r/BattleboardNinjago

Core Theme

Two former leaders who carry the burden of losing someone they deeply cared about. Despite being among the most serious members of their teams, they are genuinely kind-hearted individuals who constantly shoulder responsibilities that few others can understand.

Connections

Both were the leaders of their teams before the arrival of the "chosen" hero who eventually took their place. (Cole led the Ninja before Lloyd became the Green Ninja, while Ultra Magnus became the Autobots' leader after Optimus Prime's death and even inherited the Matrix of Leadership before it was revealed that Hot Rod was the true chosen one.)

Both are among the physically strongest members of their respective teams and possess abilities that make them some of their world's greatest warriors. (Cole is the physically strongest Ninja and wields the Elemental Power of Earth, while Ultra Magnus is one of the Autobots' mightiest soldiers, equipped with immense strength and an arsenal of powerful weapons.)

Both lost someone incredibly important to them, leaving them with the responsibility of protecting everyone else. (Cole lost his mother, Lilly, while Ultra Magnus lost his closest comrade, Optimus Prime.)

Those losses left them carrying emotional burdens that deeply affected them. (Cole's relationship with his father Lou became strained after Lilly's death, while Ultra Magnus constantly doubted whether he was worthy of leading the Autobots after Optimus' sacrifice.)

Both are among the oldest and most experienced members of their teams. (Cole is the oldest Ninja, while Ultra Magnus is one of the Autobots' oldest veterans.)

Both specialize in wielding massive weapons, particularly hammers. (Cole uses heavy weapons such as hammers and his iconic Scythe of Quakes, while Ultra Magnus notably wields the Magnus Hammer in Transformers Animated.)

Both are viewed as the serious members of their groups, but beneath that stern exterior lies someone burdened by responsibilities no one else truly understands. (Cole fears losing his family again and constantly worries about his teammates, while Ultra Magnus strives to live up to Optimus Prime's legacy, as seen in G1 and the Skybound comics.)

Both experience moments where they fail to use an important power. (Cole initially fails to perform the Spinjitzu Burst, while Ultra Magnus is unable to activate the Matrix of Leadership in Transformers: The Movie 1986)

Instead of giving up after these failures, both continue fighting until they overcome their setbacks. (Cole eventually masters Spinjitzu Burst and defeats the Skull Sorcerer, while Ultra Magnus continues fighting for the Autobots even after Hot Rod becomes the Matrix's chosen bearer.)

Both are members of heroic teams dedicated to protecting their worlds. (The Ninja and the Autobots.)

Despite their serious personalities, both have incredibly compassionate hearts that are most visible around the people they trust. (Cole with the Ninja—especially Jay—and Ultra Magnus with Daniel Witwicky and his fellow Autobots.)

Both often clash with more reckless teammates because of their disciplined personalities. (Cole with Kai, and Ultra Magnus with Smokescreen in Transformers Prime.)

Both were trained by wise mentors. (Cole was trained by Master Wu, while Ultra Magnus was trained by Alpha Trion in Netflix's War for Cybertron Trilogy.)

Both eventually become mentors themselves. (Cole trains Frak in Ninjago: Dragons Rising, while Ultra Magnus mentors Smokescreen in Transformers Prime.)

Both originate from franchises whose primary purpose was to promote toy lines produced by massive companies. (Ninjago by LEGO and Transformers by Hasbro.)

Both are often considered overlooked and underappreciated by their fanbases. (Many fans believe Cole has been sidelined in Dragons Rising, while many Transformers fans believe Ultra Magnus deserved the title of Prime more than Hot Rod.)

Both share an incredibly close relationship with an older legendary warrior who became one of the most important figures in their lives. (Master Wu became a father figure to Cole following his family troubles, while Optimus Prime was essentially an older brother to Ultra Magnus.)

Animation Potential

This would work perfectly as a 3D fight, using Cole's Fortnite model alongside a Transformers model for Ultra Magnus.

The fight could feature:

Ultra Magnus constantly switching between heavy artillery, missiles, blasters, and his Magnus Hammer.

Cole countering with Earth Spinjitzu, Earth constructs, and powerful melee attacks using his hammer and the Scythe of Quakes.

Interaction Potential

Cole would likely be fascinated by fighting a giant alien robot, while Ultra Magnus would initially dismiss Cole as an inexperienced child. As the battle progresses and Cole repeatedly proves his skill, Magnus would gradually earn a great deal of respect for him.

Debate

The matchup's outcome largely depends on how you scale Ninjago.

If you buy Universal-level Ninjago scaling, Cole wins decisively thanks to his overwhelming AP

If you don't, the fight becomes much closer. Ultra Magnus generally has the advantage in speed scaling and possesses superior ranged weaponry

(Yes, the fast ninja has better AP and the giant robot has better speed. Don't ask how.)

original connections

not trying to be the best matchup for both, but I found the idea interesting and tried to give it some new connections

I’ve seen a few “Tommy should scale to Drakkon with Heart of Master”. While that’s definitely valid, I wanted to discuss the more legitimate arguments I could think of and see if they hold any validity.

1. In the Ninja Steel crossover, Madam Odious fairly easily enchants normal arrows to give them the power to collapse the boundaries between the infinite dimensions to allow Lord Draven to march his armies into every dimension. This doesn’t seem to be purely Hax, as the Mega Arrows do this by tearing open massive rifts in reality, and can be used to directly harm the enemy. Despite this, the Ninja Steel rangers have no issues defeating her in combat.

2. In Dino Fury, the revived Lord Zedd is able to match the power of a Morphin Master in 1-1 comics, Masters being the source of Drakkon’s “destroy infinite dimensions with a wave of his hand” feat. While this is a robot duplicate, it’s supposed to be fairly 1-1 and would upscale the other rangers since every other ranger team is largely stronger than MMPR

3. Zords in Shattered Grid were able to stagger Drakkon with their attacks. While his powers were unstable, he still had enough power to maintain the unstable world that he made, so he wasn’t too much weaker. He was also able to defeat the Emissaries Three even before absorbing the Heart of the Master, who would have been fine if the multiverse was destroyed and have a higher dimensional perspective.

The explanation for why the FSM lost to wojira is that he was a kid

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But what is your explanation for him losing to an army

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Especially when the four Ninjas powers was able to destroy them

I was gonna save this for later because I plan on making a more complete Ninjago scaling post, but I see this enough that I feel the need to address it in its own post.

No, random kids did not tank the merge, at least not in the same way that the ninja did. Dragon's Rising explicitly explains that the cause of the Merge was the realms colliding together, creating a patchwork and numerous places where space and time are fused causing distortions. But the fusion itself is the secondary effect of the initial event - namely, all realms colliding together. It is generally accepted that the collision of multiple dimensions is multiversal for one reason or another

Even if it wasn't a multiversal feat, we ignore the visual and verbal information of the realms crashing into one another, and just a, say, city level feat for the explosion itself the framing that "oh yeah kids tanked it" - borders on disingenuous. We see a distinct epicenter where the event happens and the force is concentrated, the ninja get sucked into it, and then a shockwave that propagates outwards - a shockwave that, mind you, we don't see directly hit anyone, and causes fusion as it passes.

And then, even in the lowest possible interpretation where you ignore all this and say "the kids tanked it anyway" as an argument against taking the feat at face value... that's equally incoherent because they wouldn't survive the massive explosion if it was, say, city block level if they were normal kids taking its full force - so either we're forced to conclude that gasp a cartoon like Ninjago has cartoonish physics and character stats, or that the fact they weren't at the epicenter means dilution and that they don't take the full force anyway.

Yes, don't get me wrong, if this wasn't DB this would probably be an outlier, and you could argue it's beyond their narrative portrayal. Heck, you could argue some of them didn't fully tank it because it knocked them out for a bit. But the framing that "oh yeah random kids tanked this shit" is just straight nonsensical to anyone debating the matter in any amount of good faith.

TLDR: No, "random kids" did not tank the Merge in Ninjago, and even at the lowest possible interpretation and granting the arguments all their points, the conclusion is incoherent and self defeating