r/Arvanites

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

Going forward moderation of the subreddit will be MUCH stricter. There will be ZERO tolerance for Albanian nationalism, cultural or historical appropriation and disinformation. There will also be ZERO tolerance of posts and comments in Albanian.

Some things that will get you banned are comments like:

"Epirus was Albanian"❌

"Arvanites descend from Albanians"❌

"Arvanites are Albanians"❌

"Arvanitica is Albanian"❌

"Greece has Albanian lands"❌

What you CAN say is:

"Arvanites and Albanians come from the same group"✅

"Arvanitica and Albanian have a common root"✅

So be VERY mindful of what you post.

u/Porphyres — 1 day ago

The Arvanites of Italy ("Arbëreshë") do not physically resemble Albanians at all, causing physical anthropologists to believe that they are simply an "Albanized" population group.

u/No_Idea_479 — 1 day ago

Venetian official Mark Barbarigos in 1481: "The Arvanites and the Greeks compose one ethnicity"

u/No_Idea_479 — 1 day ago

Thomas Buas, Mercurios Buas and their perceived ancestors.

What is a "perceived ancestor"? This is a term I have translated from Greek (νοητός πρόγονος), it means the ancestors which someone THINKS he has, and the ancestors someone sees his CURRENT identity into. When it comes to "perceived ancestors", the objective reality doesn't matter as they factor in only when national consciousness (a social construct defined by sense of belonging) comes into play.

Who were Mercurios and Thomas Buas? They were Arvanites from Argolis. With ties to the power families of Angeloi and Spatha. Their ancestors ruled Aetolia until Karolos Tokos took it.

Tzanes Koroneos writes: "And Karolos ruled Angelokastron, and took what wasn't his. And 2 nephews, Buas of lord Mouriki, hid and run away. [They went to Constantinople] then the king welcomed them and said they should not be afraid (of Karolos) anymore and sent them in the Moreas to rule.[...]"

Mercurios Buas:

Mercurios Buas was born in Nauplio in 1478. At 11 years old he had to leave the Peloponnese with his father and some other rebels. It was at that point he changed his name from Maurikios to Mercurios. From then on he went to become a general of the Holy Roman Empire.

Kostas Krystallis writes: "He fought with no end as the head of his Hellenic combrades in the plains and the mountains of Europe.[...] Always giving victory to the lord that hosted them and glory to his Hellenic heritage."

He was a founding member of the Hellenic brotherhood of Venice.

Thomas Buas:

Around 1514 king Henry of England hired some Greek Arvanites "Stradioti" in his army. Nicander Nucius from Corfu follows a division lead by Thomas of Argos(Buas), Antinios Stisinos and Theodoros Louchisis.

During the siege of Boulogne, Thomas and Nicander find themselves face to face with 1000 French cavalry, with only 500 soldier of their own.

At this moment, Nicander writes, Thomas turned to his soldiers and said: "Comrades, as you understand we have found ourselves in a place far away, serving a monarch of the far north. We have nothing of our country except our bravery and courage and the courage we will use to fight the enemy, because their numbers are not enough for our own virtue. We are children of Hellenes and we have nothing to fear of this barbarian horde, all we have to do is fight bravely and win, proving through our actions the ancient military might of the Hellenes."

Sources:

Konstantinos Sathas: HELLENICA ANEKDOTA

Kostas Krystallis: APANTA

Tzane Koroneos: MERCURIO ANDRAGATHEMATA

Nicholas Pappas: STRADIOTI BALKAN MERCENARIES IN THE 15TH AND 16TH CENTURY ITALY

u/Porphyres — 1 day ago

I thought in between the Arvanite father and Arcadian mother I would have some Albanian.

u/Porphyres — 1 day ago

Anastas Kullurioti

"Αλβανικόν αλφαβητάριον κατά το εν Ελλάδι ομιλούμενον αλβανικόν ιδίωμα :Εκκαθαρισθέν και επιδιορθωθέν βοήθημα των γονέων και εγχειρίδιον των αλβανικών τέκνων ... Εν Αθήναις :Εκ του Τυπογραφείου ""Η Φωνή της Αλβανίας"", 1882."

u/Leading_Cow573 — 1 day ago

Panayotis Koupitoris

"Eκ των παρατεθειμένων συμπεραίνεται νομίζω ότι η ιλλυρική γλώσσα ην ουχί αλλότρια της ελληνικής, αλλά διάλεκτος αυτής απωτέρα των άλλων και οι Ιλλυριοί ελληνικόν φύλον."

u/Leading_Cow573 — 1 day ago

Identified Albanian settlements in the Peloponnese, according to the Ottoman taxation cadastre of 1460–1463. 407 are listed as Albanian, 169 as Greek, and four as mixed,what do Arvanites think about this??

Identified Albanian settlements in the Peloponnese, according to the Ottoman taxation cadastre of 1460–1463. Many of these settlements have since been abandoned, while others have been renamed.[36] Out of the 580 inhabited villages, 407 are listed as Albanian, 169 as Greek, and four as mixed; the average number of families residing in Albanian villages was 3.5 times smaller than that of the Greek ones.[37]

Source:Liakopoulos, Georgios C. (2019). The Early Ottoman Peloponnese: a study in the light of an annotated edition princeps of the TT10-1/14662 Ottoman taxation cadastre (ca. 1460–1463). Gingko.

u/ThickCaterpillar9867 — 2 days ago

Do you think there are some internal enemies among you?

In WW2, some Vlachs fought Greeks as internal enemies. Do you think there are such Arvanites?

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u/Fun-Block4675 — 3 days ago

Medieval Greek loanwords in Arvanitica.

Arvanitica has a number of medieval loanwords that have fallen out of use in Modern Greek.

Arvanitica Gomar = Donkey, from medieval Greek "γομάριον/gomarion" with the meaning of something that carries things.

Kusar = Thief from medieval Greek "κουρσάρος/koursaros" meaning pirate.

Koro = The acting of cutting or avoiding something, from some Greek archaism of the ancient verb "κειρώ/keiro" (to cut, to remove, to abstaint) some examples in Arvanitica: Koros=barber, Koropis=he who abstains from alcohol, Koroves = an animal feeder with no handles (called ears=ves).

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u/Porphyres — 4 days ago

Was Irene Pappas Albanian?

When Irene passed away, I was surprised to learn that Albania was mourning the death of an Albanian actress at the same time as us. Until I learned that the actress was Irene Pappas.... So what was the nationality of Irene Pappas and what was the evidence of her being Albanian? There are 3 reasons she is considered Albanian by some. I will try to present them fairly and debunk them.

Argument 1) "Her real surname (Lelekou) is Albanian" The surname "Lelekas/Leleku" comes from the Turkish word "leylek" meaning "stork". Its not a uniquely Albanian name. "Lelekas" exists in Greek as a loanword for "tall".

Argument 2) "She was an arvanite" while the reasons why the term "Arvanite" and "Albanian" are not interchangeable has been explained already I need to mention that there is no strong evidence of her being of Arvanitic roots. Her 2 villages of origin (Chiliomodi and Preveza) are not historically Arvanitic. Not that I completely reject the possibility of Arvanitic roots from the villages neighboring Chiliomodi

Argument 3) "She said she was Albanian in an interview." While this argument is strong. It contradicts live action footage of Irene declaring not only her Greek nationality but also her descent from Ancient Greeks. In the below 1995 interview the question of Greek contributions to European culture comes up. For which Irene had this to say "They (the Europeans) need to understand that we are a preserved people that lives in the same place and speaks the same language with few differences since ancient times."

u/Porphyres — 5 days ago
▲ 33 r/Arvanites+1 crossposts

Arvanite saying

Na gluhasim greqisht, po në shpi klajmë shqip.

Μιλάμε ελληνικά, αλλά στο σπίτι κλαίμε αλβανικά.

We speak greek, but at home we cry in albanian.

reddit.com
u/AfterSwordfish6342 — 9 days ago
▲ 11 r/Arvanites+1 crossposts

An etymological analysis of Arvanitic mountain names in Greece part 1: Sterea Hellas.

Bardusia (Korakas): From Arvanitic "Bardushi" meaning white, put together with Greek "-ia" a suffix for toponyms.

Gkiona: From the Arvanitic version of John "Gjon", the word is also borrowed in Greek as the name of a small owl (Scops) because the sound it makes sounds like "Gjon". Meaning "the mountain of small owls".

Birbilio: From Arvanitic "Birbili" meaning "swallow". "Meaning the mountain of swallows".

Liakoura(Parnassus): From Arvanitic "Liakur" meaning "naked" or "with no vegetation".

Loutsa: From Arvanitic "Lutza" meaning "wet".

Liofateza: Is hypothesised to be Arvanitic in origin but the etymology is unclear.

Guras(Othrys): From Arvanitic "Gura" meaning "stone".

Names will be added as I find them and corrections will be made.

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u/Porphyres — 9 days ago

What do you think is the best way to learn arvanitika today as an arvanite

I want to learn my ancestral language the thought of speaking to Albanians scares me (joke) . What do you recommend, is there any place I can learn? I’ve thought maybe I can learn the tosk albanian nd then slowly evolve it to arvanitika, is this a good idea? Also I’ve thought of getting Albanian wife but that’s a story for another day.

This is out of topic but to Albanians who want to preserve this historic Albanian dialect in greece you shouldn’t insult ppl by calling them Albanians (spreading nationalism to arvanites deters us from learning or spreading arvanitika)

And to Greek nationalist arvanites stop doing the same thing in reverse because the people who can help preserving your language will be also deterred from helping

We should all cooperate and such because rare languages going extinct is bad, for example there should also be preservation of griko and Pontic Greek languages who have very few ppl left speaking them

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u/Stamaths7 — 9 days ago