built incredible hype around Klaus creating hybrids, but once that momentum shifted, it felt like the show abandoned its most exciting element for repetitive plot armor, unnecessary romance, and too many characters pulling focus.

The hybrids were the biggest missed opportunity of the entire season and expanding them would’ve made the back half actually satisfying instead of feeling rushed and empty. Klaus spent the first four episodes of the season obsessing over how to make them successfully, and by the end of that episode 4 we finally saw Tyler turned and from there, we should’ve gotten real depth.

Like Klaus personally choosing and turning more werewolves, treating them as his chosen family, and fully exploring the sire bond because that bond born from genuine gratitude for ending their agonizing full-moon shifts could’ve shown complex loyalty mixed with emerging cracks as some started to break free. No treating them as expendable cannon fodder or heavily nerfed in fights instead give us proper pack dynamics, coordinated strategies, and threats that forced the Mystic Falls gang to get smarter.

They shouldn’t automatically lose to Damon or Stefan; victories should come from experience and cunning not plot armor. This focus would’ve kept the season’s energy high and made the hybrids feel like a persistent dangerous force rather than something the writers sidelined after the initial hype.

Besides that wasted hybrid potential, the introduction of the full Original family only made things more frustrating by diluting what was already working, and no matter how unpopular it is I never thought the Originals saved TVD it literally was at its peak in Season 2 even with Elijah and Klaus who are there for a few episodes but didm’t overdo it, and frankly the Originals as a whole was the least interesting thing about Season 3.

The big undaggering in episode 13 still should’ve happened for some drama, but we didn’t need everyone dumped in at once. Elijah and Klaus carried the early threat well, but adding Rebekah after being undaggered again (whose constant complaints about her stolen human life got repetitive fast who I just never got the hype for), Kol (who had potential but felt like setup for later like season 4), and especially Finn who either should've went off with sage or we truly should've seen how much damage being daggered did to him and how that showed why he wanted to align with his mother because, it's dumb how it's labeled as Mama's boy behavior when Finn already thought that of his own.

It turned the season into “Mystic Falls gang vs. unstoppable family” loop where plot armor made the Originals feel like temper tantrum children instead of ancient terrors. This shift made the second half drag especially since the hybrids the element we’d invested in from the start got pushed aside.

The Originals overload also directly personally for me hurt Tyler’s arc, which got rushed in ways that felt intentional just to force other drama. Tyler should’ve stayed central much longer in Season 3 instead of being written out so quickly after episode 12, only returning much later since we needed to see the full weight of him breaking the sire bond through over a hundred painful shifts, his deep reluctance as a hybrid, the constant fear that Klaus would kill him without hesitation (unlike how he spared Stefan or Damon even if it's just plot armor it would still bring tension to have Tyler point it out), and the isolation of realizing only Caroline truly cared about what he was enduring.

We should've gotten scenes of him bonding with other hybrids, voicing resentment toward Klaus as his “slave owner,” and clashing with the group even while hating the same enemy would’ve added real layers. This natural strain on Forewood tied completely to the hybrid struggles would’ve created believable relationship tension without needing anything else instead, pushing Tyler aside made room for pointless klaroline scenes that weakened the whole impact Klaus had originally made from the beginning of the season.

Speaking of that forced drama, the Klaroline scenes that replaced meaningful hybrid arcs and Tyler moments felt especially irritating and out of place. After Klaus forced Tyler to bite Caroline in episode 11, their later interactions came out of nowhere and served mostly as fan service or plot devices rather than organic storytelling. Caroline already had way too much screentime in scenes where she wasn’t needed and those moments made her seem insensitive to Tyler’s pain while making Klaus look uncharacteristically softened for a baby vampire who wasn’t special compared to other women he’s met over centuries. Keeping the focus on Forewood’s hybrid-related problems would’ve been far more satisfying and grounded. It would’ve highlighted Tyler’s understandable perspective without any shallow fanservice, freeing up time for the hybrids to actually matter.

All of this ties together in how the hybrids should’ve had real agency, especially in key confrontations like the desiccation. In canon of episode 21 it never made sense that a newly hybrid Tyler plus two vampires who aren't even 200 years old could hold Klaus down so easily. Instead, the hybrids themselves who have newly broken there sire bonds should’ve ganged up on him with numbers, surprise, and instinct. This would’ve been humiliating and poetic as Klaus’s own creations turning against him, giving them genuine agency and showing the sire bond’s fragility (some might still stay loyal out of fear) but it’s more realistic power-wise even if Klaus ultimately escapes or overpowers some and it sets up better consequences leading into the Enhanced Alaric finale and the second half would’ve felt earned instead of anticlimactic.

Finally, keeping Klaus as a consistent, ruthless villain throughout would’ve elevated everything because the show’s shift toward “nuanced bad boy” vibes, especially in those Klaroline moments, made his threats feel empty and irritating after the strong late season 2/early season 3 setup tying his screentime more to managing his hybrids, reacting with sadism when betrayed, and staying dangerous would’ve preserved his edge. No more looking like an annoying ex in some scenes while the gang supposedly feared him in others and that approach, combined with the stronger hybrid focus, would’ve made the entire back half of Season 3 very interesting instead of something I mostly tuned out after the first half.

The show had a bad habit of introducing cool supernatural concepts like the hybrids only to nerf or abandon them for interpersonal stuff and this rewrite keeps the early hype alive, gives the sire bond the respect it deserved (unlike the Delena version), and delivers real stakes.

What do you think any other tweaks that would make Season 3 better?

Rewatching early seasons and man even though the first half of Season 3 is where the show peaked for me, I can’t stop thinking about how much untapped potential was in that Sun and Moon Curse storyline in season 2.

Elijah dropping that bomb on Elena in 2x19 that the whole “vampires vs werewolves, one side breaks the curse and dooms the other forever” thing was fake like Klaus and Elijah literally manufactured the myth across cultures just to get other people to hunt the moonstone and doppelgänger for them was brilliant manipulation.

But after Klaus’s ritual, it mostly disappears like I get that word has traveled fast a lot of times when something that was suppose to be rare knowledge is now something everybody knows but, if it was treated like it realistically would most of any werewolves or vampires who still believe in the curse and who thinks it's still in mystic falls could come looking for it.

Most of all werewolves (who were already criminally underused give me more pack wars, more real stakes with the bite, more Jules or Mason werewolf energy has he lived) get sidelined hard. I wish the show had brought the curse myth back into the plot in Season 3, even as lingering belief or propaganda.

Maybe some packs still hunting artifacts, or reacting to the hybrid reveal if they ever encounter Klaus It could’ve been such a cool way to expand the world and give werewolves actual plot relevance beyond Tyler’s personal arc which also was underutilized.

Also, the moonstone’s role in the ritual always felt like it could’ve left threads real or fabricated for later and yeah, I’ll say it the Originals (as great as some moments were) shifted the show in a way that made MFG plot armor feel way too obvious at times that made it bad to even like those scenes because they felt to cheap and not even cleaver enough to realistically try to defeat the originals.

I'm also gonna say I wasn't really a fan of him post the first half of season 3 so if Klaus died earlier in 3×9 or stayed a bigger looming threat and even focused more on the hybrids without his full family overload, it might’ve kept that early Season 3 tension alive longer but most of all the Sun and Moon Curse had such cool ancient-myth energy it could’ve been one of those lore elements that kept paying off and it felt like it deserved more story telling on it, anyone else feel like this thread got dropped too soon?

One thing that keeps bothering me is how Susannah would tell Belly she was destined for one of her boys. I know the show frames it as sweet and romantic, and we all know she mainly meant Conrad but the older I get the more uncomfortable it feels.

Belly was a child she hadn't even figured out who she was yet, what love meant, or what she wanted out of life. Her biggest concerns were probably playing, having fun during the summer, and just being a kid so what possessed a grown woman to look at a little girl before she was even a teenager worrying about boys and decide that she was destined to end up with one of her sons someday?

What makes it even stranger to me is that before season 1, Belly hadn't even dated anyone if I remember cam Cameron was the first person she went out with again if I'm misinformed tell me but if I'm not It's not like Susannah had spent years watching Belly and Conrad date, break up, find their way back to each other, and build some undeniable romantic connection belly was a kid with a crush that's it.

Kids have crushes all the time I mean most of them don't end up with those people so I've never understood why Susannah seemed so certain that Belly's future was tied to one of her sons(Conrad) when Belly hadn't even had the chance to discover who she was or what she wanted for herself yet. Even if Susannah meant it lovingly, it feels like she was projecting a future onto Belly before Belly was old enough to choose one for herself.

I think that's also part of why her letter she has got Conrad in season 3 bothered me. Even in her final message to her son (again if there were more tell me since there is stuff I might miss but if I'm right it than it apllies) Susannah still seemed attached to this specific romantic future she'd imagined years earlier.

It just reinforces how invested she was in an outcome that neither Belly nor her son had actually had the chance to fully choose for themselves yet and honestly, this has nothing to do with whether the boy was Conrad or Jeremiah. If Susannah had been saying Belly was destined for Jeremiah since childhood, I'd find it just as weird the issue isn't which brother it was it's the fact that a grown woman was talking about a child's romantic future as if it was already decided.

I know Susannah was a romantic and probably liked the idea of the two families being connected forever, but I've always thought it put an unfair expectation on Belly from a really young age and I just found it ridiculous because what was unique that Susannah truly has that thought about a child romantic future.

Did anyone else find this uncomfortable?

I’ve honestly never understood why the franchise kept feeling the need to make Hope more and more special when the concept of her already being a tribrid was enough on its own.

And before anyone takes this as “hating” Hope, that’s not even my point I actually think the idea of her character is interesting a witch, werewolf, and vampire all at once is already one of the most unique concepts in the TVDU. That alone should’ve naturally made her one of the most dangerous beings in the universe because she has access to abilities no one else can combine at the same time.

What frustrates me is how it feels like the writers kept stacking extra layers onto her instead of trusting that concept to stand on its own.

First she’s Klaus’s miracle baby then her blood can make hybrids without doppelgänger blood, then there’s the whole “firstborn Mikaelson witch” thing where apparently firstborns in Esther and Dahlia’s bloodline are automatically insanely powerful than any sibling after, then in legacies she finally becomes the tribrid, then she’s supposedly stronger than the Originals themselves strength wise, then apparently literal gods need to exist by the end of Legacies because regular supernatural threats aren’t enough anymore.

I mean at some point it starts feeling less like grounded worldbuilding and more like the writers constantly trying to remind us how important and powerful she is and lore-wise, some of it genuinely just doesn’t make sense to me.

I can accept Hope existing because Klaus was able to concieve via his werewolf side but since there are people saying that the real explanation is because nature needed a way to defeat malivore it is hard to truly know which one is which and if it's the explanation on legacies maybe that is why the rukes don't apply soabe can defeat him but if it isn't then it feels inconstient.

Speaking of inconstinces this is the biggest one for me which is why should Hope have the strength of an Original or even surpass them physically since it's stated she's the strongest besides ken because lore-wise, I don’t see a solid reason.

Being a witch doesn’t add anything to physical strength if that were true the heretics would be even more powerful on there vampire side but that’s just magic, not muscle or vampire strength scaling. So if we’re talking strictly brute force vampire vs vampire or hybrid vs hybrid there’s no clear reason she should automatically be above the Originals.

Klaus, Elijah, Finn, Rebekah, Mikael and Kol their strength comes from Esther’s Original immortality spell that’s what made them Originals besides being the first vampires, If Hope is somehow being scaled to that level or above it, then I feel like the explanation isn’t really grounded in established rules.

And if we’re being consistent with earlier lore, there’s nothing that says “being a tribrid automatically equals superior physical strength to an Original.” It just doesn’t really connect for me. At best if we ignore magic entirely, Hope should logically just be a hybrid-level physical fighter with a witch side that gives her versatility not a straight-up physical upgrade beyond the Originals and that’s what bothers me, it feels like the answer becomes “she’s stronger because she’s Hope” rather than a clear lore-based reason.

This one also feels like it was added later just to push her into being even more special. I get the idea of Dahlia wanting powerful firstborns like Freya, but it still feels like the concept was retroactively used to elevate Hope even further instead of it being something naturally built into the original witch lore. Dahlia already had reason enough to want Hope just based on her potential to become a tribrid and rhe power from that alone is already insane and unique.

So adding “and she’s also the firstborn Mikaelson witch from Klaus” just makes it feel like another stacked advantage rather than a necessary part of the story. It starts to feel like every layer of her existence had to be upgraded to “the most special version possible” instead of letting the tribrid concept speak for itself.

And one more thing that always throws me off is when people who want to just ignore what I said and the explanation they use is basically just “because she’s the tribrid.” That’s not really an explanation in terms of lore that’s just a label that tells you what she is not why, that shouldn't automatically translate into Original-level strength or beyond.

We’ve seen this before in the franchise too characters calling themselves “I'm the hybrid I can't be killed” like Klaus or claiming superiority doesn’t actually change the underlying rules of what can or can’t kill them or how their strength is structured. Klaus being a hybrid didn’t erase the White Oak weakness or fundamentally rewrite how his original vampirism weakness works just like his siblings having the same weakness. So when “she’s a tribrid” is used as the full answer to everything some people love to use, it feels less like a lore-based justification and more like a shorthand for “she wins because she is written to win.”

It always felt like the more they expanded her lore the less grounded the power scaling became and for me personally, the tribrid idea was already more than enough without needing constant additions on top of it.

I also feel like the show accidentally undermines the tribrid concept by doing this. Because if being all three species at once wasn’t already enough to make her extraordinary, then what was even the point?

Maybe I’m forgetting or don't know some details since I haven’t watched Legacies and it’s been years since I watched The Originals, but this has always been one of my biggest frustrations with how the franchise handled Hope’s power scaling.

I’ve never read the TVD books and probably never will but after looking into book Klaus and stuff the fandom has said about him compared to tv Klaus, I think it perfectly explains why I’ve always had mixed feelings about how tvd handled Klaus after Season 2.

And before people misunderstand me this is not me saying Klaus is a badly written character at every angle or that Joseph Morgan gave a bad performance, he’s one of the most entertaining characters in the franchise and Joseph Morgan absolutely carried the role at least in how they made Klaus in the beginning. My issue is with how the narrative framed Klaus over time because there’s a difference between a compelling character and the story emotionally softening his character.

Late Season 2 Klaus genuinely felt terrifying and entertaining even before he appeared, the show built him up like an ancient supernatural catastrophe I mean (Katherine ran from him for over 500 years Elijah already was talking about him like he was this monster who needed to be put down, vampires like rose were terrified of his name, the sacrifice storyline had huge stakes, and his arrival completely changed the atmosphere of the show) and when he finally arrived, he actually lived up to the buildup.

He sacrificed a recently turned Jenna in the sacrifice, he killed Elena and if John hasn't given his life for her she would've stayed dead, in season 3 he was using Elena as a blood bag and coerced Stefan into becoming a ripper again, he enslaved Tyler through the sire bond and murdering hybrids for disobedience, daggering his siblings for centuries although that's more stuff he has done throughout centuries more than him doing it every moment in tvd just like him kiling entire families out of revenge or just petty nonsense, and how he was chasing Katherine for half a millennium and had his minions do it as well.

The problem for me personally isn’t that the show ignored how evil he was, the problem is that seasons 3 and 4 increasingly changed the emotional framing around his actions. The show still called Klaus a monster but at the same time it started making him more as (lonely misunderstood, damaged, romantic, protective, and redeemable) and that is where the character shift happened.

Instead of maintaining him as this horrifying ancient predator, the show increasingly focused on his trauma, abandonment issues although obviously that's more TO but we do see stuff from tvd as well first, his "relationship with Caroline" and his family dynamics.

I know trauma can explain behavior but it does not erase behavior and obviously I'm not against depth I think tvd started confusing “depth” with “constant emotional excuses.” I mean for me I wouidhe loved if they still had him as a layered villain espically one like Klaus but still most of all had him remain terrifying.

But with Klaus, there were times where the narrative almost felt afraid to let him just be monstrous without immediately reminding us he was secretly hurt inside and the show actively encouraged viewers to emotionally attach to Klaus through, Joseph Morgan’s charisma, his witty dialogue, the emotional music, his romantic framing eventhough klaroline felt shallow with there dynamic, a brief family flashback in tvd as opposed TO later on.

One thing I also noticed comparing him to book Klaus is that book Klaus sounds less like a tragic antihero and more like a force of horror and one I actually would've loved to watch as opposed to canon him in season 3 and definitely 4 especially since book version has no need for( siblings, redemption arc, soft romance dynamics, “Always and Forever”, definitely not any tragic family narrative) just an ancient terrifying evil presence and I honestly think that version would’ve kept Klaus more intimidating long-term.

Not necessarily more emotionally layered but definitely more consistently threatening. Because by Seasons 3 and 4, TV show Klaus sometimes stopped feeling like the terrifying cold villan the show promised and started feeling more like a charismatic fandom favorite the writers didn’t want audiences to hate too much and like I said that doesn’t make me hate all of his character in canon since, I loved him near the end of season 2 but I do think it fundamentally changed what kind of villain he was and what more we could've gotten.

Honestly I would’ve loved seeing what Seasons 3 and 4 would even look like with that version of Klaus brcause realistically, if TVD used a more book-accurate Klaus I truly wonder what arcs would’ve had to completely change for better or for worse.

How would the Mystic Falls Gang realistically survive him? Would Stefan’s ripper arc become even darker without Klaus wanting to be buddy buddy and just wanting more of the ripper? Would Klaroline even exist if they didn't need to show some humanity? Would the Originals family storyline even happen at all if they either kept him having no siblings or him not caring about them like in anyway? Would the show have to lean harder into horror/survival instead of romance and antihero dynamics?

Because book Klaus sounds so overwhelmingly powerful and irredeemably evil that the entire structure of Seasons 3 and 4 probably would’ve needed to change to make the story believable. TV Klaus eventually became someone the protagonists could negotiate with, manipulate, temporarily ally with, and emotionally understand even when the only thing that most of those things centered on was plot armour having to be involved but book Klaus sounds more like a supernatural evil you survive by luck and I honestly think that’s part of why late Season 2 Klaus worked so well for me.

For a brief period, he actually felt like the kind of villain the buildup promised before the narrative started softening him into a more tragic and emotionally accessible character. Although I do think it fundamentally changed what kind of villain he was and honestly I’m curious what other people think If TVD had kept Klaus closer to his book counterpart, what storylines from Seasons 3 and 4 would’ve had to change to make it work?

One thing about me is I’m never going to pretend Klaus was suddenly a victim in Season 2 of TO just because he loved, and before people start twisting this into something it’s not no I don't think Hope deserved what Dahlia wanted to do to her.

Hope was innocent and she deserved protection and safety the entire time but regarding Klaus himself, I honestly saw that whole storyline as the closest thing to karma he ever got abd I never felt bad for him even for a second.

This is the same man who spent centuries deciding he had a right to other people’s lives if they were useful to him. He hunted Katherine for over 500 years (and don't even say he didn't when he himself says it and nothing in canon contradicts what he himself says besides even if you don't believe he didn't it still doesn't change him seeing Katherine as a thing beneath him that is owed to him) because she escaped being sacrificed for his ritual.

He treated Elena like she was tied to his curse before she was even a person in his eyes and killed her which she would've died if it wasn't for John and he killed her aunt Jenna as well when he didn't have to. Klaus built his entire life around controlling people through fear, possession, and entitlement and no amount of his human life trauma changes that so, watching someone more powerful than him suddenly view Hope as something they had a claim to felt ironic and good to me.

For once Klaus had to sit in the fear, paranoia, helplessness, and desperation he caused other people for centuries and I think that’s part of why the storyline works so well for me even if he doesn't have to suffer the permanent consequences I still loved every bit of his paranoia and helpless up till the ending of this season.

Also, this doesn’t mean I hate the show I actually love stuff like the lore or the upgraded original arc which I know a lot of you hate but I lobed every bit of it, I just don’t worship Klaus or excuse everything he does because he’s charismatic. I can enjoy him as a character(which I don't)while still acknowledging that a lot of the suffering he experienced in Season 2 mirrored the exact kind of suffering he inflicted on other people for hundreds of years.

I've always imagined how season 4 could've made Katherine arc better than canon.

I have had so much hate towards the writers for what they did to Katherine’s character in tvd and while I actually loved the concept of the upgraded original in TO, I didn’t love everything around it so here is what I would’ve done differently if there was no spin off and the enhanced alaric thing never happened but it was still something esther was planning before she died, as a reason to introduce the concept in the first place.

So instead of that whole direction in TO season 3 where Marcel and Lucien became upgraded originals or Alaric becoming a enhanced original in tvd season 3, I would’ve made the one who becomes the upgraded original Katherine in tvd season 4 but in a very grounded way since the prophecy crap was something I hated.

The biggest thing for me is that it wouldn’t have started with her just out of the blue thinking she can become an original out of nowhere, it started exactly how her character was made out to be which is a survivor so for starters I would have actually introduced the Augustine society or at least a handful of scientists that Katherine has had been in kahoots with for a few decades.

This all started because she was trying to make herself immune to werewolf venom while she can be killed by so many other things being bitten is the main thing she knows she will die from and she is paranoid enough to want that gone completely so, I would have her secretly using something like the Augustine society. While they are experimenting with her blood specifically since she's isn't trying to find a cure for all vampires just herself and the different werewolf venom strains is the key part since she wouldn’t just settle for immunity from one bloodline, she pushes for all seven bloodlines because in her mind she doesn't know that much about werewolf venom so she thinks just being immune from one werewolf bloodline might be different if she's ever bitten from another and that's where all seven bloodline packs come in to all of this.

That’s how it starts grounded and very Katherine coded since her plan was something she's been working on for years prior to pre canon of the show but then once esther comes back to life in season 3 and the idea of creating something stronger than her own children is introduced that’s when it her plans changed because now it’s not just about surviving Klaus or werewolves anymore it’s about never wanting to run again and putting herself in a position of power to capitalize on.

So she gets access to esther’s spellwork (however you want to imagine she pulls that off since I haven't really thought about every detail) and realizes if something stronger than an original can exist she is going to be the one to become that very thing and this is where her planning really kicks in because she would not just take a risk like that blindly, she would recruit powerful witches who already hate the mikaelsons more than anything not because she trusts them but because their goals align and she would manipulate them by playing into the truth that Klaus destroyed her life while also promising them she will end the Mikaelsons for good.

But she would already know they are going to try to control her or build in a weakness because she knows they wouldn't create something even stronger than the originals they are trying to destroy so the second everything is complete she kills them before they can do anything to cause her own downfall as to close anyway she could have her lower taken away since this would be a permanent thing.

Also before even the audience finds out what's she's doing her on screen cover for being in town earlier than canon in season 4 would've been at the same time she is allying with Bonnie but not because bonnie trusts her, because she doesn't Bonnie is reluctantly cooperating because Katherine wouldn't implied she found a way to break Klaus sireline and Bonnie wants her friends free from klaus’s sireline and Katherine uses that to push her into breaking it using expression which also removes the risk of Katherine being tied to klaus if she becomes something new because she wouldn't know if she would still be apart of Klaus sireline even if she became more powerful than him.

While the actual serum in my version would still be the same it feels more grounded the way it was formed with the werewolf venom being just something she was already working on protecting herself from lesser weaknesses but with a few changes she can now have the bite be lethal to the originals because of the white oak in which she will have the witches locate so she can obtain however much is needed so it isn't just some out of nowhere idea.

The most Katherine part of this entire thing is how she completes now like I've said I don't like everything about how they did the arc in TO but how they did Marcel transformation I actually liked it so while not the same it would have been similar but with a few circumstances in changed.

So her reason to finally take the serum is when she has been spotted by Klaus who will imply that he could easily just use the cure on her to make into his new hybrid blood bag instead of Elena as another punishment for evading hij centuries earlier.

In hearing this she takes the serum now that it's finished and manipulates Klaus into killing her after she Implied she had a white oak stake considering she also knew where he had one hidden and implies it’s hidden inside her chest so Klaus in his paranoia rips her heart out thinking he’s saving himself from the only weapon that can kill him when in reality he is finishing the transformation for her making it full circle again I know it's like Marcels but if this was Katherine it just would've felt better in comparison given she has way more anger and what lead up to it all.

When she comes back it shouldn’t be quickly like how lucien or Marcel woke up hers would at least be a whole day it's more for why Klaus wouldn't know what she is yet as opposed to my idea, it should take time and be quiet with flashes of her family her past and everything he put her through and then just that realization that she is no longer the one being hunted will be a very more nuance and better vibe that what they did with Lucien or Marcel because Klaus and his siblings being main characters was obvious that they weren't going to be killed by them so them being upgraded just felt pointless if the payoff wasn't going to happen.

Of course I wouldn't do the same mistake with the whole getting power thing which is even after that she shouldn’t suddenly act reckless or overconfident she is still herself she's been like that for centuries and being stronger wouldn't just make her into a cartoon mastermind villain she still calculating, still paranoid and now she just finally has the power to back it up but most of all this is where the consequences actually matter and the stakes come in because for this arc to truly matter just like I said it should actually have the payoff of what she is representing which is the end of the originals.

I don't know when but soon after coming back since unlike Lucien she didn't come back right away it was hours later because I wanted the element of surprise and she doesn’t just go straight for Klaus somewhere near the last few episodes of the season. She will make him watch as she kills Elijah in whatever way she has planned and Rebekah in another episode however she has planned and separately not because they are her main targets but, because they are part of what made him feel untouchable and she wants to break that completely and take away his family like he took hers.

Regarding Klaus himself honestly killing him is not even the most satisfying option to me because not only does his death deserve to last as awfully and long as possible which is why the biggest payoff isn't even her killing him with the bite but having the cure arc in canon end way better than canon and having her eventually turn him human or pre triggered werewolf if he does already stay a triggered werewolf then not only is he just like any other werewolf he has to break his bone every month as well and also look out for his enemies because Katherine definitely will make it known he isn't a vampire anymore.

Mostly I love thinking about this idea not only because Katherine was done dirty or because I hated Klaus got away with so much but because everything with Katherine all started with him deciding her life meant nothing but being a sacrifice, he slaughtered her family, chased her for centuries which in the face her constant paranoia, PTSD, never being able to settle down without him or his minions trying to kill her she deserves to at least get somewhat of a chance at something different.

Also since Klaus built his identity on being superior and untouchable when in reality his whole strength is based on his vampire side which his mother gave to him so stripping all of that away and leaving him as nothing but a weak werewolf who has to live with it feels way more personal than just killing him. What makes this version work for me more than Lucien or Marcel is that Katherine’s motivation is layered and we know from the moment way back in 2×9 why she is how she is today and it all leads back to Klaus and because she isn't someone who's, entirely free but is jealous or petty over a girl not loving him unlike Lucien or being raised by him but still be treated beneath them like Marcel Katherine is in neither box and she truly suffered because of him so it feels way more emotionally better.

Most of all I would've loved that this wouldn't have been an all out of nowhere plan, Katherine wouldn't have just come up with it out of nowhere it would have started with her just trying to survive like always with survival becoming control and that becoming revenge but, it is all rooted in something we should have gotten since her backstory with Klaus and there brief scenes when he held her hostage back in season 2 and it would've actually felt earned instead of coming out of nowhere.

I can’t stop thinking about how intense this would’ve been if season 4 leaned into this direction instead of the crap we got in canon of tvd season 4 because it truly was when this show went downhill especially with not having the originals act like 1000 year old beings instead of stronger vampires having to meddle in teenagers lives and not I never got the appeal of the originals so having them die would've personally been better because they overstayed there welcome.

What do you think could this have been interesting if the spinoff never happened and this concept was introduced and actually lived up to its potential..or does this seem to ridiculous it's mostly just a thought that had been in my head that I could see so vividly in moments.

one thing i genuinely cannot stop thinking about when it comes to the this show is how Doppelgängers and there blood was so underutilized and might have been one of the most fascinating concepts they ever introduced and yet it never feels fully explored.

I mean we’re told over and over again amongst so much other stuff it’s one of the many powerful magical substances in the show, it can be a powerful substance in creating vamprism , break curses, create hybrids, wipe away vamprism via traveler boarder, act as a power source for magic that should be way beyond a witch’s limits… it’s literally tied to nature itself and the idea of balance and then the show just kind of..uses it when it needs it and moves on.

I'm not even saying the rules don’t make sense, because they actually do the whole “only human Doppelgänger blood is useful for like Klaus’s hybrids or breaking his curse since it was specifically a human Doppelganger that was originally used, but vampire Doppelgänger blood still works for other types of spells” thing if that's actually stated since I don't know if Doppleganger blood is still useful in a lot of different magic spells beyond just the travelers spell but, if so that too feels logical and even better and or wouldn't just have there importance end after becoming vampires.

But what i don’t get is how something that powerful never becomes a consistent part of the world not constantly shoved into every storyline but more just stuff like, if there blood can(break a 1000 year old curse, reverse magic on a massive scale which was literally undoing vampirism if the boarder went even further then mystic falls) so why does it only matter when the plot suddenly remembers it exists which isn't as much.

Like given information and how fast it spreads in that universe its hard to say if so may people know when a Doppleganger will appear let alone where they will be seen at but just in the case they are then, why aren’t witches constantly trying to use them, why isn’t it treated like the rares, most magical resource in the show, why isn’t it something people are fighting over all the time not just Klaus dumb hybrid making crap.

The part that really gets me is the writers treat Doppelgängers like a plot function instead of what they actually are nature’s way of correcting Silas and Amara's immortality and being a version of them that can die but also has special blood as well and if that’s true… then for me I always wished that's where ur was explored more like becoming a vampire shouldn’t just be like any other person who becomes a vampire, it should do something that shows a difference in there Doppleganger side now that it isn't as pure anymore.

Like imagine if instead of a random late season explanations about Stefan being a ripper which was reduced to some vague inherited gene, what if it was actually tied to him being a Doppelgänger now hear me out like his entire existence is supposed to end which again because he's a shadow self that whole purpose was to die in place of Silas just like all Dopplegangers.

What at if his Doppelgänger nature is constantly pushing back against that immortality not Silas immortality but still at least in the vampire sense which is harder to kill than humans and what if it comes out as this uncontrollable hunger not just addiction, but a imbalance like his body is overcompensating because he isn't meant to exceed human lifespan like all Dopplegangers.

Suddenly being a ripper isn’t just a character trait it’s a consequence of what he is and then you have Elena, who honestly had so much potential when she turned and it just gets buried under everything else and while I will always hate the sirebond and would've gladly had anything other than that, I mostly still think her vamprsim should've been explored way more in season 4.

But what if all those issues she was having weren’t just outside influences via sirebond! What if part of it was internal like her Doppelgänger side actively rejecting her vampirism not in a way that makes her constantly miserable forever, but in a way that shows there’s a real conflict there which is her body struggling to process blood at first or her senses cutting in and out unpredictably or even her emotions either becoming too intense or weirdly grounded, like moments where her instincts don’t fully align with being a vampire not enough to undo what she is but enough to show that becoming immortal didn’t just erase what she was.

Then there’s Katherine who could’ve been the opposite like what if it’s not the same for every doppelgänger of any become vampires. For some of them it creates instability but for others, it enhances them or changes things differently than another Doppelganger.

What if her blood even as a vampire, is closer to being the purest more than elena's or Stefan's than not because she’s special in a chosen-one way, just because it's just another difference of the chances her Doppelganger side has once they become vampires.

But back to the point instead of doppelgänger blood just being useful in spells, it actually means something for the person carrying it instead it felt like the show had this idea that could have reshaped not just the magic but the characters themselves and just never fully went there and i think that’s why it sticks with me so much because it’s not about blaming anything or saying it was bad, it’s just one of those ideas that had so much depth and so many directions it could’ve gone in and i can’t help but think about how different things might have felt if the show had leaned into it just a little bit more.

Do you agree and what do you think could've been explored with the dopplegangers?

One thing I think gets overlooked in the TVD/TO fandom is what being daggered actually means for an original, It’s not sleep and it’s not death It’s being fully unconscious but completely immobilized. We see through Rebekah and Kol that they’re unaware while daggered. Now compare that to Finn who has stated being daggered for centuries was worse and different than being daggered for decades in which he became conscious again eventually and was completely paralyzed unable to speak talk or move.

Klaus was daggered for short period of time, Elijah on and off, Rebekah had longer stretches, and Kol had decades on and off but Finn wasn’t in and out he was left that way for around 900 years straight. That’s not just punishment it was prolonged isolation, sensory deprivation, and psychological imprisonment on a level we can’t really relate to or comprehend.

So when people describe Finn as just “boring” or “crazy,” I think you all miss a big part of the picture you don’t have to like him, but what he went through would realistically change anyone in extreme ways.

Another thing I notice is how differently the fandom responds to similar situations a lot of people sympathize with Rebekah and Kol for being daggered, and that makes sense their autonomy was taken, and they were treated badly by Klaus whenever he felt like it but Finn experienced that same thing to a much greater extent consedering it was all his siblings left him to rot not just one and yet he rarely gets that same level of understanding that difference in reaction is interesting to me.

Finn’s personality also makes more sense when you look at his circumstances, he didn’t spend centuries adapting to immortality like his siblings did, his worldview was basically frozen at the point where he saw his family becoming something he couldn’t accept then he was isolated for hundreds of years with nothing but his own thoughts. It’s not surprising that he comes across as intense, rigid, or extreme that kind of experience would likely lead to obsessive thinking and very fixed beliefs and speaking of beliefs, Finn’s stance on vampirism is actually pretty consistent.

He sees it as a curse and believes it shouldn’t exist that includes himself, not just others so while his conclusion is extreme, it’s not hypocritical, he follows his logic all the way through even when it turns against him compare that to the rest of his family, who often acknowledge the damage they cause but still continue the same behavior Finn doesn’t separate himself from the problem.

I also think it’s important to look at perspective as viewers we see Klaus, Elijah, Rebekah, and Kol as complex characters we understand their trauma, their motivations, and their relationships. Finn doesn’t have that viewpoint, from his perspective his siblings are the people who left him imprisoned for centuries and continued killing without remorse during that time, he didn’t witness their growth in whatever way they did which I see barely or internal struggles, he only sees the outcome.

Of course there's the “he betrayed his family” argument which is another one that feels a ridiculous to even keep suggesting. For that to fully hold up, there would need to be a functioning relationship there to betray but Finn was removed from the family for most of their existence, and none of them really prioritized bringing him back. That doesn’t mean you have to get everything about his character, but looking at it without bias does add context to why he doesn’t feel loyalty toward them.

I’m not saying Finn is perfect r that his actions should be excused (i.e hope) but I do think his character makes a lot more sense when you consider what he experienced and how little chance he had to grow beyond it if anything, he’s an example of what happens when someone is denied time, agency, and connection for centuries you end up with someone who is emotionally stuck, deeply resentful, and completely committed to one belief.

At the end of the day, part of this probably comes down to how the story is framed by the narrative centers around the other Mikaelsons so we’re naturally pushed to understand and root for them.

Finn, by opposing them is positioned as the problem and while that doesn’t mean people are wrong for disliking him It just means there’s another way to look at his character that often gets overlooked. I just think Finn is one of those characters who should not be judged do quickly over suck bias opinion instead of actual stuff from canon or stuff that you just want to intereupt and call canon and look at a little more closely, without immediately filtering everything through how we feel about the rest of his family.