I saw a woman on tik tok talking about how her friend dropped her for being male centered and another creator who said she received some man hating comments for talking about going on a date with her dream man. Not hating on either creators but I think it does represent a shift in the social climate regarding having a man & how it is now seen as embarrassing. I feel like the social and political climate surrounding having a man is changing & being male centered is not as normalized or socially acceptable anymore. At times it feels like we’re having two different conversations and living in two different worlds. Some of us are living in a reality where men are killing us, women’s rights are being stripped away, a family annihilation happens every 5 days, and men are in group chats teaching each other how to grape their wives, daughters, and sisters. And others of us are living in some fairy tale world where they will be the special chosen one who will be exempt from the fate that so many others have been dealt. Some women don’t want to admit that they want a hierarchy where they are placed above others for having a man because personally even if I found a man that met my criteria I would still feel the same way about men. The only reason women go out of their way to defend men or call others man hating is because they want to believe they are special. A lot of women are trying to resist what is supposed to happen, we were never supposed to be so male centered & obsessed with marriage. So many of us have died at the hands of these relationships, and for what? The illusion of love? I think a shift in how we view relationships is necessary for womankind.

After hearing from so many members that they appreciated hearing the positives of what 4B has done for other sisters, we see having a consistent place to post positive improvements and reminders would benefit the sub. So, without further ado-

In the last week:

Tell us about positive interactions or building relationships with other women. How did you support and uplift other women? How have other women helped and supported you?

What accomplishments have you made? What goals have you set for yourself? What goals have you achieved?

What small changes have you noticed since adopting the lifestyle? What big changes?

Share anything and everything positive here.

obv men are still the main danger to women. men are the head of the snake. i'm just thinking about how more women decentering them would make us much safer bc of the evil things it leads to and the advantages men get out of it, including a particular kidnapping of a girl I just learned about.

As a true crime follower I'm constantly reminded of how dangerous extremely male centered women have the potential to be. The women who will stop at nothing to keep her man, i'm not talking about women who just want to be a house wife and have kids.

I have personal experience with this on some level & we probably all do. I remember vividly when I was 6 and I met my mom's boyfriend for the first time, and I was superrr shy as a kid so she thought i came off as unfriendly to him by not being talkative. When we got home she strangled me with a pillow in my bed while screaming at me. I was harassed online by a couple girls because of the guy I was with and it made me super anxious and self conscious for years. He treated me awfully, but obviously that made him feel like The Prize being chased by them so hard, and me getting upset over it. (I would never deal with that now.) I fucking hate that men are so worshipped that they can still hurt us without even hurting us cause women will do it for them. This is a big reason why I wish the 4B mentality was held by the majority of women. Men would feel MUCH less powerful and wouldn't be able to use us to put eachother down or hurt each other, which benefits them.

Obviously male centered women's threat varies significantly and manifests in so many ways. Bullying other women, harrassment, chasing taken men, stalking, crazy "boy mom" mentality, women blaming other women when their man cheats, sabotaging relationships out of envy, moms neglecting their kids for a man/letting new men in the house around their children, not believing their child about being SA'd by a man she's close to, defending men's atrocities, voting for men who hate women, dating men who are known abusers.

Then there are rarer cases where they will inflict serious and fatal harm and they come up often when I listen to true crime podcasts/videos. They'd rarely commit heinous crimes like SA, torture, trafficking etc towards other women without a man leading it. Because it's not for them, its a sacrifice they make for the fucked up man's approval, attention, praise, favoritism, whatever.

Anyway that leads me to this documentary I just watched called "The Girl in the Box". It reminded me of the extremes they'll go to for men and it's hard to comprehend. It's about a girl who was abducted for 7 yrs and went through Hell, and she thankfully lived to tell her story. it's one of the worst cases i've ever heard of. I feel it's an extreme (but good) example of the title of my post. i'll link a few similar stories of male centralization that most ppl will recognize.

Colleen Stan - the 7 year rape, extreme torture, and kidnapping victim of Cameron Hooker and his wife Janice Hooker. I couldn't find a deep dive into Janice alone which is upsetting because she was heavily involved and never went to prison. She was granted full immunity in exchange for all the info.

This is a less popular case and idk why. I can't even begin to explain how bad it is and it's hard to even think about even though i've heard plenty of true crime stories, so research at your own risk. I highly suggest watching the documentary "The Girl In the Box", because it's a firsthand interview of Colleen herself. There are a LOT of rly bad details that aren't in it tho.

It disgusted me that most of this case wouldn't have been possible without Janice, in fact I don't think Colleen would've even fell for Cameron's trap to abduct her in the first place if it weren't for Janice being her husband's accomplice. Colleen was hitch hiking and was cautious about who she got in a car with and denied solo or groups of men who stopped for her. She stated the only reason she felt comfortable enough to get in his car was because his young wife Janice and their baby were in the car with him. Janice knew the role she was supposed to play that day, she wasn't naive to his plans. She set out to help him find a torture victim and personal slave. She played in a creek with her baby while her husband put a wooden torture box over her head and drove to their house. Cameron was a sexual sadist and Janice agreed to help him abduct a girl to take it out on so she didn't have to deal with him pressuring her to do things. Her only condition was that he couldn't penetrate Colleen. That ended up happening and she flipped out and took it out on her, not him of course.

Janice Hooker, the sick wife, ended up being the reason Colleen escaped but it was purely for selfish reasons. She just got jealous and tired of her husband having her around and planning a divorce. She still pressured Colleen to not turn him in though so he could "have a chance to get better."

the Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka case still sends chills down my spine. Paul Bernardo was a pedo rapist and his wife Karla knew this. Knowing she wasn't enough to satisfy him, she sacrificed Tammy Homolka, her own teenage virgin sister for him, and it accidentally ended in her death. Karla filmed it. This led to a long string of similar incidents that wouldn't have been possible without her help.

Rose West, wife of Fred West, was heavily involved in her husband's 10 murders and tortures. Another classic case from the 70s.

Oh and Chris Watts who's one of the sickest dudes ever, he killed his wife/daughters and he still has a soon to be WIFE in prison. These prison wives are so common & need to be in prison with them imo. He also had a mistress which was his main motivation for the crimes and I think she was involved but there's no proof.

My misogynistic cousin (F46, married with three kids) called me insane and delusional yesterday for not wanting to get married. At first, she started bitching about her husband and how he does not let her go to the gym because "gym is for those who are for the streets". This pos told her that his biggest wish in the whole world is for her to stop working and become a housewife.

I (F27, 4b) became visibly destraught because what the fuck? That is such a demented thing to say. I warned her to NEVER leave her job because he might end up financially abusing her down the line (He is one of those religious fanatics who think women are property).

That was apparently the wrong thing to say because she started defending him somehow?? Telling me how women are created to "take" (disgusting statement that made me shudder) and that we should stay at home and get pampered. That if she had a chance, she would stay at home forever.

I kept trying to explain to her how brainwashed women are and how patriarchy permeates every aspect of our lives. I stated that I will never get married because I do not like the idea of sharing myself with someone else, let alone a man (I have deeper reasons that I would rather not divulge to misogynists, I am pretty sure many can relate).

She then called me "sick in the head" and "delusional" because women are satisfied with their lives and very few men are that bad. That I should get married because running away is for cowards which I clearly resemble and relate to. That celebacy is a copout.

I did expect her to say something of that sort because ever since I was a child, she was the person who liked tormenting me the most in my family, either by calling me a cow if I gained weight, or by telling me not to wear glasses (even though I needed them) because they would "ruin" my eyes. She groped my chest when I was teen and said something along the lines of "oh she is getting ripe". She liked bringing up, umprompted, topics related to periods, femininity, bras and underwear to make me uncomfortable as a teen. She often called me mentally ill, autistic, socially inept...

Ah, and her sister called 4b women "traumatized beyond repair".

I know I should not take it to heart but I am getting so annoyed of being told what to do. I want to live alone, I do not want a husband or kids, I just want peace of mind and personal space. How and why is that so wrong and so controversial? I am livid and hurt.

Do any of you have someone in your family who treats you in a similar way? How do you deal with them? Does it ever stop bothering you?

I apologize for the rant, no one in my circle shares similar perspectives. This sub is my safe space, thank you mods.

Edit: I might take some time to read and respond to all the comments, I just want to clarify that I did cut her off years ago, but she is allowed to visit us because my mother worships the ground she walks on, she did raise her after all. Thank you to everyone who took the time to comment.

Has anyone noticed an increase of AI slop memes and troll accounts on FB and other platforms making light of the EP situation? Women and girls truly have very little idea of how much they are hated.

I'm very tired of being gaslit with the "It's just the Internet deal with it" when this is very real.

The evil being committed against women and children is very real and is being overlooked as "jokes," and people are being desensitised to it via the "joke" thing.

I accidentally came across some disgusting subs dismissing the 4B movement and making gross assumptions about it when i was searching for this one.

I will never understand why women's survival and avoidance of patriarchical abuse is farmed as "evil" or irrational and why they are expected to sacrifice their entire bodies to create a world that hates them. Doesn't make sense at all.

I will never understand why people hate women who avoid males more than males who hate and hurt women with impunity.

I truly wish that more women would wake up and go 4B all around the world. Especially in countries within South Asia where female infanticides and femicides are the norm to this day and age.

This was a film I wanted to see when it originally hit cinemas in 2022, but it wasn't showing anywhere nearby. Four years after its initial release, I got to see it on TV tonight, and I'm so glad I did. It had a few different themes in, and I found all of them relevant and thought-provoking. I wasn't familiar with any of the actors, but they all knocked it out of the park for me. The initial premise of the film is following a group of historical warrior women called the Agojie in The Kingdom of Dahomey. We see young girls trained to become fierce fighters, slavery, colonisation, temptations, defiance, secrets, and trauma. But the one thing most characters have in common is strength. I feel so proud of those women for all that they achieved and endured. It makes for a genuinely empowering watch, perhaps in part for the catharsis it provided.

Please share your thoughts and experiences with this film or any other women focused media you have seen recently. We need more ferocious films like this.

FEMs and SAMs sit at the volatile intersection of modern gender theory, materialist feminism, and online sociopolitical commentary. These terms describe extremist sex-abolitionist or identity-first frameworks that reinscribe misogyny under the banner of "progressivism."

FEMs (Female-Exclusionary Misogynists) describe perspectives that, in an effort to detach gender identity from biology entirely, minimize or invalidate female biological reality from the definition of womanhood, effectively erasing sex-based social analysis.

SAMs (Sex-Abolitionist Misogynists) refers to positions advocating for the total dissolution of sex categories in favor of gender-only identity, which ignores how patriarchy specifically targets and exploits biological female capacity (reproductive labor, femicide, female infanticide, etc.) and the lived womanhood of many women.

The challenge of dismantling rigid gender norms without erasing the material, sex-based realities that drive systemic oppression is live and real. And I have seen it fall into the latter category more and more.

We scream "intersectionality" and rightly include all forms of womanhood, gender identities included. But what happens in turn? The single most historically oppressed demographic is now denied even validity. Female identity is labeled invalid, vapid, shallow, and dangerous to others. That without capitulation to one's identity being centered on gender, on the socially constructed roles, behaviors, expressions, and identities of women, your identity in womanhood is somehow more shallow and more patriarchal.

Let's break that down real fast. There is a belief that if a female does not ascribe to the socially constructed roles, behaviors, and expressions of "womanhood," she is supporting patriarchy. I'm sorry, but have we all lost our god damn minds? That is so patriarchal and SO MISOGYNISTIC AND SEXIST that it boggles the mind. And somehow it gets inverted into progressivism.

I never believed in "so far left you go right" until now.

Radical gender constructivism demands adherence to gendered performance for social validation, reinventing the very patriarchal logic feminism originally aimed to dismantle. It is the reemergence of gender essentialism. When "womanhood" is detached entirely from material reality and anchored solely in socially constructed roles, expressions, or internal feelings, it makes patriarchal gender stereotypes the baseline for legitimacy. The irony is stark: in trying to dismantle biological reductionism, hyper-constructivist frameworks often substitute it with performance reductionism. Under this framework, a female who rejects traditional feminine socialization or expression is framed not as a valid woman, but as a fundamentally flawed and empty one.

Materialist feminism focuses on how systems of power exploit physical realities, reproductive labor, maternal mortality, sex-selective abortion, sex-based violence, etc. Completely removing "female" as a distinct material category creates a severe structural blind spot. You cannot analyze or critique a system built on controlling females (patriarchy) if naming that biological reality is treated as inherently exclusionary or politically suspect.

Expanding inclusion for gender identity does not have to come at the cost of erasing the material, sex-based analysis required to dismantle misogyny.

The phrase "you are not your uterus" demonstrates a complete inversion: what began as a feminist defense against patriarchal objectification mutated into a tool for alienating women from their own material reality, identity, and choice. When that statement is turned against a woman who consciously chooses to ground her womanhood in her biological sex, the core feminist promise of self-determination gets inverted. What was designed as a shield against reproductive coercion becomes a weapon of ideological compliance to normative gender roles.

Feminism was built to expand a woman's choices, not narrow them. If liberation meant escaping the mandate that a female must be defined by her reproductive organs, it also meant protecting her right to decide how she relates to her own body. Telling a woman that her conscious, educated choice to center her female biological reality is "shallow" or "patriarchal" replaces old patriarchal rules with a new set of demands.

This dynamic creates a rigid ideological boundary. To be politically validated, a female is expected to treat her biological sex as irrelevant, unmentionable, or secondary. If she instead finds solidarity, meaning, or political relevance in her female body, her agency is dismissed as "internalized misogyny." It asserts that third parties know better than the woman herself what her relationship to her own body should be, a classic hallmark of patriarchal control disguised as enlightened discourse.

True bodily autonomy includes the right to embrace one's physical reality without needing permission or approval. When progressivism demands that women disavow their biological sex to qualify as liberated, it stops offering freedom from rigid norms and starts enforcing a new standard of female self-effacement.

Swapping forced subordination for forced disembodiment is not liberation. It simply changes who gets to tell women how they are allowed to feel about their own bodies.

FEMs and SAMs are an exclusionary danger to feminism.

To the FEMs and SAMs: as an infertile woman, I am my womb and my womb is me, and my identity does not exclude yours. Don't exclude mine.

60% of rapes are committed by someone known to the victim.

31% are committed by strangers; 28.3% are committed by well-known or casual acquaintances; 21.4% are committed by intimate partners; 13.1% are committed by other relatives; 3.7% are committed by an unknown number of perpetrators; 2.5% are committed by someone with an unknown relationship to the victim.

The majority of rapes are committed by someone a woman knows or may even trust. Rape by an intimate partner is not uncommon.

I'm a very safety conscious woman, and I remember having this distinct thought as an elementary schooler, that I better not date a boy, just in case we become close and hang out at each other's houses. And being possibly raped in my sleep by a boy was one of fears. This was years before I came out as a lesbian. 4b, I think can, be a very smart and safe choice for any woman. 4b can make it easier to control the trajectory of one's own life.

Link:

https://rainn.org/facts-statistics-the-scope-of-the-problem/statistics-perpetrators-of-sexual-violence/

After hearing from so many members that they appreciated hearing the positives of what 4B has done for other sisters, we see having a consistent place to post positive improvements and reminders would benefit the sub. So, without further ado-

In the last week:

Tell us about positive interactions or building relationships with other women. How did you support and uplift other women? How have other women helped and supported you?

What accomplishments have you made? What goals have you set for yourself? What goals have you achieved?

What small changes have you noticed since adopting the lifestyle? What big changes?

Share anything and everything positive here.

Hello, I am looking for books on self-love for women, specifically approved by members of this community. I am on a self-love journey with therapy and would love to read some relating literature. Thank you!🌸