I came across the Wiktionary entry for പ്രാവശ്യം (prāvaśyaṁ):

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E0%B4%AA%E0%B5%8D%E0%B4%B0%E0%B4%BE%E0%B4%B5%E0%B4%B6%E0%B5%8D%E0%B4%AF%E0%B4%82

The page currently states:

"Borrowed from Sanskrit प्रावश्य (prāvaśya)."

I think this etymology should be corrected.

The first problem is that the supposed Sanskrit source प्रावश्य (prāvaśya) is itself a red link on Wiktionary. There is no actual Sanskrit entry for it. I also cannot find prāvaśya in the Monier-Williams Sanskrit-English Dictionary, Apte's Practical Sanskrit-English Dictionary, or CDIAL.

There is also some very interesting evidence in Hermann Gundert's A Malayalam and English Dictionary:

https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/gundert_query.py?page=743

Gundert's entry reads:

പ്രാവശ്യം prāvaśyam (mod.) "Time, turn; in Trav. അനേകം പ്രാവേശം; also നാലു പ്രാവിശ്യം ആളെ അയച്ചു TR."

The important point is (mod.), which Gundert uses to indicate Modern. He does not mark പ്രാവശ്യം with S., his explicit abbreviation for Sanskrit.

This becomes particularly significant when we look at the entries immediately following it. Gundert explicitly marks Sanskrit words with S.:

• പ്രാവൃള്‍ S. (പ്ര + വൃഷ്)
• പ്രാശനം S. (പ്ര + അശ്)
• പ്രാശ്നികന്‍ S. (പ്രശ്ന)
• പ്രാസം S. (പ്ര + അസ്)
• പ്രാസാദം S. (സദ്)
• പ്രാഹ്ണം S. (അഹ:)

So Gundert clearly knew how to identify and mark Sanskrit vocabulary, yet പ്രാവശ്യം is marked "(mod.)", not "S."

He also gives the historical citation:

നാലു പ്രാവിശ്യം ആളെ അയച്ചു TR.

Here TR = Tellicherry Records, giving us an actual Malayalam attestation in the period represented by those records.

As a native Malayalam speaker and a hobby linguist, my own reading is that പ്രാവശ്യം is more plausibly a Malayalam-internal, relatively modern coinage, possibly a Sanskrit-flavoured formation. The form certainly looks Sanskritic, and Malayalam already has familiar forms such as അവശ്യം (avaśyaṁ) "necessarily" and ആവശ്യം (āvaśyaṁ) "necessity, requirement".

But that does not establish that प्रावश्य (prāvaśya) itself ever existed in Sanskrit.

So I think the Wiktionary entry should be corrected. The present statement that Malayalam പ്രാവശ്യം is "borrowed from Sanskrit प्रावश्य" presents an unsupported Sanskrit etymology as established fact, even though the alleged Sanskrit source is not actually attested in the sources I've been able to find, and Gundert himself treats the Malayalam word as modern, not Sanskrit.

If anyone can produce an actual Sanskrit textual attestation of प्रावश्य (prāvaśya), preferably an independent historical source rather than another dictionary copying this etymology, I'd be very interested to see it. Otherwise, I think the etymology should be changed to reflect the possibility of a Malayalam-internal formation rather than asserting a Sanskrit borrowing.

I am putting together a list of common and traditional Malayalam names for trees and woods used as timber, specifically species native to South India.

• തേക്ക് (thekku) - Teak, Tectona grandis - DEDR 3452
• ഈട്ടി / ഇരൂൾ (eetti / irul) - Blackwood, Dalbergia spp. - DEDR 483
• ആഞ്ഞിലി (aanjili) - Wild jack, Artocarpus hirsutus - DEDR 365
• വേങ്ങ (venga / vengai) - Malabar kino, Pterocarpus marsupium - DEDR 5520
• ഇരുമ്പകം (irumpakam) - Ironwood - irumpu "iron / dark metal" (DEDR 486) + akam "inside / heart / mind" (DEDR 7)
• വട്ട / വട്ടമരം / ഉപ്പില / ഉപ്പൂത്തി / തൊടുകണ്ണി / വട്ടക്കണ്ണി (vatta / vattamaram / uppila / uppoothi / thodukanni / vattakkanni) - Macaranga peltata. The various names refer to the tree's form, its sticky resinous secretion, and regional usage. Thodukanni contains thodu "to touch, handle, join" (DEDR 3480) + kan "eye / prominent spot or node" (DEDR 1159).
• മട്ടി (matti) - Ailanthus triphysa - DEDR 4658. Related to mat- / mattu, referring to thick sediment, residue, clay-like matter or gum. Mattippaal is the thick, milky exudate of the tree.

What are the corresponding names in Tamil, Kannada, Telugu, Tulu, Kodava and other Dravidian languages?

It would be especially useful to get older or regional names, along with the species they refer to, where known.

I've been looking at the Malayalam words for house/home, and something interesting stands out.

Two important Malayalam words are:

• ഇല്ലം (illam) - DEDR 494
• മന (mana) - DEDR 4776

Both have Proto-Dravidian roots.

DEDR 494 reconstructs PDr. *il "house", while DEDR 4776 reconstructs PDr. *man-ay "house".

So these are not words that originated in medieval Kerala or were coined for Brahmin residences. Their lexical ancestry goes much further back, long before the historical establishment of Brahmin communities in South India.

And the comparative evidence makes this even more interesting.

For il:

PDr. *il "house"

-> Tamil il / illam
-> Malayalam il / illam
-> Tulu illu
-> Telugu illu
-> other Dravidian forms

The word clearly belongs to a much wider Dravidian vocabulary of "house/home."

Likewise for man-ay:

PDr. *man-ay "house"

-> Tamil manai = house, dwelling, household, family, etc.
-> Kannada mane = ordinary house/home
-> Tulu manè = house/home
-> Malayalam mana

And here we get the interesting divergence.

In Kannada, mane is simply the normal word for house/home, regardless of caste.

In Malayalam, however, mana and illam became strongly associated with Brahmin/Nambudiri residences and households.

So why?

I wonder if we are looking at this the wrong way when we ask simply:

"Why did the meaning of mana change from 'house' to 'Brahmin house'?"

There is another possibility.

Malayalam has a whole collection of inherited words covering house, home, dwelling, abode and residence.

A survey of Travancore and Cochin from 1816-1820 records exactly this pattern:

• Nambuthiri: illam / mana
• Nair: veedu
• Naduvazhi: idam / kuttala
• Raja: kovilakam / kottaram
• Ambalavasi: pisharam / variyam
• Chaliyar / weavers: kudi
• Thiyyan: pura
• Cheruman: chala
• Mappila: pidika

And historically, these words did not necessarily function as completely interchangeable synonyms. Kerala developed a strongly caste- and status-differentiated social system, and residential terminology appears to have become socially differentiated along with it.

So perhaps the process was not simply:

"house" -> "Brahmin house"

but something more like:

old generic Dravidian house-words

-> different words continue competing within Malayalam

-> particular words become associated with particular kinds of households/residences

-> those associations become socially ranked

-> illam/mana become strongly identified with Brahmin residences

This would also explain the Kannada comparison rather neatly.

Kannada retained mane as the unmarked, general word for house, so it did not undergo the same social specialisation.

Malayalam, meanwhile, had other words such as veedu occupying the general "house" space, allowing mana and illam to become socially marked.

So the Brahmin association of illam and mana may be better understood not as a change in the basic lexical meaning of these ancient words, but as a reorganisation of an inherited residential vocabulary according to Kerala's social hierarchy.

B. B. Lal’s 1960 paper, From the Megalithic to the Harappa: Tracing back the Graffiti on the Pottery, contains a map titled “India: Graffiti-Bearing Sites Mentioned in the Text.”

https://preview.redd.it/cm067bekk0nh1.png?width=662&format=png&auto=webp&s=0d2e53f25ffceedb630da6337da1f0a224a88064

What immediately stands out to me is the direction of the distribution.

The graffiti-bearing sites shown by Lal extend predominantly southward from the Harappan/Indus region through Gujarat and the Deccan and into peninsular India.

What is striking is the lack of a corresponding eastward distribution.

There is no comparable chain of graffiti-bearing sites extending eastward from the IVC heartland across the Gangetic region. The concentration is overwhelmingly along a southward trajectory.

If these graffiti traditions do represent some form of cultural transmission from the Harappan/post-Harappan world, this geographical pattern would therefore seem more compatible with a southward movement or transmission route than with an eastward one.

But there is another interesting aspect to this.

The major Neolithic ash-mound sites of the Deccan and South India are conspicuously absent from Lal's graffiti-bearing distribution.

For example:

Karnataka
Budihal (Gulbarga), Sanganakallu & Chaudammagudda (Bellary), Tekkalakota, Piklihal, Maski, Budikanama/Kudatini.

Andhra Pradesh and Telangana
Utnur, Kodekal, Palavoy, Nagarjunakonda.

Tamil Nadu
Paiyampalli.

These are major sites associated with the southern Neolithic cattle-herding/ash-mound tradition, yet the principal ash-mound centres do not appear as a corresponding concentration of graffiti-bearing sites.

This creates an interesting chronological problem.

Domesticated zebu cattle were already present in the northwestern subcontinent by around 7000 BCE. By approximately 2600 BCE, the southern Neolithic ash-mound sites show evidence of substantial cattle husbandry, including the enormous accumulations of burnt dung and ash characteristic of the ash-mound phenomenon.

If such large cattle-herding operations were already established in the Deccan by ~2600 BCE, then the populations managing these herds would presumably have required an earlier period of migration, settlement and establishment of the herding system.

I therefore wonder whether a southward movement of cattle-herding populations from the broader IVC periphery may have begun around 3000 BCE or thereabouts.

If so, this movement would have preceded the Mature Harappan phase.

That would have an important consequence for the graffiti question.

The initial population movement into the southern Deccan would have occurred before the Mature Harappan script tradition had developed. Therefore, the cattle-herding populations responsible for the early southern Neolithic/ash-mound horizon could not have carried the Mature Harappan script south with them.

This would fit the archaeological pattern:

Early southward movement of cattle-herding populations -> southern Neolithic settlement
-> ash-mound cattle-husbandry tradition (~2600 BCE) -> predominantly no graffiti

The graffiti-bearing evidence appears to belong instead to later archaeological contexts, toward the end of the Chalcolithic and into the Megalithic horizon.

This makes the later southern graffiti particularly interesting.

Rather than assuming that the graffiti was brought south by the original cattle-herding population, perhaps it represents a second southward movement or cultural transmission, associated with populations from the Harappan world during its decline and after the collapse of the urban phase.

In that scenario, the geographical pattern on Lal's map becomes significant:

Harappan/Indus region -> Gujarat -> Deccan -> South India

with comparatively little corresponding graffiti-bearing distribution toward the east.

That could indicate that whatever population movement or cultural transmission was responsible for the later southern graffiti had a strong southward vector.

So perhaps we should distinguish between two different southward processes:

Earlier, c. 3000 BCE onward:
Cattle-herding populations move south -> establish the southern Neolithic/ash-mound tradition -> no significant graffiti tradition

Later, during and after the decline of the IVC:
Post-urban Harappan populations/traditions move or transmit southward -> late Chalcolithic/Megalithic contexts -> graffiti appears

I am not claiming that this proves the southern graffiti is the Harappan script. The argument is narrower.

The interesting question is whether the geographical southward concentration of graffiti-bearing sites, combined with their later chronological position and the predominantly graffiti-free earlier ash-mound horizon, is evidence for a later southward movement from the declining/post-decline Harappan world, rather than a single continuous migration associated with the original spread of cattle pastoralism into the southern Deccan.

There’s an interesting pattern in Dravidian words for “mother,” but the more I looked into it, the less it seemed like a simple story of amma replacing the same old word everywhere.

In Malayalam, the older native word for “mother” is തള്ള (thalla), DEDR 3136. It’s still around, but its meaning and usage have changed quite a bit. Today, thalla can mean “old woman,” and it can also be used disrespectfully for someone’s mother. The normal, neutral and respectful word is now അമ്മ (amma), DEDR 183.

What’s interesting about the Malayalam case is that thalla didn’t just disappear. It survived, but got pushed into a rougher, more dismissive kind of usage.

Looking at other Dravidian languages makes things even more interesting.

Tulu: Tulu has another old word for “mother,” appe, but it’s from a different root (DEDR 156). The DEDR entry gives Tulu appè “mother” and appa as a way of addressing a mother. Amma has become the normal word instead. So Tulu is similar to Malayalam in the broad sense that an older native mother-word lost ground to amma, but the two older words aren't related. It’s the same kind of change, not the same word.

Tamil: Tamil has the old word தள்ளை (thaḷḷai), meaning “mother.” It’s an old word and is even found in a Tolkappiyam commentary (தொல். சொல். 400), where it is glossed as தாய் (tāy). But unlike Malayalam thalla, it doesn’t seem to have picked up a coarse or insulting meaning. It mostly just faded out of everyday speech. Modern Tamil uses அம்மா (ammā) in normal conversation, while தாய் (tāy) and அன்னை (aṉṉai) are more formal or literary. So in Tamil, thaḷḷai seems to have simply become archaic rather than turning into an insult.

Telugu: Telugu is different again. తల్లి (talli), from the same old root as Malayalam thalla and Tamil thaḷḷai, is still very much alive as a word for “mother.” It can have a respectful or elevated feel and is common in religious and literary contexts. It also appears in Telugu Talli, the personification of the Telugu language and people. Amma exists alongside it as the familiar, everyday word. So I wouldn't describe Telugu as talli being replaced by amma. The two have basically settled into different roles and registers.

There’s another interesting detail in the DEDR entry for this root. Telugu tal(l)i is given not only as “mother,” but also with meanings like “original, first, principal, chief, main.” Malayalam seems to preserve this other sense too. For example, taḷḷaviral literally means “chief finger,” meaning the thumb. So the root wasn't only being used for the mother/kinship meaning. It also had this broader idea of something being first, main or principal.

Kannada: Kannada makes the whole thing even less straightforward. DEDR 3136 doesn't list a Kannada reflex of the taḷḷ-/talli “mother” root. Kannada dictionaries do have ತಲ್ಲಿ (talli), but it is glossed as “a youthful woman,” not “mother.” If that word is actually related, then Kannada seems to have taken the meaning quite far away from the original kinship sense.

But Kannada has another older native word for “mother”: avva/avve/abbe, which comes from a different root. That word has also lost ground to amma in modern Kannada. So Kannada may show the same broader trend of amma becoming more dominant over an older native mother-word, but it isn't the thalla/talli root we're looking at in Malayalam, Tamil and Telugu.

So the outcomes are actually pretty different.

For the old taḷḷ-/talli root:

Malayalam: “mother” -> survives in coarse/dismissive usage

Tamil: “mother” -> mostly becomes archaic/rare, without an obvious negative meaning

Telugu: “mother” -> remains alive, especially in respectful, formal and elevated usage

Kannada: no “mother” reflex listed under DEDR 3136; talli survives with a different meaning, “youthful woman”

And for the broader spread of amma:

Tulu: appe -> amma

Kannada: avva/avve/abbe -> increasing use of amma

Malayalam: thalla -> amma, with thalla surviving in a coarse/dismissive register

So I don't think this is a case where we can simply say “amma replaced the old Dravidian word for mother.” What we seem to be seeing is amma becoming dominant in several languages, while the older mother-words took very different paths. Tulu and Kannada involve different old roots, while Malayalam, Tamil and Telugu give us three very different outcomes for the old taḷḷ-/talli word itself; it became coarse, became archaic, or stayed alive in a more elevated role.

This post is a further development of my comment on another Reddit post in this same subreddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/bhartiya_languages/comments/1w25aha/what_does_word_%E0%B0%A4%E0%B0%B2%E0%B0%B2_refers_to_in_telugu/

****
There’s an interesting pattern in Dravidian words for “mother,” but the more I looked into it, the less it seemed like a simple story of amma replacing the same old word everywhere.

In Malayalam, the older native word for “mother” is തള്ള (thalla), DEDR 3136. It’s still around, but its meaning and usage have changed quite a bit. Today, thalla can mean “old woman,” and it can also be used disrespectfully for someone’s mother. The normal, neutral and respectful word is now അമ്മ (amma), DEDR 183.

What’s interesting about the Malayalam case is that thalla didn’t just disappear. It survived, but got pushed into a rougher, more dismissive kind of usage.

Looking at other Dravidian languages makes things even more interesting.

Tulu: Tulu has another old word for “mother,” appe, but it’s from a different root (DEDR 156). The DEDR entry gives Tulu appè “mother” and appa as a way of addressing a mother. Amma has become the normal word instead. So Tulu is similar to Malayalam in the broad sense that an older native mother-word lost ground to amma, but the two older words aren't related. It’s the same kind of change, not the same word.

Tamil: Tamil has the old word தள்ளை (thaḷḷai), meaning “mother.” It’s an old word and is even found in a Tolkappiyam commentary (தொல். சொல். 400), where it is glossed as தாய் (tāy). But unlike Malayalam thalla, it doesn’t seem to have picked up a coarse or insulting meaning. It mostly just faded out of everyday speech. Modern Tamil uses அம்மா (ammā) in normal conversation, while தாய் (tāy) and அன்னை (aṉṉai) are more formal or literary. So in Tamil, thaḷḷai seems to have simply become archaic rather than turning into an insult.

Telugu: Telugu is different again. తల్లి (talli), from the same old root as Malayalam thalla and Tamil thaḷḷai, is still very much alive as a word for “mother.” It can have a respectful or elevated feel and is common in religious and literary contexts. It also appears in Telugu Talli, the personification of the Telugu language and people. Amma exists alongside it as the familiar, everyday word. So I wouldn't describe Telugu as talli being replaced by amma. The two have basically settled into different roles and registers.

There’s another interesting detail in the DEDR entry for this root. Telugu tal(l)i is given not only as “mother,” but also with meanings like “original, first, principal, chief, main.” Malayalam seems to preserve this other sense too. For example, taḷḷaviral literally means “chief finger,” meaning the thumb. So the root wasn't only being used for the mother/kinship meaning. It also had this broader idea of something being first, main or principal.

Kannada: Kannada makes the whole thing even less straightforward. DEDR 3136 doesn't list a Kannada reflex of the taḷḷ-/talli “mother” root. Kannada dictionaries do have ತಲ್ಲಿ (talli), but it is glossed as “a youthful woman,” not “mother.” If that word is actually related, then Kannada seems to have taken the meaning quite far away from the original kinship sense.

But Kannada has another older native word for “mother”: avva/avve/abbe, which comes from a different root. That word has also lost ground to amma in modern Kannada. So Kannada may show the same broader trend of amma becoming more dominant over an older native mother-word, but it isn't the thalla/talli root we're looking at in Malayalam, Tamil and Telugu.

So the outcomes are actually pretty different.

For the old taḷḷ-/talli root:

Malayalam: “mother” -> survives in coarse/dismissive usage

Tamil: “mother” -> mostly becomes archaic/rare, without an obvious negative meaning

Telugu: “mother” -> remains alive, especially in respectful, formal and elevated usage

Kannada: no “mother” reflex listed under DEDR 3136; talli survives with a different meaning, “youthful woman”

And for the broader spread of amma:

Tulu: appe -> amma

Kannada: avva/avve/abbe -> increasing use of amma

Malayalam: thalla -> amma, with thalla surviving in a coarse/dismissive register

So I don't think this is a case where we can simply say “amma replaced the old Dravidian word for mother.” What we seem to be seeing is amma becoming dominant in several languages, while the older mother-words took very different paths. Tulu and Kannada involve different old roots, while Malayalam, Tamil and Telugu give us three very different outcomes for the old taḷḷ-/talli word itself; it became coarse, became archaic, or stayed alive in a more elevated role.

DEDR references

DEDR 364
https://kolichala.com/DEDR/index.php?mode=simple&q=364&esb=0&lsg=0&emb=0&meaning=&tgt=unicode2&fuzzy=1

DEDR 3136
https://kolichala.com/DEDR/index.php?mode=simple&q=3136&esb=0&lsg=0&emb=0&meaning=&tgt=unicode2&fuzzy=1

I came across malla-yuddha (“wrestling”) and started wondering about the etymology of malla.

At first glance, malla looks like an obvious Sanskrit word, especially because Sanskrit has malla- “wrestler, boxer, athlete, strong man” and malla-yuddha is a Sanskrit compound.

But the Dravidian evidence is interesting.

DEDR 4730 gives:

• Ta. mal, mallam “wrestling, boxing”; mallaṉ “wrestler, pugilist”
• Ma. mallu “wrestling”; mallan “wrestler, boxer”
• Ka. malla “wrestler, boxer, athlete”; mallāṭa “strife, struggle”
• Tu. malle “boxer, wrestler”
• Te. mallu “wrestling”; malluḍu “wrestler, boxer”

So this is clearly not just an isolated Malayalam/Tamil resemblance. There is a substantial Dravidian distribution.

More importantly, Turner’s CDIAL 9907 explicitly gives Sanskrit malla “wrestler by profession, athlete” and says:

>

So according to Turner, the direction is Dravidian → Indo-Aryan, rather than Sanskrit → Dravidian.

This means that in malla-yuddha, the two elements appear to have different histories:

malla ← Dravidian mallaṉ “wrestler”
yuddha ← inherited Indo-European yudh- “to fight”

The same malla also occurs in mallakhamba, where khamba is from Sanskrit skambha- “pillar, post.”

I've been compiling a list of traditional Malayalam kitchen utensils and food-processing equipment, checking the terminology against Malayalam dictionaries and comparative Dravidian sources rather than assuming that a word is native simply because it is old or commonly used in Malayalam.

What I find interesting is the mixture of inherited Dravidian vocabulary, productive Malayalam compounds, Sanskrit borrowings, and later foreign loans.

Basic utensils with clear Dravidian connections

• കലം (kalam): pot, vessel
• ചട്ടി (chatti): cooking pot/pan
• ഉരുളി (uruli): large, broad cooking vessel
• വാർപ്പ് (varppu): large, shallow cooking vessel used for large-scale cooking
• ചെമ്പ് (cempu): copper / copper vessel
• കിണ്ണം (kinnam): metal cup/drinking vessel
• കിണ്ടി (kinti): small metal water/drinking vessel, usually with a spout
• മുറം (muram): winnowing tray
• ഉരൽ (ural): mortar
• ഉലക്ക (ulakka): pestle
• അമ്മി (ammi): grinding stone
• കത്തി (katti): knife
• ചിരവ (cirava): coconut scraper
• മത്ത് (mathu): churner
• അരിപ്പ (arippa): sieve / strainer
• കൊടിൽ (kotil): tongs / pincers
• ചവണ (cavana): pincers/nippers/snuffers

The comparative evidence is particularly interesting for these terms.

കൊടിൽ (kotil) is represented in DEDR 2052: Tamil kotiru "pincers", Malayalam kotil "tongs", and Kota kor "hook of tongs".

ചവണ (cavana) is supported by the Dravidian lexical material in DEDR 1325, which includes the semantic field of forking, prongs, forked sticks, cleavage and related implements, with Malayalam forms such as kava, kavati, kavaram and kavar. Malayalam dictionaries give cavana as pincers, nippers and snuffers. ചവണ (cavana) can therefore be classified as Dravidian.

For കിണ്ണം (kinnam), DEDR 1543 gives cognates across Tamil, Malayalam, Toda, Tulu, Telugu, Gondi, Konda and Kuwi. കിണ്ടി (kinti) is covered by DEDR 1541, with cognates across several Dravidian languages and an explicit cross-reference to kinnam.

Productive Malayalam compounds

A large part of the terminology is transparently formed within Malayalam:

• മൺചട്ടി (man-chatti): earthen cooking pot
• അമ്മിക്കല്ല് (ammikkallu): grinding stone
• അരകല്ല് (arakallu): wet-grinding stone
• ആട്ടുകല്ല് (attukallu): rotary grinding stone
• തവിടുമുറം (tavitu-muram): winnowing tray for chaff
• വെട്ടുകത്തി (vettukatti): heavy chopping knife
• അരിപ്പക്കരണ്ടി (arippa-karanti): slotted spoon / skimmer
• ചായയരിപ്പ (caya-arippa): tea strainer
• പുട്ടുക്കുറ്റി (puttukutti): puttu steaming tube
• സേവനാഴി (sevanali): press/extruder used for idiyappam, noolputtu and similar preparations
• ഉണ്ണിയപ്പച്ചട്ടി (unniyappachatti): unniyappam pan
• ദോശക്കല്ല് (dosha-kallu): dosa griddle
• പരണിക്കിണ്ണം (parani-kinnam): earthen plate

The സേവനാഴി (sevanali) is a good example of how dictionary definitions need to be understood in context. Olam defines it as an implement for making സേവ, but the same type of press is used in Kerala for ഇടിയപ്പം (idiyappam) / നൂൽപ്പുട്ട് (noolputtu), with different perforated plates/apertures for different preparations.

Traditional large-scale cooking and storage equipment

• തുടുപ്പ് (tutuppu): long wooden stirring implement for large cooking vessels
• വാർപ്പ് (varppu): large shallow cooking vessel
• അപ്പച്ചെമ്പ് (appacembu): steaming vessel
• പത്തായം (pattayam): large grain-storage chest/grain bin

പത്തായം (pattayam) is particularly interesting because it is not Dravidian despite being thoroughly established in Malayalam. Gundert defines it as a large chest for keeping rice/grain, while the Tamil Lexicon explicitly derives pattayam from Portuguese pataya.

Sanskrit and other borrowings

There are also clear non-Dravidian elements:

• ഭാണ്ഡം (bhandam): vessel/pot; Sanskrit borrowing
• ഭരണി (bharani): vase/jar; Sanskrit-derived
• പരണി (parani): tadbhava form of bharani, vase/jar
• ചട്ടുകം (chattukam): ladle/spatula; Sanskrit-derived
• പിഞ്ഞാണം (pinnanam): porcelain/chinaware, dishes, plates and cups; Gundert gives finjan
• ചീനച്ചട്ടി (chinachatti): iron cooking pan/wok; a descriptive compound using ചീന (china), "Chinese", and native ചട്ടി (chatti)
• പത്തായം (pattayam): grain-storage chest/bin; Portuguese-derived
• കപ്പ് (kappu): cup; English loan
• ഗ്ലാസ് (glas): glass; English loan

പരണിക്കിണ്ണം (parani-kinnam) is particularly interesting because it combines a Sanskrit-derived parani with the Dravidian കിണ്ണം (kinnam) to form a Malayalam compound meaning an earthen plate.

What I find interesting is that the basic vocabulary of traditional food preparation contains a substantial Dravidian layer, while Malayalam has also continuously created transparent compounds around those inherited words and incorporated vocabulary from Sanskrit and later contact languages.

I'm interested in finding more traditional Malayalam kitchen utensils, vessels, grinding implements, storage equipment and food-processing tools, particularly where there is good dictionary or comparative Dravidian evidence for the terminology.

What should be added to the list?

I recently started wondering about the etymology of ചന്ദനം (candanam) in Malayalam / चन्दन (candana) in Sanskrit. My initial assumption was that it was simply Sanskrit-derived, perhaps connected with the Sanskrit root cand-, “to shine, be bright.”

But looking into it led me down a rather interesting rabbit hole.

DEDR 2448 reconstructs a Dravidian lexical set around *cāntu, including:

• Tamil சாந்து (cāntu) = sandalwood, sandal paste
• Tamil சாந்தம் (cāntam) = sandal
• Tamil சாத்து (cāttu) = to daub, smear, anoint
• Malayalam ചാന്ത് (cāntŭ) = sandal paste, compound ointment, etc.
• Kannada sādu, sāndu = fragrant substance, perfume
• Kodagu caṇḍï = sandalwood
• Telugu cādu = to rub into a paste

DEDR 2448 then specifically compares Sanskrit candana- “sandal (tree, wood, paste)” and notes the later Dravidian forms such as Telugu candanamu as borrowings from Sanskrit.

Even more interestingly, Asko Parpola, in a 2023 paper discussing Malayalam cantanam/candanam, explicitly writes that Sanskrit candana- “is ultimately of Dravidian origin (DEDR 2448).”

So this raises a few questions for me:

Is Sanskrit candana actually an old Dravidian loanword, ultimately related to the cāntu/cāntam word found in Tamil and other Dravidian languages?

If so:

1. What is the proposed phonological pathway from Dravidian cāntu to Sanskrit candana?
2. Is there any credible PIE or Proto-Indo-Iranian etymology for candana, or is the word absent from the inherited Indo-European vocabulary?
3. What exactly is the status of the traditional Sanskrit connection with cand- “to shine”? Is that considered a genuine etymology, or could it be a later Sanskrit reinterpretation of an already borrowed word?
4. DEDR also mentions Kauṭilya's sātana- as a type of sandalwood. Is that related to the same Dravidian lexical set?

I'm particularly interested in whether the Dravidian → Sanskrit direction is actually established, and how the sound changes are supposed to work.

The Malayalam word തടവറ (taṭavaṟa) means prison/jail. What makes it interesting is that Malayalam also has the separate word തടവ് (taṭav), meaning imprisonment, confinement.

DEDR 3031 gives:

Tamil
taṭavu = prison

Malayalam
taṭavu = what resists, wards off; a prison

So Tamil has தடவு (taṭavu) directly meaning prison, whereas Malayalam distinguishes തടവ് (taṭav), imprisonment/confinement, from തടവറ (taṭavaṟa), prison/jail.

The second part of തടവറ is അറ (aṟa), a well-established Dravidian word meaning room, chamber, cell, compartment, partition.

DEDR 322 gives:

Tamil
aṟai = room, apartment, chamber, cell, drawer, compartment, square on a chessboard

Malayalam
aṟa = partition, room, magazine, treasury

Telugu
aṟa = room, chamber, partition or division
aṟṟa = room, chamber, partition or division

Kannada
aṟe = room, chamber, compartment

Tulu
adè = inner room, small room

This makes തടവറ (taṭavaṟa) quite transparent

തടവ് + അറ
taṭav + aṟa
confinement + chamber/cell

In other words, a chamber/place of confinement, hence prison.
The same അറ (aṟa) occurs in other familiar Malayalam compounds:

അണിയറ (aṇiyaṟa), a room or chamber for dressing, adornment and preparation, hence dressing room or backstage.

മണിയറ (maṇiyaṟa), the bridal chamber, the private room associated with the bride and the wedding night.

There is another interesting comparison in the older Tamil and Malayalam vocabulary.

The Tamil சிறை (ciṟai) is the ordinary word for prison today, but its semantic range is much broader. The University of Madras Tamil Lexicon gives:

சிறை (ciṟai)

1. Guard, defence, watch
2. Confinement, restraint, incarceration
3. Prison, jail, place of confinement
4. Captivity, slavery, bondage
5. Captive, slave
6. Dam, bank
7. Tank
8. Fort-wall, surrounding wall of a city
9. Boundary
10. Wing, feather

This corresponds to DEDR 1980, which gives:

ciṟai = to restrain, imprison, dam up; noun: guard, confinement, prison, captivity; dam, bank, tank, boundary.

The same DEDR entry contains the related ceṟi / ceṟu forms:

ceṟi = to be thick, crowded, tightly joined; to be controlled, keep within bounds; to join together, tighten, shut, close, block up, secure, store up, pack closely.

ceṟu = to control, hinder, prevent, overcome; to suppress, subdue, resist, prevent the passage.

ceṟuppu = restriction.

Malayalam preserves this same semantic family:

ചെറിയുക (ceṟiyuka) = to be thronged/crowded
ചെറുക്കുക (ceṟukkuka) = to dam up, enclose, oppose, prevent, resist
ചിറ (ciṟa) = enclosure, dam, limit, prison, tank/reservoir

Gundert explicitly derives ചിറ (ciṟa) from ചെറുക and ചെറുക്കുക, and gives prison alongside enclosure, dam, limit, and tank.

So there is a recurring semantic pattern:

crowding → restriction → enclosure → confinement → prison

But തടവറ (taṭavaṟa) takes a particularly transparent morphological route. Malayalam has തടവ് (taṭav) for the state of confinement and adds അറ (aṟa), a word meaning room/chamber/cell, to form the word for the physical place of confinement.

This gives a neat Malayalam distinction:

തടവ് (taṭav) = confinement/imprisonment
തടവറ (taṭavaṟa) = the chamber/place of confinement → prison

while Tamil has:

தடவு (taṭavu) = prison

The interesting point is that അറ (aṟa) in തടവറ is not merely a formal suffix. It is an independently attested Dravidian word for an enclosed or divided room, chamber, cell or compartment, as shown by DEDR 322.

I've been looking into the etymology of Sanskrit kavāṭa/kapāṭa, Tamil கபாடம் (kapāṭam), and Malayalam കവാടം (kavāṭam), and I've come across something that I'm struggling to reconcile.

The Malayalam dictionaries simply gloss the words as "door" or "folding door":

Gundert's Malayalam Lexicon: കവാടം (kavāṭam) / കപാടം (kapāṭam) – "Folding door."
https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/gundert_query.py?page=222#gsc.tab=0

Śabdatharāvali treats കവാടം (kavāṭam) and കപാടം (kapāṭam) as variants meaning "door."
https://stv.sayahna.org/stv-ka.html

The University of Madras Tamil Lexicon gives:

>கபாடம் (kapāṭam) < Skt. kapāṭa

https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/tamil-lex_query.py?page=722#gsc.tab=0

Looking at the Sanskrit side, CDIAL (2963) has:

>kavāṭa m.n., kapāṭa ... "leaf of a door" ... perhaps ← Dravidian

https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/soas_query.py?page=151#gsc.tab=0

Mayrhofer (KEWA) discusses the possible Dravidian origin under kaváṣa-, where he states:

>Dravidischer Ursprung des frühen Wortes ... ist nicht ganz sicher.

("The Dravidian origin of the early word is not entirely certain.")

He compares it with Tamil கவடு (kavaṭu) "forked branch" and refers to Burrow's proposal.

That comparison corresponds to DEDR 1325, which reconstructs a Dravidian root with meanings such as fork, bifurcation, split, forked branch, etc.

https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/burrow_query.py?page=486

This is where I'm puzzled.

Semantically, dvāra refers to the opening or entrance, whereas kavāṭa/kapāṭa refers to the door or shutter; the movable closure that closes or seals the entrance.

That made me wonder whether the Proto-Dravidian root reconstructed in DEDR 1221 (kap-, kapp-, kaw- "to cover, overspread, envelop") might provide a more natural semantic motivation:

>cover → covering → door/shutter

rather than:

>fork/split → two leaves → door

especially since kavāṭa/kapāṭa is not inherently a double-leaf door.

DEDR 1221:

https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/burrow_query.py?page=466

I welcome all inputs and discussions on this.

An interesting semantic shift in the Dravidian languages involves மேனி (mēṉi) in Tamil and മേനി (mēni) in Malayalam.

Historically, the word meant body, form, appearance, and beauty. The University of Madras Tamil Lexicon also records a seemingly unrelated meaning: "average crop or yield of a harvest."

How does a word for the human body end up meaning agricultural yield?

The missing link is preserved in Gundert's Malayalam-English Dictionary. Besides body and beauty/excellence, Gundert also defines മേനി as "a sample, sort, measure." That intermediate meaning neatly bridges the gap between the physical and agricultural senses.

The semantic development appears to be

body / shape → beauty / excellence → sample / standard / measure → average produce → yield

Gundert's examples show this progression in use:

• മൂന്നു മേനി നിലം (mūnnu mēni nilam) — land returning three- or four-fold.
• മൂന്നാംതരം നിലങ്ങള്‍ 10 മേനി വിളയും (mūnnām-taram nilaṅṅaḷ patthu mēni viḷayum) — third-class land yields 10 mēni.
• മേനിപ്പാട്ടം (mēnippāṭṭam) — rent of land calculated on the average produce of different crops.

This also explains expressions like പത്തു മേനി (patthu mēni). Originally, മേനി referred to a standard or measure of productivity before it came to denote the agricultural yield itself.

What's particularly interesting is that this agricultural meaning is attested in both Tamil and Malayalam, suggesting that this semantic development belongs to their shared linguistic history.

Today, however, both languages have largely replaced மேனி / മേനി as the ordinary word for the physical body.

In modern Tamil, the everyday words are உடல் (uṭal) and உடம்பு (uṭampu).

In modern Malayalam, the everyday word is ശരീരം (śarīram), a Sanskrit-derived borrowing, alongside the native Dravidian words ഉടൽ (uṭal) and ഉടമ്പ് (uṭampu).

Yet despite receding from everyday speech as the ordinary word for "body," மேனி / മേനി survives in the lexicons of both languages as a term for average crop or agricultural yield; a remarkable semantic journey from the human body to the productivity of land.

Sources

• University of Madras, Tamil Lexicon (மேனி) https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/tamil-lex_query.py?page=3365#gsc.tab=0
• Hermann Gundert, Malayalam-English Dictionary (മേനി) https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/gundert_query.py?page=859#gsc.tab=0

In Malayalam, Vāvu (വാവ്) is the traditional word associated with the principal lunar days.

Examples include Karutha Vāvu (കറുത്ത വാവ്) for the New Moon, Veḷutha Vāvu (വെളുത്ത വാവ്) for the Full Moon, and Karkkiṭaka Vāvu (കർക്കിടക വാവ്) for the New Moon of the month of Karkkiṭakam, associated with ancestor rites.

The obvious question is: where does the word Vāvu (വാവ്) come from?

The answer is surprisingly old.

The first clue comes from Hermann Gundert's Malayalam-English Lexicon.
Under Vāvu (വാവു), Gundert defines it as "a holiday, change of the moon," and records traditional Malayalam expressions such as Karutha Vāvu (കറുത്തവാവു), Veḷutha Vāvu (വെളുത്തവാവു), Pitṛ Vāvu (പിതൃവാവു), Muḻuttha Uvāvu (മുഴുത്ത ഉവാവു) and Karkkaṭa Māsa Vāvu (കർക്കടമാസം വാവു). Significantly, he also derives Vāvu (വാവു) from Uvāvu (ഉവാവു), pointing to an older form behind the modern Malayalam word.

Gundert's Malayalam-English Lexicon:
https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/gundert_query.py?page=938#gsc.tab=0

Following Gundert's lead to Tamil, the Tamil Lexicon records Vāvu (வாவு) as being derived from Uvavu (உவவு). It defines Vāvu (வாவு) as the New Moon day, the Full Moon day, and a holiday, especially on those lunar days. In other words, Vāvu (வாவு) is not treated as the original form but as a later development from Uvavu (உவவு).

Tamil Lexicon – Vāvu (வாவு):
https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/tamil-lex_query.py?page=3620#gsc.tab=0

Looking up Uvavu (உவவு) makes the picture even more interesting. The lexicon defines it as "great pleasure, gladness," "full moon and new moon," and "religious austerity." This shows that the lunar meaning already belonged to Uvavu (உவவு) before the later contraction to Vāvu (வாவு).

Tamil Lexicon – Uvavu (உவவு):
https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/tamil-lex_query.py?page=464#gsc.tab=0

The Dravidian Etymological Dictionary (DEDR 558) traces Uvavu (உவவு) to the Proto-Dravidian root *uva- / *uka-, meaning "to rejoice, be glad, be pleased, desire." It groups together Tamil words such as Uva (உவ), Uvappu (உவப்பு), Uvakai (உவகை) and Uvavu (உவவு), along with Malayalam cognates like Uvakkuka (ഉവക്കുക), Uvappu (ഉവപ്പ്) and Uvavi (ഉവവി), as well as related forms in Kannada, Telugu, Kota and other Dravidian languages. Historically, Uvavu (உவவு) therefore belongs to an ancient Dravidian family of words expressing joy, delight and pleasure.

DEDR 558:
https://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/app/burrow_query.py?page=55#gsc.tab=0

The lunar meaning is already firmly established in Sangam literature.

In Puranānūru 3, Irumpidarthalaiyār compares the Pandyan king's white umbrella to the full moon using the expression Uvavumati (உவவுமதி) Uruvin (உருவின்) Ōṅkal (ஓங்கல்) Veṇkuṭai (வெண்குடை). The traditional commentary glosses Uvavu (உவவு) simply as Muḻu Nilavu (முழு நிலவு) ("full moon"), showing that this meaning was already understood in the Sangam age.

Tamil text, commentary and English translation:
https://sangamtranslationsbyvaidehi.com/ettuthokai-purananuru-1-200/

An even more revealing example appears in Pattinappālai. While describing the Parathavar fishermen, the poem says:

Pāy (பாய்) Irum (இரும்) Paṇikkaṭal (பனிக்கடல்) Vēṭṭam (வேட்டம்) Cellātu (செல்லாது),
Uvavu (உவவு) Maṭintu (மடிந்து) Uṇṭu (உண்டு) Āṭiyum (ஆடியும்).

The traditional commentary again explains Uvavu (உவவு) as Uvā Nāḷ (உவா நாள்), Muḻu Nilavu Nāḷ (முழு நிலவு நாள்) ("the full-moon day"). The passage describes the fishermen refraining from going out to sea and instead feasting and celebrating. This suggests that Uvavu (உவவு) was not merely another poetic word for the moon, but the name of a recognised lunar observance.

Tamil text, commentary and English translation:
https://sangamtranslationsbyvaidehi.com/pathuppattu-pattinappalai/

Taken together, the evidence is remarkably consistent. Gundert preserves the Malayalam word Vāvu (വാവു) and explicitly derives it from Uvāvu (ഉവാവു). The Tamil Lexicon preserves the meanings "joy," "full moon and new moon," and "religious austerity." Sangam literature shows Uvavu (உவவு) already functioning as the name of an important lunar day, while DEDR connects the word to an ancient Proto-Dravidian root meaning "to rejoice" or "be glad."

The exact semantic development from "joy" to the principal lunar days is not explicitly explained by either the Tamil Lexicon or DEDR, so that part remains an interpretation rather than an established conclusion. What the evidence does show, however, is that the Malayalam word Vāvu (വാവ്) is not an isolated regional term. It continues an ancient Dravidian word that can be traced through Tamil Vāvu (வாவு), back to the older Uvavu (உவவு) attested in Sangam literature, and ultimately to a Proto-Dravidian lexical root.

Every time we say Karutha Vāvu (കറുത്ത വാവ്), Veḷutha Vāvu (വെളുത്ത വാവ്) or Karkkiṭaka Vāvu (കർക്കിടക വാവ്), we're using a word whose history can be followed across more than two millennia of Dravidian linguistic history.

If you have your autosomal DNA raw data from companies such as 23andMe, AncestryDNA, MyHeritage, FamilyTreeDNA, LivingDNA, etc., you can generate simulated G25 coordinates for free using GEDmatch's Eurogenes K36 calculator and the Explore Your DNA K36 → G25 Simulator.

This guide uses only free tools.

Step 1: Create a GEDmatch Account

Go to:

https://www.gedmatch.com

Create a free account, or log in if you already have one.

https://preview.redd.it/scr3k4aynldh1.png?width=1766&format=png&auto=webp&s=ac813fe005a4c05ea82c0d0f739c4510b4bc9ac6

Step 2: Upload Your Raw DNA File

https://preview.redd.it/i49klzt9nldh1.png?width=1013&format=png&auto=webp&s=6de284da3d2da876bf0ab4062d8fa6480bf67ea9

From the GEDmatch dashboard, click Upload DNA.

Select the DNA testing company you used and upload your raw DNA file.

Once the upload is complete, GEDmatch will assign your sample a Kit Number (for example, PJ265678).

Depending on server load, it may take anywhere from a few minutes to several hours before your kit is fully processed and all analysis tools become available.

Step 3: Generate Your Eurogenes K36 Results

https://preview.redd.it/yg6d3wbfnldh1.png?width=1805&format=png&auto=webp&s=a6ef53fba9b68e089fca990bbcad91cc711ec53f

From the GEDmatch dashboard:

• Click Free Tools.
• Select Admixture (Heritage).
• Choose Eurogenes as the project.
• Select Eurogenes K36 as the calculator.
• Enter your Kit Number.
• Leave the remaining options at their default settings.
• Click Submit.

GEDmatch will generate your Eurogenes K36 admixture results.

Step 4: Copy Your Eurogenes K36 Results

https://preview.redd.it/un93pj9hnldh1.png?width=1180&format=png&auto=webp&s=ce30ce14149686c2b74c5d74e20b743f27c3bf20

GEDmatch will display your Eurogenes K36 results as a table with Population and Percentage columns.

Select and copy the entire table, including the column headers ("Population" and "Percentage"), from the first entry (Amerindian) to the last (West_Med) (Ctrl+C).

Paste the copied table into a plain text editor such as Notepad. No additional formatting is required.

Save the text file, or simply leave it open for the next step.

Step 5: Generate Your Simulated G25 Coordinates

Go to:

https://www.exploreyourdna.com/Tools/SimulatedG25

https://preview.redd.it/sl8cmt7jnldh1.png?width=1023&format=png&auto=webp&s=4d38abee5f8ab79cd47de9ae37a3f4f67f5758b4

Scroll down to the "Paste your Eurogenes K36 results" section.

Open the text file you created in the previous step and copy its entire contents (Ctrl+A, then Ctrl+C).

Paste the contents into the "Paste your Eurogenes K36 results" box.

The Sample Name field is optional. You may leave it blank or enter any name you prefer.

Click Generate.

Within a few seconds, the simulator will generate your simulated G25 coordinates (scaled).

Click Copy to Clipboard to copy your coordinates.

You can now paste them directly into Vahaduo or any other free tool that accepts G25 coordinates.

Notes

• These are simulated G25 coordinates, not official G25 coordinates.
• They are generated from your Eurogenes K36 admixture profile using a regression model.
• They are compatible with Vahaduo and other free tools that accept G25 coordinates.
• While they are generally a good approximation, they should not be considered identical to G25 coordinates derived directly from genome-wide PCA.

https://preview.redd.it/y9o5j8wvkfch1.jpg?width=796&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9242248cf0b889b45a60519b208dec715f054be

https://preview.redd.it/7vdic24xkfch1.jpg?width=771&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb27f4f8ee890e64c7d9e8f8216868d1ebaded8d

https://preview.redd.it/1zmrvc7ykfch1.jpg?width=752&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1c0b9a9f14fa064830e80187a75ef8262d94ce7f

I recently received my whole-genome sequencing results from Genoconnect, and my archaic ancestry report shows:

• Neanderthal ancestry: 2.38%
• Denisovan ancestry: 1.24%

At first, I thought these values were unusually high, so I started reading the literature.

One of the largest whole-genome studies on Indian populations, published in Cell in 2025, analysed 2,679 Indian genomes and reported that each individual had, on average, ~1.43% Neanderthal ancestry (range: 1.26–1.65%) and ~0.10% Denisovan ancestry (range: 0.03–0.17%).

Paper:
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cell.2025.04.027

That seems quite different from my reported 2.38% Neanderthal and 1.24% Denisovan.

While looking into this further, I came across explanations that academic studies and consumer DNA services may not be measuring exactly the same thing. My understanding is that academic studies estimate archaic ancestry using whole-genome population genetics methods, whereas consumer companies use proprietary algorithms based on selected Neanderthal- and Denisovan-derived SNPs and their own reference datasets. If that's correct, then the percentages may not be directly comparable.

This is where I'm confused.

If I took the exact same WGS data from my Genoconnect test and analysed it using the same pipeline used in the Cell study, would my Neanderthal ancestry likely fall within the 1.26–1.65% range reported for Indians? Likewise, would my Denisovan ancestry also fall closer to the 0.03–0.17% range?

Or are the values of 2.38% Neanderthal and 1.24% Denisovan simply the result of a different methodology used by consumer DNA services?

I'd appreciate hearing from anyone familiar with archaic ancestry estimation or population genetics. I'm not trying to prove that my results are exceptionally high. I just want to understand whether I'm comparing two fundamentally different measurement systems, or whether these values actually stand out.

I'm trying to trace the etymology of the Malayalam word ആരാച്ചാർ (Aarachaar), meaning "executioner" or "hangman."

So far, I've found that modern Malayalam dictionaries define it simply as an executioner, but none explain its origin.

I've checked the following sources:

• Gundert's Malayalam-English Dictionary (1872): no entry for ആരാച്ചാർ.
• ശബ്ദതാരാവലി (Shabdatharavali): no entry for ആരാച്ചാർ.
• Olam: no entry.
• Kerala Government Malayalam Dictionary: has the word, but gives only the meaning ("executioner"), not the etymology.
• Dravidian Etymological Dictionary (Burrow & Emeneau): no corresponding entry or obvious Proto-Dravidian root.

I've also come across various online claims that it comes from Bengali, Persian, Tamil, Sanskrit etc., but none of these claims are accompanied by a reliable reference.

Does anyone know:

• The earliest attested occurrence of ആരാച്ചാർ (Aarachaar) in Malayalam?
• Whether it is a borrowing or a native formation?
• Do cognate forms exist in Tamil, Kannada, Telugu, Tulu, or any Indo-Aryan language?
• Any scholarly dictionary, book, or paper that discusses its etymology?

I'm looking for documented references, not speculation. Any leads would be greatly appreciated.