This statue found at Kalibangan looks very similar to a Shiva Linga. Some people think it is evidence of early Shaivite symbolism. The resemblance is definitely interesting though. What do you all think, it's just a coincidence or could it be a symbol of proto-Shaivism?
source: https://asi.nic.in/pdf/Excavation-at-Kalibangan-Part-II-min-1-compressed_compressed.pdf
On the right hand there is a copper vessel/ kalash which depicts prosperity and *flow of grains/ food* and on the right hand there is a lasso or rope the goddess just depicts prosperity fertility and protection and nothing else and pls do share the pic if any and another addition to them pls do add !!
1. Manjeshwaram Puzha
2. Uppala Puzha
3. Shironiya Puzha
4. Mogral Puzha
5. Chandragiri Puzha
6. Kalanad Puzha
7. Beckal Puzha
8. Chithara Puzha
9. Neeleshwaram Puzha
10. Karyankode Puzha
11. Kavvayi Puzha
12. Peruvamba Puzha
13. Ramapuram Puzha
14. Kuppa Puzha
15. Valapattanam Puzha
16. Anjarakandi Puzha
17. Thalassery Puzha
18. Mahi Puzha (Mayyazhi Puzha)
19. Kuttiyadi Puzha
20. Korapuzha
21. Kallai Puzha
22. Chaliyar
23. Kadalundi Puzha
24. Tirur Puzha
25. Bharatapuzha (Nila)
26. Kecheri Puzha
27. Puzhaykkol Puzha
28. Karuvannur Puzha
29. Chalakkudy Puzha
30. Periyar
31. Muvattupuzha
32. Meenachilaar
33. Manimalaiyar
34. Pambanadi
35. Achankovil
36. Pallikkalar
37. Kallada
38. Ithikkaraiyar
39. Ayroor Puzha
40. Vamanapuram Puzha
41. Karamana
42. Kabani
43. Bhavani
44. Pambar
Would *Murukanṯu be a plausible reconstruction of Murugan (முருகன்)? I’m no expert so any input would be appreciated! Thank you for your time!
While Nagara (ನಗರ) is the commonly used word for city in modern kannada, but in Old Kannada, the word was PoLalu (ಪೊಳಲು).
PoLalu comes from poLe (ಪೊಳೆ), meaning river (in both Old and Modern Kannada). This is because cities were traditionally built near rivers.
Example: The ancient name of Pattadakallu was Kisuvolal (ಕಿಸುವೊಳಲ್).
Kisu (red) + poLal (city) = "The Red City" (referring to the area's red sandstone).
Anyone have any historical reports about the Pandyan Dynasty during the 1300s-1500s period. It seems to be that they lost Madurai but then kept control of the far southern part of their territory in the Tenpandi Nadu region after the Tughlaq Invasions. It seems that period they are known as the Tenkasi Pandyans from then on ruling from Tenkasi. And finally they were deposed completely by the Vijayanagar empire later. Is there any information about what they were up to, did they try to take Madurai back during either the Madurai Sultanate or Vijayanagar period or conflict with either throughout?
There seems to be a variety of answers by historians on how long and in what minor periods the Madurai sultanate actually had influence in their specific region of Tamil Nadu and many seem to think there was a blip of some years where they lost power after they consolidated rule before they got back in power again due to archaeological evidences like periods of certain coinage showing up and disappearing again. Maybe they were overthrown for a short bit of time by the southern Pandyans or another community? Any sources to find out more would be great.
It’s pretty crazy to think about the fact that foreign Islamic invaders (not the religion itself) entered the subcontinent, albeit by a different invading community, around 600 years before reaching Tamilakam. Shows how vastly different historical experiences in South Asia are by region.
Hello, I come from a tribe called vasava ( my family is from surat ) and our own language is vasavai which comes from Indo-European --> Indo-Iranian --> Indo-Aryan --> Western Indo-Aryan --> Gujaratic --> Vasavi but i researched that some of us Mostly have H1a haplogroup and Haplogroup J ( very minor some of us ) and i also tried to find the origin of my surname/ clan i only found it is the sub tribe of bhil nothing much i wasn't even to find the exact meaning of the surname and we mostly worship every major hindu god and only thing i noticed is krishna holds most significance like during last rites i don't know what prayer it is.
Just curious on what would be the possible reconstructible Proto-Dravidian forms of Murugan (முருகன்), Ceyyon (செய்யோன்) and names like Mayon, Ventan, Katalon and Korravai (மாயோன், வேந்தன், கடலோன், கொற்றவை) based on comparative linguistics? I would appreciate any help from linguists!
I have a question regarding the etymology of Tamil படி (paṭi, “to read”) and Sanskrit पठ् (paṭh, “to read, recite, chant”).
My current understanding is that the mainstream view in Indian linguistics derives Tamil paṭi from Sanskrit *paṭh *(other variants of the word also exist). Despite the apparent lack of clear cognates outside Indian Indo-Aryan languages, *Paṭh is generally treated as native to Sanskrit/Indo-Aryan.
I initially believed the borrowing direction might have been from Dravidian into Indo-Aryan, but I later accepted the general consensus (from this same sub) favoring Sanskrit → Dravidian borrowing.
However, I recently thought about the Tamil words பாடு (pāṭ, “sing”) and பாட்டு (pāṭṭ, “song”), whose semantics (“sing,” “recite,” “chant”) seem closer to Sanskrit paṭh. As far as I know, pāṭṭ/pāṭ- also have cognates in other Dravidian languages.
So my question is:
If pāṭ- is inherited Dravidian, what are the arguments against a possible Dravidian connection for Sanskrit paṭh-? Has such a hypothesis been proposed or discussed in the literature?
I can only come up with 2 counter arguments for Dr > IA hypothesis; that is,
A purely anecdotal observation: when teaching a medieval Tamil Pā as rhymes to government primary-school students, I noticed some children unknowingly aspirating the plosives, especially the long-voweled ones that followed a pure consonant.
As an additional information, this is one of the Tamil Pā I was teaching them:
தத்தித்தா தூதுதி தாதூதித் தத்துதி
துத்தித் துதைதி துதைதத்தா தாதுதி
தித்தித்த தித்தித்த தாதெது தித்தித்த
தெத்தாதோ தித்தித்த தாது?
(Transliteration: tattittā tūtuti tātūtit tattuti
tuttit tutaiti tutaitattā tātuti
tittitta tittitta tātetu tittitta
tettātō tittitta tātu?)
Though I am not from Tamil Nadu, I found this news interesting and wan to share it with my brothers from Tamilakam.
Interesting development from Tamil Nadu epigraphy circles that surprisingly has not yet been discussed much online.
Researchers K. Balakrishnan and Mathur B. Pavendan claim to have deciphered the long-mysterious inscription at the “Sanyasi Pudavu” cave in the Courtallam hills of Tenkasi district. The inscription itself has reportedly been known for more than a century and had earlier attracted speculation ranging from “unknown script” to even “pre-Brahmi” possibilities.
What makes the current claim interesting is that the researchers are not arguing for a completely separate script tradition. Instead, they say the inscription represents an orthographic variant derived from Brahmi, modified to encode Tamil through altered sign forms and unconventional graphemic usage.
According to their reading, the inscription says:
“Um Neri Gnana Vaapi Elore Gajam Ka Eeru”
They interpret it roughly as:
“Your path is a reservoir of wisdom; the essence in the water bodies of all seven villages is one and the same.”
At the same time, there are still major unanswered questions. The decipherment does not yet appear to have gone through peer-reviewed epigraphic publication, and I could not find any public ASI validation or endorsement from major Tamil-Brahmi specialists so far. Publicly available technical material also still seems limited. I have not yet seen detailed estampages, sign-by-sign palaeographic comparison tables, or a rigorous phonetic justification released publicly.
So at the moment, this seems to be in an interesting middle stage: more serious than random media sensationalism, but not yet accepted mainstream epigraphy either.
References:
TNPSC current affairs PDF:
https://www.tnpscthervupettagam.com/assets/home/media/general/doc/26_May_07_-_English.pdf
I translated a Kannada podcast episode discussing the life and legacy of D.V. Gundappa, who lived most of his life and executed most of his numerous endeavors in Bengaluru (Basavanagudi area to be specific). I put some links and pictures in the article as well of the areas in Bengaluru that were mentioned. Hope you all enjoy!
The Jackson Commission Report is one that has received surprisingly little attention in historical studies of Sri Lanka’s Indian-origin population. I obtained this copy by securing special permission from the reference section of the Colombo Public Library, and have been drawing on it across several of my research articles.
The map and its details reveal something particularly worth noting. Among those who came to Sri Lanka between 1921 and 1935, more than 85 percent from southern Tamil Nadu districts such as Tirunelveli and Ramanathapuram did not come as estate workers. They were brought for various kinds of work outside the plantation areas. People from Andhra Pradesh region were bought for municipal sanitation and related services among them occupations that had been drawing people from these regions even before this period.
Of those brought from the Kerala regions of Malabar, Cochin, and Travancore, only 3 percent came for estate work. The great majority were brought for Colombo’s urban development port labour and city works above all. These details open up research questions that have barely been touched.
OOP:Saravanan Komathi Nadarasa
https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1KJukQTeUS/?mibextid=wwXIfr
Originally posted as a reply/comment on the post
https://www.reddit.com/r/IndianHistory/comments/1theoqf/the_pattanams_of_south_asia/
***
“Pattanam/Patnam/Pattana” most likely comes from a native Dravidian root, not from Sanskrit originally.
The base seems to be the Dravidian root pati / paṭi, meaning settlement, habitation, village, town, or place where people establish themselves. This is already recorded in the Dravidian Etymological Dictionary (DEDR 3911).
What makes the Dravidian origin especially convincing is the meaning of paṭṭinam in Tamil and Malayalam. It does not simply mean “town.” It specifically refers to a coastal urban settlement, a port-city, or a maritime trade centre. That meaning clearly developed inside the South Indian maritime world itself.
Names like Kaveripoompattinam, Nagapattinam, and Chennaipattinam preserve that older usage. These were major trade settlements connected to Indian Ocean commerce, not random inland towns.
The Sanskrit word paṭṭana probably came later as a borrowing from Dravidian. By the time it appears widely in Sanskritic usage, the word already seems culturally rooted in South Indian urban and port traditions.
So the likely development was:
Dravidian pati / paṭi -> paṭṭinam / paṭṭanam -> Sanskrit paṭṭana -> spread across South Asia.
I am curious about it's phonological structure as it's a part of middle tamizh language right
So whether it's phonology resembles tamizh or malayalam or distinct from it
And they called themselves Tamila or Tamizha or tamiLa (the ഴ ழ or ള ள ಳor ല ல ಲ)
In Malaysian Tamil the word for car is காடி(kāṭi/gāṭi).Where does this work come from ?
is there any extinct/dead dravidian langauges that arent spoken anymore at all???? i mean ones that were rumored to exist/had last speakers died in 1900's. dont mention old telugu, old tamil, old kannada, etc.
